my second attempt follows your suggestion of not dropping mantis rider and has the non-fetches manabase (which is not painless but has a lot of card draw), what do you think?
i think a better sideboard plan and access to the best removal spell in modern shouldn't be underestimated. Also CoCo, despite your bad experience with it, is a hell of a card.
i would trade a bit of life for a shell that runs out of gas less often, i don't know if collected company is the way (it seems better than militia bugler, at least), i wonder if the cycle lands will be enough (by the way, i would gladly run 8 of them).
aether vial+collected company is a nonbo that has reasons to exist especially in spirits, maybe it could work in humans too (even though there aren't as many interactions on the stack). in case, this bant build could also run only CoCo without vial.
I know there are pros and cons, i'm talking about a different build (a bit off the path now, but if you remember the bant list was more prominent when humans first came out)
i wonder if we can build humans in bant colors only: the losses of freebooter and mantis rider are so bad that not even access to collected company, path to exile and better sideboard can equal?
btw, i think any copy of rest in peace is much better than surgical extraction or lavinia, but i can understand why you don't want to play too many enchantments
Hi guys, just wanted to let you know i will be trying an UWg shell with cocos in the sideboard and unsettled mariner in the msinboard. Ill let you know if it works out
i'm shocked at those statistics: i always felt spirits was favored at least against affinity, having a lot of fliers. how it is possible that spirits (bant, i suppose) had a winrate of about 20%?
BTW, in the current meta it might be interesting to switch stony silence with hurkyl's recall, which has the bonus of not hitting aether vials.
For Tron, stony silence is also very useful against their single best card in walking ballista, but lists are moving away from it, so the loss of stony silence might be tolerable.
horizon canopy instead of mutavault: the main testing point, so far i'm impressed with the card-drawing land more than mutavault, but i'm ready to switch gears. another configuration i was thinking about is:
deputy of detention another testing slot, i chose her over thalia because i wanted a mainboard answer to all kind of permanents, and because thalia doesn't synergize with lingering souls. another option would be nebelgast herald
the second list is slower but much more consistent and in my testing it felt better at grinding games, despite not having the explosiveness of the temur version.
The thing i didn't test was surgical extraction, but i guess it's better, in the current meta, than my 4x relic of progenitus.
how did tithe taker perform? did it contribute positively to your record?
Also, i'm going to experiment with a list that - heresy!- lacks noble hierarch, but in bant colors. Small splash for coco, it should play like UW does-.
since i just swapped noble hierarchs for rattlechains, i'll be watching closely if any hand could have developed better with the mana dork
the only way to prevent them from having extra etb triggers is by using path to exile. Both reflector mage and deputy of detention are not permanent solutions (even though they are permanents, and solutions ;))
Another card that struck my interest from the new set is Sky Tether, which in our build is a 1 mana pacifism and could be very interesting as removal choice in the more tempo-oriented builds like UW.
4 champion of the parish
4 meddling mage
4 kitesail freebooter
4 thalia's lieutenant
4 phantasmal image
4 mantis rider
4 reflector mage
3 collected company
4 cavern of souls
4 unclaimed territory
2 blooming marsh
1 botanical sanctum
2 razorverge thicket
4 horizon canopy
4 waterlogged grove
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
3 knight of autumn
2 collector ouphe
3 damping sphere
2 kambal, consul of allocation
2 auriok champion
i would trade a bit of life for a shell that runs out of gas less often, i don't know if collected company is the way (it seems better than militia bugler, at least), i wonder if the cycle lands will be enough (by the way, i would gladly run 8 of them).
aether vial+collected company is a nonbo that has reasons to exist especially in spirits, maybe it could work in humans too (even though there aren't as many interactions on the stack). in case, this bant build could also run only CoCo without vial.
I know there are pros and cons, i'm talking about a different build (a bit off the path now, but if you remember the bant list was more prominent when humans first came out)
4 champion of the parish
4 meddling mage
4 kitesail freeboter
4 thalia's lieutenant
4 phantasmal image
4 mantis rider
4 reflector mage
3 collected company
4 cavern of souls
4 unclaimed territory
2 blooming marsh
1 botanical sanctum
2 razorverge thicket
4 horizon canopy
4 waterlogged grove
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
3 knight of autumn
2 collector ouphe
3 damping sphere
2 kambal, consul of allocation
2 auriok champion
I'm looking at a list like this:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Meddling Mage
4 Unsettled Mariner
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Reflector Mage
1 Eternal Witness
4 Collected Company
3 Path to Exile
3 Aether Vial
3 Waterlogged Grove
4 cavern of souls
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Collector Ouphe
3 Knight of Autumn
3 Rest in Peace
3 Damping Sphere
btw, we could make a splash for a color, but i personally like the manabase
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 selfless spirit
4 supreme phantom
2 remorseful cleric
4 drogskol captain
4 spell queller
2 deputy of detention
1 kira, great glass-spinner
3 aether vial
3 path to exile
4 collected company
4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 temple garden
1 breeding pool
1 hallowed fountain
2 island
1 plains
1 forest
3 waterlogged grove
1 horizon canopy
1 seachrome coast
3 rest in peace
2 collector ouphe
3 unified will
1 eidolon of rhetoric
1 thalia, guardian of thraben
3 damping sphere
2 knight of autumn
btw, i think any copy of rest in peace is much better than surgical extraction or lavinia, but i can understand why you don't want to play too many enchantments
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 supreme phantom
4 selfless spirit
4 rattlechains
4 unsettled mariner
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
3 deputy of detention
Spells (8)
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
2 cavern of souls
4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
2 island
1 plains
4 waterlogged grove
2 seachrome coast
3 collected company
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
3 deprive
3 damping sphere
1 eidolon of rhetoric
4 cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
3 experiment one
3 young wolf
4 strangleroot geist
3 rhonas the indomitable
Spells (20)
4 rapid hybridization
3 pongify
4 spell pierce
3 rancor
2 vapor snag
4 chart a course
4 misty rainforest
1 breeding pool
3 prismatic vista
2 forest
1 island
4 botanical sanctum
4 waterlogged grove
3 shapers' sanctuary
3 reclamation sage
3 relic of progenitus
2 damping sphere
3 disdainful stroke
1 nissa, voice of zendikar
BTW, in the current meta it might be interesting to switch stony silence with hurkyl's recall, which has the bonus of not hitting aether vials.
For Tron, stony silence is also very useful against their single best card in walking ballista, but lists are moving away from it, so the loss of stony silence might be tolerable.
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
2 Remorseful Cleric
4 Supreme phantom
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
2 deputy of detention
Spells
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
3 lingering souls
2 cavern of souls
4 seachrome coast
4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
1 hallowed fountain
1 godless shrine
2 island
1 plains
3 horizon canopy
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 eidolon of rhetoric
2 damping sphere
3 unified will
3 leyline of sanctity
thoughts:
here's the first draft of the deck
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 rattlechains
3 selfless spirit
3 phantasmal image
4 supreme phantom
4 drogskol captain
4 spell queller
2 deputy of detention
spells (11)
4 aether vial
4 path to exile
3 lingering souls
2 cavern of souls
3 seachrome coast
1 darkslick shores
4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
1 hallowed fountain
1 godless shrine
2 island
1 plains
3 horizon canopy
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 damping sphere
3 unified will
2 eidolon of rhetoric
3 leyline of sanctity
thoughts:
4 polluted delta
1 marsh flats
1 hallowed fountain
1 watery grave
1 godless shrine
2 island
1 plains
3 horizon canopy
3 mutavault
4 cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
2 experiment one
4 vexing devil
4 young wolf
4 strangleroot geist
3 rhonas the indomitable
Spells (16)
4 pongify
3 rapid hybridization
4 lightning bolt
3 rancor
2 spell pierce
4 misty rainforest
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
1 stomping ground
1 breeding pool
2 forest
3 botanical sanctum
4 surgical extraction
2 damping sphere
1 nissa, voice of zendikar
3 reclamation sage
2 beast within
3 unified will
i switched chart a course for spell pierce, and i'm happy to have more cheap interaction
I also think an UG version is viable
4 cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
4 experiment one
4 young wolf
4 strangleroot geist
3 rhonas the indomitable
Spells (18)
4 pongify
4 rapid hybridization
4 spell pierce
3 rancor
4 chart a course
4 misty rainforest
4 wooded foothills
2 windswept heath
2 breeding pool
2 forest
1 island
4 botanical sanctum
4 surgical extraction
2 damping sphere
1 nissa, voice of zendikar
3 reclamation sage
2 beast within
3 unified will
the second list is slower but much more consistent and in my testing it felt better at grinding games, despite not having the explosiveness of the temur version.
The thing i didn't test was surgical extraction, but i guess it's better, in the current meta, than my 4x relic of progenitus.
Feel free to drop by any suggestion!
4 cloudfin raptor
4 pelt collector
2 experiment one
4 vexing devil
3 young wolf
4 strangleroot geist
3 rhonas the indomitable
Spells (17)
4 pongify
3 rapid hybridization
4 lightning bolt
3 rancor
3 chart a course
4 misty rainforest
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
1 stomping ground
1 breeding pool
2 forest
3 botanical sanctum
4 relic of progenitus
2 damping sphere
2 ancient grudge
2 reclamation sage
2 beast within
3 unified will
Also, i'm going to experiment with a list that - heresy!- lacks noble hierarch, but in bant colors. Small splash for coco, it should play like UW does-.
since i just swapped noble hierarchs for rattlechains, i'll be watching closely if any hand could have developed better with the mana dork
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 rattlechains
3 selfless spirit
3 phantasmal image
4 supreme phantom
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
Spells (12)
4 aether vial
4 path to exile
4 collected company
1 cavern of souls
4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 temple garden
1 breeding pool
1 hallowed fountain
2 island
1 plains
1 forest
3 seachrome coast
4 horizon canopy
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 unified will
2 damping sphere
2 knight of autumn
2 deputy of detention
2 eidolon of rhetoric
Another card that struck my interest from the new set is Sky Tether, which in our build is a 1 mana pacifism and could be very interesting as removal choice in the more tempo-oriented builds like UW.
i propose the following:
4 misty rainforest
4 wooded foothills
2 windswept heath
1 stomping ground
1 breeding pool
2 forest
1 island
2 copperline gorge
2 botanical sanctum