MTG Salvation

Quote from PhReSHTinGZ »

I was worried this deck wasn't going to get anything but this week has been great. Cast trigger is insane but can't block probably means we can't play this but it is worth considering. BTW I'm Matt from the open, been very busy, hope I can add to the convo here.

Really appreciate you taking the time to post over here as well, what brought about the addition of Lili MD and SB and how was MD spellskite during your run.

Memorcide naming oblivion sower. Sower is one of the keys to the mirror that along with ghost quarter and surgical.

I love this; puts it in a similar spectrum as the rest of the eldrazi, bolt and decay proof, can be dropped on turn 2 and easier on the base than I can see this being making the cut.

Quote from Kruphix7 »

I really like reality smasher but i think it is better for br and monoB than it is for us. Just because they are more aggro and rampy than we are. I still definitely think it's wirth a spot, im just not sure where it fits in this strategy.

I really like lingering souls in this deck and it has been consistently good for me, but i also like sculler and think I probably play more colored sources than others seem to.

I have to say i like the idea of md censor. I tried a couple in the side and they were good. But since we already play path and gq md i could definitely see the argument for a md inclusion.

I think there is a lot of upside to reality smasher but as you said Its more likely that'll find a spot in mono black or a hyper aggressive BR build that likely forgoes sower and the top end.

Souls gives this deck a ton of game against the field and while I could see the mana denial push with Path & Aven, to me it would be a meta call and have a place in the sideboard likely competing with crucible of worlds slot.

Very good read, I've reached out to him on reddit earlier to hopefully come join the conversation here as well.

Thread has been updated, much appreciation to Master_Hades and Magus of the Moon.

Thanks for the great discussion Cap. Again I can see the value of endless one and the consistent ability to match the board state, late game as a top deck or tutor target its often a 10/10+, and post board GBx should be removing their decays.

I was watching Jonathan Sukenik a.k.a. Watchwolf92's stream a few nights ago and he was playing Magus' stock list from the MOCS but one of the first things he said he would cut is Godless Shrine down to 1 because its redundant past the first, I find that interesting for a number of reasons. I agree map is slow in the aggro match ups which is about 11-13% of the meta but against the field it is incredibly powerful. As others have said in this thread I don't view map as ramp per se but utility; often i'm fetching up Bog if i haven't come across a relic or GQ against Infect / Affinity if i haven't landed a souls, and on several occasions game 1 against burn or zoo if we've turned the corner mid I fetch up vents. In the case of map i see the pros and cons of it but in the dark against a vast field I would play it, in a meta dependent situation I could see cutting them.

No denying Timely is a great card and has been a gold standard against linear aggro strategies for a long time, I feel the way this deck is built though with souls and herder you're often at board parity or wider than the opponent when you're casting it so you're only getting half of the value conditionally where with Rest unless you're skullcracked its always 4 or 8 and can be used in resp to a command or crack where as with timely you're forced into a corner where you might only get half of the value if that, the upside is obviously there but personally I prefer the ability to interact with the stack and consistency. As for zealous i'll have to test it out, again appreciate all the feed back.

Congrats on all your recent success in leagues Cap. I've seen most lists cutting down to one Ulamog and 13 creatures overall. I appreciate that endless one always scales with the state of the game and sometimes you just need a threat and can often come down as a 4/4 late in the game after searching by announcing x = 4 and having eye with an untapped temple but having said all that it strikes me as a vanilla threat where as nearly everything in this deck gets value upon casting. I hope I'm wrong, and both endless one and endbringer wind up putting the deck over the top; its possible people who have been playing this deck (myself included) have become spoiled by the on cast triggers, a 4/4 on T2 or 5/5 on T3 is still really good and puts it in Gurmag Angler territory. Having said all that, I've been having a lot of success with my list and for the time being I wouldn't personally add endless one but I understand and support the reasoning.

I would really like to hear some in depth thoughts about how you assembled your manabase, I'm assuming the last two lands not on screen are windswept heaths? Also with all those utility lands and adding all is dust and conduit I realize you had to make some cuts but the maps add so much value in getting said utility lands or sol lands. With the lack of cantrip artifacts (4 down from Bx's normal 6-8) and no maps it would appear you're just shooting in the dark hoping to hit a silver bullet like GQ vs tron / amulet or vents & vault vs complex board states / burn.

In your sideboard you prefer timely over rest for the weary, again whats the reasoning. Burn gives this deck some trouble and post board they're live with 6 skullcrack affects, 1 mana and instant speed make a difference especially if you have your weary in hand pass and EoT they crack you respond with rest, are the 3 tokens making that much difference in the match up? You and others in this thread have advocated for Zealous, what are the match ups you're boarding it in against and how has the additional damage stacked up for you personally? Is sundering growth a test/pet card because WW can be a challenge early in the match ups i'm assuming your bringing it against.

Having said all that great job, looking forward to your response.

Ugin is a bit of a blank for them in the tron match up. Its +1 is going to our face more than likely since the majority of our creatures are greater than 3 toughness and we've got man lands to get after him and karn. To me this match up consists of slowing them down with disruption and ghost quarter so ideally you can ramp into Sower first. As for radiant purge, not a big fan of it, celestial purge hits the vast majority of problem enchantments and we only need 2-3 cards in exile in the early and mid game before sower opens up the rest of our deck.

back from the holidays and more testing. Another 5-0 league just popped up over on mtggoldfish




Interesting choices in this list; running 2 MD spellskites, upping the hand disruption to 6 MD 4 IoK / 2 TS, his manabase opting for 4 MD ghost quarter and a cavern of souls in addition to a previously discussed Vault of the archangel.

If you haven't had the chance to watch Magus of the Moon stream over on twitch I strongly encourage you too its a great resource for practical applications and choices of MD and SB slots he runs. Sebastian and others(including this thread) have done a great job beginning to optimize this build. Personally I think Kystich's list appears to me as a drastic meta'd deck to whats happening on MODO right now in leagues; Bx Eldrazi has really begun taking off and you'll often see it once possibly twice during your league. Another note about leagues that some reading this thread might not be aware of, Wizards doesn't post every 5-0'd list from leagues, so there is always going to be an under representation of whats actually happening in leagues. In addition to that during leagues you will not be paired with other players that have a similar record to you so keep that in mind. Leagues are a solid bellwether but Dailies and MOCS are an even better check of deck viability. Having said all that this deck has legs. To me personally this deck plays like Abzan with an elite top end. In all my testing it feels like pre-ban jund where it doesn't have a decidedly horrible match up against the field.


I'd really like to begin a discussion of match ups against tier 1 and 2 decks as determined by modern nexus (thanks Sheridan) and sideboards.

here is my current sideboard



a few notes; I've moved back to 2 MD ghost quarter 1 Bog, if you're in a heavy burn/zoo/linear aggro meta I can see adding tomb, vault or miren as the third utility land. Rest for the weary is much better in testing than timely, 1 less mana, instant, can often turn on land fall if need be with fetches and GQ or if they fetch turn 2 you can blow them out with it before burn can Command you. I like the spilt of 1/1 of Disenchant / Revoke Existence especially if you have U tron or lantern in your local meta, taking them off of their slaver lock or forcing them to dig for another bridge if they have an active ruins goes a long way. Ratchet bomb has helped a ton of match ups including elves, merfolk, lantern and affinity. I was previously impressed with Memoricide and walked away from it for a bit but its back, Its great in the Bx mirror naming Oblivion Sower, Scapeshift and just general combo and catch all.


Affinity - Having colorless answers to champion as well as plenty of removal and MD ghost quarter go a long way, they're nut draw can still get you if you keep a slower hand in the dark but this is a solid match up and it gets better post board with disenchant, revoke, spellskite, stony & ratchet bomb (often on two or 0 if early enough and opal presents a solid target)

Burn - This is one of the more challenging match ups if they keep a creature heavy hand and we keep a slower hand in the dark but there are MD shambling vents to gain life. Post we get access to rest for the weary, purge and spellskite.

Jund - Any grindy midrange deck BW swallows whole, even Liliannas ultimate isn't enough to truly slow you down, you can often control the size of their goyfs and if lili lands, her +1 often only gets half a card in souls. Post celestial purge provides a lot of utility and you tend to shave some of the top end.

UR Twin - With MD discard and efficient removal spells in PtE and Pact you can often afford to tap out or tap low, souls if a big challenge for them and they often lose access to their graveyard by virtue of relic and bog. Post you bring in purge for their Keranos, Moons and Splinter Twin in addition to your spellskites.

RG Tron - Again a challenge but by no means a horrible match up, MD ghost quarter goes a long in addition to having clean answers for wurmcoil and early hand disruption. Even if they get Karn out on three naturally they're likely going to have to tick down and that brings them into scion token and strangler range or if they go up they've often got 3-7 power on the table to deal with, Ugin is a bit of a blank against us, They can natural Ulamog more commonly than us but just like us they're running one copy in their 60. Post you often have surgical to pair with your disruption and GQ and stony silence to slow down their looks at tron.

Amulet Bloom - this is more of a challenge than tron because of their nut draw but again having clean answers to a resolved titan go a long way in addition to early disruption. Post you've got disenchant for hive mind and amulet, spellskite for slayers', Memoricide likely naming Titan & Surgical extraction to pair with GQ on a bounce land on occasion or summoners pact / Titan / Hivemind taken with disruption.

Merfolk - They need to turn on their lords by having spreading seas if they don't have that we often are able to gum up the board with souls. Turning on processing for blight herder early can be a challenge because of the nature of merfolk as a deck it similar to affinity in that it really doesn't use its grave yard, we can often race them with herder, sower and souls. Post you bring in ratchet bomb (often on 2), disenchant and revoke for vial and seas, don't forget you can GQ your own land if it has seas on it mid combat to create better blocks.

Infect - really enjoy this match up, non damage based removal, souls and GQ goes a long way here, don't remove their infector until after combat unless the game is on the line. Post spellskite, ratchet bomb (often on 1) and disenchant come in.

Manlands have been great, already made the grinder midrange match ups even better and there have been a few occasions that they have been the reason I pulled out a win against burn. I'm on 6 basics because I'm appreciating the utility ghost quarter provides, PtE in the format and blood moon. All though blood moon can be a pain its not a instawin, it just slows the match up down even more and there have been occasions where i've had purge in hand but landed a sower and let it exist because it turned on all the fetches from my opponent. I've moved from utter end back to pact, its nice insurance to be able to tap out for herder or sower and say deal with it, and Utter end was really there for Lili/Moon but this deck is resilient and i've lived thru lili ultimates on the regular and moon while a pain isn't back breaking.

Agreed with the core coming together. I like a split of Revoke and Disenchant, especially against lantern, its been nice to get rid of their bridge when they've had an active Academy Ruins and force them to dig for another.

lately I've been on 25 because of 3 man lands & 3 utility because if you flood out it isn't the worst because of Eye and man lands. Miren has worked out well, occasionally you'll be in a position with a resolved blight herder or sower at 3-4 life and your opponent on the top deck where you're dead to a burn spell and you can move beyond that by sacing and keeping board with 3 1/1s, its as if you hit your SB rest for the weary.

I feel the core of the deck is quickly coming together; 13 creatures as you've listed, 4 PtE, 4 Souls, 4 Relic, 3 IoK 2 TS and the rest is open depending on how you want to build your mana base and if you want to be on the map plan.

OP of the BW thread here, link for those interested. I started that thread before this primer existed and while true all flavors of Zoo fall under one roof that primer is as others pointed out a "how to" on primers. Having a separate thread isn't a bad thing this primer is at 15 pages in less than a month and once Oath is fully spoiled will grow exponentially. Its my feeling that BW currently is the best build because of Souls and PtE as well as the SB options.

Really enjoyed your stream the other night with the deck. After having played and watched this on multiple streams, I think the match up against Ad Nauseam was worse in theory than in practice and paper, same can be said for the merfolk match up.

I think if you run a utility land suite of MD ghost quarter, Bojuka Bog & Miren, the moaning well, map is well positioned. Souls does in fact put this deck over the top PtE is great but the reason you run white is for souls and sideboard options. I too have moved up to 3 eye for the same reasons you state in addition to having a Urborg out and an eye in play if need be you can always "mox opal" it.

if budget reasons on modo wasn't an issue what would you're SB look right? Here is my current build and SB.

Thanks for the clarification, MD ghost quarter works really well i feel you can get jam 25 lands no problem if you're running 1-2 maps, with ghost quarter, bojuka bog and Miren, the Moaning Well to tutor up in some of the worse match ups isn't the worst in the world. Sculler is powerful I'll have to test it out in paper to see how often BW on turn 2 is a problem. I like Celestial Purge as a 2 of in the board it pulls overtime in twin and Jund. I've begun to move away from MD surgical in favor of maps and cutting my cantrip artifacts down to 4 because of the MD PtE and Bog.