MTG Salvation

Quote from cfusionpm »

Shroud is about a thousand times better than Hexproof.

Uh... isn‘t it the other way around? Since with Shroud, you can‘t pump, enchant or equip your creature.

Brace, brace.

Fact or Fiction is coming!

I’m not sure if you would want most of your threats to depend on a resolved Karn. It gives you even less threat density and actually putting a threat on the board requires either loads of mana or two consecutive turns without getting disrupted/countered. You can fetch what suits the situation best, but have a very limited follow-up once your threat gets answered since it‘s all one-ofs and needs Academy Ruins to retrieve cards.

Perhaps that‘s painting a black picture, as the above probably fits for all toolbox-versions of U Tron. If I may suggest, I would go with 1-2 Karn and a more or less classic sideboard with it’s selection of answers + Mycosynth Lattice!

Please, let‘s not discuss *that* topic again - the conversation gets destructive very fast and nobody seems to gain anything out of it.

As much as I‘d like to see Sylvan Library in Modern, with Ancient Stirrings being criticised whenever some colourless deck does well I‘d seriously doubt that we‘ll get such a toy in green.

I too fail to see, how BBE and JTMS should be the responsible cards for the current state of Modern. If there‘s a possibility to win harder faster, people will usually find it.

Leave the banlist for obvious design mistakes like Mental Misstep and unban cards that suit the general power level. If WOTC wants to push formats into certain directions, I‘d like them to do so by adding new cards to the format and let the community figure out how to face the threats. But to do so, the community would have to have the proper tools.

Quote from idSurge »

I'm at the point I may just trade in my Snaps and Tarns. I just know that if I do, Twin will be unbanned though.

Wouldn‘t that be a fair prize to pay?

Please also trade in your Batterskulls, while you’re at it.

Quote from KidRobot »

Hi All - I'm a fairly new Blue Tron Player and am learning a lot from discussions in this forum.

I'm sorry if I missed this somewhere, but I just needed to ask - have blue tron players consider using platinum emperion over angel?

Welcome to mtgsalvation!

Platinum Emperion is worse than Platinum Angel as it neither prevents you from getting milled or dying through infect damage (angel is one of your few outs in the infect matchup). Emperion also has 1 more cmc, which makes the difference between casting on turn 3 or turn 4 - given that you assembled tron, of course.

Emperion is sturdier against burn damage or Dismember, but the usual artifact hate (coming from sideboard) or Path to Exile do not differ. And you preferably do not want to attack or block with the angel either but rather stall for time or use it as a lightning rod. Angel gets boarded out often for game 2 because of artifact removal and people around here debate, if it even still deserves it‘s spot without infect being around as much and Merfolk having received better tools.

Despite all that, I am still playing good ol‘ Plat Angel and it has saved my ass several times but you could easily replace it with another Wurmcoil Engine for example. Important points in my opinion are to not go too low on artifact count and keeping an eye on threat density.

I‘ve never experienced the troubles Jitte caused and can only try to imagine what it must have been like.

One thing I‘d like to point out however @FoodChainGoblins, is that „this card is going to be in every XYZ deck“, „requires an answer immediately“, „see what it did in Legacy“ and „every deck cares about [...]“ were used when discussing the JTMS unban just recently. Modern still seems to be doing fine so far. Maybe there’s a possibility that not every deck cares about Jitte - the same way as not every blue deck runs an auto 4-of JTMS?

Many decks will try to run it, certainly. But this doesn‘t mean it suits them best.

Quote from KTROJAN »

Yeah I brought up titan breach as an example of a deck that can drop it on t3. We can use eldrazi tron as that example too if you'd like, my point still stands that it isn't that powerful or they'd be making sure it hit earlier/more often (run more copies) but it's not even close to the best things they can be doing on t3 so they don't. This is my point, t3 skull being the most powerful sfm could do isn't broken in the least. Idk what you think I'm trying to make this about but I'm talking about the fact that if it were soooooo busted like some seem to think people would already be making it happen early without sfm. Fact is batterskull is just good compared to things like t3 titan swing and kill you in breach, t2 kill you in gishoalbrand, t3 kill you in storm, t3 kill you in company, t3/4 kill you in affinity, t3/4 kill you in burn, t3 kill you in infect, t3 karn in any tron list, t2 tks into t3 smasher in any eldrazi list, t1-3 take all your cards put out a fatty or 2 in deathshadow list, and even t2/3 kill you in some random decks like cheeri0's (cool but all those things happen only if the opponent doesn't have any interaction, well same is true for sfm). Beyond the point that it's not fast enough to be troublesome in the current meta it also has the issue that there is hate everywhere for small creatures, hands, artifacts, and just turtoring in general. There is no way sfm is too good for modern and people that can't see that are silly. Is it good sure could it be in a t1 deck maybe, but I'm certainly not convinced it would be, and if it is I really think it'd be because it could use swords or something of that nature that isn't in the format currently.

I logged in solely for this.

Quote from cfusionpm »

Quote from wpgstevo »

If it wasn't clear, I disagree with those rationales. But I believe it will be what WotC uses to avoid the unban.

Ah, exactly. So they make some kind of internal decision based on gut feelings, superficial perceptions, and internal echo chambers, then make up some BS reason to sell to the public justifying it. Makes sense. Fits perfectly in line with many of their decisions.

And then I saw this. .__.

All I'm asking is for W to have its own Bob/Snappy/Goyf/Goblin Guide.

If looting is a draw-4 card, then relic of progenitus is a 1-mana cantripping full-hand discard?

Are you a broken disk or what?

Yes, we need more data.
Yes, we need the meta to adjust and adapt (few months ago ‘omg Phoenix too broken, they are all over in the top8!’).
Yes, we need to chill out.

Don’t feed the troll, I guess.

So, with less than a month to go before MTGS is shut down, I wanted to take this opportunity to share what a pleasure and honor it has been to operate this primer for the past 6 years. They say “time flies when you’re having fun,” and it certainly does not feel like it was a full 6 years ago that I started updating the OP with all the neat Tron innovations that have taken place since July of 2013. We used to be a green red deck with Eye of Ugin, then a green red deck without Eye of Ugin, then a green white deck, then a green black deck, then a mono-green deck, and now finally a mono-green deck with an optional wishboard package.

For both those of you who are new, as well as those of you who have been around for years, I’ve had a lot of fun discussing all the changes to tron that have happened over this timeframe, and I’m sad when I realize that MTGS has reached the end of its life. I first registered my account here in 2006 (back in RAV/TSP Standard), and after 13 years I’m sad to see it go.

This doesn’t have to be the end though; k0no posted about it a couple pages back, but we have a Discord server that is going to serve as the new “base” for competitive tron discussion. Here’s a link if you need one: https://discord.gg/cjctgkg

This primer (and the posts associated with it) will be put in “read-only mode.” While we won’t be able to post or edit, you’ll still be able to read all the great content that’s been posted here. Also, MTGS staff have indicated that they’re working on a replacement forum, and I’ll definitely be looking to migrate the primer there (perhaps with a new KGC section) if and when that takes place.

So I hope that you’ll join me in discussing more great Tron content going forward. If not, it’s been a pleasure talking with you, and I wish you the best of luck going forward. Thanks for helping to make this thread and primer truly great!

Sincerely,
Slivortal

When there's a new forum, as long as there's an appropriate place for it I'll copy this guide over there. Of course we'll lose all the chat, not much to do about that. It'll still be here in read-only form, though.

The real nightmare is going to be reformatting everything, after all the hours I had to put into it to get it up to primer caliber with this forum's tags. Blarg. Maybe they'll figure out a way to keep the same tags. I can only hope.

Boy, between RtRtR, Modern Horizons and the London mulligan, these are turbulent times for modern. I am incredibly excited.

Let's just hope there will be a good place to discuss all these changes once the meta forms

Quote from SaltySips »

Quote from cfusionpm »

Both of these swords are objectively worse than at least 3 of the existing swords (Feast/Famine, Fire/Ice, Light/Shadow). They will never see play in Modern without Stoneforge. And probably wouldn't see play with her either, in favor of Batterskull, and one or two of the others listed above.

I mostly agree. The protections from Sword of Sinew and Steel might come in quite handy though!

I kind of just think Shadow & Light is better for their protections.. Like Fatal Push Protection and Path to Exile, and on a x/2 body it survives bolt. Sure they could double bolt or something but I'll trade that easily enough.

Oh man, I thought this was a thread on how its been added!

Personally, I would love it.

Quote from Trazaeth »

This set is basically a standard set. Futuresight 2.0.

I'll bite.

What would it take to NOT be a 'Standard Set'.

Quote from idSurge »

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I'm absolutely glued to this spoiler season so I can say, "SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!" to absolutely ******* nobody; it's actually quite unhealthy. I'm not usually expecting much if anything from spoilers and sets, but WOTC and the community have hyped this set up so much as being a second coming...

...who exactly are you going to 'i told you so' to? Most of us that I saw trying to get some hype up for ourselves in this set did so because we see Modern as toxic, Wizards as hands off, and want a reset of the top decks.

In the scenario Horizon's does not accomplish this, you are going to 'told you so' to the same people who are disappointed that their own desires are not met?

He quite explicitly said "to absolutely ******* nobody"

I still don't see the negativity for the set in general. I can see why BGx players can be a bit frustrated, but at the same time, the set overall seems quite impactfull so let's drop the "if it sucks the join the club" camp for a bit. Heck, we've been discussing tricolored snow decks! So far things look promising.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I'm absolutely glued to this spoiler season so I can say, "SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!" to absolutely ******* nobody; it's actually quite unhealthy. I'm not usually expecting much if anything from spoilers and sets, but WOTC and the community have hyped this set up so much as being a second coming that I expected my archetype not to be fed hot garbage.


Like, as of now, Jund, Rock, Shadow have still received nothing. Abzan received a card, but Abzan has so many fundamental issues as of now it doesn't matter. I also think Kara's Guile is more of an esper card not Abzan. God knows the 3 drop slot in that deck is already filled with too much.

I just want a god damn good card, and so far most of Tuesday's big spoilers is already done with. So far Yawgmoth and a 3/3 undead dude isn't doing it. Neither is an unplayable snow deluge (not enough product).

From my testing, I think Traverse Death's Shadow has indeed received a card: Wrenn and Six. She accelerates you into your midgame and late game by recurring painful fetchlands, she deals with go-wide strategies by pinging their smaller guys, and her ult quickly ends games. I've noticed that she subtly does her part to win games, even in match-ups where you wouldn't think she's good like UR Phoenix, although it sucks when opponents swing into her and kill her before she ults. However, Traverse Death's Shadow has bigger problems to overcome: all that graveyard hate.

Jund and the Rock also received a good sideboard card in Collector Ouphe. We at the Gx Tron thread are already ripping our hair out trying to deal with it.