So, i tried vexing devil and it wasn't so good, mainly as it gave the opponent a choice. At the moment i'm using 3 bolts mainboard with 1x legion loyalist to try and boost the endings. Also i added 2x relic of progenitus to the side and they have served me well.
How have u mulled? I've tried both keeping one landers when my hand has looked promising (several one drops like young wolf and pongify with dual land) and mulled to get the second hand, and seems i've been mostly punished by the latter decision. Is there a consensus about this?
Now i've tried some variations and to me pelt collector didn't really work. I never got it past 3/3 and missed the regeneration ability of experiment one (that was the closest and so the only one that i swapped, all other creatures seem to add versatility more, though admittedly i'm a very mediocre player and didn't try vexing devil. All tested card draws were disappointing until smuggler's copter. Perhaps i'm slow, but the copter was great at braking stalls and the draw/discard while blocking was great.
Seems to me that the deck would really need new strong 4-of to be consistently competitive, but nevermind that as long as games are rewarding.
Hi! Don't know if anyone is playing this still but i think it's great fun. Hopefully (though probably not) wizards will spoil something good for simic in Ravnica, but in the meantime i thought i'd test perilous research, shapers' sanctuary, warriors' lesson and anything else i came across that will draw cards cheaper than chart a course or as an instant. For me it's been hardest to lose steam in turns 3 or 4, and smuggler's copter seems too much of an investment. My current test build:
At this point money isn't the issue, i just want to build an individual deck to suit my playstyle, and any missing cards i'll get over time. Company is really not what i'm after tho i know its merits, and hence the value of reflector mage and spell queller is greatly diminished. U are right about the noble hierach tho, i started testing with it and it works wonders!! I've overlooked it as an upgraded mana dork and awful topdeck later on but was really plain wrong.
Ludafish, that's really something im after, maybe the added mana dorks are the key to speed things up? (Also, cast out never worked well with me, its not that good of an answer OR cantrip, and the functions don't add up to much)
I also needed to go back with more coursers, as courser+knight is usually better than knight+anything else.
Not giving up on madrills just yet as they are good exactly when knight is not: the push decks with lingering souls. Ditched the declaration and now trying blessed alliance and selesnya charm in side.
I posted my deck to another bant thread and was suggested to ask help here. I very much enjoy the midrange-style, and have settled to traverse version of knightfall. The list is by no means ready or smooth but the general idea is there. I'm still considering renegade rallier to replace ojutai's command as value two-for-one. Rallier c'd also get back GQ's and tormod's crypts in game one. (Cryptic is a no go with my manabase and is not a good fit here.) Some choises came from the fact that my local fnm is riddled with burn and tron.
I've been sporadically brewing bant, and hope this thread picks up some speed. The control list sure seems interesting, tho i like midrange more. Here is my current list, not smooth by any means but u get the idea. Any suggestions w'd be appreciated..
Thanks for reply.
Mardu thread caught my attention already. Looks interesting and I will have an eye on that.
I abandoned the idea to buy Lilianas - she is still too expensive and hard to find any for sale in my area. I think it's too expensive compared to the value of the card. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any sense getting her by selling a kidney. So I will not go the BG way, but I've just taken an opportunity to buy some other cards, for example Kolaghan's Command. I have Snapcasters already so I think they will like each other We will see.
Seems to me you're sliding towards grixis controlish type without any help and i think that w'd suit u well. Shifting gears is certainly inherent there, and i think its very competitive choice. Death's shadow got u down? Bolt-snap-bolt. Combo? T2 tasigur with denial backup should make them cringe. All and all if u abandon the lily-goyf-control/clock (quite understandably) grixis might be the best bet. Whatever you choose it might be helpful to proxy it up or try it in xmage to confirm it suits ur style, hf!
Well yes, but as it seems they won't print any good 2-mana counter some removal instead might help to even things out. And actually that might help U even more than counters and encourage shifting UW controlish stuff from seemingly annoying ha-you-can't-play-your-cards to more acceptable style. Seems to me combo and aggro are doing fine as is but personally i'd enjoy more variety in midrange decks, AND that could be something wizards w'd think is healthy for the format too.. This is my educated opinion based solely on "gimme-that"-logic
Perhaps. So TS is fine and abrupt decay too but as UW this is silly? You're prob right but seems weird that black has better card draw and answers than blue. I still think toned down version would be nice for color balance, and the cmc 3 or less w'd minimize the harm in standard and OP-level in modern. So maybe like:
Pass AwayUW
instant
Exile target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less. Its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.
or
Pass AwayUW
instant
Put target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less into its owner's library second from the top.
Cycling UW1
Really any good two mana instant answer w'd do. But what do i know, i'm just dreaming..
Yeah, grapple is weak on it's own, some thought scours make it a bit better tho.
Against rest in peace i tried splashing red, so i had sacred foundry mb and 1 mountain with 3x huntmaster of the fells in sb, and that worked a bit, having the deck basically change strategy after boarding and seeing them slamming rip or relics against basically just dryads was funny. 4th color was a bit clunky tho so gave it up, in spite of master being good in grinding, but perhaps something similar might be good? Hm, not a fan of collected company but maybe, or some number voice of resurgence and such 2 for 1's...
On to clarify: white sultai refers to playstyle as it feels closer to sultai delver than any bant list i've seen. Minor point, like you said.
I've actually tried commune with the gods with dubious results. mana leak, while not great, is the best answer this deck has to lilis, karns etc so having one up turn 2/3 means i can't go gallivanting with sorceries. If, however, they decide to push the dryad or just SV i can still use grapple and not waste the turn. (haven't found worthwhile 2-drops with flash.) Later in the game it's much the same, especially with snaps.
I've even tested archangel avacyn before dropping lands to 21.
And yes, grisly salvage, grim flayer, liliana, the last hope and abrupt decay are all awesome but i feel those decks already exist and are not my cup of tea (to play i mean, i adore sultai delirium)
About good-for-nothing-goyf : i'm a bit wary of using only only grave-based creatures as this deck folds pretty quick to rest in peace and such, the puny dryad will still trade with death's shadow and tireless tracker and courser can still help me dig for answers. Or that's the idea at least, obviously not working too well. (btw, have you watched bbc's new sherlock?)
1 or 2 jace, vryn's prodigy tho, i bow to your wisdom and get some, and perhaps go for more consistent delirium so i could traverse for knight and additional sb hatebears. I'll try to update the list in case anyone's interested but meanwhile w'd welcome additional critique!!
Hi!
This is my latest project, based on my preference of playing instant counters over black hand disruption and the fact that knight of the reliquary goes so well with grave-based stuff. It's the star of the deck: can outgrow goyfs and shadows while helping with shenanigans with instants. I'm playing fnm-level and rarely see top tier opponents in xmage so any ideas how to improve??
I've already gotten a lots of great advice how to make a better deck, but not impoving THIS deck, so i'm hoping to find some here. Some preemptive comments tho: gnarlwood dryad is here as an optional delver that i can "flip" pretty easily if need be. A 1-mana 3/3 is noting to sniff at but many times its there to eat removal to secure knight. This is not a full on delirium deck, (i tried to build one but it ended too sorcery speed for my taste) but more like a midrange with the option of using delirium. grapple with the past perhaps not the best but a good play if no leak targets apper and way better topdeck than thought scour tarmogoyf is not going to be in this list, i'm sure it's a great card and so on but here it just doesn't DO anything, and i've been forced to shave so many better options already. wuould there be grim flayer in these colours, that'd be whole different matter.
Point is i can defend each choice but i'm still quite new to modern, so feedback would be great!!
So, happy ending as they say: after some cold truths about modern i realized the mid-range deck i WANTED to play would need some more investments. I built casual multiplayer with all my shamans and mizzium mortars and for modern the next list. I still miss wooded foothills but otherwise it's pretty much same as what i went to my first ever fnm with. Quite happy about it actually too, it's never going to win much but the main objective that i get to play was fulfilled. Collective def and surgicals are there to have a chance against scapeshift/ad nauseam etc.combos. I actually managed to bin a great scapeshif hand but wasn't lucky enough to draw surgical in time so i'm still pondering about mainboarding moon, just to get it out after sideboarding when its usually played around.
Any ideas/comments would still be very welcome indeed, and i thank you most humbly for helping me this far!!
Actually, here are some that i've tried/considered for this deck and in general:
thragtusk good, but without synergy here, costly 2-3 for 1 in addition to those i already want, went to sb ishkanah, grafwidow usually still no delirium so dropped (did think about delirium deck but that just seems way too vulnerable) traverse the ulvenwaldinst/sorc ramp similar to search for tomorrow with the slight possibility of being good topdeck later, evades bolt-the-bird-mishaps, utopia sprawl is so nice but not enough forests here harbinger of the tides too slow or too costly for vapor snag; too bad boom // bust i haven't got enough fethes to get it work savage knuckleblade 3dif mana do-nothning-right-now thunderbreak regent with haste awesome, without it i need more stormbreath dragon another 5-drop, i really like goblin dd so i tried adding more, got clunky
blink theme a la ghostly flicker/essence flux sort of ok, just different deck altogeter with more etb creeps, like maybe eternal witness,mystic snake,venser, shaper savant. That's eteral w's prob here, no flash no decent body= expensive draw a card you maybe want.. Eternal command looks great deck, just plain too expensive and there i think the substitutes work even worse, vials, commands and most of all fetches to make it even remotely playable. That is my main prob still, while manabase might support 3colors it's 1 or 2 symbols per card or it doesn't get cast. Scooze, while tempting exemplifies it, growing sloowly out of bolt range, maybe sb but would require much more to work as mainstay. ..i think, have to give it a proper go, it's one of the few good cheapos.. curious homunculus gets to the board easy, flips easy, and after flip great value for instant/sorcery-based deck for two mana, or maybe i just like the sillyness of it
i'm rumbling, sorry, quite tired, but you're right, seems i have two decks UR inst/sorc with homunculus and b.reveler and the cheap bits of reid's build mashed into one. considered jeskai and grixis versions as well, the latter presenting more promising options like IoK, kolaghnas comm and tasigur still at almost reasonable price range but it seems to me midrange sort of needs green and the big creatures/lifegain options.
Thank you very much again, i try some more and test your suggestions!!
How have u mulled? I've tried both keeping one landers when my hand has looked promising (several one drops like young wolf and pongify with dual land) and mulled to get the second hand, and seems i've been mostly punished by the latter decision. Is there a consensus about this?
Seems to me that the deck would really need new strong 4-of to be consistently competitive, but nevermind that as long as games are rewarding.
4x experiment one
4x narnam renegade
4x young wolf
4x strangleroot geist
3x avatar of the resolute
4x rapid hybridization
3x pongify
4x lightning bolt
2x spell pierce
2x vapor snag
1x echoing truth
2x telling time
1x dryad arbor
3x ceremonious rejection
3x ancient grudge
3x life goes on
1x beast within
1x echoing truth
2x unified will
2x dispel
At this point money isn't the issue, i just want to build an individual deck to suit my playstyle, and any missing cards i'll get over time. Company is really not what i'm after tho i know its merits, and hence the value of reflector mage and spell queller is greatly diminished. U are right about the noble hierach tho, i started testing with it and it works wonders!! I've overlooked it as an upgraded mana dork and awful topdeck later on but was really plain wrong.
Ludafish, that's really something im after, maybe the added mana dorks are the key to speed things up? (Also, cast out never worked well with me, its not that good of an answer OR cantrip, and the functions don't add up to much)
I also needed to go back with more coursers, as courser+knight is usually better than knight+anything else.
Not giving up on madrills just yet as they are good exactly when knight is not: the push decks with lingering souls. Ditched the declaration and now trying blessed alliance and selesnya charm in side.
I posted my deck to another bant thread and was suggested to ask help here. I very much enjoy the midrange-style, and have settled to traverse version of knightfall. The list is by no means ready or smooth but the general idea is there. I'm still considering renegade rallier to replace ojutai's command as value two-for-one. Rallier c'd also get back GQ's and tormod's crypts in game one. (Cryptic is a no go with my manabase and is not a good fit here.) Some choises came from the fact that my local fnm is riddled with burn and tron.
Any feedback w'd be appreciated!!
3x stubborn denial
4x thought scour
4x traverse the ulvenwald
2x tormod's crypt
1x declaration in stone
1x blessed alliance
2x search for azcanta
2x retreat to coralhelm
2x ojutai's command
1x jace, vryn's prodigy
1x qasali pridemage
4x knight of the reliquary
1x geist of saint traft
1x courser of kruphix
2x hooting mandrills
22x lands
8x fetch
4x ghost quarter
4x shock
2x celestial purge
1x scavenging ooze
1x kataki, war's wage
1x thrun, the last troll
3x ceremonious rejection
1x additional courser
I've been sporadically brewing bant, and hope this thread picks up some speed. The control list sure seems interesting, tho i like midrange more. Here is my current list, not smooth by any means but u get the idea. Any suggestions w'd be appreciated..
3x stubborn denial
4x thought scour
4x traverse the ulvenwald
2x tormod's crypt
1x declaration in stone
1x blessed alliance
2x search for azcanta
2x retreat to coralhelm
2x ojutai's command
1x jace, vryn's prodigy
1x qasali pridemage
4x knight of the reliquary
1x geist of saint traft
1x courser of kruphix
2x hooting mandrills
22x lands
8x fetch
4x ghost quarter
4x shock
2x celestial purge
1x scavenging ooze
1x kataki, war's wage
1x thrun, the last troll
3x ceremonious rejection
1x additional courser
Seems to me you're sliding towards grixis controlish type without any help and i think that w'd suit u well. Shifting gears is certainly inherent there, and i think its very competitive choice. Death's shadow got u down? Bolt-snap-bolt. Combo? T2 tasigur with denial backup should make them cringe. All and all if u abandon the lily-goyf-control/clock (quite understandably) grixis might be the best bet. Whatever you choose it might be helpful to proxy it up or try it in xmage to confirm it suits ur style, hf!
Pass Away UW
instant
Exile target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less. Its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle his or her library.
or
Pass Away UW
instant
Put target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less into its owner's library second from the top.
Cycling UW1
Really any good two mana instant answer w'd do. But what do i know, i'm just dreaming..
instant
Destroy target nonland permanent with converted mana cost 3 or less.
Cycling UW
I would play this, and it would give UW playes nice catch-all answer. Sry if this is alredy posted, i didn't read all the old ones.
Against rest in peace i tried splashing red, so i had sacred foundry mb and 1 mountain with 3x huntmaster of the fells in sb, and that worked a bit, having the deck basically change strategy after boarding and seeing them slamming rip or relics against basically just dryads was funny. 4th color was a bit clunky tho so gave it up, in spite of master being good in grinding, but perhaps something similar might be good? Hm, not a fan of collected company but maybe, or some number voice of resurgence and such 2 for 1's...
On to clarify: white sultai refers to playstyle as it feels closer to sultai delver than any bant list i've seen. Minor point, like you said.
I've actually tried commune with the gods with dubious results. mana leak, while not great, is the best answer this deck has to lilis, karns etc so having one up turn 2/3 means i can't go gallivanting with sorceries. If, however, they decide to push the dryad or just SV i can still use grapple and not waste the turn. (haven't found worthwhile 2-drops with flash.) Later in the game it's much the same, especially with snaps.
I've even tested archangel avacyn before dropping lands to 21.
And yes, grisly salvage, grim flayer, liliana, the last hope and abrupt decay are all awesome but i feel those decks already exist and are not my cup of tea (to play i mean, i adore sultai delirium)
About good-for-nothing-goyf : i'm a bit wary of using only only grave-based creatures as this deck folds pretty quick to rest in peace and such, the puny dryad will still trade with death's shadow and tireless tracker and courser can still help me dig for answers. Or that's the idea at least, obviously not working too well. (btw, have you watched bbc's new sherlock?)
1 or 2 jace, vryn's prodigy tho, i bow to your wisdom and get some, and perhaps go for more consistent delirium so i could traverse for knight and additional sb hatebears. I'll try to update the list in case anyone's interested but meanwhile w'd welcome additional critique!!
This is my latest project, based on my preference of playing instant counters over black hand disruption and the fact that
knight of the reliquary goes so well with grave-based stuff. It's the star of the deck: can outgrow goyfs and shadows while helping with shenanigans with instants. I'm playing fnm-level and rarely see top tier opponents in xmage so any ideas how to improve??
3x stubborn denial
1x traverse the ulvenwald
2x thought scour
3x grapple with the past
3x mana leak
2x wrath of god
3x cast out
1x retreat to coralhelm
4x gnarlwood dryad
3x snapcaster mage
1x scavenging ooze
4x knight of the reliquary
1x tireless tracker
2x courser of kruphix
1x eternal witness
8x fetches
2x ghost quarter
1x lumbering falls
3x shocks
1x stubborn denial
1x bojuka bog
1x jötun grunt
1x kataki, war's wage
2x loxodon smiter
2x ojutai's command
I've already gotten a lots of great advice how to make a better deck, but not impoving THIS deck, so i'm hoping to find some here. Some preemptive comments tho: gnarlwood dryad is here as an optional delver that i can "flip" pretty easily if need be. A 1-mana 3/3 is noting to sniff at but many times its there to eat removal to secure knight. This is not a full on delirium deck, (i tried to build one but it ended too sorcery speed for my taste) but more like a midrange with the option of using delirium.
grapple with the past perhaps not the best but a good play if no leak targets apper and way better topdeck than thought scour
tarmogoyf is not going to be in this list, i'm sure it's a great card and so on but here it just doesn't DO anything, and i've been forced to shave so many better options already. wuould there be grim flayer in these colours, that'd be whole different matter.
Point is i can defend each choice but i'm still quite new to modern, so feedback would be great!!
Any ideas/comments would still be very welcome indeed, and i thank you most humbly for helping me this far!!
2x spell snare
1x flame slash
4x thought scour
2x surgical extraction
1x pyroclasm
3x grapple with the past
4x mana leak
1x roast
2x collective defiance
3x snapcaster mage
2x scavenging ooze
3x huntmaster of the fells
2x goblin dark-dwellers
3x bedlam reveler
1x breeding pool
1x stomping ground
2x forest
3x mountain
3x island
1x faerie conclave
2x rootbound crag
4x flooded strand
4x wooded foothills
1x back to nature
2x ancient grudge
1x blood moon
1x vexing shusher
2x molten rain
2x anger of the gods
1x feed the clan
thragtusk good, but without synergy here, costly 2-3 for 1 in addition to those i already want, went to sb
ishkanah, grafwidow usually still no delirium so dropped (did think about delirium deck but that just seems way too vulnerable)
traverse the ulvenwaldinst/sorc ramp similar to search for tomorrow with the slight possibility of being good topdeck later, evades bolt-the-bird-mishaps, utopia sprawl is so nice but not enough forests here
harbinger of the tides too slow or too costly for vapor snag; too bad
boom // bust i haven't got enough fethes to get it work
savage knuckleblade 3dif mana do-nothning-right-now
thunderbreak regent with haste awesome, without it i need more
stormbreath dragon another 5-drop, i really like goblin dd so i tried adding more, got clunky
blink theme a la ghostly flicker/essence flux sort of ok, just different deck altogeter with more etb creeps, like maybe eternal witness,mystic snake,venser, shaper savant. That's eteral w's prob here, no flash no decent body= expensive draw a card you maybe want.. Eternal command looks great deck, just plain too expensive and there i think the substitutes work even worse, vials, commands and most of all fetches to make it even remotely playable. That is my main prob still, while manabase might support 3colors it's 1 or 2 symbols per card or it doesn't get cast. Scooze, while tempting exemplifies it, growing sloowly out of bolt range, maybe sb but would require much more to work as mainstay. ..i think, have to give it a proper go, it's one of the few good cheapos..
curious homunculus gets to the board easy, flips easy, and after flip great value for instant/sorcery-based deck for two mana, or maybe i just like the sillyness of it
i'm rumbling, sorry, quite tired, but you're right, seems i have two decks UR inst/sorc with homunculus and b.reveler and the cheap bits of reid's build mashed into one. considered jeskai and grixis versions as well, the latter presenting more promising options like IoK, kolaghnas comm and tasigur still at almost reasonable price range but it seems to me midrange sort of needs green and the big creatures/lifegain options.
Thank you very much again, i try some more and test your suggestions!!