MTG Salvation

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[There should be something involving foiling out decks, but I don't know what that would be.]

Can't go wrong with the classic, "Oooh, shiny!".

McCheaty(cheating creatures[often big ones] into play at a fraction of their CMC) = Because paying full CMC for full pain is silly.

Yeah, I got SLAUGHTERED during the end of my FNM runs with that 'Putrid Vat' combo, and I've never forgotten it. I had one guy try to bring out Vat in a game of EDH, and sure enough, he put Putrefax on it...Krosan Grip says no...:)

My suggestions:

Marsh Viper for Putrefax. If you insist on keeping Putrid, abuse the H*** out of him with a Mimic Vat.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast is a good combo with Phyrexian Hydra. Since Phydra can't get -1/-1 counters from damage...;) Perhaps replace Viridian Corrupter with her. This, however, is obviously more of a 'funsie' combo.
If you decide Mimic Vat is for you, I would drop Song of the Dryads. Your infect will be a considerable enough threat against big beats already.
In reference to your beauty, I would suggest that the point being made is you should focus your damage towards one or the other damage. Spreading it amongst infect AND regular damage gives your opponents more time to get their game online and stop yours. Losing him, I would suggest gives you a good slot for either Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots.
Lands concern me in your decklist. My count on your list is 35, and while you are running mana dorks and rocks, I'm not sure I'd say it's enough, even with the decent mana curve. How often do you find yourself sputtering in the game(unable to get started)?
One more thing to consider would be Grafted Exoskeleton, particularly for the creatures that don't have infect. Not sure what you should drop for that, though.

Some ideas:

Umbra Mystic - getting even more value out of your non-totem armor enchantments is fun, especially if you're spreading them around on creatures.
Aura Gnarlid - whether they're on him or not, he will get FRIGHTENING!
Kor Spiritdancer - little more specific for the beastiness, but something to keep in mind perhaps.
Hunting Grounds - free creatures? Free creatures.
Sigarda, Heron's Grace - Keep your enchantress' on the board.
Guardian of the Gateless - If you put most enchantments/auras on one card, this might be the girl to do it to.
EDIT: Forgot about two other options, one of which isn't so budget, but worth considering.

Bear Umbra - untapping your lands is fun for your second main phase. Or you could go with...
Sword of Feast and Famine - this is not budget, just to warn you. However, it's another option for untapping your lands for a great second main, though you have to HIT a player with this one.

Quote from Kassill »

I like this deck a lot. Just wishing she had at least one other color to play with. Also, Hero's Blade could be fun, but I understand slots are precious and it doesnt do anything beyond being thematic. Also Konda's Banner is a cool tutor-able anthem as well as Dragon Throne of Tarkir being a nice pump or pseudo Craterhoof Behemoth

Konda's Banner is something I've been told about often, and I keep trying to look for it...I may have to suck it up and finally order it online. I did NOT know about the throne however, so that may be something else to look at as well.

Hero's Blade is, as you said, more thematic than anything else. Not long ago, I saw someone post a Kari Zev deck, and someone suggested the blade for the deck...if only to have this come up...;)

Three suggestions I wanted to make on this one:

1. Polukranos + Bow of Nylea. Attack with 'kranos, then make him monstrous as much as you want/can. Great boardsweeper, as long as your opponent isn't running indestructibles. Best part is, the bow won't be a waste at any other time either.

2. I would urge you to take another look at Skysovereign Being able to keep the faster planeswalkers in check, regardless of pillow forts, can be very useful and life-saving. Add in the cheap crew cost, and while it may STILL not fit in there, it's far from the disaster you seemed to hint at.

3. Selvala, Explorer Returned. She can be a VERY useful library thinner/mana dork/life gainer. A lot of people build decks around her, but she's VERY solid even as one of the 99.

Solid setup regardless!

Quote from Ryujin »

So I just realized that Sojourner can bounce himself.
Am I correct in thinking it returns, as the first ability's text is all one paragraph, or does it do an o-ring impression and remain exiled?

Looks like you'd still get it back. One of the rulings on The Gatherer says:
"A permanent exiled by the first ability will return to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step even if you no longer control Venser at that time."

Quote from Arxvacen »

Chancellor of the Spires is pet edh card #1. At worst its usually a tutor a la Rune-Scarred Demon when it comes down. Sometimes its a plowshares, wrath, or ramp. And the amount of times you go infinite off of someone elses' Rite of Replication is staggering (15% of the time, or more, this card wins the game on the spot).

Heck, you can pay additional costs like entwine. All a mono blue deck has to do is counter or mill TnN, and for 9 mana, get their own.

I prefer Chancellor over Diluvian Primordial supremely because it keeps the card in the graveyard for repeated abuse.

Bebop: "My man!"

My playgroup isn't THAT huge, so I only ever got this to go off once in the way you describe. My opponent had a Stifle/Trickbind effect in hand, but he was laughing as he let it go off about 40 times before conceding, saying it was the most awesome play he'd ever seen.

Now you've got me debating on whether I should swap out Diluvian in my Niv 1.0 deck or not...

Quote from Muspellsheimr »

Rhystic Study

Known in one of my groups as "Did ya pay 1 for that?"

I too seem to lack any specific cards that I tire of seeing. I guess it would be Karado, Ghost Chieftain, because I know I'll be wasting a ton of burn spells on that thing, and it'll be giving me the one-finger salute as it keeps coming back to the battlefield real cheap. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic is another guy, except you can't do spit about him if he stays in the command zone.

This is my list which i used to run, you could get some inspiration out of it maybe?

Quote from NineInchNall »

As a fellow Niv player, I'm continually thrown into head-scratch mode by the fact that both primers here on Sally use Dream Halls. Do y'all not play with a lot of other blue players (in particular) or players with lots of answers (in general)? Turning every single counter an opponent has into Force has, with my own limited testing, been friggin' terrible. I mean, yeah, when you land the Halls against a table of precon/noninteractive decks it's basically game-set-match, but is that really the metric by which the 10 millennia-old Izzet parun (praise be his beautiful name and frame) should be measured?

Stepping back a bit, ultimately, how do we want to win? We know that to combo off we need to recycle our hand multiple times and play spells for cheap or free - there are unfortunately very few cards in Magic that enable this, and Dream Halls is one of them. It does give advantages to your opponents too, but that's what the rest of the deck is there for - establishing and protecting your wincon.

In other words, if you're having trouble with blue players, the solution (in my opinion) isn't to remove Dream Halls, it's to find other silver bullets to use against blue which lets you asymetrically abuse Dream Halls. Don't get rid of your most powerful win condition! You have a full deck and the benefit of timing (you get to choose when and how you play it) with which to tilt the balance into your favor. If your opponents can take advantage of your deck better than you can, it means there is a long way to go in improving the list.

Quote from ChazA4 »

Wanted to start off by saying that I loved seeing how you developed this deck, even how you started it. When I developed my own Niv 1.0 deck(which I'll post eventually, so if you have time, your insight on my interpretations of this theme would be wonderful), I felt the same: Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/Mind over Matter/Tandem Lookout(everybody always forgets that guy, lol) just didn't strike me as 'fair'. Evolution went from 'draw and beats' all the way to its current incarnation of 'draw ALL the cards, and you have nothing to say!'.

As tuned as my deck is, your interpretations also help me look at stuff to put in for the funsies you seem to experience(I'm sure we could both swap stories).

Two suggestions that I have in my deck that are worth noting(one that may be bonkers for you to include, one not so much...). Apologies if these have been discussed earlier - I admit to some skimming in the previous pages:
Spellskite - People run destruction and boost spells a lot, and having an on-demand Redirect can ruin their day instantly(pun intended). Seeing as you are running Vedalken Orrery as well, you just increased your flexibility. Maybe you can, but I just don't see a downside of having a 2 drop, Redirect, especially since it keeps resources free.
Myojin of Seeing Winds - Now, stay with me on this(believe me, I balk at the CMC too, and I run it! lol). Read the benefit you get from casting it: the divinity counter. That's an immediate benefit right there. Barring counter shenanigans, popping that counter grants you 11 cards on average(Myojin himself plus the lands, for argument sake); that provides a lot of answers/card draw, and a lot of damage in short order. To be perfectly fair though, it's a rare card to use; I myself would only justify using it when I have multiple extra turns(Twincasted and Forked Beacon of Tomorrows, for instance) ready to go. But 'living on the edge' doesn't get much better than seeing this juicy big blue button just begging to be pushed...lol

Thanks for the suggestions! I will play a few games in the coming weeks and take notes on the times a Spellskite would have saved my bacon. I've never tried it in this list before, and I'm not sure what to think of it yet (who knows, it could prove as useful as Stifle and Trickbind). The Myojin I would have to take more convincing on... for 10cmc it basically needs to win the game on the spot, because having one in-hand early game is an absolute tempo hoser. If Omniscience sticks at 10cmc it's basically auto-win (and it's the only card at that cmc in the whole list). Adding a second ultra-high CMC spell AND not having it end the game on the spot seems less than optimal, but perhaps you can convince me otherwise?

In other news - Disallow will be making an entrance (to no one's surprise), and Baral, Chief of Compliance will likely find a slot too (the only question is - how quickly he would eat removal). I'm travelling at the moment, but will nail things down a bit better once I return.

Let's not derail this into a Tooth and Nail debate (unless it is as a comparison to Coaltion Victory as initially brought up).

As for the idea of using a card "fairly", there is probably never going to be an agreement here. As Sheldon has often said before, he approaches the format with the "build casually, play competitively" mentality. Now I know that some people in here and in the past have argued this because it requires approaching the game from a less than 100% mindset, and there is a certain amount of truth there. There is also a certain degree of what "could happen" versus what "does happen" (for example T&N and Palinchron). Getting back on topic, papa funk already plainly stated that Coalition Victory fail the "interacts poorly with the format" test (whether or not people choose to agree with this) and that this criteria is given a significant amount of weight. He also said that beyond that it is just an instant "I win" card with no other purpose, and that gave the card even less reason to stay legal. Many users have pointed out other cards which can duplicate this effect under very specific circumstances, but if I correctly recall no one has yet to produce a card that can duplicate this effect with a non-specific general. Also, due to the conditions which must be met, the only way to "play around" this card is to assume that every five color deck will run it and at all times destroy their lands as needed, ensure their general does not stay in play, hold up a removal spell, hold up a counterspell, and/or run and hold up a "you can't lose the game effect". Some of these options have merit outside of CV, but the majority of them just read like the presence of one card forces you to hate on a player just for choosing a particular color set.

So for everyone who wants to unban this card, I ask you this: What does Coalition Victory add to the format?

Triskaidekaphobia always adds a fun new element to any game I get to cast it.

Quote from ChazA4 »

Quote from Muspellsheimr »

Four player game
Player A casts Stranglehold
In response:

• Player B casts Mystical Tutor
• Player C casts Mystical Tutor
• Player D casts Mystical Tutor

Quote from MemniteShyamalan »

Quote from Muspellsheimr »

Four player game
Player A casts Stranglehold
In response:

• Player B casts Mystical Tutor
• Player C casts Mystical Tutor
• Player D casts Mystical Tutor

I can confirm this. I was one of the players who cast a tutor.

LMAO...am I correct in assuming that all three searched up some removal for that enchantment?

Nah we all found Fact or Fiction and ignored the Stranglehold for 5 turns.

Quote from Goldenbelmont »

Say I was playing Kalia and wanted to play a demon sub theme, I couldn't play one of the biggest Demon threats to Avacyn - Griselbrand. Just because someone came out with a storm deck that kills in a couple turns.

Note that Griselbrand being banned has nothing to do with any combos, storm or otherwise. It's because it's too strong in your Kaalia Demon sub-theme deck. Trust me, it'll go badly.

Because not everyone has the luxury of a set playgroup. I really don't want to wander onto random tables where Coalition Victory, or twelve-hours-Sharazad games are a thing. If you want to play non-banlist EDH; talk to your group about it. Please...don't try to make everyone follow that scary thought.

I cast Rest in Peace T2 followed by Energy Field T3. Both enchantments stay on the board for most of the game.

Late game, the Damia player drops Triskelion followed by Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. The player to my right is ready to scoop, and the player across from me needs the combo explained to him. Damia player explains the combo... incorrectly (trying to deal just 1 damage to Triskelion instead of 2), but we're being pretty casual so I just correct him an move on. He says something to the effect of "and now you're all dead!"

I grin and point at the Solitary Confinement I had dropped the previous turn, and I still had Energy Field, anyway. (I played both because Solitary Confinement got exiled by Narset's attack trigger.) "Okay, everybody but Lithl's dead!"

Then I realize his combo relies on Undying, and I've had RIP out all game, which I draw attention to. I have to clarify for him that yes, RIP does shut down Undying. The Damia player deals 1 damage to one of the other guys, exiles his Triskelion, and grumbles a bit.

I was playing this cheesy hermit druid deck but I intentionally built it without a quick kill. It used graveyard shenanigans to play creatures from my graveyard after putting necrotic ooze in play and using it to make infinite mana and abusing havengul lich's ability to cast creatures from my graveyard. I previously casted mystic snake to protect the ooze and the snake died, so people knew it was in the graveyard.

Somebody decided to 'slow me down' by casting Tainted Æther. I let it resolve and promptly used it to cast mystic snake, and kill it, to counter every spell my opponents cast for the rest of the game. Which was about 2 seconds because they quit after that.

The table: Thada Adel theft acquisition (me), Karrthus dragon tribal, and Grimgrin zombie tribal/mill/reanimator

Late game, Grimgrin casts Undead Alchemist. I'm kinda tired of his milling, so I respond with Gather Specimens. Grimgrin reads the card and says "hey, that's pretty cool".

Note: This particular game was on MTGO. When Gather Specimens resolves, it creates a popup window with its effect text until the end of the turn which you can't close, to remind you that the effect is in play.

After the Alchemist resolves and enters the battlefield under my control, Grimgrin casts Rise from the Grave targeting the Keiga, the Tide Star in my graveyard. When it enters under my control, he re-reads Gather Specimens and says "wow, that card's really powerful!"

Then he activates Coffin Queen to reanimate my Rimefeather Owl... which enters the battlefield under my control. "This is ********!"

Then he activates Balthor the Defiled. After I get all the zombies and all the dragons (including Karrthus himself), of course, he rage-quits saying that Gather Specimens should be banned.

Looking at my 1v1 boardstate full of all his best dragons, the Karrthus player quietly scoops.


Now, it's one thing to lose a powerful creature to GS. That's what the card is supposed to do. I can even forgive the Rise from the Grave, since the player had obviously not previously encountered GS and didn't realize it lasted the whole turn (despite the popup window in his face telling him exactly that). But Coffin Queen and Balthor the Defiled can both be activated at any time, so he could've just waited until my turn. Yes, maybe he was hoping to use the haste from Karrthus to swing out that turn, but even if that turn had gone as planned, it wasn't lethal on two players.