Is the butcher worth keeping if there a bit of a sacrifice sub theme involved. Sacking a token to a viscera seer or indulgent aristocrat or my elderly monument to make everyone else sack seems good. And I don't have grave pact or dictate atm.
If you can split the difference well enough, it COULD...but if you have enough aggro in the deck(and with cheap vampires, it's pretty easy to do so), you could find yourself often not seeing him before you win, or holding him in your hand as you do other things. It won't trigger Markov's eminence, but if you want to go that route, put in some options like Entomb, Buried Alive, and combo them with Unburial Rites or Reanimate, even Animate Dead.
A lot of people support(and I agree) that it's just as much the CMC of vampires as the amount...it might even be MORE important.
I have 29 in my decklist, and it works out pretty well. The expensive vampires like Butcher of Malakir and others in the 6+ CMC should be pitched for guys like Viscera Seer and even Gatekeeper of Malakir, or Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle. That said, I do believe I could benefit a bit more from MORE vampires. Given that I doubt you have or will get some of the cards I have in my decklist, a viable run might be to start with 30 and go from there.
man, your meta must be suuuper low power level for telepathy to draw hate. Usually when I play it, it reveals 5 kinds of scary BS that pulls the hate off me very quickly.
Besides, once it hits most of the damage is done, no sense crying over spilt milk. Hurting me won't let you have your secrets back.
Or, maybe people play it at the wrong time(because yeah...there IS a wrong time to play even Telepathy), which sets them up for a pretty bad fall. I'm not sure where power level theorycrafting fits in this commentary here...I thought this discussion was about the card and experiences with it.
Granted, Telepathy will reveal all(well, save for you) with no manipulations, but you know what? You(as in the player who cast it) are still an enigma. You are the one who is arguably the most dangerous. I feel it's like playing Seven Card Stud Poker, the other players have to play with their hands revealed, but can't see the hole cards. You can, AND you don't have to reveal your hand either. Hate's gonna gravitate towards that guy, especially if he wins consistently.
Glasses is more innocuous, even if it does permit, perhaps even encourage, 'puppet mastering'. Yes, you can only get away with lying a few times(maybe once), which is why you interject the truth now and again. Just as much a social format, EDH is also a POLITICAL format, which we all know involves sprinkling a bit of truth in with the lies. At that point, it's up to the 'puppet' whether they believe you or not. Your meta's mileage may vary with this...most I've played with enjoy figuring out what the truth is, and grudgingly concede to a 'lie well told'. Apparently, there are those who prefer their games as sworn testimony.
If your deck is so narrow in it's focus that a single hate card shuts it down, it is probably teetering on the non-interactive itself.
Academically, there's a point there. But there's a difference between someone running Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor and a Razaketh, the Foulblooded shell, and someone who just wants to pop Evolving Wilds to colour fix. The former is shutting down a likely lethal combo deck, the latter is stopping a generally innocent interaction and stopping a deck from being able to interact with the game whatsoever.
Stopping fetch lands is not stopping the deck from interacting.
It certainly won't help the deck to interact if they're already color screwed. Not everyone has a bomb hand from the start, but they keep a so-so hand because they have a fetch land to get that color. Oops, Ashiok says **** that, so have fun 'interacting' until you get the color you need. It may not be the definition you're referencing, but I see what toc is getting at, and it's a valid point. There's also the strategy(such as it is), of just getting the shuffle...but again, Ashiok doesn't like that, so I hope you're confident in how your deck was shuffled to start, because you're not doing anything with it.
On a side point, everybody's kind of fixated on Ashiok(which is legit...I see trouble ahead if that got to be a commander), but now we have Narset 3.0, which is at LEAST Leo 0.5. If Leovold was banned because it was oppressive, how would Narset be any better(I will find it interesting to see if she stays legal even in the 99, personally)?
I used this EXTENSIVELY back when I played in Fallen Empires; I felt it was so important to know what my opponent had. Obviously, it still is, but I'm not so fixated on that.
To that end, I too would have to disagree with Dirk's assessment. Telepathy was a centerpiece in my early Wrexial build(I don't know why...I think I just liked forcing everyone to 'bare it all', lol). I've seen a lot of people since play it as well. My takeaway(and obviously Dirk's mileage has varied) has been that the person who plays Telepathy better win fast, or get hated out fast. Sure, the table will gang up on someone trying to combo, and shenanigans have to be more stealth shenanigan-y, but by and large, people like keeping secrets, and Telepathy rubs people that I've interacted with the wrong way. It's only human.
Now, glasses have a bonus in that YOU are holding all the cards. Sure, it only works on one guy at a time, but let us remember that EDH is a social format, yes? A sudden Tim Taylor "Uh-oh...!" provides some amusing distraction and redirection...all without you having to play suit.
It's asymmetrical, but not unfairly so in the eyes of your opponents. Though I admit I'm biased...I still have a playset, in fact. I should put one into one of my decks just for crits and giggles.
If you're going to play shenanigans with +1/+1 counters, it would be remiss to not at least mention Sage of Hours. He's obviously STRONGER when you're targeting him with stuff, but shifting stuff around works just about as well...add in having two or three untap steps compared to their one, and bonus.
I dunno...5 is a lot for ONE R. I'm sure it helps building your storm count, or other straight burn spells, but that seems too lopsided to me. Ran it in Niv wheel, wasn't impressed. Ran it in mono-red burn, wasn't able to see it work enough to justify its slot.
I know where it is(I even utilized it to avoid suggesting zombies you already have), and most people will too. But there are some who PREFER it be posted here in the thread...I'm just giving you a heads up.
I'm going to operate under the assumption that, amidst all this background of why certain cards are in your deck, and what you're planning on getting next, you're asking for suggestions. Feel free to ignore me if I'm wrong.
First suggestion is that you might want to post your decklist here. I handle it just fine, but some people are a bit picky about not having the decklist right in front of them on this site. [deck,][/deck,](without the periods)is how you do it; then just enter each card's name with a number(most people use 1).
As you can see in my signature, I stretched a bit further, and made a Grixis zombies deck, as opposed to Dimir. Not saying one's better than the other, but it may play into how heavily you want to take my suggestions. So, here are some of the missing pieces(those without price tags following are less than a couple of dollars):
Relentless Dead($8) - Arguably the best cheap, recurrable zombie you could ever ask for. If you've got the oodles of mana(and I imagine Cabal Coffers will do it for you), you can save your whole army from a boardwipe.(EDIT: I'm confused...do you have Relentless in your deck already, or is it one you're attempting to acquire yet?). Withered Wretch - I am not a huge fan of mill(GY decks abound, but your meta may vary), BUT...if you intend to stay on that route, it never hurts to have a way to take out the choicest pieces that you can't steal for yourself. On that topic... Coffin Queen{$6) - She's been errata'd as a zombie, so she fits VERY nicely into your plan. She also serves as a political tool, in various ways. Fleshbag Marauder - Sure, he's usually a one-and-done guy for the ETB trigger, but if you recur him, he gets REALLY nasty, really fast. Unbreathing Horde - More useful if your meta is damage dependent, rather than removal heavy. He can also get pretty stupid fast, and without removal, he can be hard to get through. Vengeful Dead - Punish them for killing your zombies. Every little poke helps. Havengul Lich - Another meta dependent guy, but he's oh-so-fabulous most times. Add in that the zombies you already have(plus some of the zombies I'm suggesting) have activated abilities, and it will rarely be a bad draw. Lord of the Undead($13.50) - Another Unholy Grotto(only straight to your hand) is never a bad thing. Add in the anthem, and it's a must have. That price tag, though...
Suggested miscellaneous:
Grave Pact($15) - Punish people even more when you cast Fleshbag Marauder. Dictate of Erebos($11) - Arguably better than Gravepact because of flash, but if you can, why not run both? Sudden Spoiling($3) - Few things are more hilarious than having someone swing their army into your zombies only to watch them turn into fresh meat for your rotted friends. Has saved me from lethal damage more than a few times as well. Army of the Damned - The cost is prohibitive at first glance, I admit that. But more zombies is still more zombies, and being able to flashback it is another plus. Give it a shot at least. Urza's Incubator($10) - Another way to reduce zombie costs, aside from Warchief. This and the Horn can be expensive though... Herald's Horn($14) - See above. Aetherworks Marvel - Saccing all those zombies should have an extra benefit, I would think. This is an underrated card for those types of decks, I think. Westvale Abbey($5) - Again, saccing zombies should benefit you in as many ways possible. There's also some flavorful cohesion in having zombies sacrificed to summon a demon, don't you think?
That's just a few of the ideas I have, maybe something will tickle your fancy.
Man-lands and Ooze had swung last turn, and I was hurting. My turn rolls around, and I realize I have no cards in hand. Take the poke from Visitor to draw an extra card...Amulet of Vigor. Nice, but nothing stellar to save my butt. Scarab triggers, shock my opponents to scry...2 lands. Yeahno...put them on the bottom and risk drawing the next two: one of which was Army of the Damned. Amazingly, I have enough mana to play them both, so I now have 17 blockers. Pass turn, Damia has nothing, Nissa can't pull anything else amazing but still tries to get through my wall; I chump all of her creatures. Nail my opponents for 9 next turn, flashback Army(for 24 total zombies), mutually agreed GG.
Nicely played, WizardMN. Admittedly, it's a niche situation, but it's amazing how many people don't realize that PT's ability counts as a mana ability, and thus, can't be 'out-prioritized'.
The general philosophy of this board is to keep discussions contained into a single thread, so people don't have to read 10 page discussions in 4 or more previous threads. Age, in these situations, does not matter.
On to the rest of your post...
I just want to keep the setting light and fun, you know? I think wishes would bring some sort of impulsiveness to the game that can certainly be healthy if you don't take it too seriously. I think intentions are very important here. I want to play a wish to bring something to the table that no one expects; not even me when I put the card in my deck (that's not to say I wouldn't know what I'm looking for at the time). I hope that makes sense.
I think most can understand where you're coming from, with wanting to inject new fun stuffs into the format. But I feel that the biggest downside to wishes would be Greed...you want all the things, but you can't find the place to put them in your deck. BUT YOU WANT ALL THE THINGS! It feels like it flies in the face of those who also wanted all the things, but made compromises, alternatives, and outright had to say, "Can't do it".
Intentions are indeed important...yours as well as anyone else's. While yours do sound noble, it would be far too easy for someone else to make it completely IGnoble in one manner or another. I am aware that the same could be said of anything in the format(indeed, the game), but some of those ignoble aspects are still expected(hosing mono-color decks with Iona for one).
Forgive me if I'm completely off track, but am I correct in assuming that one of your agendas(if you will) is that you want to play a wacky card in a completely off track deck because you don't have the cards to play a wacky deck with that card? No judgement, because I understand the struggle, but that's what your last post seems to indicate is one aspect.
If you can split the difference well enough, it COULD...but if you have enough aggro in the deck(and with cheap vampires, it's pretty easy to do so), you could find yourself often not seeing him before you win, or holding him in your hand as you do other things. It won't trigger Markov's eminence, but if you want to go that route, put in some options like Entomb, Buried Alive, and combo them with Unburial Rites or Reanimate, even Animate Dead.
I have 29 in my decklist, and it works out pretty well. The expensive vampires like Butcher of Malakir and others in the 6+ CMC should be pitched for guys like Viscera Seer and even Gatekeeper of Malakir, or Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle. That said, I do believe I could benefit a bit more from MORE vampires. Given that I doubt you have or will get some of the cards I have in my decklist, a viable run might be to start with 30 and go from there.
Or, maybe people play it at the wrong time(because yeah...there IS a wrong time to play even Telepathy), which sets them up for a pretty bad fall. I'm not sure where power level theorycrafting fits in this commentary here...I thought this discussion was about the card and experiences with it.
Granted, Telepathy will reveal all(well, save for you) with no manipulations, but you know what? You(as in the player who cast it) are still an enigma. You are the one who is arguably the most dangerous. I feel it's like playing Seven Card Stud Poker, the other players have to play with their hands revealed, but can't see the hole cards. You can, AND you don't have to reveal your hand either. Hate's gonna gravitate towards that guy, especially if he wins consistently.
Glasses is more innocuous, even if it does permit, perhaps even encourage, 'puppet mastering'. Yes, you can only get away with lying a few times(maybe once), which is why you interject the truth now and again. Just as much a social format, EDH is also a POLITICAL format, which we all know involves sprinkling a bit of truth in with the lies. At that point, it's up to the 'puppet' whether they believe you or not. Your meta's mileage may vary with this...most I've played with enjoy figuring out what the truth is, and grudgingly concede to a 'lie well told'. Apparently, there are those who prefer their games as sworn testimony.
It certainly won't help the deck to interact if they're already color screwed. Not everyone has a bomb hand from the start, but they keep a so-so hand because they have a fetch land to get that color. Oops, Ashiok says **** that, so have fun 'interacting' until you get the color you need. It may not be the definition you're referencing, but I see what toc is getting at, and it's a valid point. There's also the strategy(such as it is), of just getting the shuffle...but again, Ashiok doesn't like that, so I hope you're confident in how your deck was shuffled to start, because you're not doing anything with it.
On a side point, everybody's kind of fixated on Ashiok(which is legit...I see trouble ahead if that got to be a commander), but now we have Narset 3.0, which is at LEAST Leo 0.5. If Leovold was banned because it was oppressive, how would Narset be any better(I will find it interesting to see if she stays legal even in the 99, personally)?
I used this EXTENSIVELY back when I played in Fallen Empires; I felt it was so important to know what my opponent had. Obviously, it still is, but I'm not so fixated on that.
To that end, I too would have to disagree with Dirk's assessment. Telepathy was a centerpiece in my early Wrexial build(I don't know why...I think I just liked forcing everyone to 'bare it all', lol). I've seen a lot of people since play it as well. My takeaway(and obviously Dirk's mileage has varied) has been that the person who plays Telepathy better win fast, or get hated out fast. Sure, the table will gang up on someone trying to combo, and shenanigans have to be more stealth shenanigan-y, but by and large, people like keeping secrets, and Telepathy rubs people that I've interacted with the wrong way. It's only human.
Now, glasses have a bonus in that YOU are holding all the cards. Sure, it only works on one guy at a time, but let us remember that EDH is a social format, yes? A sudden Tim Taylor "Uh-oh...!" provides some amusing distraction and redirection...all without you having to play suit.
It's asymmetrical, but not unfairly so in the eyes of your opponents. Though I admit I'm biased...I still have a playset, in fact. I should put one into one of my decks just for crits and giggles.
First suggestion is that you might want to post your decklist here. I handle it just fine, but some people are a bit picky about not having the decklist right in front of them on this site. [deck,][/deck,](without the periods)is how you do it; then just enter each card's name with a number(most people use 1).
As you can see in my signature, I stretched a bit further, and made a Grixis zombies deck, as opposed to Dimir. Not saying one's better than the other, but it may play into how heavily you want to take my suggestions. So, here are some of the missing pieces(those without price tags following are less than a couple of dollars):
Relentless Dead($8) - Arguably the best cheap, recurrable zombie you could ever ask for. If you've got the oodles of mana(and I imagine Cabal Coffers will do it for you), you can save your whole army from a boardwipe.(EDIT: I'm confused...do you have Relentless in your deck already, or is it one you're attempting to acquire yet?).
Withered Wretch - I am not a huge fan of mill(GY decks abound, but your meta may vary), BUT...if you intend to stay on that route, it never hurts to have a way to take out the choicest pieces that you can't steal for yourself. On that topic...
Coffin Queen{$6) - She's been errata'd as a zombie, so she fits VERY nicely into your plan. She also serves as a political tool, in various ways.
Fleshbag Marauder - Sure, he's usually a one-and-done guy for the ETB trigger, but if you recur him, he gets REALLY nasty, really fast.
Unbreathing Horde - More useful if your meta is damage dependent, rather than removal heavy. He can also get pretty stupid fast, and without removal, he can be hard to get through.
Vengeful Dead - Punish them for killing your zombies. Every little poke helps.
Havengul Lich - Another meta dependent guy, but he's oh-so-fabulous most times. Add in that the zombies you already have(plus some of the zombies I'm suggesting) have activated abilities, and it will rarely be a bad draw.
Lord of the Undead($13.50) - Another Unholy Grotto(only straight to your hand) is never a bad thing. Add in the anthem, and it's a must have. That price tag, though...
Suggested miscellaneous:
Grave Pact($15) - Punish people even more when you cast Fleshbag Marauder.
Dictate of Erebos($11) - Arguably better than Gravepact because of flash, but if you can, why not run both?
Sudden Spoiling($3) - Few things are more hilarious than having someone swing their army into your zombies only to watch them turn into fresh meat for your rotted friends. Has saved me from lethal damage more than a few times as well.
Army of the Damned - The cost is prohibitive at first glance, I admit that. But more zombies is still more zombies, and being able to flashback it is another plus. Give it a shot at least.
Urza's Incubator($10) - Another way to reduce zombie costs, aside from Warchief. This and the Horn can be expensive though...
Herald's Horn($14) - See above.
Aetherworks Marvel - Saccing all those zombies should have an extra benefit, I would think. This is an underrated card for those types of decks, I think.
Westvale Abbey($5) - Again, saccing zombies should benefit you in as many ways possible. There's also some flavorful cohesion in having zombies sacrificed to summon a demon, don't you think?
That's just a few of the ideas I have, maybe something will tickle your fancy.
Man-lands and Ooze had swung last turn, and I was hurting. My turn rolls around, and I realize I have no cards in hand. Take the poke from Visitor to draw an extra card...Amulet of Vigor. Nice, but nothing stellar to save my butt. Scarab triggers, shock my opponents to scry...2 lands. Yeahno...put them on the bottom and risk drawing the next two: one of which was Army of the Damned. Amazingly, I have enough mana to play them both, so I now have 17 blockers. Pass turn, Damia has nothing, Nissa can't pull anything else amazing but still tries to get through my wall; I chump all of her creatures. Nail my opponents for 9 next turn, flashback Army(for 24 total zombies), mutually agreed GG.
The general philosophy of this board is to keep discussions contained into a single thread, so people don't have to read 10 page discussions in 4 or more previous threads. Age, in these situations, does not matter.
On to the rest of your post...
I think most can understand where you're coming from, with wanting to inject new fun stuffs into the format. But I feel that the biggest downside to wishes would be Greed...you want all the things, but you can't find the place to put them in your deck. BUT YOU WANT ALL THE THINGS! It feels like it flies in the face of those who also wanted all the things, but made compromises, alternatives, and outright had to say, "Can't do it".
Intentions are indeed important...yours as well as anyone else's. While yours do sound noble, it would be far too easy for someone else to make it completely IGnoble in one manner or another. I am aware that the same could be said of anything in the format(indeed, the game), but some of those ignoble aspects are still expected(hosing mono-color decks with Iona for one).
Forgive me if I'm completely off track, but am I correct in assuming that one of your agendas(if you will) is that you want to play a wacky card in a completely off track deck because you don't have the cards to play a wacky deck with that card? No judgement, because I understand the struggle, but that's what your last post seems to indicate is one aspect.