Hey guys, getting into Storm after seeing Caleb Scherer play it (he's at my LGS) and wanting some help with my list. I don't have a SB yet, but that will come soon.
I like this list for the most part however personally I would cut the [[noxious revival]] and 1 [[grapeshot]] and add 1 [[empty the warrens]] and 1 [[remand]] or [[peer through depths]]. I feel like having 3 [[grapeshot]] is unnecessary w/ the gifts package and [[noxious revival]] is more of a win more card. I say add 1 [[peer through depths]] or [[remand]] because it adds either card draw or tempo which is important while setting up your combo; also I say add 1 [[empty the warrens]] (more in sideboard if you can) because god forbid your grapeshots get surgical-ed or you get leylined and you have no way to win.
As for you land base it seems fine right now however a bit painful. I would not recommend more than 3 shocklands for this deck because you do not really need them. For me personally I usually first fetch for a basic island (if I have a cantrip) or a [[steam vents]] (tapped) T1 then fetch for red T2. If you have more [[flooded strand]] definitely add them. Usually I run 8 fetch (pref 4 [[scalding tarn]]), 4 [[spirebluff canal]], 2-3 [[steam vents]], 3-2 basics for a total of 18 lands. Also the basic mountain is usually not needed but if you run a scalding tarn might as well run 1 for the one time you need to conserve life.
Your list overall has all the core elements of a gifts storm deck. I wish you luck, and let us know how it goes at FNM. Have fun!
How is this deck different from gifts storm other than using more convoluted rituals and win cons (like channel the sun and increasing vengeance)? I'm curious.
It's not so much different, but it was the base of gifts storm after seething song was banned. I do think that current builds are better, but with this build you were able to keep some of the control elements that the original list had.
Oh ok cool. I subbed to this primer before Gifts Storm took off. Then once Gifts Storm became is own I made the switch. Good to know the history.
How is this deck different from gifts storm other than using more convoluted rituals and win cons (like channel the sun and increasing vengeance)? I'm curious.
After starting in Limited and using those cards to creep into standard, I think I'm ready to dip a toe into modern. What kind of deck would be good for a person basically starting from scratch? Not especially fond of control.
STORM STORM STORM STORM STORM... JK this is probably the worst deck for a new player. What sort of playstyles do you like (not control is not very helpful since there is like no control in modern)
If they have less mana (two mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (2 mana->4 mana) and a manamorphose (4 mana->5 mana) and you're dead, so you have to put past in flames in their hand.
Going from their if you give them a ritual they can go off. So you have to give them a manamorphose and hope they don't deck any mana.
If they have less mana (one mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (1 mana->3 mana) and a manamorphose (3 mana->4 mana) and its up to the top deck. If you put past in flames in their hand you should give them manamorphose so they are up to two mana + one card. (again its up to the top deck).
If they have no mana floating just give them the past in flames and a ritual and they should not be able to go off that turn... If you give manamorphose instead you risk a card draw into another ritual.
***clarify-> by floating mana I am also including potential mana from lands***
The scariest part of this deck is that it can go off the next turn if need by. Most piles will not give you an advantage, try to counter a past in flames or gifts if you can. Also look out for gifts ungiven end of turn on your turn, this will result in their win next turn. Kill the electromancer, this is the most detrimental thing you can do to the deck...
Hope this answers your question and then some about how to stop the deck.
Your list looks pretty good overall, if you cut Epic Experiment you can play more card draw like another merchant scroll or a peer through depths. The problem with epic experiment is that it is more of a "win more" card, usually its only good if you have enough mana to win the game through normal lines. Though if it is a fun card for you by all means play it, because in the end magic is just a game.
I really wanna play this deck however the primer is not in English so I am having trouble understanding the pros and cons of
KikiChord vs NahiriChord vs KikiEvolution vs KikiCompany
What makes each unique and what are each strength, what is the best for combo what is the best for midrange, etc etc
what would a list look like IF probe was LEGAL. I do not think I'd want to cut anything, maybe 4->3 Sleight of Hand 3->Peer through Depths +4 Probe. I'd be afraid of cutting stronger card draw for free card draw
Peek is fine. It is not the best option in the world, I'd only consider a one of for it. It does not dig as deep as we want to to assemble the combo, however it's upside is that we know our opponents hand (which can help us prevent our mancereffects from dying). Overall though I feel it is not for the deck compared to merchant scroll which can tutor for a gifts ungiven or a main boarded 1 of echoing truth or compared to peer through depths which is dig 5 choose and instant or sorcery of choice ritual or gift peek is underwhelming at best and a waste of a draw at worst... I miss probe
And while thought scour is good when you can take advantage of your graveyard, usually if you activate past in flames you win. Sleight of hand is great because you get to look at two cards and pick the better one, by giving you choice on what you get it becomes easier for you to go off rather than dump two into grave and hope for a combo piece.
I run the exact same 60 as you and agree Peer through Depths just adds the extra layer of insurance when you're going off or digging for that value warrens.
You'll notice, I completely forego bounce effects and usually heavily side out my gifts package and turn into a go wide empty the warrens deck.
The reasoning is because:
1) If opponent has RIP, spellbomb, relic in play, you already need to find your bounce spell and are on the backfoot.
2) If you opponent doesn't and you have the bounce spell, it's usually quite useless.
3) Multiple hate cards in play such as grafdigger's, relic, RIP, leyline make it almost impossible to find multiple answers to.
4) By not playing any graveyard strategies, you essentially blank out any hate opponents bring (and people usually mull till they draw hate in their opening).
5) Ceremonious Rejection is useful vs ratchet bomb and EE that come down AFTER a warrens (as well as being stellar vs tron/eldrazi/affinity). Shattering spree is useful vs them BEFORE a warrens.
Having said all that, I still believe the burn matchup is rough and currently have to bring
IN:
3x Pyroclasm
3x Blood Moon
3x Swan Song
1x Empty the Warrens
OUT:
4x Goblin Electromancer
3x Gifts Ungiven
2x Remand
1x Past in Flames
Just curious, how does blood moon help out in burn (even if it is naya)? It just appears to me like a deck which mostly only needs red.
i saw that swan song dont get a place in the 75 of most lists and i dont know why... it gets instants, sorcerys and enchantments. really good agains eidolon, Rest in peace, leylines and some annoying ones like o-rings, detention spheres, nevermore and so on... and since we are a combo deck, we dont mind the 2\2.
Yeah, I think you are right. I think I will try swapping out some dispels for some swans. If they don't work for some match ups then I won't board them in, but if they do work then what do I know I just saved myself 6+ damage from eidolon all for a 5 turn or so clock.
Also shout out to all you guys, I was on this page when git probe was banned and everyone was packing up moving on to new decks. Now we are back and better than ever helping each other out.
Hi Everyone,
I've Built this deck and I really like, but i find extrely dificult to sideboard with it, I usually know what to bring in, but to board out I struggle.
In my meta there is tron, burn, zoo, merfolk, valakut, bant, grixis and UR control.
I have: 3x blood moon, 2x Wear//Tear, 2x Anger of the gods, 2x empty the warrens, 1x Echoing Truth, 2x Dispel and 3x Lightning Bolt. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Yeah, I have a board of 3x Echoing Truth, 3x Lightning Bolt, 1x Dispel, 3x Wear//Tear, 3x Leyline of Sanctity, 2x Negate (I think I should take out the Leyline). I have a lot of burn in my meta and I have no idea how to sideboard. Someone have any pointers for side boarding vs what deck.
Currently I am running a standard peer through depths version of gifts storm (aka nomerchant scroll). There is a lot of burn in my meta and there is a ton of eidolon of the great revel how do you guys beat it? Currently my sideboard tech for burn currently looks like 3 leyline of sanctity, 4 lightning bolt, and 3 echoing truth and I usually sub in like 5/6 of these cards depending on how I am feeling (sometimes no leyline only eidolon hate other times only leylines). I am just wondering what you guys do to fight this card which single handedly kills storm.
Hey Atomic Empire,
I like this list for the most part however personally I would cut the [[noxious revival]] and 1 [[grapeshot]] and add 1 [[empty the warrens]] and 1 [[remand]] or [[peer through depths]]. I feel like having 3 [[grapeshot]] is unnecessary w/ the gifts package and [[noxious revival]] is more of a win more card. I say add 1 [[peer through depths]] or [[remand]] because it adds either card draw or tempo which is important while setting up your combo; also I say add 1 [[empty the warrens]] (more in sideboard if you can) because god forbid your grapeshots get surgical-ed or you get leylined and you have no way to win.
As for you land base it seems fine right now however a bit painful. I would not recommend more than 3 shocklands for this deck because you do not really need them. For me personally I usually first fetch for a basic island (if I have a cantrip) or a [[steam vents]] (tapped) T1 then fetch for red T2. If you have more [[flooded strand]] definitely add them. Usually I run 8 fetch (pref 4 [[scalding tarn]]), 4 [[spirebluff canal]], 2-3 [[steam vents]], 3-2 basics for a total of 18 lands. Also the basic mountain is usually not needed but if you run a scalding tarn might as well run 1 for the one time you need to conserve life.
Your list overall has all the core elements of a gifts storm deck. I wish you luck, and let us know how it goes at FNM. Have fun!
Oh ok cool. I subbed to this primer before Gifts Storm took off. Then once Gifts Storm became is own I made the switch. Good to know the history.
STORM STORM STORM STORM STORM... JK this is probably the worst deck for a new player. What sort of playstyles do you like (not control is not very helpful since there is like no control in modern)
Well it depends on what they have on the battlefield/hand.
If they make you choose manamorphose, past in flames, pyretic ritual, and desperate ritual and they have three mana floating there is nothing you can do, they will go off 100% of the time.
If they have less mana (two mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (2 mana->4 mana) and a manamorphose (4 mana->5 mana) and you're dead, so you have to put past in flames in their hand.
Going from their if you give them a ritual they can go off. So you have to give them a manamorphose and hope they don't deck any mana.
If they have less mana (one mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (1 mana->3 mana) and a manamorphose (3 mana->4 mana) and its up to the top deck. If you put past in flames in their hand you should give them manamorphose so they are up to two mana + one card. (again its up to the top deck).
If they have no mana floating just give them the past in flames and a ritual and they should not be able to go off that turn... If you give manamorphose instead you risk a card draw into another ritual.
***clarify-> by floating mana I am also including potential mana from lands***
The scariest part of this deck is that it can go off the next turn if need by. Most piles will not give you an advantage, try to counter a past in flames or gifts if you can. Also look out for gifts ungiven end of turn on your turn, this will result in their win next turn. Kill the electromancer, this is the most detrimental thing you can do to the deck...
Hope this answers your question and then some about how to stop the deck.
I really wanna play this deck however the primer is not in English so I am having trouble understanding the pros and cons of
KikiChord vs NahiriChord vs KikiEvolution vs KikiCompany
What makes each unique and what are each strength, what is the best for combo what is the best for midrange, etc etc
Thanks!
what would a list look like IF probe was LEGAL. I do not think I'd want to cut anything, maybe 4->3 Sleight of Hand 3->Peer through Depths +4 Probe. I'd be afraid of cutting stronger card draw for free card draw
Just curious, how does blood moon help out in burn (even if it is naya)? It just appears to me like a deck which mostly only needs red.
Yeah, I think you are right. I think I will try swapping out some dispels for some swans. If they don't work for some match ups then I won't board them in, but if they do work then what do I know I just saved myself 6+ damage from eidolon all for a 5 turn or so clock.
In addition what do you guys think of 1 peer through depths and 2 merchant's scroll I'm think of trying this temporarily as in my local meta I wan't to have a main board copy of echoing truth but I also love the peer through depths interaction with mancer effects.
Also shout out to all you guys, I was on this page when git probe was banned and everyone was packing up moving on to new decks. Now we are back and better than ever helping each other out.
Yeah, I have a board of 3x Echoing Truth, 3x Lightning Bolt, 1x Dispel, 3x Wear//Tear, 3x Leyline of Sanctity, 2x Negate (I think I should take out the Leyline). I have a lot of burn in my meta and I have no idea how to sideboard. Someone have any pointers for side boarding vs what deck.
Currently I am running a standard peer through depths version of gifts storm (aka nomerchant scroll). There is a lot of burn in my meta and there is a ton of eidolon of the great revel how do you guys beat it? Currently my sideboard tech for burn currently looks like 3 leyline of sanctity, 4 lightning bolt, and 3 echoing truth and I usually sub in like 5/6 of these cards depending on how I am feeling (sometimes no leyline only eidolon hate other times only leylines). I am just wondering what you guys do to fight this card which single handedly kills storm.