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  • posted a message on [Primer] Goblins
    I think that is a realla cool deck, love it Smile

    However, if we talk competitive, I think you are losing some consistency. Playing t2/t3 blood moon means that you are not flooding the board with goblins in those turns, and that is not what goblins do. You may win some games thanks to that, but you will be losing consistency. Blood moon decks are prison decks, and goblin decks are aggro decks. The combination is spicy and cool, but it will usually make you lose some efficiency from both strategies.

    If you were to play this competitively, I would think about which philosophy I like the most (blood moon or whack) and would stick to it. SB-wise, I could see a blood moon easier, but that is it.

    Just my opinion, maybe it actually works better than I expect Smile
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    guys, what is your opinion about the humans matchup? I have been testing and it feels quite winnable. My SB strategy is: -2 LotV +1 Damnation +1 Wrath of God

    Key cards:
    t1 discard is extremely powerful. I win most of the times I am able to cut them off from their explosive starts.
    removal: obviously
    Vault of the archangel creates super favourable trades
    Sorin performs also great. Sometimes, if the table is stable enough, we dont want to immediately attack (unless we have virtue), but to keep Sorin alive and emblem him.
    Bitterblossom: attacking with a 7/7 champion of the parish? I would rather eat 1 life from BB, thanks. IMPRESSIVE CARD THIS BB

    Opinions? How do you guys approach the MU? Thanks for the feedback!! Wink
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    I am now playing 2 Blessed Alliances in the side. The decision was made because Auriok Champion was not good enough IMO. Options I considered were:

    - Timely Reinforcements: Great card, but itbeing a sorcery and the lack of versatility makes not really appealing. I had this card in my deck some time ago, but burn players see it coming from far away. They just need to leave up their skullcrack mana and EOT boros charm you.
    - Leyline of Sanctity: Big tournaments rely on consistency, and this card is everything but that. Helps in a lot of matchups, but the math of running 2 copies in the SB is very bad. Even going up to 4 would not be too good, and would take slots from SB.

    Blessed Alliance is just more versatile and easy to play. It also works against Eldrazis, bogles... So I think i am settled now.

    I also included the third Sorin, Solemn Visitor over SorinLoI, and the deck felt much better yesterday in the testing. Played against burn, goblins, and infect. Burn is really 50/50, although 2 Legions landing help. Goblins is 60-40, and Infect is like 90-10.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    I might repeat some of what tarotplz just said, but here are my 2cents:

    - With only 2 PW main, Windbrisk Heights are definitely not worth it. Replace for the 4th Courtyard.
    - DiStone is really not good enough. If you are targeting tokens, you already have ZP in the main, which should get the job done 99% of the times (most tokens are 1/1s). I would remove these two for sure.
    - 3 Zealous seem a bit too much. Considering that you run 15 token generators (which is slightly over the average) I could see playing 3. But I believe 2 is the right number.
    - This leaves us 3 slots, that should be filled with 2 Fatal Push and probably another walker. I think running 3 Sorins main is the right call. At least, that is what I intend to do for GP Stockholm too. I have been playing around with SLoI, but I am going back to SSV for the GP. No jokes there.
    - If you, for example, cant get 2 FP, maybe you could fit a copy of Start/Finish there. Adds more tokens and a removal spell. The card is better in midrange versions, but if you are adding it on top, and not replacing any of the key token generators, it can only do good.
    - I dont really like adding HotPure, because 5 anthems might be dead cards sometimes and you dont want to lose momentum on the board. Specially with ZP. If you time is correctly, you will probably be able to blow your opponent in 1 attack.

    About the SB:

    We are talking GP, so you want to have things clear.

    2x Auriok Champion: I play it myself, but I am very likely going to replace it with somthing. Even against burn is sometimes too slow, and the only other good application is DeathShadow decks, but we are already favoured there. In my case, I am considering timely reinforcements and Runed halo for that spot (maybe blessed alliance).
    1x Basilisk Collar: I never got to really test this card because I didnt really had many chances. It can be great, and it is something I am definitely considering.
    2x Damping Sphere: I replaced my 3 Stony with them. I see you run 2/1, and that is okay too. I just like consistency.
    2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: Great card but in your deck, this is an easy maindeck card. Maybe the third Sorin that I mentioned, or one of the FP. This guy is great.
    1x Pithing Needle: Cheap narrow answer for everything. In a GP? I think it is a must have. 2 wont hurt.
    2x Rest in Peace: great. Considering you pack 4 GQ, I would try to fit some surgical extractions or extirpates for tron lands. they are also good against combo decks (combined with discard) and can be played t1. Sometimes t2 is too late to drop RiP (for example, on the draw).
    1x Stony Silence
    2x Sundering Growth: disenchant here. Not worth the risk
    2x Wrath of God: If you run 15+ tokens, I dont think this card is as bad you say. You just have to play it when the outcome is favourable for you. Just play it smart, and you will be able to rebuild much faster than you opponent, given that you buffered some tokens in hand (or Lingering Souls in GY). If you have a damnation, run 1 and 1, because humans is a thing and meddling mage is a pain in the ass. If you really dont like it, Ghostly Prison works great too.

    If I were you I would go:



    Dont take it as the holy grial. As I said, just my 2 cents.





    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    You guys are going against the last 2 years of posts in this thread. We have always been a nice and constructive community that would ALWAYS listen to opinions and help people needing some advice. What you are doing here is childish and only damages the forum and your reputation. I would kindly ask you to stop this and behave as the rest of the forum has always treated you. Thanks.

    Now to the matter. I am very much in line with what emu said. This deck is much better than the tier says, mainly because of the number of players in competitive events. Last two "big" events I have been to were a PPTQ where I went 6th out of 40+ people (7-2-1 I believe), and a MKM modern event where I went 6-4 but with some punting on my side, to be honest. In september I will be taking this deck to GP Stockholm, where OBVIOUSLY I plan to win hehe. I will be making some meta analysis and SB tech in the upcoming weeks, so guys be ready to contribute.

    The only thing I disagree with is Legion's Landing. I have tried it before and the card feels really powerful. We dont usually play it turn 1, because most of the people running it run 1 or 2 max. It is however, a free creature if you already have 3 creatures (which doesnt mean you are already winning) and the late game is very powerful. Agree that discard is very important, but give it a try if you havent yet. I am currently playing 2 of them. Along with 6 discard spells, 2 CB, 2 Lilianas, I dont feel I need more disruption than that.

    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    Yes, I am going to go with that. We will see how it works, but I think it is very reasonable.

    GQ fits better in decks with sorcery-speed spells, FoR does in decks that use to leave up mana. That is the short (but accurate) answer.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    Yes, it is being a interesting discussion Smile

    But the thing is: we can beat tron! I have won 4 out my 6-7 matches against them since I included Lili + 3GQ a removed spectral. I also added the third thoughtseize for the 4th IoK, but that was a bit later. I dont face the matchup so sadly or hesitating anymore. I actually kinda wanna play against them, because man it feels nice to win.

    As I said some post ago (when discussion alpine Moon), valakut still remains to be a bit worse because all the sweepers, but has also dramatically improved for me.

    On a different line: I think I am going to try the 2nd Legion's landing over the third S//F. The card has been great, and burn is still very random for me.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    I cant buy that tron and valakut are grindy decks. They have a very powerful lategame, but they require a great deal of setup for the first 3-4 turns. Disrupt the ramping and they will do nothing for the next 5 turns (as it happens with combo decks, e.g., remove the only creature in a storm hand and they will need to wait until they find one to reliably go off).

    Yeah, assuming they have tron or they have ramped up to 6 lands in t3, they are very powerful late-game decks, but that doesnt make them grindy at all IMO. They way in which big mana decks win is not topdecking and Ugin, is creating a scenario where they can play this Ugin, 4 turns before they are supposed to. No other deck plays Karn turn 7, because it is not that strong that late in the game. Dont mix these two concepts. We have to analyse things more carefully.

    I agree with tarotplz saying that the disruption you pack will get you further than the extra aggressiveness. You could also disrupt and control until you have 6 mana and go EOT 2x Start, untap, double intangible for 12 damage hehe. The only way I have totally wrecked a tron player was GQ+surgical. They have never scooped to spectral+virtue
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    Regarding SP: I believe it fits more into the aggressive shells for our deck. Since I play 3 of them in my control shell, I cant imagine myself going below 2 copies main. The card has made my deck so much better. There has been some justification in this forum and it is summed up in the description of my deck on my signature so I wont go over it again. In the end, it all reduces to trying the card out and evaluate which play-style you are looking for.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    @MarcWizard:

    I dont think the "grindiness" of a deck is only to be measured by how good a topdeck can be. To me, that is the wrong criteria there. According to that, Tron is probably the grindiest deck ever. Grindy means that we accumulate value over time, using our resources as efficiently as possible and, eventually, leaving our opponent without answers (via disruption or recurrent cards like BB or lingering). At least, that is my view.

    Topdecking is a situation in which we are usually stuck, against grindy decks too. There, our edge is not to hit a formidable PW that would tilt the game for us (although it could happen). Our strength is that practically ANY card we topdeck is going to create a slight value advantage to our side, because our cards are just more efficient that others. Our deck relies on CONSISTENCY, not on bombs.

    Now, regarding the go wide aggro deck, we can mimic a deck like that, with the aggro shell. I totally agree. I just say that we are not the deck that takes the most profit out of this strategy (see elves, goblins, affinity...).

    I might be totally wrong on my idea of the philosophy of our deck, but I honestly dont think so. What do other people think?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    I have to strongly disagree on that. Ever since I dropped my spectral for Start // Finish, the deck works better than ever. To me, they make more sense in aggressive builds.

    Also, totally in line with this:

    Quote from tarotplz »
    With how your list is constructed, I think it makes much more sense why you would be branching out to other answers.

    Tbh, I personally think that the speed of the aggressive version of this deck is a bit overrated. It's not that fast. Especially the big mana decks of Modern are used to go up against things like Affinity, Burn or Humans. These are all significantly faster than even the fastest of aggressive builds we can play. I used to think that we could beat things by racing them, but it never worked very well for me.



    Being aggro is not the most efficient way to use our deck. I am not saying that it should not be played, but it is just not the best shape you can give to the deck. We are probably the grindiest deck ever, so just exploit this as an advantage and dont try to get away from it.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    @MarcWizard I dont think anybody is upset because someone proposes new ideas! On the contrary, this is precisely the aim of this forum. I can see the different approaches from our decks. I usually never have tokens before turn 3, so I guess it is less harmful for control shells.

    Let us know how it works if you get to try it Smile
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    Land-based strategies are, for very independent reasons, always very hard to face from our POV.

    On one hand, we have big mana, like tron or titan bloom. This are unfair decks that are able to skip 3 or 4 turns to play their threats early in the game and are consistently able to reduce are boards to ashes (mainly tron).
    On the other, we have valakut, which, although seeing a lot of ramp, wrecks us due to its combo profile, coupled with the large variety of sweepers they pack.

    In my experience, it is not worth it splashing any color (usually red is the way to go) to counter any of these strategies. We have enough elements of disruption in our colors to properly fight them, and to (and what is MOST important) keep the rest of our matchups as good as they were or better. There will always be very attractive cards in other colors but we must focus on our concept of deck.

    You can say turn 2 is not the best turn because we want threats to be played that same turn. Well, even our most aggressive play t2 (RtA) means LITERALLY nothing against a t3 tron. So I have to very strongly disagree with some of you here. We have some of the best options for SB, because they really wreck strategies; that is the compensation wizards gave to such a linear color as white is; USE them!

    I leave here my strategy, in case it helps (deck in signature):
    Tron: 2 Surgical, 1 Extirpate, 2 Pithing needle, 3 damping sphere, and (maybe if I can bring something else out) 1/2 disenchant
    Amulet Bloom: 3 damping sphere, 2 disenchant
    Valakut: 2 Surgical, 1 Extirpate, and (maybe if I can bring something else out) 1/2 auriok champion

    Tron has become not horrible for me since I implemented these changes, together with my control suite. I dont have a lot of experience against amulet bloom but seems to be okay-ish, if we manage to get them hard with hand disruption. Valakut... is still horrible, but, not because of their combo, which we can usually disrupt (as with any combo deck), but because they have a toooooooon of sweepers, and that gives them a lot of time (we are not too explosive). They can easily convert this time in damage by drawing scapeshift off the top, or by simply hitting their landdrops and eventually having some valakuts in play.

    TLDR: there are plenty of tools in our colors to play with. There will always be bad matchups, but dont ruin the rest of the deck for those very unpolite people playing these horrible horrible strategies.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    Hi guys, some time since my last report. Could not play that much lately.

    I just wanted to report somthing very cool that happened last FNM. I went 3-1 losing to esper control, which is really surprising, given the good MU we have against them, but well, it happens sometime. Won against burn, GW value, and amulet titan. In the latter, this situation arised:

    I lock my opponent out of chances with hand disruption and Lili. They stand with 1 card in hand (which I know because it was revealed before), 2 dual lands, and a basic (virtually 5 mana). The card they hold onto is a summoners Pact.
    I have a Lili at 5 loyalty and a path to exile in hand. My plan is to draw trash, +1 lili, they will probably summon a baloth and put it in play when Lili's trigger resolves. THen I would path the baloth and hopefully they will draw nothing before I likely ultimate Lili.
    Such was my surprise when I drew my SB damping sphere. +1 Lili, they react as foreseen, and I discard my path. Play damping sphere and numb their dual lands. They didnt have enough mana to pay for the pact (dual lands would only add 1 mana now) and they, thus, lost the match.

    What a cool way to win! Aint it? Damping sphere FTW!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on BW Tokens
    I believe you want to go to the more aggro version of the deck if you are talking about outracing them. I would then go 4 RtA, some number of Legion's landing, 1 or 2 gids maindeck. Probably you dont want BB in that build, though. An aggro shell would look like:



    If you want to go for a more controllish version, check the list in my signature, for example (there are many other in this forum). Staying somewhere in the middle is not recommendable.
    Posted in: Midrange
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