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  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Here is the final list I ended up playing last FNM. Went 3-1 losing only to a UR deck playing crackling drake, thing in the ice, and pyromancer ascension... the guy went 4-0 :O. Won against jund, mardu, and 4c scapeshift.
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-01-17-RSg-bw-tokens/

    HoB has been very powerful always and I have not missed Lili, which is really good, but in our deck works more like a winmore card. I see your point about cast out, but I wanted to try it. The cycling feels really sexy and I never felt like anguished did much for me when I used to play it. Since I am playing a more rounded version, it may become the 3rd push it has always been. Or even a ZP in the main. I think that is the only real flex-slot I have left, the rest of the deck feels reaaally strong.

    It finally felt like the deck was offering the perfect balance between disruption and pressure.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Guys, back from Stockholm. The GP was really bad in terms of results since I went 1-3 drop (might as well do some tourism). Won against KCI round 1 and then I got gotten by 8rack, elves, and modular. All of them super close matches. The deck didnt feel weak at all. But all the matches were the same: excellent job at disrupting initial turns, and couldnt deploy a menace afterwards, so they could rebuild.

    The only thing I would change is the 1-of damping sphere. I am looking at a 3rd wrath effect (ZP could be a good option too) or something else like a mindcensor or similar.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    I have updated a bit the sheet, to evaluate which cards have the best performance across the meta. I try to determine which cards are consistently good in the main, i.e., independently of the MU, and which are not as robust mainboard inclusions. For the SB, I try to determine which are the cards we make more use of, not based on the number we run, but on the MUs they are good against.

    These results are list-specific, but you can extract your own conclusions by substituting your list in the spreadsheet.

    MOST ROBUST MAINBOARD CARDS:
    Lingering souls (surprise), Gideon, Intangible virtue, Start//finish.
    LESS ROBUST MAINBOARD CARDS:
    Fatal Push, collective brutality, Legions landing, Liliana of the veil. (Well, those are our flex spots, so I guess it makes a lot of sense)

    MOST USED SB CARDS:
    Wraths, Pithing needle, Extraction
    LEAST USED SB CARDS:
    Stony Silence, Damping sphere, Rest in Peace, Blessed Alliance

    Worst cards in the main are basically our flexspots. It makes sense that they are so, because they are basically meta calls, and will depend on the MU. This means that the core of the deck has been very well established. Kind of surprised to see Start//Finish up there. I knew the card was great, but the math is unexpectedly favourable for the card.

    Even if Stony Silence is the card we use the least of our SB. I still think it is correct to use 3 copies, because we need it early in the game, and when it works, it works good. Surprised to see Pithing needle so high. If I were to substitute a card, I might replace a damping sphere for another needle. Still have a couple days to think about this.

    How about you guys? surprised?
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 2

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    I am working on a SB guide for my list. I have all the most relevant MUs sorted in columns and the strategy reflected in the table. If I am missing some relevant deck in the modern scene, tip me off please Wink Link:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D2_R_PZ5mumJMGYIpTEozUFFJ99DlhRDpWg8Z-rj0Gk/edit?usp=sharing (I hope it works)

    Currently, draw/play has not been taken into account, as I dont think it really matters that much. I would appreciate commets on that point.

    The last column on the right tells how many times a certain card is switched out/in (notice that cards with more copies in the deck will show higher numbers here, but might be taken out in less MUs. I should probably weigh that somehow). I can infer how relevant a certain SB card is, and which cards in my main are weaker to the current meta. I would also appreciate some opinions on that.

    Finally, and actually most importantly, let me know what do you think about the strategies for each MUs. Most of them are clear, but, well, criticism is always welcome. I would LOVE TO HAVE SOME FEEDBACK on the strategies before GP Stockholm (this weekend) Smile

    Feel free to take the spreadsheet as template for your own decks, but dont expect anything too fancy.

    Thanks a lot guys!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Hi guys, yesterday I took part in a PPTQ event. Short report of the rounds:

    31 people, 5 rounds. In the signature you will find a link to the list.

    Round 1: 2-1 against Jund
    This matchup is really good. He played really well turn 2 but they struggle a lot jsut to get close to winning. Nevertheless, Jund is a very real deck, and we need to play tight to actually be on the lead.
    IN: 2 Wraths
    OUT: 2 Collective Brutality

    Round 2: 2-1 against BW Superfriends
    This deck tries to be a tokens deck, but based on PW, way more than us. They play a lot of sweepers (main and postboard), and even a Cleansing Nova that wrecked all my enchantments game 1. Still, if you wanna get grindy, it is hard to out-grind tokens.
    IN: 2 Pithing Needle, 1 Wrath of God + 1 Damnation

    Round 3: 1-2 against RG prison/dragons/ponza
    Not sure about how to name the deck. Game 1 he caught me under the Blood Moon. I had a plains so I could do things, but then he managed to get me bad. Game 2 was simple superb. Disrupt, assemble tokens, pathpathpath, disenchant moon, attack for 12 in the air. GG. The guy was very impressed. Game 3 turned into a grind fest, which all the tournament ended up watching for fun (as it was the last match to finish). Amazing game full of ups and downs. I got to a critical point where I had Liliana of the Veil and Gideon, ally of zendikar on the table and active. protected by 3 tokens, while they had 1 creature. They topdecked a BBE into Fiery Justice dealing 4 damage to the tokens (killing them) and one to Gideon, who was at 4. Then they attacked with 2 BBE and killed both my PW and leave my board empty. Totally reversed the game there. Had they drawn a land, I would have won the match, easy. I could kill their creatures and their chandra thanks to Bitterblossom, but then I spent 5 turns attacking with my Shambling vent, and drawing lands. Only needed a token generator, but the gods of magic didnt give it to me. A pity to line 6 lands on a row after all the thing happening in the matchup, but, well, ***** happens.
    IN: 2 Disenchant
    OUT: 2 Legion´s Landing

    Round 4: 0-2 against Hollow One
    The guy told me that it was gonna be a good matchup for me. I disagreed deeply, and apparently I wasnt too far from the truth. He trampled over my poor tokens. Didnt see any SB in game 2. I made a mistake playing a tapped land when I needed it untapped, and made things worse. I am not sure I could have won by doing what I wanted to, but it would have been closer, for sure. First time playing against Hollow One though, so I took some notes:
    - We need to mulligan a bit more aggresively to find GY hate. A good tokens hand is most of the times not enough, because they dont care about our
    early disruption.
    - Always pay attention to beginning of combat: the phoenixes are a thing.
    - Control the big hitters, then their small ones, and lastly their GY (as a rule of thumb, but if you have a clear chance to take on the GY, go for
    it).
    I will be practicing a bit this MUs, which are unfortunately not common in my LGS.
    IN: 3 Extractions, 1 Rest in Peace, 1 Wrath of God, 1 Blessed alliance (next time I will leave the alliace out for the other wrath.
    OUT: 2 Liliana of the veil, 3 Thoughtseize, 1 Collective Brutality

    Round 5: 2-1 against burn
    I think that with the new inclusion of Legion´s Landing and the 3rd Sorin, Solemn Visitor the MU has become much better for me. Game 2 he won on the classical burn outrage against a kind of meh hand I had. The other games felt really good and I was able to gain a ton of life with 1/1 lifelinkers. He never really had a chance, especially when I Iok away his Ensnaring Bridge
    IN: 2 Blessed Alliance, 2 Disenchant
    OUT: 3 Bitterblossom, 1 Thoughtseize

    Finally, 3-2. It could have easily been a 4-1, but variance didnt want to (it felt very bad to lose to this guy, because he was very annoying).

    I am very happy with how the deck performed and the one thing I am still thinking about for GP Stockholm are the 2 slots I dedicate in SB for Blessed Alliance. Sure they grant an edge against Death´s shadow, infect, eldrazi, or bogles. The first 2 are already excellent MUs anyway, and the two latter are not so played anymore. Burn feels like we dont really need those slots so badly. I am thiking about boarding something else instead in there. Something that can maybe help us with the new explosive decks appearing in modern: Hardened scales (the 1st and 2nd positions in the swiss were for this deck).

    Ideas? I am considering:
    - Zealous Persecution, for thopters, GY recurrent creatures, spirits...
    - Runed Halo, for valakut and similar combos
    - Ghostly Prison could be awesome against all these decks.

    Any tips on the SB or in general are appreciated. If you guys have any experience with the new emerging decks in modern, I would also appreciate that.

    THANKS!!! Smile
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Heeeeyyy!!! nice to see such a good result with a so similar list. I truly believe is the best implementation of tokens so far. Of course, I might be biased for how cool I consider myself XD

    Jokes apart, congrats for the final! As a brief comment, and although it turned out super fine for you, I believe that, considering the amoount of UW control decks around, pithing is a must have in the SB. If your local meta doesnt match that, then I would be okay removing it. Also Engineered explosives sees play in many different decks. I thing I will be packing a couple in my SB for Stockholm.

    EDIT: ah! and Walking ballistas!
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 2

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    You guys are going against the last 2 years of posts in this thread. We have always been a nice and constructive community that would ALWAYS listen to opinions and help people needing some advice. What you are doing here is childish and only damages the forum and your reputation. I would kindly ask you to stop this and behave as the rest of the forum has always treated you. Thanks.

    Now to the matter. I am very much in line with what emu said. This deck is much better than the tier says, mainly because of the number of players in competitive events. Last two "big" events I have been to were a PPTQ where I went 6th out of 40+ people (7-2-1 I believe), and a MKM modern event where I went 6-4 but with some punting on my side, to be honest. In september I will be taking this deck to GP Stockholm, where OBVIOUSLY I plan to win hehe. I will be making some meta analysis and SB tech in the upcoming weeks, so guys be ready to contribute.

    The only thing I disagree with is Legion's Landing. I have tried it before and the card feels really powerful. We dont usually play it turn 1, because most of the people running it run 1 or 2 max. It is however, a free creature if you already have 3 creatures (which doesnt mean you are already winning) and the late game is very powerful. Agree that discard is very important, but give it a try if you havent yet. I am currently playing 2 of them. Along with 6 discard spells, 2 CB, 2 Lilianas, I dont feel I need more disruption than that.

    Posted in: Midrange
  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Or you could simply go up 1 CB in the main. It is the most similar card to LoTV you can find, and it is just great. I play 2/2 CB and LoTV main, and I am superhappy with it. Also, it opens another SB slot for your wraths Wink
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 2

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    there is a series of videos on youtube by ivanmtgdpt where he tries the card. I wont tell you how the league ended, but the deck plays great (although he had very good draws most of the matches). HoB seems pretty powerful in the deck, even without the addition of any other knights. A delayed token generator is great, in the way lingering souls is. Tokens dont fly and are merged in one body, but you dont have to pay flashback cost. If you are lucky enough to have an active gideon on board, then feel free to create a Knight ally for flavor but the card is strong enough alone.

    That said, BW tokens might not be the perfect shell for it, but some other BW control kind of deck. Not saying the card doesnt fit by any means, only, I feel we are pretty good already building value over time, and I would fill those slots with something more disruptive, like a Liliana, or some additional hand disruption.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • 1

    posted a message on BW Tokens
    Quote from PlasmaCatcher »
    Quote from metalgear85 »
    Is disenchant good against EE, though? Dont they just play it, and if you cant counter, it resolves, they have priority, and they use it?
    Yes.
    If you suspect EE, and you should most of the time, only commit enough to the board to make them pull the trigger. Then rebuild.
    If they don't crack it immediately and try to 'hold it up', don't over commit, but also don't be afraid to keep pressuring and look for a chance to win a virtual value exchange if they ever tap out.
    EE wouldn't be the reason to run Disenchant post board, but it might have application against cards in a deck that run it, and if the opportunity for some serious smug points occurs, instant speed Disenchant is pretty sweet.
    Same for Batterskull etc. It's all about timing and opportunity, so when they don't have the mana to threaten your board or protect there own, instant speed interaction, in some really obscure situations make it such a fun and effective card.


    This is exactly what I mean Smile
    Posted in: Midrange
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