The correct number of Silent Clearing has yet to be determined.
I'm thinking running 3 or 4 and going to 24 lands. Seriously, this land is exactly what I was waiting for. It won't stop me from complaining from getting the occasional mana screw, but it will definitely shut down the little voices in my head that made me doubt wether 23 or 24 lands is the good amount for this deck. I can tell you I've been sleeping better since the reveal of this card.
We'll probably need additional ways to gain life tho. Sorin, vent and Vault might not be enough if we run this land. I'm thinking Timely reinforcements and/or Auriok Champion.
I might be late to the party, but are we going to run some numbers of Sunbaked Canyon? I'm thinking a playset, but I just wanna be sure. It can be a lot of bleeding on our part, but I know the power of Horizon canopy in an aggro deck and I'm pretty sure burn wants its own version.
Okay. just to be sure. Pillage straight up replaces any copy of Molten rain in the main? Seem like having access to artifact removal game 1 is way more useful than the conditional 2 damage. It also frees up one or two slots in the side.
Again, just wanna be sure. I'm running a ponza list with Goblin dark-dwellers and it just seem better in every way. I'm even thinking of running a playset in the 60.
I've seen discussion about a red splash in this forum for various reasons, but never seen any about Shared animosity and I always wanted to try it. Concentrating on spirit tokens with Lingering, procession and Midninght haunting (Possibly Promise of Bunrei too). It also gives us access to pretty much the whole Mardu pyromancer's toolkit too.
T2: Intangible; T3 procession; T4 shared animosity leads to 12 damage.
But, that's assuming we want more anthems in our deck. Maybe it's just the burn player inside me wanting the deck to be more aggresive than it can or should be.
The 3 huge strikes against this card are as follows;
1. Intangible virtue grants *each* token +1/+1. This card will only ever benefit once at most from our most powerful anthem. Bitterblossom produces 2 power each turn with virtue out, while this only continues to produce 1.
2. A single spot removal can erase all progress. Fatal push, path, terminate, even a single Reflector Mage trigger will feel horrible.
3. Same downside as bitterblossom minus the flying AND the multiple bodies means you can get chumped - while you bleed to death.
I think so. It only makes one token, which then grows. That means it doesn't even benefit from something like Intangible Virtue and Sorin, Solemn Visitor as much as other cards do.
Also the token has no keywords (at least for 6 turns after the one you play this), so it could very easily be chump-blocked.
Glad to see I'm not alone on this. Back to the trade binder with you then.
Monastery Swiftspear has not felt good for me. It isn't really her fault, it's just Skewer the Critics and sometimes Rift Bolt don't work well with her.
First let's consider replacements for Swifty, I'm considering one or two copies of Shard Volley, one additional copy of Lavaman, and . . . Well? I've got one copy of Gonti's Machinations but I don't like it. I really want to stick with one-drops. I might try one copy of Light up the Stage.
Monastery Swiftspear, Skewer the critics and Rift bolt (I will also add Eidolon of the great revel and Goblin guide to the list) are all cards that should pretty much be ran at 4 in like 99% of burn list, no matter the color combo or their unwillingness to cooperate with swiftspear's prowess trigger. Swiftspear make a quite convincing impersonation of Goblin Guide a good chunk of the time and that's good enought to place her as the second or third best creature choice for burn.
I'm not a fan of Light up the stage. Card draw in burn is usually something to pass as running more burn spell over it is usually better. However, a rakdos burn list is probably the best place to test it since we have an even lower mana curve than classic/boros burn thanks to bumbs in the night and Gonti's machinations. Speaking of which, Gonti's machinations is kind of a polarizing card from what I've seen in this primer. It's either you run four or none at all, and most people seem to vouch for none. I personally think it's pretty decent and can't convince myself not playing them in my rakdos burn. Each time I cut them, I end up bringing them back in.
Now go ahead and gripe about Dragonskull Summit and there not being enough fetches
This is getting pretty meta.
The Blood Moon strategy would be to swap the Bumps for them and one other card. It's probably a bad idea but I think I will test it further.
The Bridges may be another questionable call, but I think I will test them as well.
I'd usually shun both, but they are acceptable if your meta calls for it. I ran some bridges myself when Eldrazies were popular.
Sulfuric vortex would be spicy to get. I'm excited to see what's coming.
Sulfuric Vortex Chain Lightning Fireblast Flame rift Price of Progress (One can dream all right...)
Gimme any of these and I'll be the happiest burn player alive. In fact the printing of any of these in modern would finally enable an actually playable Monored burn list.
Some have called to Treasure Cruise as an analogy for LUtS (I shared what's written below on Reddit the other day). I think that they aren't as close as people would like to believe, because draw 3 is significantly better than draw 2. Let's assume that a deck is 2/3 Burn spells, which assumes that creatures are always live draws (which isn't necessarily true) and let's ignore that Rift Bolt is almost a dead draw with LutS. We'll also assume that whatever we draw with LutS is definitely getting played this turn it next turn, rather than left in exile.
With draw 2, your outcomes are 1/9 to draw 0 spells, 4/9 to draw 1 spell, and 4/9 to draw 2 spells. LutS draws 1.33 Burn spells on average, but with some variance. It's worth 2 only 44% of the time. When you draw 1, you're basically adding a tax of R to that spell and that happens 44% of the time. That's too high for my liking.
With draw 3, it's 1/27 to draw 0, 2/9 to draw 1, 4/9 to draw 2, and 8/27 to draw 3. Treasure Cruise draws 2 Burn spells on average, also with some variance. It's worth more than 1 almost 75% of the time. I'm willing to pay a tax of 1/2U or 1/3U for the spells I draw, and the tax of U for 1 spell only happens 22% of the time.
Put another way, LutS has a 55% probability of what I consider to be bad outcomes (0 or 1 spell) because those outcomes imply that simply playing Lightning Strike in place of LutS would have been an equal or better outcome. TC has only a 25% of those same bad outcomes.
In order for me to accept that playing LUtS is worth it, I'd have to convince myself that "R: draw 2 lands" is a good outcome for the reason of "you just moved them off the top of the deck". At present, I regard that as a bad outcome. Think of it this way, instead of paying mana for a burn spell and drawing lands the next 2 turns, you pay mana to move 2 lands off you're deck and get a slightly higher probability to draw a non-land next draw step. The first situation may cause a loss, or it could cause a win if the burn spell you had instead of LUtS wins now.
And now I know why card draw failed me everytime I tried it in burn. That was a fantastic post. Saving this quote for any time I get the wrong urge to run card draw/filtering in my burn.
I don't think he's high on LUtS in Burn, but just acknowledging that some are.
I'm not a fan either, but I didn't test it yet. Most of the "Card draw" I've tested in burn didn't turn out great, but maybe it's gonna be different this time. It's the first card draw spell in red that's both one mana and a draw 2, which is technically a +1 and it's easy to enable the spectacle in burn. We can't cast it on turn 1 which is kind of a big deal and there's definitely some awkward scenarios of card exiled (two lands, two 2-mana cards that you don't have time to cast, etc), but Light up the stage still looks very good. It bring the old question of how good must a "draw" card be to be ran in burn tho.
We don't want Browbeat or Risk factor because 3 mana and we give the choice to our opponent. Even if both choices are arguably good for us, they're not straight draw power cards. We don't run Faithless looting or Cathartic reunion because they're not a +1 (Hell, faithless is a -1) and it's mana spent on card filtering instead of burning. If deck thinning was our problem, we'd be running Street wraith and Mishra's Bauble. Fantastic cantrips, but wraith is dangerous in this aggro meta, and Bauble is kinda slow, AND running either or both of those options will make mulligans really risky.
Idealy we'd want to BURN while drawing, but the cards we have that do this are kind of mediocre (See Needle drop, Electrolyze, Magma Jet)
So it's definitely the +1 for one mana that warms people up to Light up the stage, but is it really good enough for burn or are we wasting time not burning stuff?
Also, Kaya's wrath is not better than wrath of god or damnation: casting costs, ruins your manabase if you play GQ, the no regenerate clause is also important...
Agreed. We don't need to constraint ourselves with that kind of casting cost when Wrath of God and Damnation are around. We usually already lost most if not all of our token to chump blocks and removal if we're to wipe the board, so the life gain clause on Kaya's wrath is not very good, and to make it worthwhile life gain, we need to overextend our tokens, which is also a bad idea.
There's plenty of wrath effect we can run. I've personally already gave a try to Flaying Tendrils and Hour of reckoning at some point in the past and while I don't run them anymore, I feel like both are better than Kaya's wrath. There's also Engineered explosives, but it's kind of expensive $$$ wise.
Rest in Peace is pretty much the best shot against Dredge. Settle the Wreckage might work once. Relic of Progenitus has been used to combat Delve back when Treasure Cruise was a thing, but I doubt it's good enough against Dredge. One could try it he were excessively attached to his Lingering Souls, but I think one has to bite that particular bullet and play RiP.
Surgical Extraction is another card that probably isn't good enough. But it might help a little and it does have application elsewhere.
For reference, I'm playing 2 Rest in peace and 1 Surgical extraction in my side to combat graveyard-focused decks. Dredge, RB Hollow one, UR Arcligh phoenix, Living End, Gift Storm, etc. There's a lot of grave focused deck right now. Thinking of going up one copy of RiP.
Or... Could the meta be calling for relic of progenitus (or Nihil Spellbomb if one cares that much for their lingering souls) to be played in the main? We are a meta-dependant deck after all and aside from Lingering souls, which isn't even completely shut down by relic, we don't need our graveyard and those options are not completely dead if we run into other decks. Maybe it could be worth testing if the meta sees a lot of the above decks.
(It did work for skred red for the longest time after all)
I don't think cindervines is playable. 3cmc drev is terrible and I don't think that the pseudo-pyrostatic pillar is worth it.
My thought exactly. If we are to play enchantment hate in the side, we want it as soon as possible (and/or with added damage). I know Cindervines is technically played on turn 2, but you can't crack it until you get that third mana and so it doesn't allow me to get rid of cards like Leyline of sanctity until turn 3. Destructive revelry does it with one less mana, and that's usually one less turn for my bolts to sit in my hand. (It's also instant speed)
I want to focus on Collision // Colossus and your general comment on pump spells for a sec. Pump spell are not burn spell and have unfortunately no place in burn unless some burn effect is attached to it (See Atarka's command). We need way more creature than 12/14 creatures for a pump spell to be even decent, let alone in burn. The potential +4 damage on a creature swing is unfortunately offset by it's dependence on the presence of said creature which makes the card worhtless by itself, unlike AC that can still do 3 damage on its own with the potential for more. And there's also removal to account for.
We could get the creature count up, but then we become more akin to a zoo deck, and it's not really the place to talk about this. (don't think zoo want that either, which would mean an even bigger no in burn.) Pump spell has always been more of a thing for infect. The explosive potential is there, but removal is a little too prevalent, and we just don't run enough creature to make pump spells worthwhile in burn.
EDIT: Oh, and while we're at it, if you run white mana, you run Boros Charm. No questions.
We'll probably need additional ways to gain life tho. Sorin, vent and Vault might not be enough if we run this land. I'm thinking Timely reinforcements and/or Auriok Champion.
Again, just wanna be sure. I'm running a ponza list with Goblin dark-dwellers and it just seem better in every way. I'm even thinking of running a playset in the 60.
T2: Intangible; T3 procession; T4 shared animosity leads to 12 damage.
But, that's assuming we want more anthems in our deck. Maybe it's just the burn player inside me wanting the deck to be more aggresive than it can or should be.
I'm not a fan of Light up the stage. Card draw in burn is usually something to pass as running more burn spell over it is usually better. However, a rakdos burn list is probably the best place to test it since we have an even lower mana curve than classic/boros burn thanks to bumbs in the night and Gonti's machinations. Speaking of which, Gonti's machinations is kind of a polarizing card from what I've seen in this primer. It's either you run four or none at all, and most people seem to vouch for none. I personally think it's pretty decent and can't convince myself not playing them in my rakdos burn. Each time I cut them, I end up bringing them back in.
This is getting pretty meta.
I'd usually shun both, but they are acceptable if your meta calls for it. I ran some bridges myself when Eldrazies were popular.
Chain Lightning
Fireblast
Flame rift
Price of Progress (One can dream all right...)
Gimme any of these and I'll be the happiest burn player alive. In fact the printing of any of these in modern would finally enable an actually playable Monored burn list.
We don't want Browbeat or Risk factor because 3 mana and we give the choice to our opponent. Even if both choices are arguably good for us, they're not straight draw power cards. We don't run Faithless looting or Cathartic reunion because they're not a +1 (Hell, faithless is a -1) and it's mana spent on card filtering instead of burning. If deck thinning was our problem, we'd be running Street wraith and Mishra's Bauble. Fantastic cantrips, but wraith is dangerous in this aggro meta, and Bauble is kinda slow, AND running either or both of those options will make mulligans really risky.
Idealy we'd want to BURN while drawing, but the cards we have that do this are kind of mediocre (See Needle drop, Electrolyze, Magma Jet)
So it's definitely the +1 for one mana that warms people up to Light up the stage, but is it really good enough for burn or are we wasting time not burning stuff?
"To burn or not to burn. That is the question."
There's plenty of wrath effect we can run. I've personally already gave a try to Flaying Tendrils and Hour of reckoning at some point in the past and while I don't run them anymore, I feel like both are better than Kaya's wrath. There's also Engineered explosives, but it's kind of expensive $$$ wise.
Or... Could the meta be calling for relic of progenitus (or Nihil Spellbomb if one cares that much for their lingering souls) to be played in the main? We are a meta-dependant deck after all and aside from Lingering souls, which isn't even completely shut down by relic, we don't need our graveyard and those options are not completely dead if we run into other decks. Maybe it could be worth testing if the meta sees a lot of the above decks.
(It did work for skred red for the longest time after all)
I want to focus on Collision // Colossus and your general comment on pump spells for a sec. Pump spell are not burn spell and have unfortunately no place in burn unless some burn effect is attached to it (See Atarka's command). We need way more creature than 12/14 creatures for a pump spell to be even decent, let alone in burn. The potential +4 damage on a creature swing is unfortunately offset by it's dependence on the presence of said creature which makes the card worhtless by itself, unlike AC that can still do 3 damage on its own with the potential for more. And there's also removal to account for.
We could get the creature count up, but then we become more akin to a zoo deck, and it's not really the place to talk about this. (don't think zoo want that either, which would mean an even bigger no in burn.) Pump spell has always been more of a thing for infect. The explosive potential is there, but removal is a little too prevalent, and we just don't run enough creature to make pump spells worthwhile in burn.
EDIT: Oh, and while we're at it, if you run white mana, you run Boros Charm. No questions.