Has anyone playtested Liliana of the Veil and disliked her and taken her back out of the control build?
I can raise my hand and say yes.
I tried two copies of her for about three months when my local was seeing a lot of bogles. It's good in that match-up, but it conflict with Lingering souls and especially Spectral procession. Turn 3 is usually the turn we want tokens out. If you can get in the attrition game, she's pretty fantastic, but I found her lacking and slow anywhere else. I'd rather run Collective Brutality or simply run more 1CMC discard/spot removal.
If you're really fishing for nontargeting removal, my personnal favorite is Runed halo. Blessed alliance also works pretty well.
Does anyone already have test results on Contaminated ground and how it's performing?
I actually went full retard and ran a playset in the main for about two months. It's very good against certain match-up (Like tron, duh), but lackluster against some (Jund can destroy it with abrupt decay and don't mind a land becoming a swamp). I've been able to lock some out of a color, and sometime they do like you say and put the land aside because they just don't want to take 2, which is not something I minded a lot since it usually slowed them down.
It punishes mana-short opponent very hard, and it's very neat to have this out with eidolon of the great revel. with that being said, I'm pretty sure you don't want it mainboard. If you were running Molten rain, it effectively replaces that and nothing more. Still if your meta sees a lot of tron, manlands or nonblack decks, you can give it a go like I did. It's basically a hotter version of spreading seas.
PS2: Just found Corrupted Roots, might be a sideboard card in the same way as Contaminated Ground, we'd be playing sort-of Blood Moon in Burn
It only works on plain and forest though, which mean you can't jam tron or utility lands with it. It's way too limited.
What is this? Did I just see someone running ajani goldmane and doing good? A singleton of both Timely reinforcements and shefet dunes in the main too? I was specifically told not to do the later by so many people and caved in...
Also, holy balls that sideboard is anti-burn as all hell
Okay, so I've tested a playset of Contaminated ground in the main for a good two months or so. I wouldn't advocate for a maindeck inclusion, but it's better than Molten rain for sure if you're in black.
There is no good reason to run any creature other than Auriok Champion in a B/W Tokens deck.
Well, there's an argument to be made for some others, at least for the 75. Always been a big fan of the Hero of bladehold in the side so that she can get in for a game 2 with less removal. I'm pretty sure some people are playing Selfless spirit to combat sweepers and Kataki, war's wage for Affinity and lantern control.
But if we're talking maindeck 60 though, I agree. Auriok Champion is pretty much the only one I'd personally play in the main.
I wasn't aware of this deck until recently but boy is it tempting. I especially love @Tawane 's version above, because 2x Mana Tithe main deck is just wonderful ^^
I was investigating about Leyline of the Meek at first, but I see it sees no play at all. I guess it's been ruled out for being too inconsistent ?
Leyline of the Meek is too inconsistent, it is overcosted when it is not in your opening hand, and most of all, it boosts your opponent's tokens as well.
I tried it too. It is kind of inconsistent, but it leads to some pretty broken starts and the fact that you boost your opponent's token as well is as relevant as the "copy the spell" clause on chain lightning. It sucks in the mirror, which happens rarely, and the occasional Lingering soul can be a problem, but that's pretty much it and we definitely get more gas from it than any other deck. It's also all tokens, not just white ones like with Honor of the pure. It goes a long way if you're playing bitterblossom
No. Version with Bitterblossom are more focused on attrition and getting value over time, bordering on control-midrange in playstyle and liking disruption a bit more. Builds with raise the alarm tend to be faster and will usually play more aggresive cards like Legion's landing and Honor of the pure. Both version are fine. Some even do a split between the blossoms and the alarm. It really depend on which card upside you like and which downside you're willing to deal with.
I don't want to give the impression that I'm annoyed by talking about different cards, so I apologize if that's the impression I'm giving off.
At the very worst, I'd say you are stern and that's a good thing. It's important to get a reality check when you only see the good side of the card. It might not be "fun" to hear for everyone, but it helps when the goal of the thread is to make the deck as competitive as possible.
It actually helped me dodge a few bad apples like Shrine of burning rage and Vexing Devil. (Especially vexing. I was a big advocate of it until I saw your post detailing why you don't like the card)
I am playing a 16 land Rakdos list with 32 drop-1. Machine gun RATATATATATATA ! Stupid deck, I love
We are actually running on very similar decklist/engines so I'll give my 2 cents. I'm not a fan of Collateral damage. Not sure if it's worth running over another burn or more lands. I mean, you and I can definitely function on 16 lands since we can manage with 1 landers, but that's risky and slows us down if we stick to 1 land for too long. With no other way to cheat mana, I'd rather run 18 in the main as a bare minimum. I also run an absurdly high amount of spell that only needs 1 mana (29) and 18 lands is the minimum I'd go within the main. I often switch between 18-19 depending on my sideboard choices.
Also, with 16 lands, you're bound to get rekt from time to time with land destruction/hate as it happens to me with 18. That's may be a risk you're taking, but that's another reason to run a bit more land than needed. Ponza is popular at the moment because of the unbans and I see spreading seas outside of Merfolk, at least in my meta.
Another thing, I wouldn't run any nonmountain basics (Glaring at that swamp in your sideboard). Red is more important than black in burn , no matter how you look at it. Furthermore, you're already running a playset of Sulfurous Springs in addition to eight fetches and two shocks. Unless your opponent keeps Blood moon against you, you're more than okay with 14 sources of black as that is the amount I personally run while having 12 mainboard black cards (like you).
also... no Searing Blaze and/or Searing blood main? is there a reason other than the 2CMC? those could easily replace your collaterals.
Sinister possession is funny ! At playing 16 lands it makes sense and can "offers" an additional attack phase, because if they block then the card is at less a Shock
I actually like Sinister possession more than Collateral damage. It has a bit less potential to be dead, and it will either get a creature out of the way or deal 2+ damage in exchange of some blood. It's another "Your opponent choose for potential damage" card though and I feel like it's not that good because of it, but I might personally try it and see for myself.
ANYWAY, I tested the list WITHOUT using field of ruin (partly because i forgot to proxy them up xD), and it runs VERY great. Small gideon is good sauce. Honestly i miss spectral proc in affinity matchup. Casting 1 of them usually wins the game on the spot. But i need to test more games to decide. Deck is great vs jund and abzan overall.
On another note: i MIGHT consider and favor GQ more than FoR because i'd like to blow the land (especially tron match) as fast as i can, and on the draw, they have the chance to 1-2-3 tron and when they do, it's all late if i were to use FoR.
The two questions that needs to be asked here is: Why would we run ghost quarter and can Field of ruin do the same job.
1) we run it because tron is our worst match-up and it can potentially break the urza land combo and buys us time until they can re-assemble it.
2) Technically yes, but ultimately no. It definitely destroy lands, but assuming they have natural tron, it only work if we're on the play, which we usually aren't game 2. It does help us avoid being mana short and can even color fix, but it bind our whole turn 3 play.
Field of ruin is a good card, but for me it's a no in tokens.
Beside, if you're really fishing for additional tron hate, evil presence is okay, and if we are to believe the dominaria leak, we'll have damping sphere that heck them up real bad.
First one is actually pretty small, it's one-sided. Meaning I can still gain life from my Gonti's machinations instead of losing it
Second on is the big one, Here's a snipet of ruling from Rain of gore:
This does not apply to life gain caused by combat damage from a creature with lifelink.
Meaning anything with lifelink will still gain life. It's small, but it's still something that would have costed me a game if I ran rain of gore over Tainted remedy.
why I lose matches, the main reasons (in order) are: life gain
Tainted remedy can do miracles in a burn sideboard. I've been playing it for three weeks only and it has already saved my ass from losing a couple games to sideboard. I have a couple fun stories:
-- That time when my opponent had a Batterskull that couldn't attack or block unless he wanted to take 4.
-- That player that cascaded with Bloodbraid elf into Kitchen finks and said "NOPE" and sent that fink right back to the bottom of the deck.
-- Current favorite is when I played against bogle and he puts a spirit link on my Eidolon of the great revel. Dropping a Tainted remedy not only rekt that play, but also jammed his Buff Bogle with lifelink.
I know it's a 3-CMC card, but I'm having way too much fun with it right now.
They don't really disrupt the manabase much at all. Most people actually play more than just 2 GQ. I think it'S a very important card to have in the deck. A 2WW situation almost never comes up.
Might as well drop my 2-cents on this too. I have a 23 lands manabase with 4 nonwhite sources (2 Ghost quarter, 1 Vault of the archangel and 1 swamp) and I rarely have issues dropping a Spectral procession turn 3. Not saying it doesn't happen, but if I can't drop it turn 3, I usually have something else I can do until the fourth land drops(Liliana of the veil, Lingering souls, 2-drops + 1 drops or a land entering tapped, etc.).
Hell at one point I was Abzan and I had more trouble hitting GB for Abrupt decay than I had hitting WWW for spectral.
Manamorphose could be the card justifying your Bedlam reveler actually. Cantrips alone don't usually make it into burn, but if it just so happen that one has added utility (Getting Bedlam Reveler out faster) it could work. Then again, it feels like those cards would go way better in the mardu pyromancer build then they would the burn build. If your goal is to make Mardu-pyromancer faster, I'm pretty sure you've already achieved that goal, but there's just so much speed you can bring to a somewhat midrange-y deck.
I tried two copies of her for about three months when my local was seeing a lot of bogles. It's good in that match-up, but it conflict with Lingering souls and especially Spectral procession. Turn 3 is usually the turn we want tokens out. If you can get in the attrition game, she's pretty fantastic, but I found her lacking and slow anywhere else. I'd rather run Collective Brutality or simply run more 1CMC discard/spot removal.
If you're really fishing for nontargeting removal, my personnal favorite is Runed halo. Blessed alliance also works pretty well.
It punishes mana-short opponent very hard, and it's very neat to have this out with eidolon of the great revel. with that being said, I'm pretty sure you don't want it mainboard. If you were running Molten rain, it effectively replaces that and nothing more. Still if your meta sees a lot of tron, manlands or nonblack decks, you can give it a go like I did. It's basically a hotter version of spreading seas.
It only works on plain and forest though, which mean you can't jam tron or utility lands with it. It's way too limited.
Also, holy balls that sideboard is anti-burn as all hell
But if we're talking maindeck 60 though, I agree. Auriok Champion is pretty much the only one I'd personally play in the main.
Intangible virtue, sorin, solemn visitor and Zealous persecution are better, but if you're already running those and want more anthems, it's worth a try.
It actually helped me dodge a few bad apples like Shrine of burning rage and Vexing Devil. (Especially vexing. I was a big advocate of it until I saw your post detailing why you don't like the card)
Also, with 16 lands, you're bound to get rekt from time to time with land destruction/hate as it happens to me with 18. That's may be a risk you're taking, but that's another reason to run a bit more land than needed. Ponza is popular at the moment because of the unbans and I see spreading seas outside of Merfolk, at least in my meta.
Another thing, I wouldn't run any nonmountain basics (Glaring at that swamp in your sideboard). Red is more important than black in burn , no matter how you look at it. Furthermore, you're already running a playset of Sulfurous Springs in addition to eight fetches and two shocks. Unless your opponent keeps Blood moon against you, you're more than okay with 14 sources of black as that is the amount I personally run while having 12 mainboard black cards (like you).
also... no Searing Blaze and/or Searing blood main? is there a reason other than the 2CMC? those could easily replace your collaterals. I actually like Sinister possession more than Collateral damage. It has a bit less potential to be dead, and it will either get a creature out of the way or deal 2+ damage in exchange of some blood. It's another "Your opponent choose for potential damage" card though and I feel like it's not that good because of it, but I might personally try it and see for myself.
1) we run it because tron is our worst match-up and it can potentially break the urza land combo and buys us time until they can re-assemble it.
2) Technically yes, but ultimately no. It definitely destroy lands, but assuming they have natural tron, it only work if we're on the play, which we usually aren't game 2. It does help us avoid being mana short and can even color fix, but it bind our whole turn 3 play.
Field of ruin is a good card, but for me it's a no in tokens.
Beside, if you're really fishing for additional tron hate, evil presence is okay, and if we are to believe the dominaria leak, we'll have damping sphere that heck them up real bad.
First one is actually pretty small, it's one-sided. Meaning I can still gain life from my Gonti's machinations instead of losing it
Second on is the big one, Here's a snipet of ruling from Rain of gore:
Meaning anything with lifelink will still gain life. It's small, but it's still something that would have costed me a game if I ran rain of gore over Tainted remedy.
Still, if cards like Batterskull, Wurmcoil engine or Sorin, solemn visitor or Bogle aren't a worry in your meta and you don't run Lightning helix and/or Gonti's machinations (Or you can side them out), then it could be worth it to run Rain of gore over Tainted remedy for the 2CMC alone. Just know that if you're against lifelink it's dead.
-- That time when my opponent had a Batterskull that couldn't attack or block unless he wanted to take 4.
-- That player that cascaded with Bloodbraid elf into Kitchen finks and said "NOPE" and sent that fink right back to the bottom of the deck.
-- Current favorite is when I played against bogle and he puts a spirit link on my Eidolon of the great revel. Dropping a Tainted remedy not only rekt that play, but also jammed his Buff Bogle with lifelink.
I know it's a 3-CMC card, but I'm having way too much fun with it right now.
Hell at one point I was Abzan and I had more trouble hitting GB for Abrupt decay than I had hitting WWW for spectral.