I'm gonna be a bit critical here. Feel free to ignore my thoughts if you feel they're too harsh, but it's all out of love I swear
If what you really want is a faster clock, I'm not sure you want to keep Bedlam Reveler. In fact, I'm sceptical of the card being worth it in a burn deck. You can't cast him until 5 or 6 instants/sorceries passed by, which means even in a best case scenario he doesn't get out until turn 4. Every creature you cast will not help you in any way to cast the reveler and will leave him to clog your hand longer and sometime for the whole game. Furthermore, our opponent should already be at death's door by turn 4, which mean an additional burn spell could actually do a better job than him.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like it's a fantastic card. But it's too slow for burn. You can't be part burn/part Mardu Pyromancer. You have to commit to one or the other, and if you want to commit to burn, I feel like Bedlam reveler has to be cut.
The other one I don't feel like it should be here is lavaclaw reaches. Not only is this a land that enters tapped, but you need three other land just for it to be a 2/2 creature. It's too slow, and it slows your other plays, and speed is close to everything important in burn. In fact, you'll win/Lose most of your game before even reaching a fourth land.
Another thing is red mana is of upmost importance in burn. Basic nonmountains and shocks without Red (glaring at Overgrown tomb here) are usually a big no-no and I'd recomment just running more fetches/Stomping ground/Blood crypt instead.
As for the sideboard, I don't think collective brutality is that great in burn either. I went against the recommendations made to me and gave it a try in my rakdos burn, but it's not that great in burn. The primer actually puts it bluntly but truthfully, its usually a 2 damage Lightning helix, and that's not good. You rarely want to use the other modes without escalating (Aside from killing Kor Firewalker) and escalating means discarding cards, and aside from extra land (Which we don't have a lot, like 1 MAX), I don't want to discard anything. If what you really want is something to kill the Kor firewalker, look at Fatal push, Reality hemorrhage and Pyrite spellbomb instead.
Again, great card, just not the right deck for it. Then again, with Bedlam reveler it's pretty good, but now we'd be running two cards in a deck that don't really want either.
Just my two cents. Rest of the deck seem pretty solid. Really dig the Kolaghan's command & Blackcleave cliffs. Actually wish I got myself a couple of those before the price spike
Well, it's all dependant on your meta, but with what you seem to be trying to do, having a couple drain-3 spells seem like somewhat necessary. In most match-up loosing life to lands won't matter, but against aggro or the mirror, having lifegain to recover from your costs is important. I don't know what I'd cut for more Searing Blaze, Maybe one or two Gonti's machinations (you don't have to run a playset) along with one land could make for two/three Searing Blaze main.
Now, talking about sideboard
My sideboard was a quick draft, and it's the part you'll most likely tune to your meta. I personally feel we're faster than most decks that want to play around with the grave, hence why I run no gravehate in my list, but feel free to run some if you need. Also, white is propably the strongest color for sideboards, and being 4-5 colors open you up for basically all the sideboard you could ever need. Just check the primer and you'll basically be set.
One other thing I'll point is if you already splash green for Destructive revelry, go for a full playset and don't split 2/2 with Smash to smithereens. Losing 1 damage to be ablet o deal with enchantments is more than worth it. If you're already at MAX DR and need more artifact hate, then you can play StS in addition, but I think it's overkill at this point. Again, if you meta calls for that much artifact hate, be my guest.
Oh ! Talking about playing 4 Drev and 3 or 4 AC: elconquistador1985 was talking about playing 2 Stomping ground to cast it reliably, so maybe we can down to 2 mountains and add a second ground.
Definitely agree there.
Thank you very much MisterMuffin21 to give credit to my idea to play a Tribal flames Burn deck. For you it is not a wacky idea, it deserves an real interest ?
Happy to help. If I didn't feel like there's something to do with this card, I wouldn't have jumped on the topic in the first place. Wish you luck
Ooooh... that's sexy
*Check prices* And dirt cheap!
It's a bit slow at CMC3 though... maybe one or two could make it?
Hmmm... that card will definitely stay in the back of my mind for a while.
Ok you convinced me, I’ll try it. 1) is actually true for almost every card we play, but still
You're kinda right, let me elaborate a bit:
Let's say you drop an Eidolon of the Great revel turn 2 and it survives, then you drop a contaminated ground turn 3 (Or vice-versa). You've now put your opponent in a pretty awkward spot until he reaches 5 lands, if he's 3 land or below, he's likely to take damage from either eidolon or CG, maybe even both. Sometime that situation will stay like that for a couple turn since most deck in modern not only like to be on curve, but have a lot of cheap spells to cast. At 4 lands he'll have to decide wether he keeps casting small spells and get punished by eidolon, or cast his 4-drop and lose 2 from CG.
Wow, full playset main sounds really spicy, could you post your full 75 please?
It's also in my signature, but here's the curent list I run:
I made this list with a single goal in mind: maximizing my chance of beating Leyline of sanctity. Lots of damage is non-targeting and the ones that aren't can either become removal (Lightning Bolt, Rift Bolt) or be sided-out and replaced accordingly (Lava spike, Bump in the night). My meta has always seen burn hate since 3-4 other players have burn decks and that's why the sideboard is loaded with Tainted remedy and Destructive revelry to counter hate against me (I'm the only one playing black, other are Boros, naya or monored, and there's also this other guy playing gruul, but I think is closer to zoo). I wouldn't run three TR in a non-local meta, but it is quite good. Card saved my butt twice just yesterday in fact, one from a Batterskull and the other from several Jund burn hate card (Mostly Kitchen finks). Also I've already won games because people sided in Leyline just thinking "Oh he's burn, that's good against burn" and then I just proceed to still burn him to death. It's fun. I also yet to lose a match to tron, which really fills me with a special kind of joy.
That is basically the same burn we use, just optimise mana base for Tribal flames, while cut fastlands but keep 3 mountains if we need to preserve life.
20 lands, I put in every shocklands that produces red, and 12 fetches -it would be better to split 3/3/3 on Scalding tarn to avoid a random Pithing needle, but the price of Tarn is really high-. That allow us to play a quick 4 or 5 damages Tribal flames. Skullcrack might be not needed in maindeck, as it was the weakest card with Lightning helix of our pack. Helix is important on this deck especially due to possible 3 damages from lands, so I move the playset of Skullcrack in the sideboard.
It might also be possible to just move Helix to the sideboard and replace them by Bump in the night but I am not confident on that.
A last slot can be find by going 19 lands, cut one mountain, add one Bump or one Shard volley.
I do not know what cards other colors can bring for Burn, so if you would see a strong no-red card that can unfortunally not be played in our Boros Burn, please say it. If there is a Red elemental blast in Modern legal that hits black, it would be perfect. Or anything that can be really strong in Burn. Be spicy, guys
I was always interested in a deck that can put out 4-5 damage with Tribal flames. Red is pretty obvious that we keep the big hitters, white will bring Lightning helix and Boros Charm, black could give you Gonti's machinations for more life gain and green gives us access to Destructive revelry. Now three questions comes to my mind:
1) do we WANT to lose up to 9 life for Tribal flames to do 4-5 damage? Now I know we'd probably run Helix and machination to mitigate life loss from the Fetches/shocks, but it's still a lot of lost life. If we don't see any life gain we could be anywhere between 14/11 life with this process, and that's not taking into account enemy interaction. It also mean we don't want to cast Tribal flames before turn 3, and that's IF we get to three lands by then. We could let shocks enter tapped to prevent some life loss, but aside for maybe the third and probably the fourth, we want lands to enter untapped so that's not really an option.
2) Is there any other blue card that justify running a Steam vents? (Only one I'm thinking of is Electrolyze and, well...) I mean, that seem nitpicky at first, but is there a reason other than +1 Damage Tribal flames? Because if there is any Good blue burn cards, what do we cut? we already need to cut stuff for Tribal flames, Lightning HelixGonti's machinations and since we're in those colors already, we're probably gonna pick the cream of the crops each color has to offer and it doesn't leave much space. On the other side, if there is no blue cards worth running we're losing 1 to 3 life for 1 damage and a fourth land. I'd personally go without the Blue land, but that leaves us with a 4 damageTribal flames. Still pretty good, another playset of Boros charm is nothing to scoff at.
3)Do we want four land on the battlefield? Maybe it's my 18-19 land manabase habits speaking, but I'm very comfortable being stuck at 2-3 lands while I consider myself manaflood with any more.
Will all these "complaints", it's still something worht a try. If I were to give it a go, I'd run a list close to this:
I'd probably cut a mountain for an extra burn, but don't know what exactly. I'd also avoid running Shard volley as we don't want to sac shocks to it. Plus, being 4-color does leave lots of candidate open for an extra 1-CMC 3-Damage spell.
Now that I think about it, if we are to lose a lot of life running Tribal falmes, maybe we ought to embrace that loss of life and try running Death's shadow? Round up the deck with a couple of Street wraith bringing us to Charm and tribal more often? Maybe try Claim // Fame?
Dunno, straying a bit from burn here, but it's just a thought...
Oh boy, I'm gonna shill this card SUPER hard. I've actually been testing the card along with a varying numbers of Molten rain for the past three weeks and it's range from "meh" to "Pretty good". I've personally fell in love with it for the following reasons:
1) It synergise well with Eidolon of the great revel and if you're on the play it's even better.
2) It can potentially lock a color down, even if just temporarily.
3.1) Player's like to be on curve and some people have pretty thight manabases. This card punish them if they decide tempo is more important then life points.
3.2) I've ran into scenarios where people just put the land aside because they did no want to take the 2+ damage. while a card not dealing damage is not what we'd want to run, it slowed them down a lot, sometime more than 1 turn.
4) It passes over Leyline of sanctity, which is a big positive in my book.
5) Really punish mana-short/mana-screw opponents hard.
It's also pretty fantastic against tron, but that goes without saying. I wouldn't force anyone to play a full playset in the main like I do, but I'd definitely advocate to try them instead of the molten rain if you're in black, even if just in the side.
I guess this question is already asked, but to echo with your so detailed statistics I thank you, what do you think about include 4 Atarka's command main deck, right now -or all the time in fact ?
atarka's command is a better skullcrack (There I said it). It passes over leyline and has potential for more damage with the mode that pumps creatures. With that being said, it all depend on wether you want to splash green for it or not. If you're paying 2-3 more life just to play this card I'd say don't and just keep playing skullcrack. That 2-3 life will not matter in most match-ups, but in the mirror or against aggro, it will matter a lot. However, if you're already splashing green for Destructive revelry, I'd say do it.
OH! There's also this neat thing you can do with skullcrack that you can't do with Atarka's command where if your opponent has a Kor firewalker you can try to bait him to block one of your creature to then cast the skullcrack and turn off the damage prevention their pro-red usually gives, killing the firewalker in the process. it doesn't happen often, but it's a very satisfying feeling when it does.
So, one of my pals made a shrine deck for when we do kitchen table magic with friends. The deck is slo-o-ow and he asked me to help him fix that. He initially had a Mirror gallery build, but we figured we had to drop (Maybe?) that approach for a faster deck.
We brainstormed together and looked at a couple decklist and figured the three best way to go about it is either cheat with mana, go pillowfort or take an "Enchantment matters" approach. It also not a deck he wants to spend a million dollars on lands. As much as a fetch+shockland manabase would be ideal, it's simply not happening here, so there's also that.
--birds of paradise, Sylvan caryatid--
Having access to mana of any color is very important for shrine playability and ramp. It's the alternative to having an expesive landbase we found. OG Birds and caryatid are the best ones we found so far.
--Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground--
Enchantment ramp can matter if we go with an "enchantment matters" approach, plus it's rare to see enchantment hate. Those two seemed like the best ones so far, even if Utopia Sprawl is limited to forest.
--Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr--
Untaping land is a bit lackluster by itself, but untaping a land enchanted with Utopia Sprawl or Fertile Ground can lead to pretty big mana quick.
UPKEEP SYNERGIES
--Paradox Haze--
Additional upkeep means we double the value of each shrine. It also made us consider Suspend as a support/side mechanic, especially for Lotus bloom which is good for dropping a big shrine early.
--Savor the moment--
Kind of similar to Paradox Haze, but for one turn. While we skip the untap step, we still get the upkeep for shrine effects, draw a card and drop a land for that extra turn. It's two blue thought. Probably gonna max-out on Haze before playing this.
ENCHANTMENT MATTERS
--Herald of the Pantheon--
Cost reducer for shrines along with minimal lifegain on a 2/2 body.
--Cloud key--
To reduce cost of enchantment too.
--Kruphix's insight--
A very decent tutor for enchantments. It won't always get three cards, but can easily net two. Made us consider a more enchantment focused build.
--Enduring Ideal--
Drop a Shrine each upkeep from the deck, one more for each Paradox haze. It's expensive, but it could be a great endgame card if we go deep into enchantment, and especially if we keep Mirror gallery around.
--Oblivion ring, Detention sphere, Cast out--
Great catch-all answers in enchantment form. Not sure we want to go that route, but one or two of any of those can't be wrong.
--Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety--
Classic Pillowfort cards. Slows down aggro considerably. Sphere of Safety as the potential to lock out players from attacking us entirely.
--Porphyry Nodes--
If we don't go the mana dork route, This card would be a great way to down creature aggression as we're likely to not play a lot of other creature. It goes very well with Paradox Haze, but not so much with the green shrine...
--Greater Auramancy--
Protects all shrine from targeted removal. Don't think it's necessary, but we know it exist if it becomes necessary.
From what I've heard, both the fetchland/fetchless manabase are viable. I think the reason why people play the Fetchless build (Other than budget) is to keep the card scry to the bottom of the deck.
Also, stay away from the Sulfur falls. You're better off playing more basics than to play this.
Also a few weeks ago I ran I single hazoret and he was phenomenal all night. I mean phenomenal. When I play a singleton of something I usually take out 1 skullcrack or 1 searing blaze. I run a normal RWg list splashing DRev in side. Tap out on turn 4 to play Jace. Even if they bump him to five hazoret comes down and can kill him. Too cute? I’m seeing some lists run 1 hazoret like mardu and such. Haven’t seen it in burn yet. Maybe 1 in the side for control? In NYC the majority of players are control players. Always been like that
I also see a couple of aggro decks run Hazoret the fervent in some numbers. The potential damage she can dish is alluring (she also passes over Leyline of sanctity), but I think it's way out of our casting range as we shun even 3 CMC spell with few exceptions for the sideboard. Having this lone 4-drop with a mana base + spell line-up that consider 4 lands as flooding 95% of the time just seem awkward.
MisterMuffin21 -- You're running Baubles!? Didn't you used to hate Baubles? Like with a fiery passion?
Not at all. I actually think the card is great. Concentrates the key cards of a deck, can check your top to see if you fetch right away or not, can check your enemy's top to see if you hold your discard or not. It also help trigger revolt. Only downside is it makes for awkward starting hands.
My big gripes was only with the pricing. The card is not worth 50$ each. I paid like 35-40$ for a playset. ($$$Thanks store credit$$$)
It's an interesting build at any rate. With 9 disruption spells in your 75 (equivalent to nearly 10 if you think about it as a 56 card deck), and a strong graveyard hate package, I bet Storm players hate you haha.
Storm player actually make a good part of my meta. Deck is cheap and easy to build on a budget, which is why I built myself one. Wanted to see how the deck operates and what its weakness was so I could side accordingly. That and the presence of burn is probably why I praise Leyline of sanctity as a sideboard option. there's also a lot of aggro deck, hence the full playset of push and path. it's probably gonna change soon with the unbans. Probably gonna switch two pushe for two Thoughtseize.
There's just one thing you must do. Swap out that freaking Shefet Dunes for Vault lol
Did you try the card? It's actually not that bad a land and actually helped me push for two games already. it's a counterspell-proof way to buff your team and it also can produces white, something Vault of the archangel can't do. Not bashing the card, Vault as been part of my list in the very recent pase, but Guost quarter is gonna be very important now that Tron is gonna get more play in the new meta and I don't want to play more than two non-white sources, especially in a 22 land build.
Granted, we do run a lot of lifegain to compensate. Enough that I personally don't think that mainboard Auriok Champion is necessary-- potentially reasonable-- sure. But not essential.
Thanks for the detailed responses by the way. And MisterMuffin21, I do know two players who run Legions alongside Bitterblossom, and apparently they do play well together.
I'll keep that feedback in mind. There's a high chance I'll give Bitterblossom another go next week. I also agree with your opinion on Auriok.
Actually, we usually either drop a sorin or close the game before we need to gain life back. Burn (and most aggro decks) are the only decks that makes running all this good stuff risky. Because of that I agree that running some form of life gain is can be a good idea depending on the meta.
The big question is what to cut for Auriok and how many copies to run. I think a removal and/or a discard could be a start. Perhaps drop Zealous persecution if you run it. I'm not sure if I'd want to cut anything else. Maybe a land if you're at 24.
Brutality is also not bad and could easily replace one or two of our usual discard package. The life gain is minimal and probably the last option you'll choose (It could potentially save your from a Worship lock), but it can also be a removal for smaller things and, from what I've tested, we almost always have an extra land and/or a Lingering souls to discard.
timely reinforcments is not my favorite side for burn (That honor goes to Leyline of sanctity), but it's good to be able to switch it with a bitter for game 2. Even if it gets the skullcrack, the chump blocker will save you lots of damage too.
Also... you're kind of right in assuming tarotplz, at least for me. I often run quite the painful package now that I thinkg about it
If what you really want is a faster clock, I'm not sure you want to keep Bedlam Reveler. In fact, I'm sceptical of the card being worth it in a burn deck. You can't cast him until 5 or 6 instants/sorceries passed by, which means even in a best case scenario he doesn't get out until turn 4. Every creature you cast will not help you in any way to cast the reveler and will leave him to clog your hand longer and sometime for the whole game. Furthermore, our opponent should already be at death's door by turn 4, which mean an additional burn spell could actually do a better job than him.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like it's a fantastic card. But it's too slow for burn. You can't be part burn/part Mardu Pyromancer. You have to commit to one or the other, and if you want to commit to burn, I feel like Bedlam reveler has to be cut.
The other one I don't feel like it should be here is lavaclaw reaches. Not only is this a land that enters tapped, but you need three other land just for it to be a 2/2 creature. It's too slow, and it slows your other plays, and speed is close to everything important in burn. In fact, you'll win/Lose most of your game before even reaching a fourth land.
Another thing is red mana is of upmost importance in burn. Basic nonmountains and shocks without Red (glaring at Overgrown tomb here) are usually a big no-no and I'd recomment just running more fetches/Stomping ground/Blood crypt instead.
As for the sideboard, I don't think collective brutality is that great in burn either. I went against the recommendations made to me and gave it a try in my rakdos burn, but it's not that great in burn. The primer actually puts it bluntly but truthfully, its usually a 2 damage Lightning helix, and that's not good. You rarely want to use the other modes without escalating (Aside from killing Kor Firewalker) and escalating means discarding cards, and aside from extra land (Which we don't have a lot, like 1 MAX), I don't want to discard anything. If what you really want is something to kill the Kor firewalker, look at Fatal push, Reality hemorrhage and Pyrite spellbomb instead.
Again, great card, just not the right deck for it. Then again, with Bedlam reveler it's pretty good, but now we'd be running two cards in a deck that don't really want either.
Just my two cents. Rest of the deck seem pretty solid. Really dig the Kolaghan's command & Blackcleave cliffs. Actually wish I got myself a couple of those before the price spike
One other thing I'll point is if you already splash green for Destructive revelry, go for a full playset and don't split 2/2 with Smash to smithereens. Losing 1 damage to be ablet o deal with enchantments is more than worth it. If you're already at MAX DR and need more artifact hate, then you can play StS in addition, but I think it's overkill at this point. Again, if you meta calls for that much artifact hate, be my guest.Definitely agree there. Happy to help. If I didn't feel like there's something to do with this card, I wouldn't have jumped on the topic in the first place. Wish you luck
*Check prices* And dirt cheap!
It's a bit slow at CMC3 though... maybe one or two could make it?
Hmmm... that card will definitely stay in the back of my mind for a while.
Let's say you drop an Eidolon of the Great revel turn 2 and it survives, then you drop a contaminated ground turn 3 (Or vice-versa). You've now put your opponent in a pretty awkward spot until he reaches 5 lands, if he's 3 land or below, he's likely to take damage from either eidolon or CG, maybe even both. Sometime that situation will stay like that for a couple turn since most deck in modern not only like to be on curve, but have a lot of cheap spells to cast. At 4 lands he'll have to decide wether he keeps casting small spells and get punished by eidolon, or cast his 4-drop and lose 2 from CG.It's also in my signature, but here's the curent list I run:
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
Enchantment
4 Contaminated Ground
4 Gonti's Machinations
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Land
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
4 Searing Blood
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorcery
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Molten Rain
1 Harsh Mentor
3 Tainted Remedy
1 Stomping Ground
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Dragon's Claw
4 Destructive Revelry
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Molten Rain
I made this list with a single goal in mind: maximizing my chance of beating Leyline of sanctity. Lots of damage is non-targeting and the ones that aren't can either become removal (Lightning Bolt, Rift Bolt) or be sided-out and replaced accordingly (Lava spike, Bump in the night). My meta has always seen burn hate since 3-4 other players have burn decks and that's why the sideboard is loaded with Tainted remedy and Destructive revelry to counter hate against me (I'm the only one playing black, other are Boros, naya or monored, and there's also this other guy playing gruul, but I think is closer to zoo). I wouldn't run three TR in a non-local meta, but it is quite good. Card saved my butt twice just yesterday in fact, one from a Batterskull and the other from several Jund burn hate card (Mostly Kitchen finks). Also I've already won games because people sided in Leyline just thinking "Oh he's burn, that's good against burn" and then I just proceed to still burn him to death. It's fun. I also yet to lose a match to tron, which really fills me with a special kind of joy.
1) do we WANT to lose up to 9 life for Tribal flames to do 4-5 damage? Now I know we'd probably run Helix and machination to mitigate life loss from the Fetches/shocks, but it's still a lot of lost life. If we don't see any life gain we could be anywhere between 14/11 life with this process, and that's not taking into account enemy interaction. It also mean we don't want to cast Tribal flames before turn 3, and that's IF we get to three lands by then. We could let shocks enter tapped to prevent some life loss, but aside for maybe the third and probably the fourth, we want lands to enter untapped so that's not really an option.
2) Is there any other blue card that justify running a Steam vents? (Only one I'm thinking of is Electrolyze and, well...) I mean, that seem nitpicky at first, but is there a reason other than +1 Damage Tribal flames? Because if there is any Good blue burn cards, what do we cut? we already need to cut stuff for Tribal flames, Lightning Helix Gonti's machinations and since we're in those colors already, we're probably gonna pick the cream of the crops each color has to offer and it doesn't leave much space. On the other side, if there is no blue cards worth running we're losing 1 to 3 life for 1 damage and a fourth land. I'd personally go without the Blue land, but that leaves us with a 4 damageTribal flames. Still pretty good, another playset of Boros charm is nothing to scoff at.
3)Do we want four land on the battlefield? Maybe it's my 18-19 land manabase habits speaking, but I'm very comfortable being stuck at 2-3 lands while I consider myself manaflood with any more.
Will all these "complaints", it's still something worht a try. If I were to give it a go, I'd run a list close to this:
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Goblin guide
4x Monastery swiftspear
4x Eidolon of the great revel
4x Lightning Helix
4x Boros Charm
4x gonti's machinations
4x Tribal Flames
4x Mountain
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
4x Arid Mesa
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Path to exile
2x Dragon's claw
1x Deflecing Palm
4x Destructive Revelry
4x Searing Blaze
2x Atarka's Command
Now that I think about it, if we are to lose a lot of life running Tribal falmes, maybe we ought to embrace that loss of life and try running Death's shadow? Round up the deck with a couple of Street wraith bringing us to Charm and tribal more often? Maybe try Claim // Fame?
Dunno, straying a bit from burn here, but it's just a thought...
Oh boy, I'm gonna shill this card SUPER hard. I've actually been testing the card along with a varying numbers of Molten rain for the past three weeks and it's range from "meh" to "Pretty good". I've personally fell in love with it for the following reasons:
1) It synergise well with Eidolon of the great revel and if you're on the play it's even better.
2) It can potentially lock a color down, even if just temporarily.
3.1) Player's like to be on curve and some people have pretty thight manabases. This card punish them if they decide tempo is more important then life points.
3.2) I've ran into scenarios where people just put the land aside because they did no want to take the 2+ damage. while a card not dealing damage is not what we'd want to run, it slowed them down a lot, sometime more than 1 turn.
4) It passes over Leyline of sanctity, which is a big positive in my book.
5) Really punish mana-short/mana-screw opponents hard.
It's also pretty fantastic against tron, but that goes without saying. I wouldn't force anyone to play a full playset in the main like I do, but I'd definitely advocate to try them instead of the molten rain if you're in black, even if just in the side.
OH! There's also this neat thing you can do with skullcrack that you can't do with Atarka's command where if your opponent has a Kor firewalker you can try to bait him to block one of your creature to then cast the skullcrack and turn off the damage prevention their pro-red usually gives, killing the firewalker in the process. it doesn't happen often, but it's a very satisfying feeling when it does.
We brainstormed together and looked at a couple decklist and figured the three best way to go about it is either cheat with mana, go pillowfort or take an "Enchantment matters" approach. It also not a deck he wants to spend a million dollars on lands. As much as a fetch+shockland manabase would be ideal, it's simply not happening here, so there's also that.
Shrines for reference:
Honden of Cleansing Fire
Honden of Infinite Rage
Honden of Life's Web
Honden of Night's Reach
Honden of Seeing Winds
Here are a couple of cards we considered so far:
MANA RAMP
--birds of paradise, Sylvan caryatid--
Having access to mana of any color is very important for shrine playability and ramp. It's the alternative to having an expesive landbase we found. OG Birds and caryatid are the best ones we found so far.
--Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground--
Enchantment ramp can matter if we go with an "enchantment matters" approach, plus it's rare to see enchantment hate. Those two seemed like the best ones so far, even if Utopia Sprawl is limited to forest.
--Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr--
Untaping land is a bit lackluster by itself, but untaping a land enchanted with Utopia Sprawl or Fertile Ground can lead to pretty big mana quick.
UPKEEP SYNERGIES
--Paradox Haze--
Additional upkeep means we double the value of each shrine. It also made us consider Suspend as a support/side mechanic, especially for Lotus bloom which is good for dropping a big shrine early.
--Savor the moment--
Kind of similar to Paradox Haze, but for one turn. While we skip the untap step, we still get the upkeep for shrine effects, draw a card and drop a land for that extra turn. It's two blue thought. Probably gonna max-out on Haze before playing this.
ENCHANTMENT MATTERS
--Herald of the Pantheon--
Cost reducer for shrines along with minimal lifegain on a 2/2 body.
--Cloud key--
To reduce cost of enchantment too.
--Kruphix's insight--
A very decent tutor for enchantments. It won't always get three cards, but can easily net two. Made us consider a more enchantment focused build.
--Enduring Ideal--
Drop a Shrine each upkeep from the deck, one more for each Paradox haze. It's expensive, but it could be a great endgame card if we go deep into enchantment, and especially if we keep Mirror gallery around.
--Oblivion ring, Detention sphere, Cast out--
Great catch-all answers in enchantment form. Not sure we want to go that route, but one or two of any of those can't be wrong.
--Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety--
Classic Pillowfort cards. Slows down aggro considerably. Sphere of Safety as the potential to lock out players from attacking us entirely.
--Porphyry Nodes--
If we don't go the mana dork route, This card would be a great way to down creature aggression as we're likely to not play a lot of other creature. It goes very well with Paradox Haze, but not so much with the green shrine...
--Greater Auramancy--
Protects all shrine from targeted removal. Don't think it's necessary, but we know it exist if it becomes necessary.
Here's a decklist I've come up with so far:
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 City of Brass
2 Plains
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
9 Forest
4 Arbor Elf
4 Herald of the Pantheon
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Fertile Ground
Shrines (9)
2 Honden of Infinite Rage
2 Honden of Cleansing Fire
2 Honden of Life's Web
2 Honden of Night's Reach
1 Honden of Seeing Winds
4 Paradox Haze
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Cast Out
2 Sphere of Safety
Artifact (1)
1 Mirror Gallery
Sorcery (4)
1 Enduring Ideal
3 Kruphix's Insight
I use Red/Blue dices for my mana.
Also, stay away from the Sulfur falls. You're better off playing more basics than to play this.
Turn 1) Play a forest or Stomping ground, cast Arbor Elf, pass
Turn 2) Assuming the elf lives, play a forest or Stomping ground, tap one land to enchant the untapped one with Utopia sprawl naming red, tap the enchanted land for two mana, untap it with the ability of Arbor elf, tap the land again. You now have four mana to drop a Bloodbraid elf, a Huntmaster of the fells or worst case scenario for us an Obstinate Baloth. Another worst case scenario is BBE cascading into Kitchen Finks.
Moral of the story? BOLT THE F**KING BIRD!!!
Or elf in this case, but there's this saying tha goes... oh whatever...
My big gripes was only with the pricing. The card is not worth 50$ each. I paid like 35-40$ for a playset. ($$$Thanks store credit$$$)Storm player actually make a good part of my meta. Deck is cheap and easy to build on a budget, which is why I built myself one. Wanted to see how the deck operates and what its weakness was so I could side accordingly. That and the presence of burn is probably why I praise Leyline of sanctity as a sideboard option. there's also a lot of aggro deck, hence the full playset of push and path. it's probably gonna change soon with the unbans. Probably gonna switch two pushe for two Thoughtseize.Did you try the card? It's actually not that bad a land and actually helped me push for two games already. it's a counterspell-proof way to buff your team and it also can produces white, something Vault of the archangel can't do. Not bashing the card, Vault as been part of my list in the very recent pase, but Guost quarter is gonna be very important now that Tron is gonna get more play in the new meta and I don't want to play more than two non-white sources, especially in a 22 land build.
Actually, we usually either drop a sorin or close the game before we need to gain life back. Burn (and most aggro decks) are the only decks that makes running all this good stuff risky. Because of that I agree that running some form of life gain is can be a good idea depending on the meta.
The big question is what to cut for Auriok and how many copies to run. I think a removal and/or a discard could be a start. Perhaps drop Zealous persecution if you run it. I'm not sure if I'd want to cut anything else. Maybe a land if you're at 24.
Brutality is also not bad and could easily replace one or two of our usual discard package. The life gain is minimal and probably the last option you'll choose (It could potentially save your from a Worship lock), but it can also be a removal for smaller things and, from what I've tested, we almost always have an extra land and/or a Lingering souls to discard.
I've also been testing Legion's landing and it's pretty good if you run the Raise the alarm playset. Not sure if it's gonna be the case in a Bitterblossom shell.
timely reinforcments is not my favorite side for burn (That honor goes to Leyline of sanctity), but it's good to be able to switch it with a bitter for game 2. Even if it gets the skullcrack, the chump blocker will save you lots of damage too.
Also... you're kind of right in assuming tarotplz, at least for me. I often run quite the painful package now that I thinkg about it