Why use the parfait engine at all if you are going to ignore it with a card like knight of the wild orchid? The whole draw to the parfait engine is that you can either play “low resources” so the engine converts lands into threats, creatures usually in that case, or you play control so that white has the best card advantage engine to negate the early 1:1 plays that would be required to get to the late game.
The original Buehler/Finkel lists ran Tithe to supplement Land Tax. In the original lists, Tithe was a 1 shot Tax to fuel Scroll Rack (assuming you don't play the lands you search.) I prefer Knight b/c unlike Tithe, I can equip Knight. Also as I explained to Zero1, you can always "fail to find" and it's not a big deal.
I view Knight of the White Orchid as a 2/2 first strike w/a potential upside, not an additional land slot w/a body attached.
Reading teeg helped beat a kaldra also just creates more questions as that implies that the player wasn’t playing stoneforge mystic and thus the “results” you’re giving are very skewed.
I'll be the first to admit i'm no judge if my "results" are "very skewed." My last report was the second legacy tourney I've played in years and my Death and Taxes opponent packed hate cards that weren't optimal vs me.
shadow creatures, or am I getting to old for this game? Offcourse the hawk can be a good finisher too. Anyhow, hi all (first post here on MTG Salvation), what you guys think
I think shadow creatures were optimal in '97 but outdated in '23.
Squadron Hawk is:
-expendable card advantage (great vs black sacrifice effects)
-a shuffle for your deck (should you use Scroll Rack but Land Tax won't trigger)
-a blocker (I've had combat where blocking w/equipped Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull happened)
is there some reason for knight of the white orchid?
-Knight of the White Orchid adds redundancy to the Land Tax effect. Common knowledge dictates that 4 copies of a card isn't consistent enough. You want 6-8 typically.
-The redundancy helps justify choosing to play second/draw first, since you mitigate the loss of tempo.
-Knight of the White Orchid can fetch dual lands, unlike Land Tax.
-I'd prefer having another creature to equip than Tithe.
-Mox Diamond helps keep your land count low.
-You can always fail to find.
I ran my common/uncommon list from post #1.
We had 15 minutes until closing so idgaf.
Jhoira pegged me (did I just say that?) as the bigger threat, so Jhoira targeted me from start to finish. Jhoira completely ignored Tiamat so as you can guess, Tiamat won (as underdogs usually do when left alone in multiplayer.)
I cast Experimental Augury and proliferated a beneficial counter on one of Tiamat's dragons.
I asked an onlooker if Tiamat would get any bonuses from dealing combat dmg to me (Tiamat really went overkill.)
-He replied, "she does" so "I concede before combat dmg!" No one thought that play was legal, LOL.
Recap:
-Turn 1 Ragavan, followed by turn 3 Lantern of Insight, told me who to attack via top deck.
-Funniest moment of the match happened on my turn 2 when I waited for Trostani to finish his Enlightened Tutor (he passed turn), then I Ragavan-cast his Sylvan Library he just finished tutoring for!
-Unblockable Ragavan provided immense card advantage. And thanks to Lantern of Insight, I always chose the best spells from my 3 opponents.
-My six 3+ dmg board wipes were consistently constant (there were numerous 'each player draws x cards' from Xyris.)
-Ruination seemed to dampen spirits. Sorry for the bad feels but Ruination is balanced b/c it punishes greedy mana bases. If you don't like Ruination or Blood Moon (also in my deck), consider running more basics or going mono. 60-card constructed decks have always kept mana denial in mind when deck building.
-I maintained dominance from turn 1 all the way until the surprise finish. Trostani cast March of the Multitudes during Xyris' end step just before his turn. He already had token buff anthems in play and cast Craterhoof Behemoth to attack both of us & steal the win! GG
Trostani (1st) noted, "This is the most controlling red deck i've ever seen!"
-True that, I don't even run Lightning Bolt!
-All my board wipes (except Cave-In) deal 3+ dmg.
-All my targeted removal (Skred varies but realistically...) deal 4+ dmg.
-I figure, 'Why let ppl play around Lightning Bolt?' And this was relevant b/c Ellivere had a couple of 4-toughness creatures in play at one point.
Recap:
-Krenko started out by announcing he was a "pacifist."
-Edgar drew first blood by stealing Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin from Krenko and it_was_on!
-My board developed slowly so I took an early hazing, then got ignored.
-Low key, I dropped a Necropotence and Jet Medallion. Then I passed turn.
-Turn after, I dropped many Rat Colony (remember Necropotence?)
-Krenko won his war vs Edgar.
-My turn, I dropped Marrow-Gnawer and swung at Krenko for 50 fear dmg.
-Eriette bit the dust next turn.
Landed turn 2 Dryad Greenseeker. Dryad Greenseeker luckily had an almost 50% blind hit/miss ratio.
Killed Lagomos. Lagomos got mana-screwed on 1 land.
Killian killed Cormela via Rogue's Passage general dmg.
Killian relied on creature auras so my Waterfront Bouncer did his job.
Match 2 goes to me. But only match 1 affected our EDH scoresheet.
Decklist on moxfield.com
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Gs8HHN-Xg0-GjnIUDJFUgw
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spellskite
(28) Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Consider
4 Force of Negation
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Splinter Twin
5 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Mire
1 Mountain
4 Submerge
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Blood Moon
3 Null Rod
1 Swan Song
Round 1 vs Mono-Blue Tempo, 0-2.
SB: +1 Swan Song, -1 Spellskite.
He out-tempo'd me by using a fast clock, backed up by counter spells.
Round 2 vs Green-White Depths, 2-1.
SB: +4 Submerge, +3 Blood Moon, +1 Swan Song. -4 Force of Negation, -4 Grim Lavamancer.
Game 1: I didn't play around Wasteland and that cost me.
Game 2: I secured 2 Blood Moon +2 Spellskite to protect them.
Game 3: I resolved early Deceiver Exarch + Splinter Twin.
Round 3 vs Lands, 1-2.
SB: +3 Blood Moon, +3 Null Rod. -4 Spellskite, -2 Grim Lavamancer.
Game 1: His 2 Urza's Saga constructs killed me.
Game 2: Twin combo did it's thing. Earlier, he added a charge counter to his Blast Zone in response to Blood Moon. That was unintuitive to me b/c Blood Moon removes all counters off Dark Depths but apparently, it's different for Blast Zone?
Game 3: He Force of Vigor'd my Blood Moon w/Dark Depths in play, Moon removing all Depth counters and me dying to a 20/20.
Afterwords, he gave me SB advice:
-Submerge would've been good vs his Dark Depths tokens.
-Surgical Extraction would've been good vs his Life from the Loam. Tbf, I never saw his Life from the Loam.
-Blood Moon is the right call in most situations.
-Null Rod didn't help me much.
New SB:
3 Blood Moon
3 Null Rod
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Swan Song (synergy w/Grim Lavamancer)
Odds and Ends:
-When questioned about Crucible of Worlds, he explained he prefers Life from the Loam to further his game plan (unless you can recur Wasteland.)
-My new SB plan would be: +3 Blood Moon, +3 Submerge, +3 Surgical Extraction. -4 Grim Lavamancer, -4 Spellskite, -1 Force of Negation.
-Going 1-2, I don't think this deck has much potential. I'm just stoked I finally got around to playing it (I first posted this list Jul 29, 2022, almost 2 years ago!)
I use Knight of the White Orchid to supplement Land Tax. If I don't have an active Land Tax, I can fall back on Knight of the White Orchid to bring me up to speed. If I am lucky enough to have one of my four Mox Diamond, it's quite easy to Knight/Tax.
The original Buehler/Finkel lists ran Tithe to supplement Land Tax. In the original lists, Tithe was a 1 shot Tax to fuel Scroll Rack (assuming you don't play the lands you search.) I prefer Knight b/c unlike Tithe, I can equip Knight. Also as I explained to Zero1, you can always "fail to find" and it's not a big deal.
I view Knight of the White Orchid as a 2/2 first strike w/a potential upside, not an additional land slot w/a body attached.
Reading teeg helped beat a kaldra also just creates more questions as that implies that the player wasn’t playing stoneforge mystic and thus the “results” you’re giving are very skewed.
The Kaldra player ran Stoneforge Mystic. I just happen to run 4 Swords to Plowshares and 4 Path to Exile, forcing him to attempt to hard cast it.
I'll be the first to admit i'm no judge if my "results" are "very skewed." My last report was the second legacy tourney I've played in years and my Death and Taxes opponent packed hate cards that weren't optimal vs me.
8 players, 3 rounds.
1-1-1 record. 4th place.
Decklist on moxfield.com
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2DDpVL2gNUC78D8UC-EvOw
*Credit to Zero1. Zero1 made me realize Knight of the White Orchid has Diminishing Returns in multiples.
You want 1 Knight of the White Orchid early but only 1.
3 Knight of the White Orchid swap out w/3 Gaddock Teeg conveniently.
Round 1 vs Bant Infect. 2-1
SB: +4 Oust, +4 Spellskite. -4 Qasali Pridemage, -3 Knight of the White Orchid, 1 Cathar Commando.
-Game 1: I wasted removal on a Glistener Elf after my Mother of Runes lost summoning sickness. I died to Blighted Agent.
-Game 2: He got mana flooded.
-Game 3: He mulled to 3.
Round 2 vs Death and Taxes, 1-1-1
SB game 2: +3 Gaddock Teeg. -3 Knight of the White Orchid.
SB game 3: +3 Knight of the White Orchid, -3 Gaddock Teeg.
-I played first in game 2 and played second in game 3.
-Gaddock Teeg was good vs his Kaldra Compleat.
-We went to a time limit draw but he was about to win.
Round 3 vs Grixis Delver, 1-2
SB game 2: +4 Sanctifier en-Vec, +3 Gaddock Teeg. -4 Qusali Pridemage, -3 Knight of the White Orchid.
SB game 3: +3 Knight of the White Orchid, -3 Gaddock Teeg.
-Like in round 2, 3 Knight of the White Orchid left on the play and returned on the draw.
-Gaddock Teeg over Knight of the White Orchid vs Force of Will.
Parting Note: Sideboard was a definite improvement over 12/23/23's list, as I 'boarded in every card.
4 player pods, 4 rounds, cut to top 4.
Round 1, tied for 2nd. 0-1.
Round 2, tied for 2nd. 0-1.
End Result, 0-2 drop.
Decklist on moxfield.com
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/ESZoFi7S0kiM1GtRyMhksA
I plan to run today's I Win Games' 01/14/24 list at Other Realms' 01/26/24 tourney. Any suggestions?
Credit to Zombie Shakespeare and Pokerkingdave for pointing me in the right direction!
ftfy
I think shadow creatures were optimal in '97 but outdated in '23.
Squadron Hawk is:
-expendable card advantage (great vs black sacrifice effects)
-a shuffle for your deck (should you use Scroll Rack but Land Tax won't trigger)
-a blocker (I've had combat where blocking w/equipped Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull happened)
-Knight of the White Orchid adds redundancy to the Land Tax effect. Common knowledge dictates that 4 copies of a card isn't consistent enough. You want 6-8 typically.
-The redundancy helps justify choosing to play second/draw first, since you mitigate the loss of tempo.
-Knight of the White Orchid can fetch dual lands, unlike Land Tax.
-I'd prefer having another creature to equip than Tithe.
-Mox Diamond helps keep your land count low.
-You can always fail to find.
Enlightened Tutor costs 1 mana less, which is a big deal. You may not think so b/c I 'boarded out Mother of Runes for Sanctifier en-Vec but playing around Chalice of the Void is more so improvising than deck building.
8 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Savannah
(24) spells:
4 Land Tax
4 Mox Diamond
4 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Scroll Rack
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Batterskull
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Mother of Runes
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Oust
4 Sanctifier en-Vec
3 Containment Priest
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
Round 1 *bye*
Round 2 vs Red Chalice. 2-0.
SB: none.
Round 3 vs Black Chalice. 2-1.
Pre-match, we agreed to prize split.
SB: +4 Sanctifier en-Vec, -4 Mother of Runes.
-His sacrifice removal gets around Mother of Runes' pro: black.
-His Chalice of the Void for 1 would make Mother of Runes worthless as well.
The other 2 decks were:
-Simic Infect
-Blue Combo (didn't see much but he ran fast mana.)
In a room of 3 non-interactive decks, the 2 grindy decks made the finals. We'll see how the meta shifts next time.
Versus:
-Tiamat (1st)
-Jhoira, Ageless Innovator (2nd)
I ran my common/uncommon list from post #1.
We had 15 minutes until closing so idgaf.
Jhoira pegged me (did I just say that?) as the bigger threat, so Jhoira targeted me from start to finish. Jhoira completely ignored Tiamat so as you can guess, Tiamat won (as underdogs usually do when left alone in multiplayer.)
I cast Experimental Augury and proliferated a beneficial counter on one of Tiamat's dragons.
I asked an onlooker if Tiamat would get any bonuses from dealing combat dmg to me (Tiamat really went overkill.)
-He replied, "she does" so "I concede before combat dmg!" No one thought that play was legal, LOL.
Let no one say I don't know casual magic!
1 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
(40) mana:
31 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Crystal Vein
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Amber
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Sol Ring
1 War Room
(12) 1 drops:
1 Beamtown Beatstick
1 Bomat Courier
1 Cliffhaven Kitesail
1 Commander's Plate
1 Curse of Opulence
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Flame Slash
1 Lantern of Insight
1 Luxior, Giada's Gift
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skred
1 Sticky Fingers
1 Bloodthirsty Blade
1 Executioner's Hood
1 Lizard Blades
1 Prowler's Helm
1 Reckless Impulse
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Scroll Rack
1 Shrine of Burning Rage
1 Trailblazer's Boots
1 Treasure Map
1 Underworld Breach
1 Veteran Brawlers
1 Wild Magic Surge
1 Wrenn's Resolve
(14) 3 drops:
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Blood Moon
1 Chandra, Dressed to Kill
1 Chaos Warp
1 Curse of Hospitality
1 Guff Rewrites History
1 Jeska, Thrice Reborn
1 Jeska's Will
1 Light Up the Stage
1 Shiny Impetus
1 Slagstorm
1 Sweltering Suns
1 The Sound of Drums
1 Valakut Exploration
1 Chain Reaction
1 Chandra, Fire Artisan
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Experimental Frenzy
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Jaya, Fiery Negotiator
1 Koth, of the Hammer
1 Outpost Siege
1 Ruination
1 The Flux
1 Torbran, Thane of Red Fell
1 Vance's Blasting Cannons
1 Visions of Phyrexia
(5) x drops:
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Cave-In
1 Deflecting Swat
1 Mogg Salvage
1 Pyrokinesis
12/22/23 EDH. Pod of 4. 2nd place (tie.)
-Trostani, Selesnya's Voice (1st)
-Xyris, the Writhing Storm (2nd/tie)
-Ellivere of the Wild Court (4th)
Recap:
-Turn 1 Ragavan, followed by turn 3 Lantern of Insight, told me who to attack via top deck.
-Funniest moment of the match happened on my turn 2 when I waited for Trostani to finish his Enlightened Tutor (he passed turn), then I Ragavan-cast his Sylvan Library he just finished tutoring for!
-Unblockable Ragavan provided immense card advantage. And thanks to Lantern of Insight, I always chose the best spells from my 3 opponents.
-My six 3+ dmg board wipes were consistently constant (there were numerous 'each player draws x cards' from Xyris.)
-Ruination seemed to dampen spirits. Sorry for the bad feels but Ruination is balanced b/c it punishes greedy mana bases. If you don't like Ruination or Blood Moon (also in my deck), consider running more basics or going mono. 60-card constructed decks have always kept mana denial in mind when deck building.
-I maintained dominance from turn 1 all the way until the surprise finish. Trostani cast March of the Multitudes during Xyris' end step just before his turn. He already had token buff anthems in play and cast Craterhoof Behemoth to attack both of us & steal the win! GG
Trostani (1st) noted, "This is the most controlling red deck i've ever seen!"
-True that, I don't even run Lightning Bolt!
-All my board wipes (except Cave-In) deal 3+ dmg.
-All my targeted removal (Skred varies but realistically...) deal 4+ dmg.
-I figure, 'Why let ppl play around Lightning Bolt?' And this was relevant b/c Ellivere had a couple of 4-toughness creatures in play at one point.
Same list as post #1.
My 3 opponents ran:
-Eriette of the Charmed Apple (2nd)
-Krenko, Mob Boss (3rd)
-Edgar Markov (4th)
Recap:
-Krenko started out by announcing he was a "pacifist."
-Edgar drew first blood by stealing Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin from Krenko and it_was_on!
-My board developed slowly so I took an early hazing, then got ignored.
-Low key, I dropped a Necropotence and Jet Medallion. Then I passed turn.
-Turn after, I dropped many Rat Colony (remember Necropotence?)
-Krenko won his war vs Edgar.
-My turn, I dropped Marrow-Gnawer and swung at Krenko for 50 fear dmg.
-Eriette bit the dust next turn.
As with "Turbo Yuriko"
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/830699-turbo-yuriko
This was officially my 2nd match win w/Necro Rats.
Necro Rats now out of rotation so I can refine other decks.
Match 1 vs:
-Lagomos, Hand of Hatred (1st)
-Riven Turnbull (3rd)
-Killian, Ink Duelist (4th)
Killian got the early lead.
Lagomos and Turnbull double-teamed Killian.
After Killian died, Lagomos killed Turnbull then myself.
Match 2 vs:
-Killian, Ink Duelist (2nd)
-Cormela, Glamour Thief (3rd)
-Lagomos, Hand of Hatred (4th)
Landed turn 2 Dryad Greenseeker. Dryad Greenseeker luckily had an almost 50% blind hit/miss ratio.
Killed Lagomos. Lagomos got mana-screwed on 1 land.
Killian killed Cormela via Rogue's Passage general dmg.
Killian relied on creature auras so my Waterfront Bouncer did his job.
Match 2 goes to me. But only match 1 affected our EDH scoresheet.
Everything I've read online is underwhelming so far...
4 Chittering Rats
4 Cuombajj Witches
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thorn of the Black Rose
(23) Spells:
4 Chainer’s Edict
4 Defile
4 Night’s Whisper
4 Sign in Blood
4 Suffocating Fumes
3 Tendrils of Corruption
17 Swamp
4 Witch’s Cottage
4 Choking Sands
4 Icequake
4 Rancid Earth
3 Drain the Well
-11/24/23 Main Update: +1 Suffocating Fumes, -1 Tendrils of Corruption.
-Suffocating Fumes > Tendrils of Corruption vs Boggles/Elves/Infect.
-Fumes' cycling mechanic is also nice since my mana curve is kinda clunky.
Round 1 vs Boggles. 2-0.
SB: +4 Rancid Earth, -3 Tendrils of Corruption, -1 Defile.
If I get threshold, Rancid Earth is a board wipe, like Suffocating Fumes.
Round 2 vs Golem Tron. 1-2.
SB: +15 LD, -4 Chainer’s Edict, -4 Defile, -4 Suffocating Fumes, -3 Tendrils of Corruption.
Night’s Whisper > Phyrexian Rager in my build b/c I board in 12 LD spells @3 mana.
Round 3 vs UG Infect. 2-0.
SB: none.
Test vs UB Ninjas. 2-2.
SB: none.
1st place - Round 2 opponent.
2nd place - Mono Blue Ninjas.
3rd place - me.
4th-8th - ???
Decklist on moxfield.com
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wfGdl8j-SkSYZ1FpnyUXWA
Credit to Pokerkingdave for Diplomatic Escort.
Trinket Mage fetches: Cliffhaven Kitesail, Sensei's Divining Top, Sol Ring and Zephyr Boots.