Concerning Cavern of Souls, claiming they are at an all time low couldn´t be further from the truth. They actually reached their peak in price when Kaladesh came out. Now, with the reprint in Modern Masters 2017, we will definitely see a drop in price when people open more of them. I would wait for another 2 months at least. Prices should stabilze then an continue rising very slowly unless control gets really strong all of a sudden. (Actually what I´m doing.)
I also have a question: Do you guys manage to turn 3 kill somebody? If so, what lines of play have you taken and how much damage dealt? One line I see is playing multible Nettle Sentinel, Dwynen's Elite and a Heritage Druid into CoCo into 2 Shaman of the Pack. Another possibility is playing T1 Elivih Mystic into T2 Dwynen´s Elite, Heritage Druid, Elvish Archdruid into T3 Ezuri, pump with Archdruid and attack for 21. That´s the only time I turn 3 killed somebody. T4 is very consistent in the goldfish though.
I will definitely consider going back to 3 Chords in the 75 instead of 2 but with the inclusion of 3 Thoughtseize it's hard to find room. Card draw usually was more than enough with 3 Leads 3 Visionaries and 4 CoCo.
Syreal94s posts about thoughtseize helped and I believe this card gives GB Elves a reason to not splash white. LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR GUIDE!
In the Scapeshift matchup I hardly ever do 2 damage to myself unless I have thoughtseize but this card can destroy them. The problem was my opponent played 4cScapeshift with multible Supreme Verdicts and Angers and even bolts to slow me down. Seemed like a bad matchup.
Make it easy... look at the last 2-3 sites here and look at the primer.
It's hard to find newer lists of regular 8Whack and Atarka8Whack.
Also, the lists in the primer feel fairly outdated or even budget oriented with one list not including goblin guide which feels wrong.
The only thing I wonder about the stock lists in the primer is the Atarka8Whack list.
Do you guys think 3-4 BTEs are better or just 3-4 token generators like dragon fodder with atarkas command?
kari-zevs-expertise seeme excellent against midrange decks that have huge blockers like jund, death shadow, eldrazi or even company.
Also, Goblin Chieftain has helped a lot to close out games without gas.
So what about decks like Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Ad Nauseam and Valakut that dont't play or need fetchlands. Woudn't they just push most midrange decks and control decks out?
It would require lots of bans to balance this format but I like the idea of tribal decks getting stronger.
Are you sure Blood Moon is bad? It destroys manabases that are not prepared.
I like Devastating Summons as a 1 of and don´t want to cut it but I never want to see 2 obviously. I´m too chicken.
Goblin Piledriver is really great especially in combination with legion loyalist or with a bushwhacker for 4 mana, that´s why I play the full playset in the 75 and 19 mountains. I would play 18 lands in an atarka or gobots build though, but reaching 3 lands is important as it´s the only way to Surge Reckless Bushwhacker and sometimes evne 4 mana can be good to play Piledriver+Bushwhacker or Devastating Summons for 3.
Lightning Bolts sometimes have to go game 2/3 in favour of Artefact hate or other creatures but it´s still the best red spell and offers great reach.
Sometimes this deck runs out of gas really fast against slower decks and creature heavy matchups like Bant Company or Knightfall can be though. Thats were I like the constant buff Goblin Chieftain offers and I usually board in 2 Chieftains for a full playset. Might be too much but they have ben very good.
Mogg Fanatic is a though call as well. I play 2 main which is as low as I would go and 1 in the Sideboard along 2 Forked Bolt agaist dorks.
Do you think the Atarka build might work better includng Atarkas Command and BTE?
I recently lost to 2 E.E. followed up by a chalice on 1 drawing 5 1cmc spells in a row. But honestly I think the best you can do is boarding in artefact hate. 3x Smash to Smithereens should be enough. Goblin wardriver looks tasty though but I don´t know what to cut. Any suggestions?
I think the only numbers that should be changed are Devastating Summons (flex),Frenzied Goblin (flex), Mogg Fanatic, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Chieftain and Reckless Bushwhacker. The rest is set in stone but those numbers can be tweaked as well as the Sideboard.
Also, do you guys know what can be cut when sideboarding? Sometimes I want to have more lords or Piledrivers but I never know what to cut. Devastating Summons and Frenzied Goblin are often the first to go with some exceptions, Mogg fanatic if the opponent plays no creatures with thoughness 1. Also, sometimes Chieftain is too slow, but he can also be a powerhouse.
First of all, I really apreciate your work on this lovely and hyper agressive deck. Gobots is strong but I prefer regular 8 Whack and wanted to push some discussion about this version of Goblins. I have had some success with mono red goblins at various fnms but I sometimes struggle with sideboarding. Anyways, here is my current iteration of 8 Whack: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-02-17-goblins-8-whack/
I am open for questions and suggestions.
The last time I played, which was yesterday, my oponend was sure of winning until I played 2 Goblin Grenades for 10 damage to the face. Thats why I like this deck but creature decks like knightfall coco can be really though!
I have been following this thread for a year now and I would like to thank all of you to help me understand this beautiful deck and all of it´s varieties and choices. I have been playing a streight GB Version as it fits my playstyle perfectly. Anyways, I would like to get some help on my Sideboard as I sometimes struggle with boarding.
Here is my Decklist for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dark-elves-of-the-pack/
My meta consists of Abzan, Knightfall Company, Lantern Control, Multible Eldrazi decks, Tron, Scapeshift, Esper Control and some other brews that are mainly creature based. Overall the meta seems slow and light on boardwipes. I think the only bad matchups are Scapeshift which I don´t see very often and RG Tron. I am open for suggestions.
1. Any idea how to change the sideboard?
2. Lead the stampede is a great card bout playing 3 leads and 3 visionaries seems a lot. I can imagine going up to 19 lands or another mana dork in the main but it migth be just fine without Horizon Canopies.
3. How to board and use Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Revoker?
Im really glad Wizards of the Coast just ignores this forum. Some people here think Mtg Salvation should just do the ban list but at the same time there is so much BS going on here I don´t even know where to start. There is no such thing as consensus and it seems like most peope are just speculating without any testing or they just want to play with their favourite toys without actually giving anything about the health of the format. It´s hilarious but this discussion cannot be taken serious at all. There is a reason bans and unbans are not allowed to be discussed in other forums.
So I will just lean back now and continue watching you argue like little kids.
Isn't that banlist discussion everywhere, including most articles discussing bans/unbans? I haven't seen a single article about Modern bans/unbans in the last 1-2 months with any shred of testing, evidence, or numbers to back up its claims. I'll also say the banlist polls here are very level-headed, even if some vocal users are less so in the threads.
I agree. Modern is fun right now and I trust in WotC to help out blue control a little bit so that everybody can stop circlejerking over their Snapcaster Mage , sleeve them up and just play the game, doing so having tested all the consequences thoroughly. No bans/unbans is fine as well.
Im really glad Wizards of the Coast just ignores this forum. Some people here think Mtg Salvation should just do the ban list but at the same time there is so much BS going on here I don´t even know where to start. There is no such thing as consensus and it seems like most peope are just speculating without any testing or they just want to play with their favourite toys without actually giving anything about the health of the format. It´s hilarious but this discussion cannot be taken serious at all. There is a reason bans and unbans are not allowed to be discussed in other forums.
So I will just lean back now and continue watching you argue like little kids.
Just from testing turn 2 Merrow Reejery is another great start enabeling me to dump my hand turn 3 and 4. Turn 3 CoCo is also more than a dream with 7 Mana Dorks. The real problem I see is that Aether Vial is very resistant and harder to remove than mana dorks (Although wasting removal on Hierach/Follower might be bad when we have lords.) and it offers more interaction and plays at instant speed. Less answers in the main in general hurts and I sometimes miss Dismember and Spellpierce/Vapor Snag.
In a shell that tries to play CoCo Hierarch feels important and CoCo overall performed well, especially against midrange decks. I think some amount of mana acceleration is important for CoCo because playing more lands feels even worse for the game plan. The Gameplan is still the same and I don´t cut a lot of merfolk. More 2 drops and 3 drops instead of Master of Waves.
Coco is basically a creature slot as well but instead of tokens and a Tokenlord I get 1-2 Lords and 0-1 Utility Merfolk. It is very redundant when it resolves.
Otherwise I feel like other splashes have better SB options. W has Path and great hate, Red has Bolt and sniping creatures and black has hand disruption and push.
2 Harbinger against creatureless decks. 4 Spreading Seas against blue. 1 Kior´s Follower or Hierach vs decks without cheap removal. 1 Simic Charm in the flex slot.(Could go up to 2 spell felx slots.) 1-2 Vendillion Clique if they don´t have a combo or boardwipe. 2 Curse Catcher as they don´t have the biggest impact turn 3/4. 1 Land vs Path to Exile Decks. Matchups where Master is too slow are hard to tell. Without vial we need the explosiveness of turn 3 CoCo into 2 Lords. Maybe go down to 3 CoCo.
Additional Lords didn´t impress me either as CoCo usually finds 2 good targets with 12 Lords in the main. I will continue testing but I probably would go for the mono blue version for larger events. It feels so good as it is right now.
Different subject concerning classic fish, the best fish. I would like to know what colors to target with 4 Sea´s Claim in the SB. In the Naya Burn Matchup for instance. When do we go for White or Green. And what to take against Jund and Abzan? (Is it even worth it against abzan?)
I agree that green might not come close to the perfect machine the mono blue version is but I just want to explore this splash a little bit further. Deckbuilding is fun and maybe it will lead to an interesting version that fits well for certain metas and frankly I don´t believe I can add much to the mono blue version. Collected Company can be extremely powerfull because you can go threw a bunch of cards and take the two best creatures you find. Finding 2 Lords of Atlantis is powerful enough as they feel kind of underpriced at 2 cmc, especially when your only lord just got bolted. At the end of the day I´m just a curious deckbuilder liking the flavor of Skyfolk and trying out new things is important.
Concerning the sideboard, it´s really not finished at all as I can´t tell what cards benefit a UG list the most without further testing. What green cards do we really want in the SB? Infect is still a problem in my local meta though and melira can be found with coco. Fog is for the lolz. Also, I´m not sure about the exact numbers of Hierarchs and Kira´s Follower and I might even try out more than 12 lords by adding some Merfolk Sovereign. Another problem is Kiora´s Follower. Playing 20 lands is not enough to reliably hit 4 mana so there are 2 options: Adding more lands or adding mana dorks and Kiora´s Follower can enable slower hands similar to Aether Vial while also getting bigger. (It´s in the Harbinger/Tidebinder spot though which further reduces interaction.)
@rothgar13: Can you imagine a meta where UG is a better fit?
@Cowology: Hierarch is in the Vials spot so those interactions should still be fine. I didn´t like how Corbin compared them to Cursecatcher while playing 4 Cursecatcher in the main anyways. Not playing Coco sounds interesting though because of the Follower/Vial interaction.
@Giraffe: Not a lot of Dredge in my meta but 2 relics would be nice. SB is packed with ideas but again the deck is different so it needs further testing. I focused on game 1 for now.
My question is: What is the best UG Version of Merfolk possible. Also, thanks for the replies.
I also have a question: Do you guys manage to turn 3 kill somebody? If so, what lines of play have you taken and how much damage dealt? One line I see is playing multible Nettle Sentinel, Dwynen's Elite and a Heritage Druid into CoCo into 2 Shaman of the Pack. Another possibility is playing T1 Elivih Mystic into T2 Dwynen´s Elite, Heritage Druid, Elvish Archdruid into T3 Ezuri, pump with Archdruid and attack for 21. That´s the only time I turn 3 killed somebody. T4 is very consistent in the goldfish though.
Syreal94s posts about thoughtseize helped and I believe this card gives GB Elves a reason to not splash white. LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR GUIDE!
In the Scapeshift matchup I hardly ever do 2 damage to myself unless I have thoughtseize but this card can destroy them. The problem was my opponent played 4cScapeshift with multible Supreme Verdicts and Angers and even bolts to slow me down. Seemed like a bad matchup.
It's hard to find newer lists of regular 8Whack and Atarka8Whack.
Also, the lists in the primer feel fairly outdated or even budget oriented with one list not including goblin guide which feels wrong.
The only thing I wonder about the stock lists in the primer is the Atarka8Whack list.
Do you guys think 3-4 BTEs are better or just 3-4 token generators like dragon fodder with atarkas command?
kari-zevs-expertise seeme excellent against midrange decks that have huge blockers like jund, death shadow, eldrazi or even company.
Also, Goblin Chieftain has helped a lot to close out games without gas.
(Written on mobile.)
It would require lots of bans to balance this format but I like the idea of tribal decks getting stronger.
Also how can I put decklist on the bottom of every post lile some people here do?
I like Devastating Summons as a 1 of and don´t want to cut it but I never want to see 2 obviously. I´m too chicken.
Goblin Piledriver is really great especially in combination with legion loyalist or with a bushwhacker for 4 mana, that´s why I play the full playset in the 75 and 19 mountains. I would play 18 lands in an atarka or gobots build though, but reaching 3 lands is important as it´s the only way to Surge Reckless Bushwhacker and sometimes evne 4 mana can be good to play Piledriver+Bushwhacker or Devastating Summons for 3.
Lightning Bolts sometimes have to go game 2/3 in favour of Artefact hate or other creatures but it´s still the best red spell and offers great reach.
Sometimes this deck runs out of gas really fast against slower decks and creature heavy matchups like Bant Company or Knightfall can be though. Thats were I like the constant buff Goblin Chieftain offers and I usually board in 2 Chieftains for a full playset. Might be too much but they have ben very good.
Mogg Fanatic is a though call as well. I play 2 main which is as low as I would go and 1 in the Sideboard along 2 Forked Bolt agaist dorks.
Do you think the Atarka build might work better includng Atarkas Command and BTE?
I think the only numbers that should be changed are Devastating Summons (flex),Frenzied Goblin (flex), Mogg Fanatic, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Chieftain and Reckless Bushwhacker. The rest is set in stone but those numbers can be tweaked as well as the Sideboard.
Also, do you guys know what can be cut when sideboarding? Sometimes I want to have more lords or Piledrivers but I never know what to cut. Devastating Summons and Frenzied Goblin are often the first to go with some exceptions, Mogg fanatic if the opponent plays no creatures with thoughness 1. Also, sometimes Chieftain is too slow, but he can also be a powerhouse.
First of all, I really apreciate your work on this lovely and hyper agressive deck. Gobots is strong but I prefer regular 8 Whack and wanted to push some discussion about this version of Goblins. I have had some success with mono red goblins at various fnms but I sometimes struggle with sideboarding. Anyways, here is my current iteration of 8 Whack:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-02-17-goblins-8-whack/
I am open for questions and suggestions.
Additionally I have been working on a Gruul version of 8 Whack including Burning-Tree Emissary and Atarka's Command. I love the explosiveness and went down to 18 lands as BTE helps casting Reckless Bushwhacker, Atarka's Command and Goblin Piledriver:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gruul-8-whack/
The last time I played, which was yesterday, my oponend was sure of winning until I played 2 Goblin Grenades for 10 damage to the face. Thats why I like this deck but creature decks like knightfall coco can be really though!
I have been following this thread for a year now and I would like to thank all of you to help me understand this beautiful deck and all of it´s varieties and choices. I have been playing a streight GB Version as it fits my playstyle perfectly. Anyways, I would like to get some help on my Sideboard as I sometimes struggle with boarding.
Here is my Decklist for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dark-elves-of-the-pack/
My meta consists of Abzan, Knightfall Company, Lantern Control, Multible Eldrazi decks, Tron, Scapeshift, Esper Control and some other brews that are mainly creature based. Overall the meta seems slow and light on boardwipes. I think the only bad matchups are Scapeshift which I don´t see very often and RG Tron. I am open for suggestions.
1. Any idea how to change the sideboard?
2. Lead the stampede is a great card bout playing 3 leads and 3 visionaries seems a lot. I can imagine going up to 19 lands or another mana dork in the main but it migth be just fine without Horizon Canopies.
3. How to board and use Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Revoker?
I agree. Modern is fun right now and I trust in WotC to help out blue control a little bit so that everybody can stop circlejerking over their Snapcaster Mage , sleeve them up and just play the game, doing so having tested all the consequences thoroughly. No bans/unbans is fine as well.
So I will just lean back now and continue watching you argue like little kids.
In a shell that tries to play CoCo Hierarch feels important and CoCo overall performed well, especially against midrange decks. I think some amount of mana acceleration is important for CoCo because playing more lands feels even worse for the game plan. The Gameplan is still the same and I don´t cut a lot of merfolk. More 2 drops and 3 drops instead of Master of Waves.
Coco is basically a creature slot as well but instead of tokens and a Tokenlord I get 1-2 Lords and 0-1 Utility Merfolk. It is very redundant when it resolves.
Otherwise I feel like other splashes have better SB options. W has Path and great hate, Red has Bolt and sniping creatures and black has hand disruption and push.
Additional Lords didn´t impress me either as CoCo usually finds 2 good targets with 12 Lords in the main. I will continue testing but I probably would go for the mono blue version for larger events. It feels so good as it is right now.
Different subject concerning classic fish, the best fish. I would like to know what colors to target with 4 Sea´s Claim in the SB. In the Naya Burn Matchup for instance. When do we go for White or Green. And what to take against Jund and Abzan? (Is it even worth it against abzan?)
Concerning the sideboard, it´s really not finished at all as I can´t tell what cards benefit a UG list the most without further testing. What green cards do we really want in the SB? Infect is still a problem in my local meta though and melira can be found with coco. Fog is for the lolz. Also, I´m not sure about the exact numbers of Hierarchs and Kira´s Follower and I might even try out more than 12 lords by adding some Merfolk Sovereign. Another problem is Kiora´s Follower. Playing 20 lands is not enough to reliably hit 4 mana so there are 2 options: Adding more lands or adding mana dorks and Kiora´s Follower can enable slower hands similar to Aether Vial while also getting bigger. (It´s in the Harbinger/Tidebinder spot though which further reduces interaction.)
@rothgar13: Can you imagine a meta where UG is a better fit?
@Cowology: Hierarch is in the Vials spot so those interactions should still be fine. I didn´t like how Corbin compared them to Cursecatcher while playing 4 Cursecatcher in the main anyways. Not playing Coco sounds interesting though because of the Follower/Vial interaction.
@Giraffe: Not a lot of Dredge in my meta but 2 relics would be nice. SB is packed with ideas but again the deck is different so it needs further testing. I focused on game 1 for now.
My question is: What is the best UG Version of Merfolk possible. Also, thanks for the replies.