First, I am not anti control. I can play any type of magic you want to play.
The only way they have to balance Modern is bannings. Even if they unbanned all the cards combo would be the top dog and contol would be at the bottom of the heap.
Every card on the ban list NARROWS deck building. If you are in a certain color you have to play 'X' card. That goes for Jace to Blossom to MM. If MM was legal, it would HAVE to be played in every deck in Modern. Simply because of the speed of the format. The format is dictated by the 1 and 2 drops.
Like I said before, for the format to be considered successful the attendence numbers have to be up and TOs have to be making money. It doesnt matter what the meta really looks like. From past history of the game in different formats Wotc and Hasbro know a control heavy environment is not profitable. Look at what MM did to Legacy. They do not want that in Modern form the get go. Look what Caw-blade did to Standard. They dont want that to happen to Modern from the get go. They know an aggro heavy environment still sells to a point, Jund, but they cant let it get out of hand, Affinity winter.
I dont agree with everything Wotc is doing, but I am working with in the parameters Wotc has given me to work with in the format. I am willing to give them time and some mistakes. Its going to take time to create a format that feels different then Legacy yet runs a large card pool.
please stop trying to shoehorn the same strawman that you have been using in almost every post about unbanning cards. you don't need to unban every card. you don't even need to unban a lot of cards. you should however unban some cards to promote a healthy format.
Give artifact decks to much consistency
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Too powerful
Umezawa's Jitte
Stoneforge Mystic
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Combos that are too good
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hypergenesis
Skullclamp
everybody but me dislikes
sensei's divining top
sword of the meek
Could be considered for unbanning
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dread Return
Ponder
Preordain
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
dread return would bring up solar flare and possibly dredge, ponder and preordain shouldn't even be on this list (at least make one available), chrome mox would elevate tempo decks and control decks slightly, most combo decks need all of their cards in this format to win. valakut combos don't kill before the 4th turn so they don't even make sense on the ban list. bitterblossom would promote b/x control and faeries which would still typically fold to zoo. also, with punishing fire in the format and ez access to firespout faeries would be kept in check quite well. last but not least is ancestral visions. ancestral visions is a card advantage engine that doesn't work well with combo and trades lots of time for a powerful effect. a spell that would at best go off on turn 5 is not overpowered, it should not wreck zoo. think about it this way, you give up a turn and a card against one of the most consistent turn 4 decks in the format so you can have cards on turn 5...... not even sure i would run it lol.
I disagree. It wouldn't be terrible the fact we got for it free in the first place was crazy. Hence the reason the reason why the card is banned in two formats .
when talking about cards such as mental misstep you have to look at the targets for the card. legacy is almost completely ruled by 1-2 cc stuff and having a free mental misstep is degenerate because it might as well be a free cs vs most cards available to all decks. it protects combo decks well and it works well with tempo and control. it works least well with aggro and then tempo.
in modern you have to once again look at the cards in the format. thoughtseize, iok, nacatl, hierarch, ect. the list of 1cc spells in this format is a limited set, the damage of a free cs is limited by its targets and would have also been limited by the types of decks that are permitted to run it. i don't think prematurely banning it in modern was the correct move, if it showed up in a U based tempo or control deck and dominated that would be one thing. if it made combo oppressive that would be a good reason to ban it, i don't think it would do either of those things because their isn't a prevalence of cards like spell pierce.
From my reading of past comments on instant sped draw, I am not sure that Wizards would feel it is okay to have a draw 3 instant for 4cmc. If they did I would expect a drawback or it to cost 1UUU.
depending on the drawback i wouldd be ok with it. i think that while many people including wizards employees might be afraid of a 4cmc draw 3 card i don't think it would be too powerful, there are lots of spells that are similar in effect just not that good that never ever see play. a vanilla 4cmc would not break any format and i think it would help blue mid-late game decks. even a 4cmc draw 3 sorcery in green doesn't do anything, and green has ramp and most non blue decks have green in them.
i would like to see an instant for like 2UU that was just a simple draw 3 cards. 4 mana draw 3 card sorceries never see play and i don't think that 2uu for 3 cards is too much to ask. jaces ingenuity is 3uu for 3 cards and it sucks as well.
i would like to populate this post with a bunch of other cards that i feel should be reprinted but to be quite honest most of the aggro cards that we want and most of the burn cards that we want are already legal in modern. i would be interested in seeing the slivers like might sliver and crystalline sliver remade but it's hard to beat current creatures.
price of progress, stifle, maybe mishra's factory, red elemental blast, fireblast and more, but not immediately lol.
We've already established you feel Cancel is unplayable, yet Counterspell would be a staple of the format.
Would you play Counterspell if it had a Thoughtseize-like loss of life clause tacked on, maybe at 3 life? yes, this has been a wish of many control players for years, counter target spell and lose 2 life is fine, 3 is too much.
If Counterspell had a Path to Exile-like mana-advantage clause tacked on?
no, counterspell is for the most part an even trade with your opponent in mana cost and card cost. you can pull out the mana advantages with it but it mainly is even and sometimes it is used for 1cc stuff. tbh it is not overpowered, it is a standard that should be set. wizards decided to change their policy on counters when the power creep of cards was a lot lower than now.
If Counterspell had an IoK-like converted mana cost of 3 or less clause tacked on?
if it was 1U and was not the only worthwhile counterspell then yes. but not UU and the only one.
If Counterspell cantripped for the opponent or forced you to discard/exiile another blue card from your hand as an additional cost, putting you down a card on net card advantage instead of trading 1 for 1?
no, if it cantripped for both of us then i would play it.
Would you play Force Spike if it were legal, or is that too conditional like Mana Leak?
would playtest it, also mana leak is playable.
Would you play a Mana Leak variant that costs UU to counter it unless the opponent pays 4, or is that still too conditional like Mana Leak?
if the printed a cs that was 1U unless they pay 2 and had a potential additional cost of 1 to make it a hard counter I would play that.
EDIT: In closing, which of those variants would you play above the staple-esque Mana Leak or a metagame card like Negate or Remove Soul or a more expensive variant like Cryptic Command?
i would like to see permission control be possible but not prevalent. for the most part that is probably going to always be true in formats with goyf and bob and even tiago which all promote quick play instead of drawn out slow games.
I just think that Zoo isn't as dominant as many people seem to think it is. And it may end up getting worse if it eats some ban hammer before the end of the year. Control still has ground to fight for and still has the tools to win. What I mean by not wanting Hard Permission style decks is that I don't want to see Modern spiral into a literal Legacy-lite type environment.
legacy is not a hard permission style of play. legacy decks run fow and daze mainly and those are big anti-combo and are free. legacy is not draw-go, it can be but it is mainly tempo. even if modern had a teir 1 draw-go it would not be legacy-lite
Give artifact decks to much consistency
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Too powerful
Umezawa's Jitte
Stoneforge Mystic
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Combos that are too good
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hypergenesis
Skullclamp
Could be considered for unbanning
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dread Return
Ponder
Preordain
Rite of Flame
Sensei's Divining Top
Sword of the Meek
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
i think that the arty lands could use some consideration but i believe that the reason they were banned before modern came out is because they give too much consistency to artifact based decks and eventually would have been banned.
cards like jace 2 and the jitte are just too powerful, goyf is another card that is close to being on this list and may be in the future. i would like to see every card here back but i know they would do too much.
the only combo enabler that i would probably take off of this list is the grave troll and i would replace that with something more appropriate. these combos (outside of 12 post) typically kill too quickly or with too much resilience and would be stale.
the list of cards that i consider plausible for unbanning is filled with different engines from valakut to sword of the meek. while killing someone on turn 4 consistently with valakut may seem mean, i don't think that combo or stuff with prismatic omen or what have you are too powerful. ancestral vision, bitterblossom, preordain, ponder, rite of flame, dread return and mox are all unnecessary in my opinion and i don't see how an enchantment that doesnt' do anything til turn 3, a sorcery that comes into play at earliest turn 4 and stuff like dread return and rite of flame scream op. in fact they don't, rite of flame was banned recently because of storm decks and there are better targets for storm decks and even better, time will eventually phase them out.
while i certainly agree that just having skullclamp and hypergenesis is incorrect, i doubt that cards like ponder belong on a list with offenders such as dark depths.
unbanning mental misstep would be good because all colors can run it and it gives a small advantage to blue. I think that unbanning mental misstep would foster a control deck using spell snare as well and that would be powreful but not overpowered. imagine if zoo became too strong and people started running 4 ofs mental misstep to counter the smaller creatures in zoo. then zoo would run less 1 cmc cards and be more of a midrange deck, and with spell snare also being in most blue decks the zoo deck would be good but not 30% of worlds.
in short free counterspells (especially mental misstep) are anti-combo and also hinder 1cmc cards like wild nacatl.
This is why you run Consume the Meek and Rest for the Weary, right? So you can clear the board of weenies like Tarmogoyf, Knight, Nacatl, Atog, Ravager, Master of Etherium, etc. even if you have to take a hit in the process. Path, Doomblade, Verdict, Slaughter Pact, or what have you can handle any resolved fatties.
i run consume the meek, damnation and rest for the wary as a response to aggro decks in my side board, i still think that they are bad main board
Try it. It doesn't need to be fast- it needs to be flexible. WSZ is the most flexible and inevitable finisher we can run. Need an instant speed blocker on turn 4 to chump that Knight? Sure. Need a way to put on pressure after you just stripped somebody's hand? You got it. Need a way to end the game on turn 17 after a grueling mirror match? WSZ can do it, and can do it several times in a row if need be.
i think that wsz is a fine card, but I don't think that a 2/2 flash for 4 is good. I do agree that it is a good finisher at turn 17 but i don't need it for that because I expect to kill with venny's, snapcasters etc and lands. also wsz is a clunky spell and you should limit your spells above 4 to a minimum
This is also why I would suggest emphasizing flexible discard- Esper Charm, Piracy Charm, and Inquisition of Kozilek are the ones I run. Modal spells are your friend in this sort of deck, and Inquisition is my nod to the fact that Aggro is currently dominant.
not sure if you avoid running thoughtseize because it is expensive but the power level of thoughtseize is worth trading up for piracy charm. i run esper charm, thoughtseize and inquisition of kozi.
I would advise running cards that are fluid. you don't need to use a teferi in md because you can just use vinny and kill them. if you want to run wsz then do so, more power to you and you can def place in ptq's with it. I would not put it in every esper deck though, I wouldn't put it in my deck.
Except WSZ doesn't come out turn 5. WSZ is played typically when you have the mana to swing for the win the following turn. I'm not hating on zenith, but it's not a fast win condition by any means.
i'm not advocating for mb mass removal. I think it's not good enough in formats like modern where there are lots of decks that it isn't great against (and good players will protect against it). I would however say that mass removal against aggro decks is always relatively ok as long as you have some form of generating card advantage. the biggest problem with *** and stuff like it is that you will tap out to play it and give your opponent a free spell. you need to have something in mind to combat this free spell or he will eventually wreck you with it. WSZ is similar to other finishers in the past but i don't think it is fast enough to warrant high level play.
The argument that hand disruption is dead in the late game is very true and is a gamble that you have to run. I currently dedicate 6 slots (10%) to good hand disruption and I have a 1/10 chance of drawing those cards (that gets gradually better), I don't think that the dead draws in the late game are going to affect your position nearly as much as being able to play the card early game.
if you keep talking sense like that people are going to say you want control to dominate and that you only play draw go decks. They will also add you to their ignore list.
I've given up trying to explain this point. Its nice to see someone else with common MTG sense.
hopefully they don't find out that i mainly play zoo/jund/faeries (it will be a secret...)
so i am considering getting back into magic and i am happy to find out that a new format -modern- is around and my favorite deck teachings is playable once again. here is the list that i am considering starting.
1 deathmark
1 flashfreeze
1 negate
1 teferi
1 plumveil
1 smother
1 consume the meek
1 extirpate
1 rest for the weary
i think that taking more of an aggressive discard package is going to be the best play in this meta. you get a consistant turn 1 play and can take out their best card. the discard cards are only 1 mana and they work especially well vs combo and gimmicky strats. one thing that is fairly obvious with a lot of lists in this thread is the high casting cost average. in standard you typically want an average cast cost of between 2.5 and 3 for control decks and i would imagine that a lot of the decks in this list are over 3 by a fair margin. you want to run cards that are cheap and powerful (i know lol). in extremely aggressive formats i would put stuff like the plumveil in the main deck and possibly increasing the removal to like 6
It doesnt matter what cards I would say because you and your merry ban of unhappy control players will say they are jank and unplayable... thats my point.
Some people understand what I meant, if you look above your last post, BonSequitur explained it again in different terms. There are those that refuse to play other cards then they are use to, and then there are those willing to experiment when cards are taken away from them.
i have been playing all colors since 96 and i still think that a lot of the control cards (that are quite mediocre tbh) should be removed from the ban list. also some of the slower combo cards should be removed from that list. zoo will always have a place in the meta and it needs to be paralleled by combo and control.
Heres where we disagree. They dont want Legacy 2.0. They want another eternal format with a different feel from Legacy. Hence the turn 4 rule instead of turn 3 they aimed for with Legacy. They dont want another blue dominated format such as Vinatge or Legacy. Trying to reinvent something differently is sometimes harder then doing it originally.
actually the benefits of legacy 2.0 is that cards aren't extremely expensive and are relatively easy to get. the turn 4 change in modern is because there are only a couple decks that can get turn 3 kills and those would rise above the rest. in vintage there are a lot of things you can do to get a turn 3 win or at least inevitability. vintage and legacy are blue dominated because with duals you can literally run every color and most people want to run anti combo cards like fow and draw cards like brainstorm.
Give artifact decks to much consistency
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Too powerful
Umezawa's Jitte
Stoneforge Mystic
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Combos that are too good
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hypergenesis
Skullclamp
Could be considered for unbanning
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dread Return
Ponder
Preordain
Rite of Flame
Sensei's Divining Top
Sword of the Meek
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
i think that the arty lands could use some consideration but i believe that the reason they were banned before modern came out is because they give too much consistency to artifact based decks and eventually would have been banned.
cards like jace 2 and the jitte are just too powerful, goyf is another card that is close to being on this list and may be in the future. i would like to see every card here back but i know they would do too much.
the only combo enabler that i would probably take off of this list is the grave troll and i would replace that with something more appropriate. these combos (outside of 12 post) typically kill too quickly or with too much resilience and would be stale.
the list of cards that i consider plausible for unbanning is filled with different engines from valakut to sword of the meek. while killing someone on turn 4 consistently with valakut may seem mean, i don't think that combo or stuff with prismatic omen or what have you are too powerful. ancestral vision, bitterblossom, preordain, ponder, rite of flame, dread return and mox are all unnecessary in my opinion and i don't see how an enchantment that doesnt' do anything til turn 3, a sorcery that comes into play at earliest turn 4 and stuff like dread return and rite of flame scream op. in fact they don't, rite of flame was banned recently because of storm decks and there are better targets for storm decks and even better, time will eventually phase them out.
while i certainly agree that just having skullclamp and hypergenesis is incorrect, i doubt that cards like ponder belong on a list with offenders such as dark depths.
please stop trying to shoehorn the same strawman that you have been using in almost every post about unbanning cards. you don't need to unban every card. you don't even need to unban a lot of cards. you should however unban some cards to promote a healthy format.
Give artifact decks to much consistency
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Too powerful
Umezawa's Jitte
Stoneforge Mystic
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Combos that are too good
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hypergenesis
Skullclamp
everybody but me dislikes
sensei's divining top
sword of the meek
Could be considered for unbanning
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dread Return
Ponder
Preordain
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
dread return would bring up solar flare and possibly dredge, ponder and preordain shouldn't even be on this list (at least make one available), chrome mox would elevate tempo decks and control decks slightly, most combo decks need all of their cards in this format to win. valakut combos don't kill before the 4th turn so they don't even make sense on the ban list. bitterblossom would promote b/x control and faeries which would still typically fold to zoo. also, with punishing fire in the format and ez access to firespout faeries would be kept in check quite well. last but not least is ancestral visions. ancestral visions is a card advantage engine that doesn't work well with combo and trades lots of time for a powerful effect. a spell that would at best go off on turn 5 is not overpowered, it should not wreck zoo. think about it this way, you give up a turn and a card against one of the most consistent turn 4 decks in the format so you can have cards on turn 5...... not even sure i would run it lol.
when talking about cards such as mental misstep you have to look at the targets for the card. legacy is almost completely ruled by 1-2 cc stuff and having a free mental misstep is degenerate because it might as well be a free cs vs most cards available to all decks. it protects combo decks well and it works well with tempo and control. it works least well with aggro and then tempo.
in modern you have to once again look at the cards in the format. thoughtseize, iok, nacatl, hierarch, ect. the list of 1cc spells in this format is a limited set, the damage of a free cs is limited by its targets and would have also been limited by the types of decks that are permitted to run it. i don't think prematurely banning it in modern was the correct move, if it showed up in a U based tempo or control deck and dominated that would be one thing. if it made combo oppressive that would be a good reason to ban it, i don't think it would do either of those things because their isn't a prevalence of cards like spell pierce.
depending on the drawback i wouldd be ok with it. i think that while many people including wizards employees might be afraid of a 4cmc draw 3 card i don't think it would be too powerful, there are lots of spells that are similar in effect just not that good that never ever see play. a vanilla 4cmc would not break any format and i think it would help blue mid-late game decks. even a 4cmc draw 3 sorcery in green doesn't do anything, and green has ramp and most non blue decks have green in them.
i would like to populate this post with a bunch of other cards that i feel should be reprinted but to be quite honest most of the aggro cards that we want and most of the burn cards that we want are already legal in modern. i would be interested in seeing the slivers like might sliver and crystalline sliver remade but it's hard to beat current creatures.
price of progress, stifle, maybe mishra's factory, red elemental blast, fireblast and more, but not immediately lol.
i would like to see permission control be possible but not prevalent. for the most part that is probably going to always be true in formats with goyf and bob and even tiago which all promote quick play instead of drawn out slow games.
legacy is not a hard permission style of play. legacy decks run fow and daze mainly and those are big anti-combo and are free. legacy is not draw-go, it can be but it is mainly tempo. even if modern had a teir 1 draw-go it would not be legacy-lite
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Too powerful
Umezawa's Jitte
Stoneforge Mystic
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Combos that are too good
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hypergenesis
Skullclamp
Could be considered for unbanning
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dread Return
Ponder
Preordain
Rite of Flame
Sensei's Divining Top
Sword of the Meek
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
i think that the arty lands could use some consideration but i believe that the reason they were banned before modern came out is because they give too much consistency to artifact based decks and eventually would have been banned.
cards like jace 2 and the jitte are just too powerful, goyf is another card that is close to being on this list and may be in the future. i would like to see every card here back but i know they would do too much.
the only combo enabler that i would probably take off of this list is the grave troll and i would replace that with something more appropriate. these combos (outside of 12 post) typically kill too quickly or with too much resilience and would be stale.
the list of cards that i consider plausible for unbanning is filled with different engines from valakut to sword of the meek. while killing someone on turn 4 consistently with valakut may seem mean, i don't think that combo or stuff with prismatic omen or what have you are too powerful. ancestral vision, bitterblossom, preordain, ponder, rite of flame, dread return and mox are all unnecessary in my opinion and i don't see how an enchantment that doesnt' do anything til turn 3, a sorcery that comes into play at earliest turn 4 and stuff like dread return and rite of flame scream op. in fact they don't, rite of flame was banned recently because of storm decks and there are better targets for storm decks and even better, time will eventually phase them out.
while i certainly agree that just having skullclamp and hypergenesis is incorrect, i doubt that cards like ponder belong on a list with offenders such as dark depths.
in short free counterspells (especially mental misstep) are anti-combo and also hinder 1cmc cards like wild nacatl.
I would advise running cards that are fluid. you don't need to use a teferi in md because you can just use vinny and kill them. if you want to run wsz then do so, more power to you and you can def place in ptq's with it. I would not put it in every esper deck though, I wouldn't put it in my deck.
i'm not advocating for mb mass removal. I think it's not good enough in formats like modern where there are lots of decks that it isn't great against (and good players will protect against it). I would however say that mass removal against aggro decks is always relatively ok as long as you have some form of generating card advantage. the biggest problem with *** and stuff like it is that you will tap out to play it and give your opponent a free spell. you need to have something in mind to combat this free spell or he will eventually wreck you with it. WSZ is similar to other finishers in the past but i don't think it is fast enough to warrant high level play.
The argument that hand disruption is dead in the late game is very true and is a gamble that you have to run. I currently dedicate 6 slots (10%) to good hand disruption and I have a 1/10 chance of drawing those cards (that gets gradually better), I don't think that the dead draws in the late game are going to affect your position nearly as much as being able to play the card early game.
hopefully they don't find out that i mainly play zoo/jund/faeries (it will be a secret...)
i think that taking more of an aggressive discard package is going to be the best play in this meta. you get a consistant turn 1 play and can take out their best card. the discard cards are only 1 mana and they work especially well vs combo and gimmicky strats. one thing that is fairly obvious with a lot of lists in this thread is the high casting cost average. in standard you typically want an average cast cost of between 2.5 and 3 for control decks and i would imagine that a lot of the decks in this list are over 3 by a fair margin. you want to run cards that are cheap and powerful (i know lol). in extremely aggressive formats i would put stuff like the plumveil in the main deck and possibly increasing the removal to like 6
i have been playing all colors since 96 and i still think that a lot of the control cards (that are quite mediocre tbh) should be removed from the ban list. also some of the slower combo cards should be removed from that list. zoo will always have a place in the meta and it needs to be paralleled by combo and control.
actually the benefits of legacy 2.0 is that cards aren't extremely expensive and are relatively easy to get. the turn 4 change in modern is because there are only a couple decks that can get turn 3 kills and those would rise above the rest. in vintage there are a lot of things you can do to get a turn 3 win or at least inevitability. vintage and legacy are blue dominated because with duals you can literally run every color and most people want to run anti combo cards like fow and draw cards like brainstorm.
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Seat of the Synod
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
Too powerful
Umezawa's Jitte
Stoneforge Mystic
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Combos that are too good
Blazing Shoal
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Hypergenesis
Skullclamp
Could be considered for unbanning
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dread Return
Ponder
Preordain
Rite of Flame
Sensei's Divining Top
Sword of the Meek
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
i think that the arty lands could use some consideration but i believe that the reason they were banned before modern came out is because they give too much consistency to artifact based decks and eventually would have been banned.
cards like jace 2 and the jitte are just too powerful, goyf is another card that is close to being on this list and may be in the future. i would like to see every card here back but i know they would do too much.
the only combo enabler that i would probably take off of this list is the grave troll and i would replace that with something more appropriate. these combos (outside of 12 post) typically kill too quickly or with too much resilience and would be stale.
the list of cards that i consider plausible for unbanning is filled with different engines from valakut to sword of the meek. while killing someone on turn 4 consistently with valakut may seem mean, i don't think that combo or stuff with prismatic omen or what have you are too powerful. ancestral vision, bitterblossom, preordain, ponder, rite of flame, dread return and mox are all unnecessary in my opinion and i don't see how an enchantment that doesnt' do anything til turn 3, a sorcery that comes into play at earliest turn 4 and stuff like dread return and rite of flame scream op. in fact they don't, rite of flame was banned recently because of storm decks and there are better targets for storm decks and even better, time will eventually phase them out.
while i certainly agree that just having skullclamp and hypergenesis is incorrect, i doubt that cards like ponder belong on a list with offenders such as dark depths.
4 noble hierarch
4 mystic snake
4 remand
4 kitchen finks
3 vendilion clique
4 momentary blink
4 path to exile
2 wrath of god
2 day of judgement
4 mana leak
4 whitemane lion
2 krosan grip
3 qasali pridemage
2 flashfreeze