@yiel
I didn't really do the math, I sorta just swapped my BW manabase but changed the bw creature lands treetop villages, and switched some basics and fetches for the fast lands (I always wanted to cast baneslayer on curve so I didn't include them in my bw list). Urborg helps a bit and I was happy with 17 black sources one of them being urborg, I might go for two hissing quagmire and two treetops or 1-3 and add another fetch.
My main issue with field is imo is that it is to slow, you can't activate it until turn 3, this is too late on the draw vs tron. It might be okay in slower MU like UW-control, but there you will likely run out of basics to fetch anyways. My lgs had plenty of decks that ran blood moon and the ability to sac ghost quarter and target your own land to grab a basic saved med more than once, you can also use ghost quarter against your own land that is being targeted by an opposing field of ruin to deny them the ability to grab a basic. I have also won games vs scapeshift by holding up 3 ghost quarters and targeting my opponents lands in response to the valakut triggers causing my opponent to run out of basics resulting in him having less than 6 mountains in play and me winning the game.
Note: I am not saying that field of ruin is a bad card and I am sure it has many upsides over ghost quarter, I can see tireless tracker beeing one reason to play field over ghost quarter and I am sure there are many more. I my opinion is probably very biased coming from bw where you basically have to fold vs a resolved ugin, and many other cards that bg can beat.
I am pretty confident that you should be able to construct a solid BG-manabase with 3 Treetop Village and Field of Ruin. I run 23 lands in my BW-midrange/Dead Guy Ale list that I have been playing for about 3 years now. I do run Ghost Quarter over Field of Ruin, as i value the fact Ghost Quarter allows you to interact before turn 3. You can target your own lands with Ghost Quarter, this can both fix your mana and allows you to hold up a fatal push with revolt by leaving an untapped Ghost Quarter, this has come up multiple times. My current list plays 23 lands with 15 white and 17 black sources, with 3 basic plains as I want to reliable cast a Baneslayer Angel though a Blood Moon.
I just acquired my goyfs, and I am going to play this list for the next couple of weeks. I am not 100% sure about the manabase and swaping one Treetop Village for a Hissing Quagmire might be correct, but I like the fact that Treetop Village attacks for 1 extra damage and is also cheaper to activate.
I have been happy with the change. It comes down 1 turn earlier and it provides an endless stream of blockers that doesn't require any additional mana investment. Prior to the swap my deck was quite stacked in the 3-cmc spot with 4 lotv, 2 ltlh, 4 lingering souls, 1 sword, 1 banishing light. My current iteration is a lot more streamlined and is packed with interaction in the 1 and 2 cmc slots. With the current state of modern that leaves you dead on turn 3 or 4, i just don't think you can afford to take turn 3 off for two 1/1 fliers.
I just started a new job so have been a bit busy these last few weeks so I and haven't been able fine tune the deck and my SB is still a bit of a mess. One of the problems with a deck like this is that you need certain cards vs aggro that are dead vs combo and vice versa and this is something that you have to take in to account when you build your SB.
With all the recent changes in the meta game and me having fun with other decks such as UB-Fae, UB-Thing, GB-Vechicles (bob tribal) and various BUG builds, I haven't had time to update my SB, I have some idea of changes that I would like to make and I will try to post a new list with updated SB later this week. I'd love to share if you have any ideas on good cards or strategies vs certain decks. I have been looking at the BG-Rock thread as this one is not very active but there are some major differences between how BW and BG operate imo and we also have access to white (the best SB color in modern).
i know i'm playing a rare type of "the rock" with primeval tian in my list. but if you are running prim-time in a what should the land composition look like?
I do not mean to be rude, but I do not understand radiant fountain in 2 colored deck with 5 shocks and no basics. Adding 1 basic land would have the same effect as it doesn't force you to shock when you crack a fetch to have it come in to play untapped.
I would prob add some bounce lands as it allows you to re-use the etb effects on your land. Other than that modern is really fast now and you could maybe try Sejiri Steppe to have your titan gain protection from a relevant color and thus unblockable.
I don't think you need two spell bombs main and your new list looks fine. BW and BG are two very different decks BW is much more of a control deck that can't close out games as fast as BG. My main point was that spellbomb have relevant text vs many different decks where as bauble only let's you pseudo scry if you have a fetchland.
A split between cage and spellbomb is prob the best as cage also have relevant text vs green toolbox decks where it stops collected company and chord of calling I would run a 2 spellbombs and 1 cage in my 75 if I had 3 slots open.
jokerstyle00
I have been playing BW for a long time but planing on switching to BG once I acquire my 3rd and 4th goyf. I would probaly play a list very similar to yours and here are some of my thoughts regarding your 75.
I have been running two nihil spellbomb main deck for a while in bw and it has been great. It gives you an out to all the degenerate gw-decks running around, but it also have many vs other decks such as uw-control: you can exile the grave in response to the snapcaster mage etb, you can exile the grave to delay search for azcanta, you can use it to draw a card in the event that your opponent bonces your liliana of the veil in response to the +1 ability just to name a few.
When do you side in Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet? With an extra spellbomb in the 75 I'd probably consider adding a 3rd collective brutality but that might be because I don't know your sideboard plan.
I would run an urborg, tomb of yawgmoth if I were you: with 4 colorless lands you run run a risk of color screw and urborg can help mitigate some of that risk. You currently only run 4 fetchlands and urborg allows them to tap for mana, this can be relevant in some cases when you need the fetchland later to trigger revolt for fatal push, the ability to tap for mana with out fetching (and paying 1 life) can also be relevant vs burn or if you run in that prevents you from searching or the odd case of mill when you have no fetch-able targets left.
How has Ishkanah, Grafwidow been for you so far? It feels like a card you want vs fast decks to stabilize the board but it seems quite slow at 5cmc and it also requires a bit of setup, I would probably run a second Raking Canopy as that card seems great vs both spirits and arclight phoenix and hollow one.
I played a BUG midrange deck based around training grounds a couple of months ago. It was quite fun to play but a bit to slow and inconsistent for my local meta, I did feel like it had potential tho and could probably be a bit more streamlined.
I thought grixis death's shadow had problems with decks that go wide. Bitterblossom provides an endless stream of creatures with evasion that should be able to threaten lethal in most games, I suppose you still have to worry about Temur Battle Rage but that is usually only a 2-off.
I have been playing BW-midrange for a over two years (was playing abzan haakon loam before that), and it is very possible that my evaluation is screwed. I have been considering making a switch from BW to BG seeing as goyfs are at an all time low now, and I only need a play-set of goyfs to make the switch.
Have anyone of you guys tested bitterblossom in the rock after it became legal again. It feels like a good card vs control that is that hard to remove given that it is an enchantment, tho this might have changed with the printing of assassin's trophy, even if it gets removed it still pumps tarmogoyf with +2/+2 so that could also be seen as an upside, any thoughts?
This might seem a bit odd but I tried cutting all my copies of lingering souls and replaced them with bitterblossom. The idea behind this switch was to lower the curve and allow for more cheaper and more efficient interaction. I still think that lingering souls is a very powerful card and that it had good synergy with Liliana of the veil but as it currently stands I think it might be to slow for modern.
I have only played this iteration of the deck one time at my local lgs but I was not very impressed by the main deck collective brutalities and I would have liked one or two kambal, consul of allocation in the 75 along with maybe one or two vampire hexmage or hero's downfall to deal with non creature decks that heavily rely on planeswalkers to win the game for them. I am also considering swapping one of my wath effects for a cataclysmic gearhulk as it is a bit more versatile.
Have anyone tried funeral charm in DGA? I could see runing one or two over a fatal push and an inquisition of kozilek it kills most early creatures that are relevant, the instant speed discard is also quite good when we are hellbent and it is a good card vs control when removal are dead cards.
I didn't really do the math, I sorta just swapped my BW manabase but changed the bw creature lands treetop villages, and switched some basics and fetches for the fast lands (I always wanted to cast baneslayer on curve so I didn't include them in my bw list). Urborg helps a bit and I was happy with 17 black sources one of them being urborg, I might go for two hissing quagmire and two treetops or 1-3 and add another fetch.
My main issue with field is imo is that it is to slow, you can't activate it until turn 3, this is too late on the draw vs tron. It might be okay in slower MU like UW-control, but there you will likely run out of basics to fetch anyways. My lgs had plenty of decks that ran blood moon and the ability to sac ghost quarter and target your own land to grab a basic saved med more than once, you can also use ghost quarter against your own land that is being targeted by an opposing field of ruin to deny them the ability to grab a basic. I have also won games vs scapeshift by holding up 3 ghost quarters and targeting my opponents lands in response to the valakut triggers causing my opponent to run out of basics resulting in him having less than 6 mountains in play and me winning the game.
Note: I am not saying that field of ruin is a bad card and I am sure it has many upsides over ghost quarter, I can see tireless tracker beeing one reason to play field over ghost quarter and I am sure there are many more. I my opinion is probably very biased coming from bw where you basically have to fold vs a resolved ugin, and many other cards that bg can beat.
In my experience you want one black sources by turn one for Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize and two black sources by turn three for Liliana of the Veil. While Twilight Mire might help you cast Liliana of the Veil by turn three you it doesn't help you with your turn one plays, for this reason I would exchange it for an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and a basic Swamp, and probably only run one basic Forest.
Here is my BW list if you are interested, the main deck is pretty solid but I usually swap the sideboard around a bit.
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Shambling Vent
2 Godless Shrine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Plains
4 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
Creatures: 8
4 Dark Confidant
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Baneslayer angel
4 Bitterblossom
1 Banishing Light
Planeswalkers: 6
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Spells: 18
4 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Celestial Purge
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Wrath of God
3 Damping Sphere
2 Extirpate
1 Languish
I just acquired my goyfs, and I am going to play this list for the next couple of weeks. I am not 100% sure about the manabase and swaping one Treetop Village for a Hissing Quagmire might be correct, but I like the fact that Treetop Village attacks for 1 extra damage and is also cheaper to activate.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging ooze
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells 22
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Go for the Throat
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Treetop Village
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
2 Damping Sphere
1 Languish
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Raking Canopy
1 Collective Brutality
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Pithing Needle
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
I just started a new job so have been a bit busy these last few weeks so I and haven't been able fine tune the deck and my SB is still a bit of a mess. One of the problems with a deck like this is that you need certain cards vs aggro that are dead vs combo and vice versa and this is something that you have to take in to account when you build your SB.
With all the recent changes in the meta game and me having fun with other decks such as UB-Fae, UB-Thing, GB-Vechicles (bob tribal) and various BUG builds, I haven't had time to update my SB, I have some idea of changes that I would like to make and I will try to post a new list with updated SB later this week. I'd love to share if you have any ideas on good cards or strategies vs certain decks. I have been looking at the BG-Rock thread as this one is not very active but there are some major differences between how BW and BG operate imo and we also have access to white (the best SB color in modern).
I do not mean to be rude, but I do not understand radiant fountain in 2 colored deck with 5 shocks and no basics. Adding 1 basic land would have the same effect as it doesn't force you to shock when you crack a fetch to have it come in to play untapped.
I would prob add some bounce lands as it allows you to re-use the etb effects on your land. Other than that modern is really fast now and you could maybe try Sejiri Steppe to have your titan gain protection from a relevant color and thus unblockable.
A split between cage and spellbomb is prob the best as cage also have relevant text vs green toolbox decks where it stops collected company and chord of calling I would run a 2 spellbombs and 1 cage in my 75 if I had 3 slots open.
I have been playing BW for a long time but planing on switching to BG once I acquire my 3rd and 4th goyf. I would probaly play a list very similar to yours and here are some of my thoughts regarding your 75.
I have been running two nihil spellbomb main deck for a while in bw and it has been great. It gives you an out to all the degenerate gw-decks running around, but it also have many vs other decks such as uw-control: you can exile the grave in response to the snapcaster mage etb, you can exile the grave to delay search for azcanta, you can use it to draw a card in the event that your opponent bonces your liliana of the veil in response to the +1 ability just to name a few.
When do you side in Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet? With an extra spellbomb in the 75 I'd probably consider adding a 3rd collective brutality but that might be because I don't know your sideboard plan.
I would run an urborg, tomb of yawgmoth if I were you: with 4 colorless lands you run run a risk of color screw and urborg can help mitigate some of that risk. You currently only run 4 fetchlands and urborg allows them to tap for mana, this can be relevant in some cases when you need the fetchland later to trigger revolt for fatal push, the ability to tap for mana with out fetching (and paying 1 life) can also be relevant vs burn or if you run in that prevents you from searching or the odd case of mill when you have no fetch-able targets left.
How has Ishkanah, Grafwidow been for you so far? It feels like a card you want vs fast decks to stabilize the board but it seems quite slow at 5cmc and it also requires a bit of setup, I would probably run a second Raking Canopy as that card seems great vs both spirits and arclight phoenix and hollow one.
I played a BUG midrange deck based around training grounds a couple of months ago. It was quite fun to play but a bit to slow and inconsistent for my local meta, I did feel like it had potential tho and could probably be a bit more streamlined.
4 verdant catacombs
2 polluted delta
2 overgrown tomb
2 watery grave
1 breeding pool
4 creeping tar pit
3 mutavault
2 swamp
1 forest
2 island
4 training grounds
Planeswalkers 6
4 liliana of the veil
2 liliana, the last hope
Creatures 12
4 warden of the first tree
4 pack rat
4 tasigur, the golden fang
Spells 15
3 fatal push
4 thought scour
2 life from the loam
2 abrupt decay
2 raven's crime
1 cast down
1 go for the throat
I was quite impressed with warden of the first tree and if I were to run this deck again I would prob move the life from the loam and raven's crime to the sideboard and replace them with thoughtseize and inquisition of kozilek. It is also very possible that thought scour should be removed entirely, as with the loam package gone, it is only there to help power out a quick tasigur, the golden fang but that might not be enough and would be better suited as an assassin's trophy.
I have been playing BW-midrange for a over two years (was playing abzan haakon loam before that), and it is very possible that my evaluation is screwed. I have been considering making a switch from BW to BG seeing as goyfs are at an all time low now, and I only need a play-set of goyfs to make the switch.
2 bloodstained mire
4 marsh flats
4 shambling vent
2 godless shrine
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 plains
4 swamp
3 ghost quarter
Creatures: 7
4 dark confidant
1 kalitas, traitor of ghet
2 baneslayer angel
4 bitterblossom
1 banishing light
Planeswalkers: 5
3 Liliana of the veil
2 Liliana, the last hope
Spells: 20
4 fatal push
4 path to exile
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
3 collective brutality
2 nihil spellbomb
1 sword of light and shadow
3 stony silence
3 rest in peace
2 celestial Purge
1 blessed alliance
1 wrath of god
3 damping sphere
1 liliana of the veil
1 languish
I have only played this iteration of the deck one time at my local lgs but I was not very impressed by the main deck collective brutalities and I would have liked one or two kambal, consul of allocation in the 75 along with maybe one or two vampire hexmage or hero's downfall to deal with non creature decks that heavily rely on planeswalkers to win the game for them. I am also considering swapping one of my wath effects for a cataclysmic gearhulk as it is a bit more versatile.
Have anyone tried funeral charm in DGA? I could see runing one or two over a fatal push and an inquisition of kozilek it kills most early creatures that are relevant, the instant speed discard is also quite good when we are hellbent and it is a good card vs control when removal are dead cards.