Thing about Flusterstorm is that I'm not sure if it counts towards the actual count of counterspells in the set because it's the BaB. I was reading an article earlier about how it was added to the set after all the other cards were finalized. Additionally, we have no unconditional counter yet and most sets have one. With the norm being 3 or 4 counters per set, I would assume we have a reasonable chance to have 1 more if Flusterstorm isn't counted.
I still have hope for Counterspell. We have 3 slots for it in the name and number crunch still.
I also don't think Logic Knot is the same 99% of the time, but that could be a whole new thread.
Well flusterstorm already exists. I'm still shocked the price jumped at its reveal, given that it is a 1-2 of in legacy sideboards, max. That is way more likely to be an example of one printing being significantly more expensive than others. I hope nobody is buying it at $30+.
Who cares about losing a card if you lose on turn three due to a lack of disruption? Force is a safety valve and should be viewed as such. It is a way to stave off a potentially backbreaking play, and card advantage can be accumulated later through any number of cards.
Comically enough, the "flurry of small spells" one is handled by the other big blue reveal of Flusterstorm. But yeah, like others have said that big list is wild to consider as "I need one card that can stop everything." Oh and force of negation can still be hardcast for three mana on your own turn...it isn't that crazy a regular cost considering the alternative. Ultimately, yeah even unrestricted counters have counterplay options. Control and tempo are improved, I don't want them to become juggernauts.
In short, sorry we don't have a zero mana alternative casting cost counterspell plus stifle?
First, I think the instant-speed searing blaze is great, and I'd highly recommend against nerfing that play. I would also say that if I am needing to crack canyons to draw, I probably don't have any cards in hand. Inspiring Vantage only enters tapped if its the fourth land or later...I dunno seems one in a million compared to the power of instant blazing and grim activations.
It kinda feels like a lot of the reaction to FoN can be traced to people who don't play a ton of legacy. Here are some reasons FoN is good:
1. Control can tap out in earlier turns to deploy a creature, board wipe or planeswalker.
2. Strong turn 1-2 plays (most of which involve a noncreature spell, see faithless looting and ancient stirrings).
3. You need to make your opponent stumble to generate a tempo advantage.
For instance, I play some grixis shadow. Last night I deployed a turn two angler on the draw against a rakdos control deck, which was promptly met by a Liliana of the Veil using its -2 to turn the tide. With a couple forces in the 75, that play becomes way riskier, because even as a two for one, them losing a turn while I now have a 5/5 clock and plenty of cantrips is a big deal.
Another one, assuming we adopt the London Mulligan: you are on merfolk (which I think gets a big boost from this card) against tron. They mull to 5 and get tower, mine, chromatic star, sylvan scrying, karn. They have the nuts, but a force of negation can give the merfolk player the extra turn needed to win on the crackback instead of worrying about attacking down the planeswalker.
One more, why not? UW control against phoenix, they lead with a faithless looting and drop a phoenix and a land. You can play serum visions turn one. Phoenix player goes for manamorphose turn two. Oops, forced! Is the game over? Not at all, but you didn't have to sit there with a mana open to threaten spell pierce or snare.
These aren't extremely weird situations, in my opinion. There are certainly times force will not be that good, but that sort of thinking applies to every single card in the game. Even if negation becomes a two-of type "well at least I have a chance now" style of counterspell, hell its a step up from before, and it has the mental impact of players being more cautious. I am already looking at ways to build shadow to accomodate a couple.
Agreed. In fact if we want to be REALLY specific, even dropping fastlands for these further boosts grim lavamancer, though I'm not sure if I'd want to up the count of those in the main (or consider an 18 land burn deck, that I have yet to think about).
If these premium sets weren't of equal value to their price point, the value of old masters boxes would be plummeting. Instead, a UMA box is about $400 on tcgplayer. Just because YOU cannot afford it, or YOU would prefer to spend less, does not mean that the price is evil.
Here's the reality: if you are right, and the item is overpriced, very few will sell, and in a couple months you will be able to snag a box of MH for substantially less. If it holds its value, as almost every other premium product has, it just means that your concept of value is different from the vast majority of people.
Oh, and capitalism ******* rocks. I'll throw this out there for the above poster:
Just because it isn't 90/10 in infect or burn's favor anymore doesn't mean its a bad matchup. Besides, those sorts of decks are the ones that benefit most from the canopy lands.
The rare lands from the horizon canopy cycle should open up a myriad of possibilities for both established archetypes and brews. Their pre-order price is unsurprisingly high, but considering they are rare in a print to demand set, I'd expect them to wind up somewhere around the 15-20 mark while in print. However, I can see the price of Horizon Canopy itself taking a hit despite it NOT being included in the set.
The newer canopy printings are already dropping. IMA copies on TCGPlayer have plumtted from high 50s to low 40s. WOTC will finish the cycle, and there's virtually no chance they only print horizon lands in a future set for UW, UB, BR, and RG while leaving out the original.
Well flusterstorm already exists. I'm still shocked the price jumped at its reveal, given that it is a 1-2 of in legacy sideboards, max. That is way more likely to be an example of one printing being significantly more expensive than others. I hope nobody is buying it at $30+.
In short, sorry we don't have a zero mana alternative casting cost counterspell plus stifle?
1. Control can tap out in earlier turns to deploy a creature, board wipe or planeswalker.
2. Strong turn 1-2 plays (most of which involve a noncreature spell, see faithless looting and ancient stirrings).
3. You need to make your opponent stumble to generate a tempo advantage.
For instance, I play some grixis shadow. Last night I deployed a turn two angler on the draw against a rakdos control deck, which was promptly met by a Liliana of the Veil using its -2 to turn the tide. With a couple forces in the 75, that play becomes way riskier, because even as a two for one, them losing a turn while I now have a 5/5 clock and plenty of cantrips is a big deal.
Another one, assuming we adopt the London Mulligan: you are on merfolk (which I think gets a big boost from this card) against tron. They mull to 5 and get tower, mine, chromatic star, sylvan scrying, karn. They have the nuts, but a force of negation can give the merfolk player the extra turn needed to win on the crackback instead of worrying about attacking down the planeswalker.
One more, why not? UW control against phoenix, they lead with a faithless looting and drop a phoenix and a land. You can play serum visions turn one. Phoenix player goes for manamorphose turn two. Oops, forced! Is the game over? Not at all, but you didn't have to sit there with a mana open to threaten spell pierce or snare.
These aren't extremely weird situations, in my opinion. There are certainly times force will not be that good, but that sort of thinking applies to every single card in the game. Even if negation becomes a two-of type "well at least I have a chance now" style of counterspell, hell its a step up from before, and it has the mental impact of players being more cautious. I am already looking at ways to build shadow to accomodate a couple.
Here's the reality: if you are right, and the item is overpriced, very few will sell, and in a couple months you will be able to snag a box of MH for substantially less. If it holds its value, as almost every other premium product has, it just means that your concept of value is different from the vast majority of people.
Oh, and capitalism ******* rocks. I'll throw this out there for the above poster:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/05/14/no-the-rich-didnt-get-rich-at-the-expense-of-the-poor/#3307cd8c38ca
I mean you'd need an elvish spirit guide to get the kill, though a might of old krosa would do the trick!
8 fetchlands
2 shocks
3 fast
3 mt
3 canyons
I like having the third basic. If I were to up the canyon count to four I'd drop a fastland. I used to be on ten fetches, four fasts.
Infraction issued for trolling. --CWP
The newer canopy printings are already dropping. IMA copies on TCGPlayer have plumtted from high 50s to low 40s. WOTC will finish the cycle, and there's virtually no chance they only print horizon lands in a future set for UW, UB, BR, and RG while leaving out the original.