No disrespect to you or anyone else here but I feel like I kinda answered all that in my previous reply and the discussion is getting a bit cyclical so I'm replying at my own peril here. What I'm really confused about though is this bizarre "sufficient hate" argument, which seems to imply that the people propagating it (Control players specifically) deserve or are owed what they deem to be "sufficient hate", using busted cards from eons ago as benchmarks. Why do you feel entitled to that? I don't get it.Quote from idSurge »No, I've long accepted that hard control is a dog, and frankly should be. The question to me is simply 'is there hate that is sufficient, or is it deck choice that matters more'.
For example Stony against Affinity, or War's Wage. Those can go in any deck, and matter against Affinity. When you say 'I dont even care about Claim and just run them over with TKS' that to me says the hate simply isnt sufficient.
EDIT: Like for example if I tap out, and a surprise Choke hits me. I'm 99% dead. Right there. Is there anything that does that against Tron? It feels like a huge nope.
And for the record, my winrates against Control with my big bad Tron deck in the month of June:
Jeskai: 8-8 (50%)
UW: 2-3 (40%)
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That's why it has been said many times that modern rewards understanding your deck as opposed to trying to metagame.
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That being said, one reason I love modern is that it contains a ton of complex interactions. I don't enjoy that because I like tricking people, but because this is a format that rewards extensive knowledge of dozens of archetypes and lines of play. It continues to make me laugh that some pros complain about modern because they want to have a very clear, established meta so that they can try to prepare the best deck. Seriously, Mengucci wrote about this yesterday for CFB I found it laughable that he literally said it was bad that, as a pro, modern is too diverse for him to break the format.
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"the prices are too high" is a subjective statement. There are competitive modern decks that fall between $500 and $1,500. That's a wide range. Those prices are based on optimal builds, too, like running burn with twelve fetchlands divided at three of each that can search up a mountain or Eldrazi Tron with a full playset of chalice in the 75. I'm playing a storm deck right now without Scalding Tarn. That's a competitive combo deck that I built for like $250.
I think one problem is that people see modern for the first time and want to play the following week. Each modern deck I've had (blue tron, grixis delver, storm) took a few months to save up the money needed. Just remember that a year ago goyfs were all like $140. WOTC is doing better than you think.
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Strawmanning again, as has been pointed out already. Your arguments consist entirely of personal opinions (I want deck X to be tier 1), or fallacies (strawmans).
It doesn't matter how long jund has been tier 1. Interactive decks are very viable in modern. Grixis Shadow, Abzan midrange, and UW control chief among them. Eldrazi Tron has interaction as well. With that being made clear, your argument is now that ONE PARTICULAR deck needs to exist as a sign of format health, and I don't buy it.
So tell us, why does jund midrange have to exist for modern to be good?
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It's not a bad argument when its made best on the best information available.
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Some actual indicators of broken:
1. Violating the turn 4 rule with relative frequency.
2. Dominating the metagame shares (tier zero)
3. Pushing out all other viable strategies (eldrazi tron is the only grindy eldrazi deck)
Those are some real examples. Jund midrange has no right to exist in any format. Abzan is better for BGx midrange and is very viable. Jund Shadow is a jund deck but has a different game plan. Again, I keep saying this and I have yet to see a valid argument, but Jund not being tier 1 isn't a sign of broken...unless you spent two grand on jund or more foiling it out and want to protect your "investment."
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There ya go.
The problem isn't Eldrazi Temple. The problem is the idea that modern is a format all about playing on curve. This is a hyper efficient format where you are going to have to cheat mana somehow. Hell this list didn't even mention the Tron lands or Storms mana reducers.