Been meaning to share my experience and thoughts about Athreos, god of passage .
I main boarded this card in several months ago. I have played 22 matches with him in. In most matches he did show up. Unfortunately he was never relevant and his ability never triggered. My main reason for including him was for the jund/abzen, DS builds and to hose other decks. The jund match up is still a tough win for me. Against the black decks Athreos is discarded (thoughtseize) from my hand before Im able to use him. The mana cost and the cmc made him take longer to put into play, against these decks.
The games that he did see play (not against Jund) he was unnecessary, because I was already winning.
In my build I run 7-8 spirits (lingering souls, spectral procession), these creatures are anti synergy with Athreos. No body will pay 3 life to put a token in the graveyard. Our deck relies heavily on spirits. The bird version might get very different results, I have not played that version ( I might someday).
3cmc is also a bit of a problem as it leads to awkward decision tree. Do I run the normal SS plan or try deviating into a more robust Bolt for a Sister style. Bolt for a sister style is Athreos in play and then lay down all the one drops and weenies. Trying to recover them as they die at opponents expense.
Trying to force your Opponent to take 3 damage as you sacrifice your Martyr of Sands.
Bolt for a sister style never worked. Modern is too fast for the pieces to fit. If I had the pieces I was already going to win without Athreos' help.
So the decision tree addition is bad and at the wrong turn of the game ( playing at T4-5 not great either).
hen it is in play my opponents are distracted by it and spend time trying to play around it. They even sideboard against it. Athreos is not a blocker and does not prevent my opponent from doing what he would do any way. So at best he wasted my opponents turn as my opponent learns the relevance to the board state.
Athreos is hard to turn into a creature. I played him as an enchantment never expecting him to turn.
The top tier decks dont care about Athreos. Storm, Burn, Amulet Titan, Boggles, Eldrazi (all), taking turns. They just play their game and win.
I like Athreos and I really wished him to work in my builds. He almost seemed helpful in the w/g humans match up and mono G stompy. Both were long drawn out games with board stalls. I credit him for creating the board stall. My opponents never/rarely attacked if I could chump block with him in play, In both cases my opponents waited untill they had Mass go wide damage able to end game at end of combat.
I think Athreos, god of Passage might be better in a build with less tokens.
I want to ask, does nobody run Oketra the True? She seems like a good fit, we have no four drops.
Ranger of Eos? I run 3 in my deck.
Chad ally of Zendicar? I'm waiting for the price to lose a bit, I think this is more synergistic. It can more or less do what Oketra does, but also create an anthem effect if needed/about to die.
Same here waiting on price drop. I did want Oketra but price spiked before release.
I have thought of legion's landing but I cant see it really mana ramping a lot. Maybe angel turn 4.
Would be great in a w/b spirit token deck as a 4 of with small pox.
Ranger of Eos can someone explain what this card really does. All i seem to have when i draw him is a slow durdelrer that nets me a couple but in reality it all seems far to late for a 4 mana card. I always seem to think i d rather he was a Souls/Procession.
His strength is in the ability to fetch and thin your deck out so you can hit the cards you really want instead of 1 drops. The Ranger is a utility card, he refills your hand late game. The refill can allow you to play into life gain (sister,sister) or allow you to set up the martyr - Ascendant combo. The ranger can also pull 0 casting cost creatures as well, so its a special kind of tutor really.
Also the body of the Ranger is nothing to sneeze at either. Its a decent chump/trade blocker and can hurt if left alone.
Hope that helps clear it up a bit, he is an enabler.
All true.
How's Desecration Demon tickle you?
other sideboard cards, Pick the Brain and toxic Deluge
I also like sign in blood for this style deck. Either you can cast it targeting yourself or your opponent. The look on your opponent's face when you sign them, then Hymn them is worth it every time.:laugh2:
I'm a little new to this deck. Can someone explain the logic behind Infiltration Lens to me? I imagine the dream is to put it on a big Ajani's Pridemate and get way ahead while they have to chump block, but that seems definitively win more. What function does it serve again removal heavy decks like Jund and Abzan where the synergistic draws of Sister into Pridemate can't be relied upon to consistently win games.
The Logic is to try to gain card advantage by using the chump blockers against them. Pridemate is only good if he has an open field to swing into.
Honor the pures also give us a decent sister to place this equipment onto. Its more of a Tax. Card Advantage or Damage. Trying to make the trades uneven for them. An opponent might be less likely to block a 1/1 creature if you gain 2 cards for the block.
Im trying it out to see if I like it in the deck, but its usually the first card I switch out when ever I readjust my deck.
I really believe that you shouldn't play Spectral Procession without a full set. The card is too damn good.
your right. I thought of this today, and questioned why I ran 3. Why Lingering souls as a 4 of. When I first built the deck it was budget using cards I had and fillers. I had the LS but not the specters. As I play tested and play the deck I had bad hands where specter was a 4 mana cost to play; not all the time but it hurt to have it at 4. So I never ordered or looked for the 4th copy. My deck has evolved since then and a play set would be great.
My Jund record is terrible. 3 games won out of 12 games/ 1 match up won out of 4 matches.
Quote from from= "BoBoCTiberius " Agree on Mirran and Thalias as solid options, though Militant is a little weak. Anything that doesn"t have resistance to K-Command is a tough sell for me (I"m also not sure just keeping them off instant and sorceries in the yard is enough.) Eidolon is an interesting thought. It either eats a removal or makes them play fair. Unfortunately, they are able to curve into a hand that can hurt us badly pretty easily, which may make it not as relevant a card to bring in [/quote »
Militant is weak, but it can swap out for a sister and disrupts their Ooze and Goyphs. Its a cheap rest in peace. Eidolon is a decent blocker that should slow them down so they cant take out too many spirits.
[quote from="lotusmonk »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/490942-soul-sisters?comment=4409"]If you're going to play RIP, which I understand, wouldn't Spectral Procession Strictly be better than Lingering Souls.
I played with Spectral Procession AND Lingering Souls. Some players think they should side out Lingering Souls when they side in RIP. I disagree, you keep Lingering Souls even if you play RIP.
Spirit play is the way, I play 4 Lingering souls, and 3 processions. 4 honor the pure. Mikaeus the lunach as a 5th.
Jund and Abzan (they play a similar card pool), the best stratagem is to go wide or really big take as much life as you can from them. Killing Bob and giving them a land sucks but the card draw eats us alive. My current plan is spirits and disruption. Keylime is only good in opening hand. Turn 4 its too late damage is done. Therefore its not good enough. I assume when I play against jund/abzan that my first 2 creatures will die. I need a hand of 3 mana. I sideboard in Eidlon of the rhetoric (1/4) is a great blocker and helps us develop; Rest in peace; Wrath of god, dusk//dawn; Ghost Quarter; Infiltration Lens. I sideboard out 2 sisters and slower cards. I try to go wide and beef my guys up, hit them hard fast and often. We dont have enough removal to deal with all the bad guys jund/abzan can muster. The planeswalkers either Lilly are just bad for us, they ussually get 2 turns in. The longer the game goes the worst our chances of winning get.
Personally bloodmoon would be great in this match-up. If you can keep Jund/abzan off mana the match-up goes much better. I tried better removal off color but the mana is too hard to get (fatal Push)(bolt).
Other options I dont play, dryad militant, mirrian crusader, Thalia guardian, the new Thalia is good as well.
Ive already sideboarded Infilrtation lens,I want to play it but dont know what to cut. I took out the two archangels now and put back in Martyrs of Sands.
Ive also put in dusk//dawn, sideboard another dusk//dawn and wrath of God. Im thinking Ill try to out recover my opponents. Martyr over angel just because the possible fast turn 2, and better recursion with Athreos and dusk//dawn. Martyr was lack luster late game but Im hoping with athroes martyr can be a lighting bolt.
FNM update
been busy this week so update is very late. Actually so busy that I played only 20 lands in my deck by mistake, I was adjusting the deck and sideboard, but ran out of time during the week so I just grabbed and went.
so I went 2-2-0
win vs Jund 2-1-0
loss vs Amulet Titan (no bloom) 0-2-0
win vs Burn 2-0-0
loss vs jund 0-2-0
overall thoughts; this deck plays well with light mana. Athreos, god of passage has not seen enough play to make a strong judgement yet; turn 3 drop is a very busy place in this deck. Best strategy verses burn seems to be to let them have 3 turns unanswered, play non-creature spells let them deplete their hand then put out the life gain. I tried out some cards monastery mentor , Infiltration Lens and Skirsdag High Priest . These additions were to deal with board stalls and to help push forward the attack. I took out 2 ghost quarters and baby gideon. Only Monastery Mentor saw play, and was quickly board wiped.
what I recall
match 1
Jund
g1- win picked at him with spirits
g2- loss
g3 - win he got mana screwed on 2 lands
1-2 games were a bit grindy and hard fought
match 2
amulet titan bloomless
g1 and g2 were both losses with him comboing titans. I kept poor hands (slow) I did mulligan but still. Mana screwed 2nd game but I still put up a fight. Had 2 lands for a few turns restricting my plays. Athreos was hidden under windbrisk both games early, but I never flipped because I needed the mana and I had a board of tokens. Even if I flipped he could have taken the damage and would have. The pridemates were more than equal to his titans but double strike/trample is still double strike/trample. I still forced him into multiple turns to finish me off. I had mentor out with a great field of spirits and sisters, held back more spells for next turn but he engineered explosions and wiped with a spell. I dont feel the match up is unwinable but does require a good hand.
Match 3
Burn
2 wins
g1- I let the burn player play his hand out while I refuse to play my weak targets. turn 1 windbrisk, hide Ranger. turn 2 honor the pure, sister and cat. He played goblin guide so I got free land draws cheap for 2 life. His removal package gets weaker as my cat grows, and he cant race my life gain. I hold back gaining life waiting to build up sisters.
g2- same play as before, he sideboards in some lightning helixs and anti life gain. I sideboard in edilon of rhetoric, ghost prison, and rest in peace.
My sideboard cards are better and I win with edilon and rest in peace on table. I am slowed by my own rhetoric otherwise the game would be over so much sooner. I land an Angel and he concedes with sister triggers on stack.
Match 4
Jund
2 losses
G1- very grindy I think I path him to victory. The extra lands give him more juice. We trade back and forth but tamagolf and Oozes win.
G2- another grindy match, I sideboard in hate, rest in peace, dusk//dawn. The match is more about what sticks on the play field as we both kill off the others creatures and perminates. I boardwipe with Dusk. I rebuild with spirits he rebuilds with Olivia Voldarian. I land An Arch Angel, he steals Thune. Its GG as I dont draw a path and there are no more ways to boardwipe in my deck.
The Jund match ups are not easy. We have to win them fast and cant let the game go long as they draw better answers. Denial of their spells effectiveness sounds like a strong game plan against this type of deck. Lingeriung Souls, Athreos, Return of the Ranks, Wraths of god. We can rebuild better and more efficiently than they can. Our spells require 2 for 1 answers and are cheap compared to the responses. Gophs and oozes can get big but can be chumped all day by us. Its going long into this that we get beat down.
I main boarded this card in several months ago. I have played 22 matches with him in. In most matches he did show up. Unfortunately he was never relevant and his ability never triggered. My main reason for including him was for the jund/abzen, DS builds and to hose other decks. The jund match up is still a tough win for me. Against the black decks Athreos is discarded (thoughtseize) from my hand before Im able to use him. The mana cost and the cmc made him take longer to put into play, against these decks.
The games that he did see play (not against Jund) he was unnecessary, because I was already winning.
In my build I run 7-8 spirits (lingering souls, spectral procession), these creatures are anti synergy with Athreos. No body will pay 3 life to put a token in the graveyard. Our deck relies heavily on spirits. The bird version might get very different results, I have not played that version ( I might someday).
3cmc is also a bit of a problem as it leads to awkward decision tree. Do I run the normal SS plan or try deviating into a more robust Bolt for a Sister style. Bolt for a sister style is Athreos in play and then lay down all the one drops and weenies. Trying to recover them as they die at opponents expense.
Trying to force your Opponent to take 3 damage as you sacrifice your Martyr of Sands.
Bolt for a sister style never worked. Modern is too fast for the pieces to fit. If I had the pieces I was already going to win without Athreos' help.
So the decision tree addition is bad and at the wrong turn of the game ( playing at T4-5 not great either).
hen it is in play my opponents are distracted by it and spend time trying to play around it. They even sideboard against it. Athreos is not a blocker and does not prevent my opponent from doing what he would do any way. So at best he wasted my opponents turn as my opponent learns the relevance to the board state.
Athreos is hard to turn into a creature. I played him as an enchantment never expecting him to turn.
The top tier decks dont care about Athreos. Storm, Burn, Amulet Titan, Boggles, Eldrazi (all), taking turns. They just play their game and win.
I like Athreos and I really wished him to work in my builds. He almost seemed helpful in the w/g humans match up and mono G stompy. Both were long drawn out games with board stalls. I credit him for creating the board stall. My opponents never/rarely attacked if I could chump block with him in play, In both cases my opponents waited untill they had Mass go wide damage able to end game at end of combat.
I think Athreos, god of Passage might be better in a build with less tokens.
return to the ranks or some other variant seems better vs Athreos.
Same here waiting on price drop. I did want Oketra but price spiked before release.
I have thought of legion's landing but I cant see it really mana ramping a lot. Maybe angel turn 4.
Would be great in a w/b spirit token deck as a 4 of with small pox.
His strength is in the ability to fetch and thin your deck out so you can hit the cards you really want instead of 1 drops. The Ranger is a utility card, he refills your hand late game. The refill can allow you to play into life gain (sister,sister) or allow you to set up the martyr - Ascendant combo. The ranger can also pull 0 casting cost creatures as well, so its a special kind of tutor really.
Also the body of the Ranger is nothing to sneeze at either. Its a decent chump/trade blocker and can hurt if left alone.
Hope that helps clear it up a bit, he is an enabler.
How's Desecration Demon tickle you?
other sideboard cards, Pick the Brain and toxic Deluge
I also like sign in blood for this style deck. Either you can cast it targeting yourself or your opponent. The look on your opponent's face when you sign them, then Hymn them is worth it every time.:laugh2:
4x Flagstone of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
5x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Windbrisk Heights
4x Path to Exile
3x Serra Ascendant
3x Soul Warden
3x Soul's Attendant
4x Adjani's Pridemate
4x Honor of the Pure
3x Auriok Champion
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
3x Ranger of Eos
2x Archangel of Thune
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Repel the Abominable
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Sundering Growth
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Worship
1x Wrath of God
[ d e c k ] stuff [ / d e c k ]
leave out the spaces.
Good luck and Hope you have fun at your local.
Warning issued for off-topic discussion. -MadMage
The Logic is to try to gain card advantage by using the chump blockers against them. Pridemate is only good if he has an open field to swing into.
Honor the pures also give us a decent sister to place this equipment onto. Its more of a Tax. Card Advantage or Damage. Trying to make the trades uneven for them. An opponent might be less likely to block a 1/1 creature if you gain 2 cards for the block.
Im trying it out to see if I like it in the deck, but its usually the first card I switch out when ever I readjust my deck.
your right. I thought of this today, and questioned why I ran 3. Why Lingering souls as a 4 of. When I first built the deck it was budget using cards I had and fillers. I had the LS but not the specters. As I play tested and play the deck I had bad hands where specter was a 4 mana cost to play; not all the time but it hurt to have it at 4. So I never ordered or looked for the 4th copy. My deck has evolved since then and a play set would be great.
My Jund record is terrible. 3 games won out of 12 games/ 1 match up won out of 4 matches.
Spirit play is the way, I play 4 Lingering souls, and 3 processions. 4 honor the pure. Mikaeus the lunach as a 5th.
Personally bloodmoon would be great in this match-up. If you can keep Jund/abzan off mana the match-up goes much better. I tried better removal off color but the mana is too hard to get (fatal Push)(bolt).
Other options I dont play, dryad militant, mirrian crusader, Thalia guardian, the new Thalia is good as well.
Ive also put in dusk//dawn, sideboard another dusk//dawn and wrath of God. Im thinking Ill try to out recover my opponents. Martyr over angel just because the possible fast turn 2, and better recursion with Athreos and dusk//dawn. Martyr was lack luster late game but Im hoping with athroes martyr can be a lighting bolt.
been busy this week so update is very late. Actually so busy that I played only 20 lands in my deck by mistake, I was adjusting the deck and sideboard, but ran out of time during the week so I just grabbed and went.
so I went 2-2-0
win vs Jund 2-1-0
loss vs Amulet Titan (no bloom) 0-2-0
win vs Burn 2-0-0
loss vs jund 0-2-0
overall thoughts; this deck plays well with light mana. Athreos, god of passage has not seen enough play to make a strong judgement yet; turn 3 drop is a very busy place in this deck. Best strategy verses burn seems to be to let them have 3 turns unanswered, play non-creature spells let them deplete their hand then put out the life gain. I tried out some cards monastery mentor , Infiltration Lens and Skirsdag High Priest . These additions were to deal with board stalls and to help push forward the attack. I took out 2 ghost quarters and baby gideon. Only Monastery Mentor saw play, and was quickly board wiped.
what I recall
match 1
Jund
g1- win picked at him with spirits
g2- loss
g3 - win he got mana screwed on 2 lands
1-2 games were a bit grindy and hard fought
match 2
amulet titan bloomless
g1 and g2 were both losses with him comboing titans. I kept poor hands (slow) I did mulligan but still. Mana screwed 2nd game but I still put up a fight. Had 2 lands for a few turns restricting my plays. Athreos was hidden under windbrisk both games early, but I never flipped because I needed the mana and I had a board of tokens. Even if I flipped he could have taken the damage and would have. The pridemates were more than equal to his titans but double strike/trample is still double strike/trample. I still forced him into multiple turns to finish me off. I had mentor out with a great field of spirits and sisters, held back more spells for next turn but he engineered explosions and wiped with a spell. I dont feel the match up is unwinable but does require a good hand.
Match 3
Burn
2 wins
g1- I let the burn player play his hand out while I refuse to play my weak targets. turn 1 windbrisk, hide Ranger. turn 2 honor the pure, sister and cat. He played goblin guide so I got free land draws cheap for 2 life. His removal package gets weaker as my cat grows, and he cant race my life gain. I hold back gaining life waiting to build up sisters.
g2- same play as before, he sideboards in some lightning helixs and anti life gain. I sideboard in edilon of rhetoric, ghost prison, and rest in peace.
My sideboard cards are better and I win with edilon and rest in peace on table. I am slowed by my own rhetoric otherwise the game would be over so much sooner. I land an Angel and he concedes with sister triggers on stack.
Match 4
Jund
2 losses
G1- very grindy I think I path him to victory. The extra lands give him more juice. We trade back and forth but tamagolf and Oozes win.
G2- another grindy match, I sideboard in hate, rest in peace, dusk//dawn. The match is more about what sticks on the play field as we both kill off the others creatures and perminates. I boardwipe with Dusk. I rebuild with spirits he rebuilds with Olivia Voldarian. I land An Arch Angel, he steals Thune. Its GG as I dont draw a path and there are no more ways to boardwipe in my deck.
The Jund match ups are not easy. We have to win them fast and cant let the game go long as they draw better answers. Denial of their spells effectiveness sounds like a strong game plan against this type of deck. Lingeriung Souls, Athreos, Return of the Ranks, Wraths of god. We can rebuild better and more efficiently than they can. Our spells require 2 for 1 answers and are cheap compared to the responses. Gophs and oozes can get big but can be chumped all day by us. Its going long into this that we get beat down.