First of all thanks for the feedback so far, this is all very helpful in my quest to finalise my list for the PPTQ season here in Melbourne! Some good points have been made.. I'll address a couple.
@ax92
Gearhulk is a house against Eldrazi Tron (as long as your deck can go to turn 6 and hit its land drops against them). It is also great against delve threats like Tasigur and Gurmag Angler. It also is a flash win-con that generates value ETB which ticks all the boxes for a control deck. I'm a big fan but you do have to build your deck to accomodate it and it would be horrible in a Queller/Geist list (although I've never tested it). It is also weak to Khologan's Command. The drop to 3 snapcaster mages was to accomodate the Gearhulk as I want better game vs. Eldrazi Tron, but once I test the list further I will inevitably move back to 4 snapcaster mages.
@zcowan
First of all I have to sadly say that Shadow of Doubt will not cause a Scapeshift player to sac his lands, as Scapeshift requires the player to sacrifice lands upon resolution not cast, and the Scapeshift player can simply choose not to sac lands. The card (shift) would be much less powerful if it were sac-on-cast. Responding to Scapeshift with SoD is more like using a hard-counter remand.
Next up on the PtE synergy, it is true that if the opponent drops an early big threat that we need to path we may not have the mana or resources to cast both SoD and PtE. However it is also empirically true that when we have mana for both spells, SoD makes PtE better. And while basic lands are not run in high numbers in modern, most decks will have enough basics to fetch after at least your first 2 PtE's. SoD is good here, but the PtE is an incidental bonus in my mind (an incidental bonus that makes it main-deckable in certain metas).
In terms of using ones second turn to nab a fetchland on turn 2 being a waste of a turn, I'm not sure that it is. If they have 1 less land then usually they are unable to make their turn 3 play, or will play sub-optimally that turn and not do much threatening. At the very least hitting a fetch on turn 2 is a 2-mana, cantripping land destruction spell. If any LD spell actually gave us a cantrip and cost 2 mana then we would all be howling its praises, so I'm not so quick to dismiss the value of this play.
There are indeed things that we would rather just counter and deal with that way - for example Primeval Titan is better countered than allowed to resolve, even with SoD in hand to stop the ETB Search trigger. But in most of my examples above a counterspell and a SoD have examctly the same effect, but SoD draws a card. Counterspells trade 1-for-1. SoD trades 1 for 0 in essence. In fact, I am of the opinion that in almost ANY circumstance where both SoD and Logic Knot/Mana Leak can hit a target, SoD is a more efficient spell by a country mile. Again it's all about 'draw a card'.
Finally on the issue of 'tempo'... tempo is a funny word to use a lot of the time because it's ambiguous. I regard tempo as manifestation of board state (I guess others would define it differently). For example, remand is a perfect tempo card, allowing you to time-walk an opponents turn 2/3 play while remaining card-neutral, and then letting you resolve your turn 3 play 'ahead' of the natural board state. SoD isn't exactly tempo in the same manner but I sure feel way ahead on tempo when they crack a fetch when i have SoD in hand, as it will essentially allow me to resolve my turn 3 or 4 play (or hold up the relevant turn 3 or 4 interaction) while my opponent is still working on the plays that his depleted mana base will allow.
PPTQ's this weekend and FNM tonight, I'll let you know how it performs!
Geist/Queller lists may not have space in the main-deck, true. I play a different list, but regardless, what better sideboard card is there for us against TitanShift?
Hitting the Valakut player with Crumble to Dust may work once against a bad Valakut player who gives you a look at the card before going off. That is it. Same goes for spreading seas, molten rain, etc. Sure we can jam a geist or queller and race but anger of the gods and sweltering suns wreck that plan unless the player has trimmed copies (again, bad Valakut players will probably do this more often agaisnt Jeskai than good ones).
More so than that... it's hardly durdle. It's oppressive.... many lines of play for me have gone T2/T3 pass play, EOT opponent cracks fetch, i respond with SoD and ghost quarter his off-colour source. Pass to opponent who has 2 less land than he planned that turn, and no off-colour source, and me having a full grip. Just as brutal is to slam geist the turn after a SoD with them 1 mana behind or off-colour denied. Seems to have a good case for both draw-go and tempo plays. Hitting a land will always be a great tempo play. Hitting a scapeshift or a gifts is close to game-winning.
If we take the metrics for sideboard cards to be worthy we need;
a) the card to be a bomb in a certain match-up
or
b) the card hits multiple match-ups
I'm pretty sure my points 1-7 of my previous post show the card fits in both catagories. If 'durdling' is denying a land or stopping a game-winning combo piece then I sure love to durdle!
By the way I also love Desolate Lighthouse. An absolute house in control mirrors, but I run my GQ/SoD package so don't have room for more colourless lands
Here's my current I-love-to-durdle list, somewhere in between and permutating around a Habikiri list and a Wafo-Tapa list.
The only thing I often consider changing is Gideon, AoZ, but he keeps winning me games so obviously I am just twitching at sorcery-speed 4-drops for no reason. Just got my hands on a V-clique so testing that in the 3rd Geist slot in the SB. I also sometimes miss my 4th snappy. So the list is not settled quite yet...
All this talk about Ghost Quarter's utility has made me wonder why Shadow of Doubt been neglected by UWx control for so long? It really is a blowout when it has a target, almost never dead, and when it is dead it cantrips at instant speed.
These are just the things it's done for me regularly since I've run it in my 75 and I now run 2 copies main-deck. I'm sure I've missed other good things it hits. Points 1 and 7 are universal benefits. Point 2 is almost universal in modern. Points 3, 5 and 6 (especially 5) show power against some weak match-ups for Jeskai that have high metagame shares currently (admittedly more useful Vs. traditional tron rather than Eldrazi tron but still not dead against Eldrazi).
Apart from the double-blue mana cost am I missing something here as to why so few lists run it? In my eyes double-blue isn't even an issue for most lists as we run Cryptic Command and Logic Knot anyway.
TheAller has tested Valerous Stance and liked it enough to run 2 in his 75. I like the card in a Queller list but haven't tested it thoroughly. Another to consider in a more aggressive stance would be Boros Charm but this doesn't answer DS and Eldrazi.
There is no consensus on the correct number of Cryptic Command from the lists that have been posting results recently IMO. Some go-bigger lists play 3 cyptics but forego the 4th for other bomb sorceries (usuallly verdicts and planeswalkers). Some geists lists posting results have had as low as 2 cryptics, and some queller lists with good results have been running either 3 or 4 with no other spells costing 4 or more and plenty of early interaction.
I personally love the go-bigger style of Jeskai Control. Today's midrange decks are too big for bolt/helix/electrolyze, so unless we go under Eldrazi Tron and Deaths Shadow (as queller lists sometimes can via tempo) then we have to go bigger to answer them. Keeping a healthy (6-8) number of burn spells main-deck is still essential in giving us the edge over things like affinity and counters company though, and also to keep our g1 against low to the ground aggro positive.
P.S. @TheAnnihilator thanks for picking up on my error... definately was referring to Guillaume
@Magpie842, I have been playing around with variations on Habikiri's Control list which seems to play similarly greedily to the one you are describing It's a blast. Check out his last 3 deck-lists on MTGTop8 @ http://mtgtop8.com/search?player=habakiri
Wilfred Wafo-Tapa (if I have spelt that correctly) also runs some jeskai builds that go 'larger' with Gearhulk, Sphinx's Revalation, and Desolate Lighthouse main-deck. I believe these are his deck-lists that have posted results most recently, @ http://mtgtop8.com/search?player=MrCafouillette
I run something similar to the Habikiri main-deck but my sideboard is quite different, as I like to run 3 Geist of Saint Traft in the board for match-ups that we have to be the aggressor in. The main-deck is quite slow, but more favoured against all Eldrazi and Shadow variants than any other Jeskai list IMO.
There are different theories regarding the boarding out of amulets vs. K-Command but I don't think either is 'correct', despite most people agreeing that it's not a bad plan. I feel like boarding out Sakura-Tribe Scouts vs. GDS is definately correct but there is more room to debate the amulets. Leaving them in means you leave your combo potential relatively in-tact, taking them out removes the potential but prevents blow-outs. When I run Academy Ruins in my 75 I NEVER board out a single amulet EVER because of how powerful they make the deck, and the fact that I have insurance. Academy ruins doesn't necessarily prevent a blow-out but it means that if you had combo potential and it was stopped by a k-command on an Amulet, then you can still combo the turn after.
I didn't check out the LSV games thoroughly but I do agree that Baloth is underwhelming vs. Tasigur, Fish, Shadow. However, if the line of play we are thinking about was when Kanister pacted for Baloth as a response to Thoughtsieze, then despite Baloth being underwhelming as a 4/4, I don't see a better line of play as a response. If he didn't pact for Baloth he would have simply discarded to 0 with no board presence, no?
For now I've decided to box my Amulet Titan deck until after the PPTQ and RPTQ season here in Melbourne. This is not really a meta-call, it's actually a budget and enjoyment call. I've been smashing amulet for a while and STILL love it to death, high enjoyment factor from this deck. But I can't get my hands on Groves before the events start, and I feel groves/relics are the way to build to the meta for a bigger event.
I've also been able to finally finish my long-term project of building into Jeskai, and I'll be sleeving up Jeskai Control for the coming PPTQ.
Don't worry though, I'll be back on Amulet Titan again, and if Death's Shadow is still terrorising the top tables after the PPTQ season then I will definately be getting my hands on Groves so that I can choose whether or not to run the deck at a competitive event.
I have heavily considered both Valerous Stance and Boros Charm and your logic behind running Valerous main-deck is good, especially with Queller AND geist in your list. The math on the 3 toughness (helix, bolt) and 4 toughness (Stance) is pretty complimentary too.
I can see myself swapping out Blessed Alliance for it. However, the blessed alliance is there for basically one problem creature - Reality Smasher. I am usually pretty confident of removing/countering Matter Reshaper, Thought-Knot Seer and the like, but when a hasty, un-counterable Reality Smasher guns for my planeswalkers or my face I like to have an answer that doesn't mean card disadvantage. The fact that it is good game vs. Burn, Aggro and Shadow (as well as some other decks like Amulet Titan and Bogles) is icing on the cake.
The other one I was considering was Boros Charm. This one is more attractive when running Secure the Wastes. With Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and Secure the Wastes in the same list I end up creating quite the number of dudes over the course of the game. Boros Charm is a universal indestructability clause that protects a board of tokens against both my own and the opponents sweepers.
I will test Valerous Stance thanks to your reminder about the card!
Open question to all - I know Eldrazi Tron is relatively hard to hate out, but what's the best play for my style of deck against it? At the moment I'm leaning on Supreme Verdict, Blessed Alliance and chumping with tokens and walkers until I can throttle but my results are closer to 50/50 than I'd like.
Moving on to archeatypical pros and cons - Objectively I believe the Jeskai Flash list Ft. Spell Queller is the strongest Jeskai list going around, mainly because it does exactly what I describe in my above post (maximises the strength of jeskai by leveraging burn, control, and incremental card advantage), but it's less my style so this is what I have run for a few weeks of LGS events to mostly 3-1's or 3-0-1's (two weeks a draw due to time has cost me a 4-0). It is the base formula for what I will likely take to the upcoming PPTQ's and RPTQ in Melbourne. I guess you could label it as 'Gest-Tap-Out-Control' (?).
My main influences have been Jeskai Draw-Go and Habikiri's recent more tap-out orientated lists.
I wanted a set of varied, intractable, and complimentary threats/win-cons in the deck, and settled on 2x Geist of Saint Traft, 1x Elspeth, Knight Errant, 1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Jace AOT, Ajani Vengeant, Narset Transcendent, Secure the Wastes, and a 2nd Engineered Explosives have all been tested in the 3rd 'Other' spell slot and I have loved every single one of them, so which one gets the slot is going to be a meta call.
The logic behind the threat package is;
a) throttle (provides a fast clock once resolved)
b) intractability (hard to remove)
c) synergy (each makes the other better despite being able to win the game by themselves effectively).
I'm really enjoying that the deck is giving me what I wanted that draw-go lacked - the ability to hit the throttle on the opponent at any turn from 3 onwards. I also found that draw-go's threats were actually quite vulnerable. Colonnade dies to push/path/etc, Snappy dies to everything, and Gearhulk dies to artifact hate in addition to the other common offenders.
Main-boarding Geist of Saint Traft doesn't mean I want to play geist on turn 3 every game - many games I would rather slam a Verdict or cryptic on turn 4 to stabalise the board, and then follow it up with a geist on turn 5 while holding up logic knot or burn. But if what I see on the other side of the table indicates control or combo and I see an opening on turn 3 I most definitely will slam it and ride it to victory.
The only time I've played less than 4 snapcaster mages is when I have run 3x Snap / 1x Hulk, but in reality I think there are very few Jeskai lists that benefit from dropping from 4 to 3 snaps. We have to leverage our strengths, and Jeskai's strength is a quicker clock and the ability to turn the corner more rapidly than other control decks. Jeskai's other strength is dealing with creatures of all shapes and varieties. Both of these strengths are simply down to the fact that we play red for burn spells, and that each burn spell we draw can potentially be played twice through Snapcaster Mage, who himself puts out more damage on top.
Snap + burn is the main reason that Jeskai's strengths are as they are. If you start cutting snapcaster mages then you reduce your ability to leverage your strengths - in other words, you make the deck a less effective version of itself.
Culling snapcaster mages reduces our clock, and reduces the potential value we get out of each of our cards. In many cases our burn spells are actually inefficient, because 3 damage can't kill a lot of creatures, and we don't play enough burn for us to go straight to the face all the time and expect to go the distance. Snapcaster mage is the missing link here, allowing us to flash/block/bolt or bolt/flash/bolt creatures with up to 6 toughness, or do the same to the face to turn the corner like every other control deck wish they could. Thanks to snapcaster, we always have ways of making our burn efficient. Snapcaster mage also forms the core of our card advantage engine, along with Cryptic Command, Electrolyze, and whatever draw spells we may play. Needless to say that snapcaster mage, while operating as a card advantage engine in its own right, increases our potential card advantage when flashing back draw spells or cantrips.
TLDR; Snapcaster mage is the most essential part of Jeskai's unique ability to turn the corner with a quick clock, and is a card advantage engine that makes almost every one of the key cards in our deck better. Dropping from the full play-set is, in, my opinion, playing away from the archetypes strengths and makes the other cards in your deck worse than if you were running the full 4.
Cutting U-Pact main-deck wouldn't be the end of the world. There is quite a bit of path to exile where I play, so it often is almost like copy #5 of Primeval Titan when trying to force through removal, and the broad ranging utility on top of that means I prefer mine in the MD.
Tested reason // believe tonight with 1x Courser, 2x Reason // Believe, 3x Serum Visions. Was not too impressed with the card but it only came up twice in 4 rounds. Mostly it just sat in the yard and i never got into a situation where I knew there was a creature on top of the library that I wanted.
@ax92
Gearhulk is a house against Eldrazi Tron (as long as your deck can go to turn 6 and hit its land drops against them). It is also great against delve threats like Tasigur and Gurmag Angler. It also is a flash win-con that generates value ETB which ticks all the boxes for a control deck. I'm a big fan but you do have to build your deck to accomodate it and it would be horrible in a Queller/Geist list (although I've never tested it). It is also weak to Khologan's Command. The drop to 3 snapcaster mages was to accomodate the Gearhulk as I want better game vs. Eldrazi Tron, but once I test the list further I will inevitably move back to 4 snapcaster mages.
@zcowan
First of all I have to sadly say that Shadow of Doubt will not cause a Scapeshift player to sac his lands, as Scapeshift requires the player to sacrifice lands upon resolution not cast, and the Scapeshift player can simply choose not to sac lands. The card (shift) would be much less powerful if it were sac-on-cast. Responding to Scapeshift with SoD is more like using a hard-counter remand.
Next up on the PtE synergy, it is true that if the opponent drops an early big threat that we need to path we may not have the mana or resources to cast both SoD and PtE. However it is also empirically true that when we have mana for both spells, SoD makes PtE better. And while basic lands are not run in high numbers in modern, most decks will have enough basics to fetch after at least your first 2 PtE's. SoD is good here, but the PtE is an incidental bonus in my mind (an incidental bonus that makes it main-deckable in certain metas).
In terms of using ones second turn to nab a fetchland on turn 2 being a waste of a turn, I'm not sure that it is. If they have 1 less land then usually they are unable to make their turn 3 play, or will play sub-optimally that turn and not do much threatening. At the very least hitting a fetch on turn 2 is a 2-mana, cantripping land destruction spell. If any LD spell actually gave us a cantrip and cost 2 mana then we would all be howling its praises, so I'm not so quick to dismiss the value of this play.
There are indeed things that we would rather just counter and deal with that way - for example Primeval Titan is better countered than allowed to resolve, even with SoD in hand to stop the ETB Search trigger. But in most of my examples above a counterspell and a SoD have examctly the same effect, but SoD draws a card. Counterspells trade 1-for-1. SoD trades 1 for 0 in essence. In fact, I am of the opinion that in almost ANY circumstance where both SoD and Logic Knot/Mana Leak can hit a target, SoD is a more efficient spell by a country mile. Again it's all about 'draw a card'.
Finally on the issue of 'tempo'... tempo is a funny word to use a lot of the time because it's ambiguous. I regard tempo as manifestation of board state (I guess others would define it differently). For example, remand is a perfect tempo card, allowing you to time-walk an opponents turn 2/3 play while remaining card-neutral, and then letting you resolve your turn 3 play 'ahead' of the natural board state. SoD isn't exactly tempo in the same manner but I sure feel way ahead on tempo when they crack a fetch when i have SoD in hand, as it will essentially allow me to resolve my turn 3 or 4 play (or hold up the relevant turn 3 or 4 interaction) while my opponent is still working on the plays that his depleted mana base will allow.
PPTQ's this weekend and FNM tonight, I'll let you know how it performs!
Hitting the Valakut player with Crumble to Dust may work once against a bad Valakut player who gives you a look at the card before going off. That is it. Same goes for spreading seas, molten rain, etc. Sure we can jam a geist or queller and race but anger of the gods and sweltering suns wreck that plan unless the player has trimmed copies (again, bad Valakut players will probably do this more often agaisnt Jeskai than good ones).
More so than that... it's hardly durdle. It's oppressive.... many lines of play for me have gone T2/T3 pass play, EOT opponent cracks fetch, i respond with SoD and ghost quarter his off-colour source. Pass to opponent who has 2 less land than he planned that turn, and no off-colour source, and me having a full grip. Just as brutal is to slam geist the turn after a SoD with them 1 mana behind or off-colour denied. Seems to have a good case for both draw-go and tempo plays. Hitting a land will always be a great tempo play. Hitting a scapeshift or a gifts is close to game-winning.
If we take the metrics for sideboard cards to be worthy we need;
a) the card to be a bomb in a certain match-up
or
b) the card hits multiple match-ups
I'm pretty sure my points 1-7 of my previous post show the card fits in both catagories. If 'durdling' is denying a land or stopping a game-winning combo piece then I sure love to durdle!
By the way I also love Desolate Lighthouse. An absolute house in control mirrors, but I run my GQ/SoD package so don't have room for more colourless lands
Here's my current I-love-to-durdle list, somewhere in between and permutating around a Habikiri list and a Wafo-Tapa list.
4x Serum Visions
4x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
2x Shadow of Doubt
1x Think Twice
2x Mana Leak
2x Logic Knot
2x Electrolyze
3x Cryptic Command
3x Supreme Verdict
Creatures (4)
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Torrential Gearhulk
Other (3)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Engineered Eplosies
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Celestial colonnade
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand
1x Arid Mesa
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Spirebluff Canal
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Mystic Gate
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Stony Silence
2x Wear // Tear
1x Dispel
2x Counterflux
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Rest in Peace
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
The only thing I often consider changing is Gideon, AoZ, but he keeps winning me games so obviously I am just twitching at sorcery-speed 4-drops for no reason. Just got my hands on a V-clique so testing that in the 3rd Geist slot in the SB. I also sometimes miss my 4th snappy. So the list is not settled quite yet...
Shadow of Doubt;
1) turns ghost quarter into strip mine
2) denies fetchlands
3) denies expedition map or sylvan scrying on the play or on the draw if the opponent doesn't know you have it
4) denies Chord of Calling
5) denies most of Valakut decks payoff and ramp cards (scapeshift, summoner's pact, primeval titan triggers, search for tomorrow, farseek, sakura-tribe elder, hour of promise, etc.)
6) denies merchant scroll and gifts ungiven
7) makes path to exile better
These are just the things it's done for me regularly since I've run it in my 75 and I now run 2 copies main-deck. I'm sure I've missed other good things it hits. Points 1 and 7 are universal benefits. Point 2 is almost universal in modern. Points 3, 5 and 6 (especially 5) show power against some weak match-ups for Jeskai that have high metagame shares currently (admittedly more useful Vs. traditional tron rather than Eldrazi tron but still not dead against Eldrazi).
Apart from the double-blue mana cost am I missing something here as to why so few lists run it? In my eyes double-blue isn't even an issue for most lists as we run Cryptic Command and Logic Knot anyway.
I personally love the go-bigger style of Jeskai Control. Today's midrange decks are too big for bolt/helix/electrolyze, so unless we go under Eldrazi Tron and Deaths Shadow (as queller lists sometimes can via tempo) then we have to go bigger to answer them. Keeping a healthy (6-8) number of burn spells main-deck is still essential in giving us the edge over things like affinity and counters company though, and also to keep our g1 against low to the ground aggro positive.
P.S. @TheAnnihilator thanks for picking up on my error... definately was referring to Guillaume
Wilfred Wafo-Tapa (if I have spelt that correctly) also runs some jeskai builds that go 'larger' with Gearhulk, Sphinx's Revalation, and Desolate Lighthouse main-deck. I believe these are his deck-lists that have posted results most recently, @ http://mtgtop8.com/search?player=MrCafouillette
I run something similar to the Habikiri main-deck but my sideboard is quite different, as I like to run 3 Geist of Saint Traft in the board for match-ups that we have to be the aggressor in. The main-deck is quite slow, but more favoured against all Eldrazi and Shadow variants than any other Jeskai list IMO.
I didn't check out the LSV games thoroughly but I do agree that Baloth is underwhelming vs. Tasigur, Fish, Shadow. However, if the line of play we are thinking about was when Kanister pacted for Baloth as a response to Thoughtsieze, then despite Baloth being underwhelming as a 4/4, I don't see a better line of play as a response. If he didn't pact for Baloth he would have simply discarded to 0 with no board presence, no?
For now I've decided to box my Amulet Titan deck until after the PPTQ and RPTQ season here in Melbourne. This is not really a meta-call, it's actually a budget and enjoyment call. I've been smashing amulet for a while and STILL love it to death, high enjoyment factor from this deck. But I can't get my hands on Groves before the events start, and I feel groves/relics are the way to build to the meta for a bigger event.
I've also been able to finally finish my long-term project of building into Jeskai, and I'll be sleeving up Jeskai Control for the coming PPTQ.
Don't worry though, I'll be back on Amulet Titan again, and if Death's Shadow is still terrorising the top tables after the PPTQ season then I will definately be getting my hands on Groves so that I can choose whether or not to run the deck at a competitive event.
I have heavily considered both Valerous Stance and Boros Charm and your logic behind running Valerous main-deck is good, especially with Queller AND geist in your list. The math on the 3 toughness (helix, bolt) and 4 toughness (Stance) is pretty complimentary too.
I can see myself swapping out Blessed Alliance for it. However, the blessed alliance is there for basically one problem creature - Reality Smasher. I am usually pretty confident of removing/countering Matter Reshaper, Thought-Knot Seer and the like, but when a hasty, un-counterable Reality Smasher guns for my planeswalkers or my face I like to have an answer that doesn't mean card disadvantage. The fact that it is good game vs. Burn, Aggro and Shadow (as well as some other decks like Amulet Titan and Bogles) is icing on the cake.
The other one I was considering was Boros Charm. This one is more attractive when running Secure the Wastes. With Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and Secure the Wastes in the same list I end up creating quite the number of dudes over the course of the game. Boros Charm is a universal indestructability clause that protects a board of tokens against both my own and the opponents sweepers.
I will test Valerous Stance thanks to your reminder about the card!
Open question to all - I know Eldrazi Tron is relatively hard to hate out, but what's the best play for my style of deck against it? At the moment I'm leaning on Supreme Verdict, Blessed Alliance and chumping with tokens and walkers until I can throttle but my results are closer to 50/50 than I'd like.
My main influences have been Jeskai Draw-Go and Habikiri's recent more tap-out orientated lists.
I wanted a set of varied, intractable, and complimentary threats/win-cons in the deck, and settled on 2x Geist of Saint Traft, 1x Elspeth, Knight Errant, 1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Jace AOT, Ajani Vengeant, Narset Transcendent, Secure the Wastes, and a 2nd Engineered Explosives have all been tested in the 3rd 'Other' spell slot and I have loved every single one of them, so which one gets the slot is going to be a meta call.
The logic behind the threat package is;
a) throttle (provides a fast clock once resolved)
b) intractability (hard to remove)
c) synergy (each makes the other better despite being able to win the game by themselves effectively).
I'm really enjoying that the deck is giving me what I wanted that draw-go lacked - the ability to hit the throttle on the opponent at any turn from 3 onwards. I also found that draw-go's threats were actually quite vulnerable. Colonnade dies to push/path/etc, Snappy dies to everything, and Gearhulk dies to artifact hate in addition to the other common offenders.
Main-boarding Geist of Saint Traft doesn't mean I want to play geist on turn 3 every game - many games I would rather slam a Verdict or cryptic on turn 4 to stabalise the board, and then follow it up with a geist on turn 5 while holding up logic knot or burn. But if what I see on the other side of the table indicates control or combo and I see an opening on turn 3 I most definitely will slam it and ride it to victory.
4x Serum Visions
4x Path to Exile
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Mana Leak
2x Logic Knot
2x Electrolyze
1x Glimmer of Genius
3x Cryptic Command
2x Supreme Verdict
Creatures (6)
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Geist of Saint Traft
Other (3)
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Eiganjo Castle
3x Celestial colonnade
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Flooded Strand
1x Arid Mesa
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Spirebluff Canal
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Mystic Gate
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Counterflux
1x Shadow of Doubt
2x Spreading Seas
2x Rest in Peace
2x Wear // Tear
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Engineered Explosives
Snap + burn is the main reason that Jeskai's strengths are as they are. If you start cutting snapcaster mages then you reduce your ability to leverage your strengths - in other words, you make the deck a less effective version of itself.
Culling snapcaster mages reduces our clock, and reduces the potential value we get out of each of our cards. In many cases our burn spells are actually inefficient, because 3 damage can't kill a lot of creatures, and we don't play enough burn for us to go straight to the face all the time and expect to go the distance. Snapcaster mage is the missing link here, allowing us to flash/block/bolt or bolt/flash/bolt creatures with up to 6 toughness, or do the same to the face to turn the corner like every other control deck wish they could. Thanks to snapcaster, we always have ways of making our burn efficient. Snapcaster mage also forms the core of our card advantage engine, along with Cryptic Command, Electrolyze, and whatever draw spells we may play. Needless to say that snapcaster mage, while operating as a card advantage engine in its own right, increases our potential card advantage when flashing back draw spells or cantrips.
TLDR; Snapcaster mage is the most essential part of Jeskai's unique ability to turn the corner with a quick clock, and is a card advantage engine that makes almost every one of the key cards in our deck better. Dropping from the full play-set is, in, my opinion, playing away from the archetypes strengths and makes the other cards in your deck worse than if you were running the full 4.