Running spot LD to take out utility lands or uber powerful lands shouldn't be a question. Just do it. If anyone complains that you just took out their Coffers or the like, tell them to drink their juice box and take a nap like the baby they are.
Running spot LD to keep someone off a color. In most cases, I'm ok with this. It helps keep ppl from comboing off and the like. They should of worked better to color fix while they were building their deck. The only time that I MIGHT see this as a no no is if it's a very casual game and the person is getting screwed by their own deck (like turn 10 and they are missing a color in a 2-3 color deck). That's just me though.
Running MLD. I'm ok with this as long as it moves you to the win. What I'm not ok with is when someone plays MLD for no reason besides just to play a card. If you have it, make sure that it pushes you to the win. If it doesn't, don't play it.
Have you found a spot for Mirri yet? Also, have Dosan the Falling Leaf or Defense Grod ever been in the 99? There is a new blue control deck that has popped up in my meta and wondered if anyone had any experience with some anti control cards
[tab[Multiplayer control is mostly meta dependent... My meta tends to hate them out when they rear their heads... To the point that we start breaking out infect. IF control is an issue, I would say to break out everything that you can think of (either G 's U hate cards or the stuff that you mentioned already. make it so that the blue control deck knows that they won't have a fun day.
@Tev: Not sure what you mean by this. I mean, plenty of cards can exile themselves, they just can't typically do it infinitely with no other cards. Aetherling, Brago, King Eternal, and Norin the Wary are a few examples.
I think what he means by this (though he can correct me if I'm wrong (as always)) is that, this card has one change above the ones that you listed. The ones that you listed only trigger once a turn due to when they reenter the battlefield or when they can trigger the exile effect. Hostage Taker on the other hand, due to the wording on it, can be used (when triggers being stacked correctly) to bounce itself however many times you want in one step, thus abusing any ETB/LTB effects that are there. It's that one thing that makes it broken as *****balls (as written). It's "fair" to have cards that bounce themselves once a turn by themselves. When it gets broken is when a card can bounce itself over and over whenever it wants, however many times it wants. In someways, this card is more broken then DEN. DEN and (insert usual combo piece) means GG with a third card to abuse it. This card triggers any ETB/LTB effect by itself for usually less mana then DEN. Things like this is why Marath got a pre-release errata because it could spawn a 0/0 token...
Vindictive Lich is good and I definitely recommend cutting Treasure Keeper if your lists feel that this new card is better.
Also, I have some questions on a card that some of you may run. That card is Chasm Skulker.
How good is it in your lists? I'm thinking of trying out a very similar card in Hangarback Walker but with a few key differences. The reason I was thinking about it is because Genesis Chamber is actually quite strong in the affinity build.
A) You don't get a "free" add-on +1/+1 counter in your draw steps to go with the counter from dethrone. You also don't get counters for drawing cards
B) However, the tokens are flying thopter artifacts and you do get modular synergy. It also on average costs 1cmc less.
C) Unlike Chasm Skulker, when this thing dies it doesn't come back.
It is very likely that I'm cutting one of my six drops for this card if it is worthy of inclusion.
I think you answered your own question about Chasm Skulker.. Namely with the easier and cheaper +1/+1 counters and that you can recur it. Though, someone else can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Well, here we go boys and girls! Our second time looking at a completed spoiler for a set! What we have here is Commander 2017!!! I will be giving my thoughts on any and every card that I think might be worth a look see in here.
Lands
Path of Ancestry - Ok... Now, let's see here. Due to our money hate, I don't see this as being quite good enough of an effect to run it in the main deck, But lets see if it works in the combo build... Including the commander, we have 10 targets that trigger scry.. It's tempting. What do you guys think? It'll help us hit gas at least for after the turn we drop Wort... Now that I say it... That in itself is worth it. Lets see what we can toss for it
Artifacts
Hammer of Nazahn - This might be worth a slot depending on your meta. I don't think that I'll run it in my deck though. Losing any one creature isn't a big deal for me. If you get hated on though, it might be worth it as both protection and the free equips that it can trigger. Herald's Horn - Not going in main deck. Reason being is that we don't need the card draw as much. Not to mention that the cost reduction isn't good enough for us. I'd rather run Goblin Warchief. In the combo build however it adds up more value. Hmmmm... Thoughts? Mirror of the Forebears - Maybe a worse splinter twin? Maybe?
Red
Bloodsworn Steward - Krenko decks want this card. Us, not so much. Damm Crimson Honor Guard - No... Just no. Doesn't work with any of our plans besides to MAYBE draw removal. I'd much rather play something that is worth baiting out removal over this card that doesn't do much. Disrupt Decorum - Doesn't help us. Sorry. Izzet Chemister - Now THIS card might be worth attempting to find a slot. Either just to reuse cards at will, or try to find a stupid way to loop something (there HAS to be a way to pull that off)... Not to mention, it's a gobbo itself. Kindred Charge - If we wanted this effect, we have something better in G. And we aren't using that... So... No thanks.
Green
Kindred Summons - Less good T&N maybe? Not worth it in main deck. The fact that it's a creature demi tutor that's INSTANT SPEED is worth a thought for the combo deck. I'll test it out Traverse the Outlands - Honestly... It's best case is likely a 5 CMC to grab 3 lands. Nope. Sorry.
So yeah. I don't think that this set has given us much of anything really. At least for main deck. I'll be testing the new cards for the combo build but right now, it's a bit of a crapshot. Poo. Oh well... Can't win them all I guess
So if you have a +1/+1 counter on a creature with embalm and it goes to the graveyard then you trigger embalm when the creature hit the graveyard do you get past the exile with marchesa or does triggering embalm take priority on the stack?
Just wondering is it possible to get past the embalm rules with Marchesa.
Had a few suggestions. I love this list, and was wondering if you've ever considered a few cards to go to the dome in case your combos fall through? With your commander, it seems Pyromancer's Goggles along with some burn spells like Banefire or Comet Storm would be really nasty. I'm not sure if these would dilute your combo-centric plan too much, but I think it would be nice in that those double as game enders (when aimed at the dome) or they can also serve as spot removal in a pinch?
Hey hey!! Wazup? Welcome to the page!!!
I first created this deck a few years ago and that version was a burn deck. It really REALLY wasn't good at all. That's why I chose to turn it into this list. Besides being unexpected to every other play group that you run across, it wins FAR more often then the burn version. Also, it's far more fun for everyone that's playing. Yes, it is fun to take out a person early game (or even a full table) with "random X-burn spell" route, it's very easy to stop that plan. Looking at the removal slot, even without cards that are there for just that purpose we have a few things.
All of these cards can double as removal. They also are parts of win cons. They also work better with the deck then running one or two burn spells. In a pinch they can also find ways of being ramp if needed.
It isn't so much the issue that I am afraid of diluting the combo aspect of the deck. Honestly, playing the deck out, combo doesn't happen as often as you'd think. I tried going the all in combo route even (see the 3rd deck list if you want to get an idea of just how "all in combo" we could really become). The pure combo version works so very much better then the burn route. That being said, the main deck is just as much of an improvement over the pure combo version as combo is an improvement over burn. How is that? I focused on the synergy of the entire deck. I made the parts of the deck work better as a functioning whole then just ramp into combo. I even took the combos out that didn't have a place in the deck besides being combo. Because, if you don't have the other parts of it, they are dead cards. Playing this deck, you start running into trouble if you start tunnel visioning into combo only. I honestly win more games long before I can finally get a full combo online. How the deck works together, I don't NEED to one shot anyone. But I am glad that I can due to decks that spit out ALL the tokens or ALL the lifegain. A properly built lifegain deck can gain more life then any amount of burn can take out. But combo wins can win over even having ALL the life, or having all the protection.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, the deck just doesn't need burn. Or at least not a one shot burn spell. The damaging tools that we have are not the one-and-done tools, but work all game long. I think that if you want to use a burn spell, you should go all in with that. You'd get better results that way. With a Wort deck, you could run some of the bigger flashy spells (mostly the G ramp that I don't run). But I'm trying to make the deck work as a unit.
Now... With my rant about burn spells out of the way and attempting to make a difference between combo and synergy in this deck out of the way...
Pyromancer's Goggles - I love this card. I really really do. It should go into more decks. Hell, I know a few decks out there that don't have any burn in them that should run this card. R/U handcycling decks get busted with this. So does B/R removal spells. But lets see here what issues I have with this in my decks.
It's a mana rock. This is bad because it can't be copied with Wort. I really don't want any ramp that doesn't work with her. Also, it only adds
It's 5. I think that it's a bit too much for a ramp spell.
It doesn't copy any of my ramp. At least all my other ramp spells help me ramp even more. Not to mention that it's also deck thinning.
It only works to copy 3 total cards. One of those cards being a card that should never need to be copied Ruination. I'm not sure that it's worth it to copy just two cards. IF I were to add this card, it's likely that I would want to add more cards that would trigger off with it. Right now, there's nothing that comes to mind to add.
With that being said. I like it. But it's currently a worse Fork. If we get blessed with a new red spawn creatures card, I'll give this another look. But until then, and likely even after that, nope. Or at least that's my current opinion. It might change later though.
It's true Jar of Eyeballs would be less of a target, but with how experienced my local players are, they know each of my decks and what they're capable of. If they feel my deck is a threat to their game plan, they're going to react, whether I'm using a well-known tutor engine or one that's less infamous.
Then just go ahead and use Marvel. It is the better choice after all
I'm not very impressed with Jar of Eyeballs, tbh. Have you had a lot of experience with it? On paper it does not impress me, but I have been dead wrong about cards before.
I've been in the same boat. But yeah. I run it in my stax version of Teysa, Orzhov Scion, and it has never let me down. Almost every other turn, I'm able to tutor for any kind of effect that I want at the time. Though, a good part of that is my fondness of packing an overabundance of cards that have the same effect (or close enough). So, yeah. grabbing a card out of the top 12-16 cards is effectively a tutor for me. And being able to do so every other turn is just gravy.
I will say that it IS a build around me card. Any deck that is planning on making good use out of it should be expecting to lose 2-4 creatures a turn. Every turn. But if that's what the deck does anyhoo, it should be run. It's also somewhat ok wrath protection in a way. You have it out. Someone nukes the board. You get a tutor for whatever you want to start recovering.
Or I could be wrong and it's just a pet card for me. But I at first didn't like it until I tried it out, so you might want to as well. It isn't as broken as Marvel, but it doesn't have as huge of a target on it's head either. But most things don't have as huge of a target as Marvel lol
Ok everyone!!! I'm here to list all of the changes that have happened since Hour of Devastation has come out! Some of the cards were from that set. Others were added due to ya managing to change my stubborn mind! The more impressive thing is that there have been changes to ALL 3 OF THE DECKLISTS!!!! OMFG! And here we go...
THE MAIN DECK!
- Courser of Kruphix + Firebrand Archer
Well... I finally found a slot for this card. The deck really wanted it and all. IT'S SO GOOD FOR US.
- Natural Connection + Far Wanderings
The instant speed was never a issue for me. Never came up and all. And there's a chance that I may hit the Threshold. So, worse case, they are the same card for me. One of them just may do better every once in a while.
THE BUDGET VERSION!!!
- Feroz's Ban + Firebrand Archer
I waited until the going prices were spoiled before I made this change. At what it is listed, I don't think that we'd have to worry about it going over our budget. And it's SO GOOD!!
- Natural Connection + Shamanic Revelation
So, without some of the more powerful cards that are in the other 2 decks, I thought that this deck could use some card draw. This one is quite a beast.
- Ranger's Path + Far Wanderings
Just trying to speed the deck up a bit
THE ALL COMBO VERSION!!!
- Nissa's Pilgrimage + Samut, the Tested
Ok... There is only one reason why I made this change. Her ult. Effectively it's a T&N that can't be copied. Quite good for our combos and all.
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh + Mana Echoes
Mana Echoes allows for a few more combos. Might as well put it in.
- Kyren Negotiations + Manamorphose
With Throne of the God-Pharaoh coming out, the Negotiations lost a lot of it's luster. So, I'm going to go with a nice piece of early game card draw. Turn 2 I can drop this, draw a card, and still cast a 2 drop ramp.
- Squirrel Nest + Uncage the Menagerie
So, yes. I took the nest combo out. I'm sorry. There is a good reason for that though. The combo just wasn't worth it. So, I hunted down another tutor for us that hits almost every creature that we'd want to see.I don't like the combo anymore because it only works with those 2 cards. At least with the other combos, you can find another card to use if the first one gets taken out. This combo, not so much
Yes, all of this has been updated in the changelogs for the different decks. I just wanted to put it out there. Hopefully in the next few days, I'll have everything needed changed so that I can re-apply for primer status. Hope you all enjoy this update.
As always, any other questions or comments are welcome.
I've been testing Mirage Mirror in some of my other decks, and it has been really good. I'm not positive that this deck wants it, but I should probably test it. Maybe I'll test it in place of some spot removal, maybe Dreadbore.
Also, I'm considering testing Aetherworks Marvel in place of Insidious Dreams. While I really like Insidious Dreams, I think we could get a lot of use out of the Marvel, considering all the permanents that hit the yard.
I figured that you'd like the god in there over the sword. The sword is powerful (though SofFandF is even more so) but it didn't do quite enough. Mainly the whole no trample part lol
Putting the deamon in for the other tutor is very much a better slot then I suggested. *tips hat off to you, slides you a shot of my firewater* Though.. You know, one day you'll likely have to start taking a look at the lords and start cutting them for better ones. Power creep is a ***** lol. At least with my Wort deck, it's likely that I'm just missing cards from sets that I wasn't around for lol.
The mirror is... Commander staple already. There are very few decks that wouldn't get use out of it. I don't have a better suggestion for a slot for it now... But I don't think that you should really be so quick to give up spot removal for the slot. But in most of my decks I tend to run a bit more spot removal then most, so it's likely just me.
Instead of 'Dreams, run either the Marvel or Jar of Eyeballs. Both of them break games for you. The Jar is a bit safer at the moment cause of the rep that Marvel got lately (I ONLY play commander and even I've heard some of the trouble Marvel caused).. Or run both, though I'd understand if you don't want the Jar.
And the three cards I thought I would single out are
1) Early Harvest - A MONSTER in this deck that works even better in a deck designed to only be running a single nonbasic
2) Nostalgic Dreams - which when conspired because the cards are discarded as an additional cost so you can pick them all right back up with the copy.
3) Manamorphose is not good in most Commander really good with Wort and Shamanic Revelation seems like a no brainier (not a lot of draw in that list)
Whoot whoot!! Another Wort player! Welcome to the thread!!!
Ok, so, my thoughts about those cards. Well, the first 3 cards that you mention all have a similar issue. With Wort out, they are awesomesause. Without her, they are sorta meh. But here's my deeper thoughts about them.
Early Harvest - Well, I've already talked about this in post #11 and I'll show it here. Reminds me that I need to update my "meta card choices" list.
-Early Harvest/ Battle Hymn - Yes, these cards can make a stupid amount of mana. Same could be said about Rude Awakening. Thing is, we don't need stupid amounts of just mana with this build. We really don't run any good mana sinks for all that mana. The deck is tuned to get around a lot of the issues that most Wort decks have. Needing ALL the mana to win. This deck wins with much less, so we can get in there while everyone else is worried about the "bigger threat" at the table. Honestly, while it doesn't look like it on paper, after playing the deck, having enough mana is never an issue. And for all the times that we need all that mana to combo off, the combo itself makes it, and these spells just don't do enough by themselves.-
Now, after saying that, I should mention this. We are running cards like Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Cryptolith Rite, and Earthcraft so a better ritual effect would be Firecat Blitz esp since we are also running the 3 token doublers. Just my thoughts.
Nostalgic Dreams - Yeah... This is just my opinion but this is mostly only good for us with Wort out. I really don't like having spells that we need her out to gain good value. By the time that there is anything that we would want back, we likely don't have enough cards in hand to pull it off. But that isn't a problem for us. We don't need graveyard recursion in this deck. How is that? The deck is built with almost too much redundancy. So very many cards in the list can take the part of any other card. Case in point. Once in a 4 person FFA game, one of my friends ramp'd out like mad and hit me with a very early KICKED Sadistic Sacrament! I still managed to come out on top in that game, even though he gutted the deck. That's one of the reasons why I don't like having tutors or GY recursion in the deck. I'd rather run more copies of the effects that I want. It also leads the rest of the table into a false sense of security if they see so many combo pieces in the bin. They don't expect you to still be a threat and will either ignore you, or actually come to your defense if someone tries to target you. Or at least until you drop another bomb and take the table out
Manamorphose and Shamanic Revelation - Now... Playing this deck for as long as I have, I've found that I don't really need card draw as much as you'd think. With all the ramp spells we have, We can really just start top decking bombs each turn. BUTT (heh heh heh, I said Butt) The other two decks that I have listed might want them. Likely Manamorphose in the high budget version, and Shamanic Revelation in the pure budget version... Hmmm
I will say this though. I looked at your list and noticed a card that I will be adding to my current list. Far Wanderings. I think that would be a pure upgrade over Natural Connection. The Instant speed has never come up, and Wanderings has a chance to grab more lands. They are the same CMC as well... So, ummm... Thank you? lol
Hello Osi! Welcome to the page!
My thoughts? Not worth it IMO.
They are creatures, so they don't work well with Wort.
They don't bring in tokens, hence they don't help with our token strategy.
While they both have either an ETB or a LTB effect, I see it as minor and not really worth the slots.
As I see it, they mostly count as minor rituals. Granted, with either one of our untap effects and either Kiki or Splinter Twin, they have the ability to combo off (though I think that they would also need a sac outlet as well), it's still not anything that I really want in the main deck. They are just too limited for the job. The budget list isn't running Kiki so it makes it only one card that they work well for. I'll think if they might find a slot in the all out combo list. Hmmmm...
Well... Just for the sake of arguing... If black is showing up so much in your meta, how's Stronghold Assassin working out for you lately? I personally love the card in a ton of my decks... But there is a LGS around me that I can't really use it at due to everyone running so much that it ends up a dead card way too often. I can use it at the other 2 LGS's around me, and my normal playgroup. Just not at that store. A lot of ppl would say that you are running more then enough removal so you could spare a slot (I don't think you're running enough myself but that's just me and I odd lol). If the assassin is being dead for you, it might be worth a slot.
Well, I would think that your next card to cut would be more likely Sword of Fire and Ice. I just think that you could run something better. Rather run a better equipment, but there is a few cards that just might work better. Just my thoughts on trying to find a non-lord slot here.
Running spot LD to take out utility lands or uber powerful lands shouldn't be a question. Just do it. If anyone complains that you just took out their Coffers or the like, tell them to drink their juice box and take a nap like the baby they are.
Running spot LD to keep someone off a color. In most cases, I'm ok with this. It helps keep ppl from comboing off and the like. They should of worked better to color fix while they were building their deck. The only time that I MIGHT see this as a no no is if it's a very casual game and the person is getting screwed by their own deck (like turn 10 and they are missing a color in a 2-3 color deck). That's just me though.
Running MLD. I'm ok with this as long as it moves you to the win. What I'm not ok with is when someone plays MLD for no reason besides just to play a card. If you have it, make sure that it pushes you to the win. If it doesn't, don't play it.
[tab[Multiplayer control is mostly meta dependent... My meta tends to hate them out when they rear their heads... To the point that we start breaking out infect. IF control is an issue, I would say to break out everything that you can think of (either G 's U hate cards or the stuff that you mentioned already. make it so that the blue control deck knows that they won't have a fun day.
I think what he means by this (though he can correct me if I'm wrong (as always)) is that, this card has one change above the ones that you listed. The ones that you listed only trigger once a turn due to when they reenter the battlefield or when they can trigger the exile effect. Hostage Taker on the other hand, due to the wording on it, can be used (when triggers being stacked correctly) to bounce itself however many times you want in one step, thus abusing any ETB/LTB effects that are there. It's that one thing that makes it broken as *****balls (as written). It's "fair" to have cards that bounce themselves once a turn by themselves. When it gets broken is when a card can bounce itself over and over whenever it wants, however many times it wants. In someways, this card is more broken then DEN. DEN and (insert usual combo piece) means GG with a third card to abuse it. This card triggers any ETB/LTB effect by itself for usually less mana then DEN. Things like this is why Marath got a pre-release errata because it could spawn a 0/0 token...
Herald's Horn - Not going in main deck. Reason being is that we don't need the card draw as much. Not to mention that the cost reduction isn't good enough for us. I'd rather run Goblin Warchief. In the combo build however it adds up more value. Hmmmm... Thoughts?
Mirror of the Forebears - Maybe a worse splinter twin? Maybe?
Crimson Honor Guard - No... Just no. Doesn't work with any of our plans besides to MAYBE draw removal. I'd much rather play something that is worth baiting out removal over this card that doesn't do much.
Disrupt Decorum - Doesn't help us. Sorry.
Izzet Chemister - Now THIS card might be worth attempting to find a slot. Either just to reuse cards at will, or try to find a stupid way to loop something (there HAS to be a way to pull that off)... Not to mention, it's a gobbo itself.
Kindred Charge - If we wanted this effect, we have something better in G. And we aren't using that... So... No thanks.
Traverse the Outlands - Honestly... It's best case is likely a 5 CMC to grab 3 lands. Nope. Sorry.
So yeah. I don't think that this set has given us much of anything really. At least for main deck. I'll be testing the new cards for the combo build but right now, it's a bit of a crapshot. Poo. Oh well... Can't win them all I guess
Nope... Doesn't work. sorry
Hey hey!! Wazup? Welcome to the page!!!
I first created this deck a few years ago and that version was a burn deck. It really REALLY wasn't good at all. That's why I chose to turn it into this list. Besides being unexpected to every other play group that you run across, it wins FAR more often then the burn version. Also, it's far more fun for everyone that's playing. Yes, it is fun to take out a person early game (or even a full table) with "random X-burn spell" route, it's very easy to stop that plan. Looking at the removal slot, even without cards that are there for just that purpose we have a few things.
- Warstorm Surge - also works as win con
- Goblin Sharpshooter - also win con
- Goblin Bombardment - also win con
- Lightning Crafter - also win con
- Thornbite Staff - also win con
All of these cards can double as removal. They also are parts of win cons. They also work better with the deck then running one or two burn spells. In a pinch they can also find ways of being ramp if needed.It isn't so much the issue that I am afraid of diluting the combo aspect of the deck. Honestly, playing the deck out, combo doesn't happen as often as you'd think. I tried going the all in combo route even (see the 3rd deck list if you want to get an idea of just how "all in combo" we could really become). The pure combo version works so very much better then the burn route. That being said, the main deck is just as much of an improvement over the pure combo version as combo is an improvement over burn. How is that? I focused on the synergy of the entire deck. I made the parts of the deck work better as a functioning whole then just ramp into combo. I even took the combos out that didn't have a place in the deck besides being combo. Because, if you don't have the other parts of it, they are dead cards. Playing this deck, you start running into trouble if you start tunnel visioning into combo only. I honestly win more games long before I can finally get a full combo online. How the deck works together, I don't NEED to one shot anyone. But I am glad that I can due to decks that spit out ALL the tokens or ALL the lifegain. A properly built lifegain deck can gain more life then any amount of burn can take out. But combo wins can win over even having ALL the life, or having all the protection.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, the deck just doesn't need burn. Or at least not a one shot burn spell. The damaging tools that we have are not the one-and-done tools, but work all game long. I think that if you want to use a burn spell, you should go all in with that. You'd get better results that way. With a Wort deck, you could run some of the bigger flashy spells (mostly the G ramp that I don't run). But I'm trying to make the deck work as a unit.
Now... With my rant about burn spells out of the way and attempting to make a difference between combo and synergy in this deck out of the way...
Pyromancer's Goggles - I love this card. I really really do. It should go into more decks. Hell, I know a few decks out there that don't have any burn in them that should run this card. R/U handcycling decks get busted with this. So does B/R removal spells. But lets see here what issues I have with this in my decks.
With that being said. I like it. But it's currently a worse Fork. If we get blessed with a new red spawn creatures card, I'll give this another look. But until then, and likely even after that, nope. Or at least that's my current opinion. It might change later though.
Then just go ahead and use Marvel. It is the better choice after all
I've been in the same boat. But yeah. I run it in my stax version of Teysa, Orzhov Scion, and it has never let me down. Almost every other turn, I'm able to tutor for any kind of effect that I want at the time. Though, a good part of that is my fondness of packing an overabundance of cards that have the same effect (or close enough). So, yeah. grabbing a card out of the top 12-16 cards is effectively a tutor for me. And being able to do so every other turn is just gravy.
I will say that it IS a build around me card. Any deck that is planning on making good use out of it should be expecting to lose 2-4 creatures a turn. Every turn. But if that's what the deck does anyhoo, it should be run. It's also somewhat ok wrath protection in a way. You have it out. Someone nukes the board. You get a tutor for whatever you want to start recovering.
Or I could be wrong and it's just a pet card for me. But I at first didn't like it until I tried it out, so you might want to as well. It isn't as broken as Marvel, but it doesn't have as huge of a target on it's head either. But most things don't have as huge of a target as Marvel lol
THE MAIN DECK!
- Courser of Kruphix + Firebrand Archer
Well... I finally found a slot for this card. The deck really wanted it and all. IT'S SO GOOD FOR US.
- Natural Connection + Far Wanderings
The instant speed was never a issue for me. Never came up and all. And there's a chance that I may hit the Threshold. So, worse case, they are the same card for me. One of them just may do better every once in a while.
THE BUDGET VERSION!!!
- Feroz's Ban + Firebrand Archer
I waited until the going prices were spoiled before I made this change. At what it is listed, I don't think that we'd have to worry about it going over our budget. And it's SO GOOD!!
- Natural Connection + Shamanic Revelation
So, without some of the more powerful cards that are in the other 2 decks, I thought that this deck could use some card draw. This one is quite a beast.
- Ranger's Path + Far Wanderings
Just trying to speed the deck up a bit
THE ALL COMBO VERSION!!!
- Nissa's Pilgrimage + Samut, the Tested
Ok... There is only one reason why I made this change. Her ult. Effectively it's a T&N that can't be copied. Quite good for our combos and all.
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh + Mana Echoes
Mana Echoes allows for a few more combos. Might as well put it in.
- Kyren Negotiations + Manamorphose
With Throne of the God-Pharaoh coming out, the Negotiations lost a lot of it's luster. So, I'm going to go with a nice piece of early game card draw. Turn 2 I can drop this, draw a card, and still cast a 2 drop ramp.
- Squirrel Nest + Uncage the Menagerie
So, yes. I took the nest combo out. I'm sorry. There is a good reason for that though. The combo just wasn't worth it. So, I hunted down another tutor for us that hits almost every creature that we'd want to see.I don't like the combo anymore because it only works with those 2 cards. At least with the other combos, you can find another card to use if the first one gets taken out. This combo, not so much
Yes, all of this has been updated in the changelogs for the different decks. I just wanted to put it out there. Hopefully in the next few days, I'll have everything needed changed so that I can re-apply for primer status. Hope you all enjoy this update.
As always, any other questions or comments are welcome.
I figured that you'd like the god in there over the sword. The sword is powerful (though SofFandF is even more so) but it didn't do quite enough. Mainly the whole no trample part lol
Putting the deamon in for the other tutor is very much a better slot then I suggested. *tips hat off to you, slides you a shot of my firewater* Though.. You know, one day you'll likely have to start taking a look at the lords and start cutting them for better ones. Power creep is a ***** lol. At least with my Wort deck, it's likely that I'm just missing cards from sets that I wasn't around for lol.
The mirror is... Commander staple already. There are very few decks that wouldn't get use out of it. I don't have a better suggestion for a slot for it now... But I don't think that you should really be so quick to give up spot removal for the slot. But in most of my decks I tend to run a bit more spot removal then most, so it's likely just me.
Instead of 'Dreams, run either the Marvel or Jar of Eyeballs. Both of them break games for you. The Jar is a bit safer at the moment cause of the rep that Marvel got lately (I ONLY play commander and even I've heard some of the trouble Marvel caused).. Or run both, though I'd understand if you don't want the Jar.
Whoot whoot!! Another Wort player! Welcome to the thread!!!
Ok, so, my thoughts about those cards. Well, the first 3 cards that you mention all have a similar issue. With Wort out, they are awesomesause. Without her, they are sorta meh. But here's my deeper thoughts about them.
Early Harvest - Well, I've already talked about this in post #11 and I'll show it here. Reminds me that I need to update my "meta card choices" list.
-Early Harvest/ Battle Hymn - Yes, these cards can make a stupid amount of mana. Same could be said about Rude Awakening. Thing is, we don't need stupid amounts of just mana with this build. We really don't run any good mana sinks for all that mana. The deck is tuned to get around a lot of the issues that most Wort decks have. Needing ALL the mana to win. This deck wins with much less, so we can get in there while everyone else is worried about the "bigger threat" at the table. Honestly, while it doesn't look like it on paper, after playing the deck, having enough mana is never an issue. And for all the times that we need all that mana to combo off, the combo itself makes it, and these spells just don't do enough by themselves.-
Now, after saying that, I should mention this. We are running cards like Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Cryptolith Rite, and Earthcraft so a better ritual effect would be Firecat Blitz esp since we are also running the 3 token doublers. Just my thoughts.
Nostalgic Dreams - Yeah... This is just my opinion but this is mostly only good for us with Wort out. I really don't like having spells that we need her out to gain good value. By the time that there is anything that we would want back, we likely don't have enough cards in hand to pull it off. But that isn't a problem for us. We don't need graveyard recursion in this deck. How is that? The deck is built with almost too much redundancy. So very many cards in the list can take the part of any other card. Case in point. Once in a 4 person FFA game, one of my friends ramp'd out like mad and hit me with a very early KICKED Sadistic Sacrament! I still managed to come out on top in that game, even though he gutted the deck. That's one of the reasons why I don't like having tutors or GY recursion in the deck. I'd rather run more copies of the effects that I want. It also leads the rest of the table into a false sense of security if they see so many combo pieces in the bin. They don't expect you to still be a threat and will either ignore you, or actually come to your defense if someone tries to target you. Or at least until you drop another bomb and take the table out
Manamorphose and Shamanic Revelation - Now... Playing this deck for as long as I have, I've found that I don't really need card draw as much as you'd think. With all the ramp spells we have, We can really just start top decking bombs each turn. BUTT (heh heh heh, I said Butt) The other two decks that I have listed might want them. Likely Manamorphose in the high budget version, and Shamanic Revelation in the pure budget version... Hmmm
I will say this though. I looked at your list and noticed a card that I will be adding to my current list. Far Wanderings. I think that would be a pure upgrade over Natural Connection. The Instant speed has never come up, and Wanderings has a chance to grab more lands. They are the same CMC as well... So, ummm... Thank you? lol
Any more thoughts guys and gals?
Hello Osi! Welcome to the page!
My thoughts? Not worth it IMO.
Well, I would think that your next card to cut would be more likely Sword of Fire and Ice. I just think that you could run something better. Rather run a better equipment, but there is a few cards that just might work better. Just my thoughts on trying to find a non-lord slot here.