Despite all, is a nice record. How it's your current list? Did you tried Sidewinder sliver?
And i would glad if you share some thoughs on sideboarding, specially against control and jund
I would bet on Sidewinder.
Striking is pretty good on defense, while Sidewinder incentive us to be on the aggro side.
Being slivers an aggro deck, I would choose Sidewinder.
I put a Striking on my deck from time to time, and it was good, but I think Sidewinder fits better.
Also, Sidewinder stacks, which it's a thing to consider.
Don't play two Strikings. Drawing the second usually feels awful.
Well, thats true, but we play Vial by the same reason Merfolk plays it: speed and flexibility (and color fixing as a plus).
I agree that a viable vial-less build would be nuts (since is a terrible card if not played in turn 1-2), but the great number of 2 drops makes it necessary.
Swapping the vial for a more elvesque configuration (more one drop slivers + mana slivers) could be an interesting experiment.
I found collected company to be a very good card in this deck. We can cast it by turn 3 with mana slivers, and we have a lot of good targets, since we like the accumulation of habilities in the field. Hitting a lord + blur sliver is very powerful, such as it is to hit two lords, a galerider + lord...
Sedge Sliver is also a hard card to evaluate. It's incredibly powerful and it let us to change gears between aggresive/deffensive, but it compromises too much the mana base. If I drop the Vial, I would drop Sedge sliver, something I'm not sold entirely.
If Dominaria gaves us one Sliver that can replace Sedge, I would go in that direction.
By now, I have tested some new configurations and I have some thoughts:
- Darkheart Sliver doesn't belong to mainboard (except as a meta call). It's a good card, but it doesn't help us to reach our main goal: kill our opponent as fast as we can.
- Necrotic Sliver is a 1x in main. As darkheart, it's powerful, but clunky. It makes the cut, since is fexible, and very potent in the late game, but we don't want to rely on it as our principal strategy (at least, in this build)
-Blur Sliver is awesome, and I would play 3 if i have room for one more 3 drop. It's a incredible target with CoCo, and it let us to do explosive things when combined with mana slivers.
-I feel more comfortable with 3 Sedge Sliver than 4. I could be wrong, but swapping a Sedge for the third Blur has performed pretty well for me.
-Leeching Sliver is a must. Not as a 4x, since it's pretty weak by its own, but 3 of it literally multiplies the amount of damage dealt per turn. I'm currently using a 3 - 3 split of Sedge and Leeching, and it works fine.
-The deck needs more one drops. We gain a lot on speed, we can curve better with vial, and they combo amazingly with Manaweft + Blur. Sidewinder Sliver is great, since it stacks, and incentives us to attack more. I'm playing 3, and I can't be more glad with it.
-I have made room for 3 Diffusion Sliver again. I'm still not sure if it's worth it, but my build is now faster, and I think I can benefit from the tempo gained with the protection.
-I don't play random 2-drops such as Sentinel Sliver or Cautery Sliver. The deck if filled with better 2-drops, and having an overload of them makes it difficult for the deck to curve smooth (another reason for playing a few more one drops).
Even when empowering the early part of the strategy, my build still has a strong late game. Sedge and Necrotic are still here, we still have pretty good targets for CoCo, and Sliver Hive gives me life when fighting control.
Combo is still a issue, but I have more chances to race them.
I would be glad to hear opinions about this, and I would post the whole list if someone is interested.
If I wasn't sure before, totally sure now... played traditional slivers at fnm tonight and finished 4-0-1 taking an ID in the finals.
Matches were:
Abzan midrange 2-0
Affinity 2-1
Abzan elves 2-1
8 rack 2-1
Kiki-exarch 4-0* we played 4 games for practice, and I won all 4.
Certain now that traditional slivers will be my list of choice for upcoming events.
I see you making very good results lately.
I would very glad (and I think not only me) to see some kind of primer, explaining card choices (specially the manabase), matchups and play tricks.
Star City Games has posted a pretty interesting list of Slivers http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36206_Video-Slivers-In-Modern.html
No Collected Co., no Sedge Sliver. Instead, it runs Shadow Sliver and... Bonesplitter? A Playset of Mindlash?
And what with that sideboard?
It seems interesting to look at. Any thoughts?
I'm curious, with the sudden uptick in human lists what changes can we expect in the meta? Sure there will be bandwagoners jumping on the human train, but what opposition to humans can we expect to see also be affective against us? I imagine a bunch of anger of the gods and pyroclasm type effects to come back into favor.
I don't think Pyroclasm will see play. Humans tend to grow out of reach very quickly.
I expect some tron and sweepers to rise up. The good news its that spell-based combo is pretty weak to humans, so, with some luck, we will see less ad nauseam and storm in the tables.
out of curiosity, how do you guys deal with dredge? and other decks that might play with the graveyard?
Usually, trying to race them. I have two relic of progenitus in my board that helps a lot. Against graveyard combo, you can only pray to hit one piece of hate and being faster than them.
Apart from that, I would like to share a experience that I recently have. I have always had a love-hate relationship with Diffusion Sliver. When its good, its very good. When its irrelevant, its TERRIBLE. A 1/1 for 2 that doesn't do anything was something that hurted me a lot.
I moved them to the sideboard. Yep. And I replaced them with Leeching sliver.
After a few rounds, I have found the change worthy.
Diffusion Sliver is not as good as we can believe, for the same reason Kopala is not replacing Kira in merfolks. Paying two more mana is painful in many situations, but Modern is a format that plays many lands and can overcome that disadvantage quickly. Also, being Diffusion out of curve is something that pushes our tempo back, making it awful at race. In slow, interactive matchups, difussion is a very good card. But in the rest, it's just terrible. Diffusion only makes a difference when the rival deck is full of 1x1 removal (aka control and midrange). Not even a playset of path to exiles justifyes the inclusion of a very mediocre body.
Leeching Sliver is a hell of a card. Don't think in it as a bad lord: it's a completely different creature. Unlike Diffusion, Leeching sliver impacts the board immediately. I have found it useful against almost every pairing: against aggro, it help us race. Against control, it gives the opponent another important target. Against locked battlefields, the ability of throwing damage skipping the block phase is invaluable. Against interactive matchups, its boarded out in favor of diffusion or more resistant slivers.
And, Pulmonic Sliver seems horrible to me. Being a five-drop that dies to lightning, having Hivelord at the same cost...
Interested in the Chalice of the void idea, but the entire deck will require a change.
In my opinion, replacing Vial for chalice, adding more mana slivers and fatties and going stompy doesn't sound bad.
I have tested a version of slivers without sedge and swamps. The manabase was pretty consistent (and it will be better with Unclaimed Territory) and has incredible starts, but it lacks the reach and the push that Sedge provides. I tried to improve it adding Sliver Legion (wich was a DAMN good card), but it still misses more power.
I think Sedgeless slivers is the right direction, but, again, it misses something. Perhaps more Legions, now that the manabase is better.
For Quilled Sliver: its brutal paired with venom sliver or sentinel sliver, but being a 1/1 for 2 hurts a lot. Cautery seems to me a better option.
Also, I don't recommend to cut the Hivelord in favor of a Striking. Yes, the Venom+Striking combo is tempting, but be aware that the Striking alone does nothing against Eldratron. The venom could be a good option, because it kills Eldrazis by itself. But the power and protection Hivelord gives to us is more useful than a tiny first striker.ç
I have a question too: is not too risky to have 4 mutavaults in a 5-color deck?
I want to try to find the best solution to be more competitive against eldrazi tron. I think Telekinetic comes down too late to have much of an effect and I have been siding in Hivelord in fewer match-ups recently, so my thought is to remove them from the sideboard in favor of a Venom Sliver and Striking Sliver and try to find one more spot for a second Venom so there would be two of each in side board. What are your thoughts?
Change for Friday: -1 Telekinetic in sideboard +1 Venom in sideboard
I have found very useful both Telekinetic and Venom. Venom transforms all of your slivers in a potential removal spell, and it can turn the battle to your side in a stuck battlefield. Even on its own, it stops a lot of threats and makes opponents to reconsider attacks and blocks. I have one Venom on the sideboard, and it has been helpful not only against Shadow or Eldrazi decks, but any kind of aggro. Of course, Venom + Striking are a insane combo, but even Venom alone provides very valuable.
Try also Cautery sliver + Venom if you want some fun.
ekienhol, I have some questions for you about sideboarding:
Why did you side out 1x Vial against BantEldrazi and AdNauseam? Also, against AdNauseam, why did you keep the Dismembers in?
Is siding out the Blur a safe movement? It allows you more explosive plays. I see the point if you are the control matchup, but against something like Eldrazi I see it very valuable.
Why did you side in frenetic against Bant Eldrazi (which packages few removal) and not against EldraTron, since it is the one with more massive destruction?
Against what do you side in the Striking Sliver?
Did you find Syphon sliver valuable?
Have you played against Counters company, elves or any other creature-combo deck?
And i would glad if you share some thoughs on sideboarding, specially against control and jund
Striking is pretty good on defense, while Sidewinder incentive us to be on the aggro side.
Being slivers an aggro deck, I would choose Sidewinder.
I put a Striking on my deck from time to time, and it was good, but I think Sidewinder fits better.
Also, Sidewinder stacks, which it's a thing to consider.
Don't play two Strikings. Drawing the second usually feels awful.
I agree that a viable vial-less build would be nuts (since is a terrible card if not played in turn 1-2), but the great number of 2 drops makes it necessary.
Swapping the vial for a more elvesque configuration (more one drop slivers + mana slivers) could be an interesting experiment.
I found collected company to be a very good card in this deck. We can cast it by turn 3 with mana slivers, and we have a lot of good targets, since we like the accumulation of habilities in the field. Hitting a lord + blur sliver is very powerful, such as it is to hit two lords, a galerider + lord...
Sedge Sliver is also a hard card to evaluate. It's incredibly powerful and it let us to change gears between aggresive/deffensive, but it compromises too much the mana base. If I drop the Vial, I would drop Sedge sliver, something I'm not sold entirely.
If Dominaria gaves us one Sliver that can replace Sedge, I would go in that direction.
By now, I have tested some new configurations and I have some thoughts:
- Darkheart Sliver doesn't belong to mainboard (except as a meta call). It's a good card, but it doesn't help us to reach our main goal: kill our opponent as fast as we can.
- Necrotic Sliver is a 1x in main. As darkheart, it's powerful, but clunky. It makes the cut, since is fexible, and very potent in the late game, but we don't want to rely on it as our principal strategy (at least, in this build)
-Blur Sliver is awesome, and I would play 3 if i have room for one more 3 drop. It's a incredible target with CoCo, and it let us to do explosive things when combined with mana slivers.
-I feel more comfortable with 3 Sedge Sliver than 4. I could be wrong, but swapping a Sedge for the third Blur has performed pretty well for me.
-Leeching Sliver is a must. Not as a 4x, since it's pretty weak by its own, but 3 of it literally multiplies the amount of damage dealt per turn. I'm currently using a 3 - 3 split of Sedge and Leeching, and it works fine.
-The deck needs more one drops. We gain a lot on speed, we can curve better with vial, and they combo amazingly with Manaweft + Blur. Sidewinder Sliver is great, since it stacks, and incentives us to attack more. I'm playing 3, and I can't be more glad with it.
-I have made room for 3 Diffusion Sliver again. I'm still not sure if it's worth it, but my build is now faster, and I think I can benefit from the tempo gained with the protection.
-I don't play random 2-drops such as Sentinel Sliver or Cautery Sliver. The deck if filled with better 2-drops, and having an overload of them makes it difficult for the deck to curve smooth (another reason for playing a few more one drops).
Even when empowering the early part of the strategy, my build still has a strong late game. Sedge and Necrotic are still here, we still have pretty good targets for CoCo, and Sliver Hive gives me life when fighting control.
Combo is still a issue, but I have more chances to race them.
I would be glad to hear opinions about this, and I would post the whole list if someone is interested.
I see you making very good results lately.
I would very glad (and I think not only me) to see some kind of primer, explaining card choices (specially the manabase), matchups and play tricks.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36206_Video-Slivers-In-Modern.html
No Collected Co., no Sedge Sliver. Instead, it runs Shadow Sliver and... Bonesplitter? A Playset of Mindlash?
And what with that sideboard?
It seems interesting to look at. Any thoughts?
I don't think Pyroclasm will see play. Humans tend to grow out of reach very quickly.
I expect some tron and sweepers to rise up. The good news its that spell-based combo is pretty weak to humans, so, with some luck, we will see less ad nauseam and storm in the tables.
Usually, trying to race them. I have two relic of progenitus in my board that helps a lot. Against graveyard combo, you can only pray to hit one piece of hate and being faster than them.
Apart from that, I would like to share a experience that I recently have. I have always had a love-hate relationship with Diffusion Sliver. When its good, its very good. When its irrelevant, its TERRIBLE. A 1/1 for 2 that doesn't do anything was something that hurted me a lot.
I moved them to the sideboard. Yep. And I replaced them with Leeching sliver.
After a few rounds, I have found the change worthy.
Diffusion Sliver is not as good as we can believe, for the same reason Kopala is not replacing Kira in merfolks. Paying two more mana is painful in many situations, but Modern is a format that plays many lands and can overcome that disadvantage quickly. Also, being Diffusion out of curve is something that pushes our tempo back, making it awful at race. In slow, interactive matchups, difussion is a very good card. But in the rest, it's just terrible. Diffusion only makes a difference when the rival deck is full of 1x1 removal (aka control and midrange). Not even a playset of path to exiles justifyes the inclusion of a very mediocre body.
Leeching Sliver is a hell of a card. Don't think in it as a bad lord: it's a completely different creature. Unlike Diffusion, Leeching sliver impacts the board immediately. I have found it useful against almost every pairing: against aggro, it help us race. Against control, it gives the opponent another important target. Against locked battlefields, the ability of throwing damage skipping the block phase is invaluable. Against interactive matchups, its boarded out in favor of diffusion or more resistant slivers.
Seriously, give it a try. I have found it worthy.
Agree
Interested in the Chalice of the void idea, but the entire deck will require a change.
In my opinion, replacing Vial for chalice, adding more mana slivers and fatties and going stompy doesn't sound bad.
I think Sedgeless slivers is the right direction, but, again, it misses something. Perhaps more Legions, now that the manabase is better.
For Quilled Sliver: its brutal paired with venom sliver or sentinel sliver, but being a 1/1 for 2 hurts a lot. Cautery seems to me a better option.
I have a question too: is not too risky to have 4 mutavaults in a 5-color deck?
I have found very useful both Telekinetic and Venom. Venom transforms all of your slivers in a potential removal spell, and it can turn the battle to your side in a stuck battlefield. Even on its own, it stops a lot of threats and makes opponents to reconsider attacks and blocks. I have one Venom on the sideboard, and it has been helpful not only against Shadow or Eldrazi decks, but any kind of aggro. Of course, Venom + Striking are a insane combo, but even Venom alone provides very valuable.
Try also Cautery sliver + Venom if you want some fun.
Why did you side out 1x Vial against BantEldrazi and AdNauseam? Also, against AdNauseam, why did you keep the Dismembers in?
Is siding out the Blur a safe movement? It allows you more explosive plays. I see the point if you are the control matchup, but against something like Eldrazi I see it very valuable.
Why did you side in frenetic against Bant Eldrazi (which packages few removal) and not against EldraTron, since it is the one with more massive destruction?
Against what do you side in the Striking Sliver?
Did you find Syphon sliver valuable?
Have you played against Counters company, elves or any other creature-combo deck?