Curious for those who've played this deck more...if ancient stirrings gets banned does RG version just stop being relevant or can it reinvent itself a bit like death shadow did with probe ban? I was looking around and most people still want/predict stirrings banned if anything in an upcoming banlist update
Heh ritual of the machine I didn't even know it was reserved or spiked. That's a pretty mild spike into 5$ mark which I think pretty much all reserved list cards will hit at least. And you are right this isn't solely based on nostalgia, though the fact many old cards were creeping up over time was (along with decreased supply). Buyouts are partly due to some individuals with a lot of capital realizing that they can make a quick buck buying up cards that may be underpriced in the market. But I would say when buyouts start it likely does trigger players to try to buy up some of these cards (for nostalgia) before they become too expensive to obtain. And you are correct in implying that some buyouts seem to defy reason as the capitalist behind it may have limited or no knowledge of the game but knows how to read a page called "reserved list". I actually did acquire a number of the sub 5$ reserved list cards in older sets not to make money pre spike but as I was worried they could become too expensive later I would no longer want them. Channels on YT like Rudy's could have also played a role both talking MTG Finance but also showing off collections of old sets which got some to see $ and others to get nostalgic. What is true is many of these cards will never be as cheap as they were even with a correction. For those that cannot afford cards they could really need due to this its sad and a bit messed up. Btw "Modern" EDH I meant like no-reserved card EDH, not like 8th edition on EDH which would be dumb. If it wouldn't be so hard to police over time a budget commander official format could be interesting...but since prices would be impossible to do I suppose could be like pauper based on card rarity with ecxeption of the commander. As much as I like the libertarian philosophy behind EDH I still think long term there needs to be more official split of CEDH and more casual long term.
Finance aside...I'm actually looking to use Liliana's Contract in my Hapatra deck as turned out that I was already running 4 demons and not hard to add a few more. Obviously that flavor win not really doable in daxos without ruining the deck but Razaketh does count for 1 (and a contract signer in lore). If you're just using it for draw its probably not great esp. in WB that lacks the same kind of ramp green decks offer. I think in those it also is interesting replacement for Phyrexian Arena as it gives the value up front and a better topdeck if mana less of an issue. Still, overall its my favorite card in this set between the value, the art, the alt win con flavor
Btw fetchlands are in a bad place now. They seem to have largely backed away from master sets for the time being (maybe well see one this year or not) and trying to get reprints in core set and yearly sets like battlebond. Pretty sure Rosewater has literally said they do NOT want fetchlands in standard again. So idk when next time will see them...they also can't just add them easily to things like commander precons as then distributors will just hoard them and sell singles. Thankfully they didn't up them to mythic in masters 2017 so they can still be rares in a set. I too find it hard to rationalize prices on several enemy fetches compared to ally counterparts and only use them in my favorite decks. It may be a year or two before they print any more. On plus side ravnica almost guarantees shocks are getting a reprint which are my go to dual land in EDH and that should offer a good price drop (after an initial increase for standard decks before supply opened of course).
It has come to my attention that heavy buyouts of a ludicrous number of cards have been happening in 2018. I don't tend to check prices too religiously, so finding out that a number of cards I own are now single-handedly worth more than what I tossed at my Patron of the Orochi list in 2014 was quite a bitter sensation. This was not without ramifications for Daxos either - why is Serra's Sanctum $100? Replenish at $50? Outrageous stuff. In spite of the fact the primer list is over a thousand dollars, I actually feel Daxos is a reasonably cheap deck at its core, so I added a new section to the primer with some pretty basic budget thinning suggestions, just in case. TL;DR big mana lands are useful (but at the same time Serra's Sanctum is narrow as hell) and most anything else that costs above 15 dollars can go.
Hey Rumpy, so see you commented on the ongoing reserved list buyouts. If for some reason you haven't watched videos on Alpha Investments youtube channel I'd highly advise as he does give the best breakdown and financial angle overall. If you look at it as simply cardboard then even the existing prices on a lot of these cards were ridiculous. However, I think the main thing to understand is twofold: 1) In 20 years wizards has not gone back on reserved list promise and is unlikely to do so going forward, 2) individuals who started playing magic when they were kids/teens are now adults and many of them have good jobs / savings and want to either regain or acquire cards that is reminiscent of their childhood at any price they can afford. There is a good chance that at some point there will be a correction and several prices will come back down as overall there is evidence of a bubble. It is unfortunate as acquiring more of these reserved cards now feels like a bad investment and is just extremely pricy.
That said I wouldn't say compared to others Serra Sanctum or replenish are overpriced. The one thing is they are not in an extremely limited set like legends or beta. However, even revised duals are exploding right now and while they are the best at what they do you could in EDH/legacy play shocklands instead and still be kind of close to same power level. These 2 cards are basically the only ones for what they do. Serra sanctum didn't even get a flip land like academy or cradle, which we both were hoping for. Replenish is also at a power level unlikely to be reprinted (see Open the Vaults). Cards spiking in urza/tempest block are actually good cards, unlike ones in legends/arabian knights which often can just be on reserved list and awful but sought after for rarity.
Overall will be interesting to see what WOTC and the EDH board decide to do. Wizards I don't think cares about legacy/vintage but EDH is becoming their most loved format and a cash cow. The original ruling board on EDH decided to ban cards like power 9 in EDH from start not really for power level (sol ring arguably better than a mox) but due to the cost and accessibility. As more and more cards start to go north of 100 or even 1000$ the pressure to either ban more cards or make a new format/list rises. We've seen brawl introduced but I can see a more modern style EDH being introduced at some point one perhaps more focused on casual style and leaving the existing for the competitive/legacy type.
I like that list a lot, and in general I'm not as big of a fan of the heavy mana dork lists. I like idea of multiple Reflector Mage as well. Huntmaster seems to be in slot that occasionally gets used for Pia and Kiran Nalarr but that has both the bonus of 3rd creature/evasion it also has double red and no life gain. I'll leave huntmaster in as well for now. Sun Titan seems to be in spot that can either be a Kiki, 3rd Felidar, Glorybringer type of card. I'd leave titan in if want to have extra value for longer attrition/control matchups or as backup combo. I imagine you win less with combo overall and instead just midrange value more often.
@Mateusf34 I love Hanweir as a card and will play it in EDH. In modern it suffers as it can just die to bolt and never provide value. Also in this deck I don't know if the 10 3CC are necessary considering the mana ramp, and the eldrazi temples helping to play 4/5 CC earlier. BBE also offers lot of value at the 4 spot
@Torpf congrats on result, the deck looks solid overall. I agree to trim Batterskull doesn't seem strong or fast enough here (awaiting SFM unban in general). Per damping sphere while I do think this is one of the decks it could slide in the easiest one also has to consider how it non-bos with Eldrazi Temple and Bloodbraid Elf. Also crumble on negative side is slow but if it lands basically turns off tron and can also be used against scapeshift. Btw curious why you ran Seal of Primordium over something like Natural State...better synergy with BBE or fear of cards like Chalice and worship?
Not only do I agree that Shalai is a perfect main deck include I actually think there is argument for more than 1 copy. First off it reminds me a bit of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in merfolk a spot removal protection legendary often used as a pair (if at all). As others noted since it both protects the combo and is a threat/blocker itself its not a bad turn 2-3 play by itself. In that respect as setting up the combo it would play a role like storm does with their creatures (not mandatory to win but help immensely to go off). Additionally Felidar Guardian is a weak creature so shaving to 2-3 copies I could see as an option in general. The fact it also has the +1/+1 counter ability feels like the cherry on top, and definitely helps provide added value to the 4x cobra/rallier lists as a mana dump + go wide strategy. It even can make birds a threat.
Overall shalai feels like an inverted Linvala, Keeper of Silence, instead of nerfing the opponent's side it puts a shield up and boosts yours with same CC and stats.
Can't argue with your assessments. I think I'll try to see if have space to try Bloodchief Ascension in my vamp deck as its thematic and aggro anyway. It is unfortunate some very powerful unique/cards end up getting shafted due to politics. I'll try Waste Not and Scroll Rack for now. Figured I'd mention the legends enchantments as they are some of the most powerful effects printed.
I don't really get the Smuggler's Copter use for stompy and moreso how using 1cc mana dorks makes it better. If using mana dork then want to use it to ramp, copter is 2cc and then if you crew with dork you lose ability to gain mana. If you want evasion I think this deck wants to do that through trample/pump. The only real value it gives is providing sort of a pseudo-haste effect. Also for devotion build it provides 0 G.
My perspective is if you want to rationalize using 1CC mana dork you probably also need to be either using Collected Company or splashing R for Bloodbraid Elf, something to negate the threat density loss. Especially if you cut experiment one as then only geist can provide value in attrition matchup.
Cutting the experiment one is interesting though, only question is does that lead to abandoning +1/+1 subtheme or just doubling down with renegade being the replacement for those already not using (bye bye budget version)? How does that end up affecting Avatar of the Resolute mathematically? Feels like mana ramp option will want more 3CC options and run coco main, and more cards like thrun in SB imo. And overall seems rancor effects and Aspect of Hydra need to add enough value to out-compete a R/G BBE value deck. Personally I think until its proven to be less powerful than it seems new deck ideas should center around 4x Steel Leaf Champion just like so many other deck archetypes are working around 4x BBE.
Lastly I think there is reason to suspect there may be a solid 1 / 2CC creature card in the not yet spoiled Dominaria portion. Champion appears to be part of a 5 card set of triple mono color. But we also saw for example a new pseudo version of white knight / black knight. Should be interesting...
Sorry to hear you didn't get chains Rumpy, I read your primer several times which is why it was only not included due to cost/not having. Maybe when Hasbro becomes desperate can get one in "Reserved Masters" . It is a weird card though use wise as it feels more like an across the table Leovold a bit. On positive side it doesn't exile so combos with Replenish or Emeria Shepherd well.
Shantu you make a good point about curio synergy I almost forgot about that. I was actually thinking maybe scriptures could be interesting in a deck (possibly not daxos) using Starfield of Nyx for a Child of Alara like recurring wipe effect. Feels like if you wanted to abuse curio card like The Eldest Reborn is better in so much as it has immediate symmetric grave pact effect and could also choose to return after I or II.
Rumpy I do have a few cards don't see mentioned in your primer wondering if have been tested and in some cases if just too expensive as to why not considered, curious your thought (maybe add some to primer also):
Waste Not : not gonna lie, I've had a pretty foil one for a while and always wanted excuse to play it. Realize unlike say Nath of the Gilt-Leaf discard isn't built into our commander, but I count 7-8 permanent/repeatable discard spells in deck. Also can be triggered off effects like Survival of the Fittest, Faithless Looting, etc. I can see it not being good enough often enough but its only 2CC and could easily cantrip itself at very least.
Bloodchief Ascension : another card want excuse to play . Only 1CC, yes it does attract hate but seems more synergistic with strategy and less scary than Luminarch Ascension. With this deck problem would be not having any real drain effects so hoping opponents hit each other or self harm to get counters. Also for those wanting an infinite combo throw in with a Mindcrank.
Scroll Rack : I think I'm going to try this over Azor's Gateway. Three main things I like about this: 1) it doesn't "draw" cards so it doesn't nonbo with several of our draw hosing effects, 2) it combos with land tax to draw 3 a turn, 3) doesn't exile cards permanently. Also it can be used to hide cards, like a wrath, so don't accidentally discard. Biggest argument against is if hand tends to be too small too often but I think the possible upside could outweigh here. Also we're not using top so this seems like the higher ceiling alternative.
Moat : First of the "omg so pricey...", back when crackdown was in this seems like would have been better slot for those that had one. Costs one more but likely nullifies 90% of creatures. Heh I just remembered why this probably isn't included...tokens can't attack. Guess could either just beat down with Razzaketh or bounce it back with Curio
Nether Void : This and next one have seen in stack builds which this Daxos deck feels bit in that direction. I wouldn't see this as an early play, but more to lock the game down. Daxos if out can just make tokens without paying the tax. I suppose this could be weak as we aren't really going after opponent's mana base (only maybe indirectly through mass discard).
The Abyss : ironically I just realized this combo's with Phyrexian Scriptures too lol. This is sort of a Magus of the Abyss in the card type we want. Not as strong as combat taxing cards, but certainly good vs voltron and non-token strategies.
First off I got a nice lol from the "very non-budget abzan build" description . See not going with mana dorks at the moment, and 6 3CC spells. Did a double take as missed at first and was surprised to see Aspect of Hydra in abzan list. Though I suppose having Strangleroot, Avatar and Champion that's already enough to warrant it. Better seeing only 1 anafenza. I do still think BM can hurt because you can't fetch a plains for Dromoka and to play in response you need to be holding up 2 mana immediately. Ponza matchup 1 BM + 1 Stone rain on forest and you can't cast Champion anymore either. Understandably while they are durdling LD you can be smashing their face, but still there does seem to be a real increased chance of getting blown out. That said you figure how often you end up facing that and how much the abzan setup helps vs field. I'd at least play a couple of Natural State in the side.
From testing so far what turn are you usually getting in for lethal?
Noticed the GP list is almost same to prior winning list aside from relics -> ooze/endbringer and the cavern -> forest. Part of reason for extra forest was likely path/BM as well as more mana for ooze. Finks in SB is interesting, it does kind of work with the theme of deck as an early value threat and against burn likely shaving the dismember for it.
Curious if Damping Sphere will replace Crumble to Dust in SB when its legal...both are searchable with stirrings and its both 2CC less and hits decks like storm. Negative is it does turn off benefit from Eldrazi temple and it nonbo's with BBE. Though with enough BBEs being played could be good tech against it too...
Not such a fan of a single chalice in SB as its a card generally wanted early and can't really control that. It also nonbo's with BBE too (unless you want it on 0CC).
I prefer the last 5-0 list posted to the GP one above. Stuffing so many unrelated cards in what is point of combo really. I kind of get BBE as it can potentially put out a saheeli (which they can bolt before you can +1 fyi) and jace is just for value and possible creature reuse. Average CC of deck seems quite high and ends up playing so many 1 mana dorks which leads to more mulligans. Hopefully other decklist is more balanced
Hey Rumpy I have been keeping up with thread for a few months now. When I got back into magic after 15 year hiatus Daxos was first precon I purchased and my first experience with Commander. I ended up giving up on daxos and would end up focusing more on karlov (eventually lead to Ayli build), but I would frequently get inkling to sleeve something back up. I did at one point try to make a tier 1 style Zur deck and ended up quitting for a little bit as it seemed to inherently broken lol. Was great to come across your primer (via Tev's thread) and find both a discussion around Daxos and for a competitive style build at that. Also wanted to thank you for indirectly getting me to invest in a Chains of Mephistopheles (Rare + 2CC + usable + unique ability + legends + reserved list = yes please) which it just as I predicted would spiked almost 2x. Hope you managed to get a copy before that as well.
First off noting on most recent exchange I don't see myself using Azor's Gateway, not because its bad but I don't like idea of self exiling cards outside Eldritch Evolution in commander. Plus its not an enchantment so don't feel so bad snubbing it, I'm sure its good though. Btw I'd look to use Gift of Immortality before Shade's Form, could be a good way to keep Daxos alive or also loop with Sun titan.
Agree on not using pestilence, high CC, we're not mono B and we don't play a lot of creatures...it would only really be good to kind of keep an opponent with 1/1 tokens at bay.
Speaking of 2BB enchantments that kill creatures...saw no one talked about the new Dominaria cards yet and main card I'm interested in is Phyrexian Scriptures. This can be played on curve after a daxos...can perform a 1 turn delayed wrath that protects him and aside from a few decks like Breya is probably going to wipe out all opponents creatures. Even if gets removed still get an experience counter, and could even be used politically to protect and opponents creature. Lastly it also has a one sided graveyard exile effect built in as well which can hose any recurse strategies also working well with the discard theme deck has. Besides that card Seal Away is interesting mainly as its flash and 2CC, maybe replacing an instant removal...not sure how much of a limitation the tap requirement is. Last one The Eldest Reborn, high CC but has immediate effect and its 2nd clause is a discard effect and the 3rd effect is a one time Debtors' Knell. Definately strong in a voltron meta. Kind of wish sagas 2nd clause was on "next" draw step and not "your next". Also wonder if was intentional or not to have sagas nonbo with Necropotence really bad lol. That is a big reason to not run these admittedly. Why didn't they have it during upkeep...
@Giggle Physics , I can answer that as I made that mistake shortly after 2015 commander precons came out. Commander (as well as sets like Conspiracy) are only legal in eternal formats like commander and legacy/vintage, NOT modern. If karlov was legal in modern I am sure a B/W deck would be a viable version.
Also if you go to into B/W regardless you kind of become B/W tokens which is less played now but used lingering souls, spectral procession, bitterblossom, some auriok champions, etc.
What I noticed btw on some streams is the expectation/reality of more Jace was apparently causing Jund to play less Kolaghan and more Maelstrom Pulse. On plus side that doesn't create 2 for 1 blowouts but that can kill any of the walkers you have out.
Kitchen finks I suppose makes sense, just feels kind of bad to have to use in DGA. Solid protector of the planeswalkers though. Although bob starts to become liability with so many high CC cards in deck.
So many issues a simple turn 3 Batterskull could have fixed
Oh btw jund also uses treetop village as man land. Also if want to try to keep sculler and going to start playing relic in MB, may want to also think about borrowing tech from similar build of eldrazi processor and run Wasteland Strangler which also doubles as extra removal against things like 5c humans
Finance aside...I'm actually looking to use Liliana's Contract in my Hapatra deck as turned out that I was already running 4 demons and not hard to add a few more. Obviously that flavor win not really doable in daxos without ruining the deck but Razaketh does count for 1 (and a contract signer in lore). If you're just using it for draw its probably not great esp. in WB that lacks the same kind of ramp green decks offer. I think in those it also is interesting replacement for Phyrexian Arena as it gives the value up front and a better topdeck if mana less of an issue. Still, overall its my favorite card in this set between the value, the art, the alt win con flavor
Btw fetchlands are in a bad place now. They seem to have largely backed away from master sets for the time being (maybe well see one this year or not) and trying to get reprints in core set and yearly sets like battlebond. Pretty sure Rosewater has literally said they do NOT want fetchlands in standard again. So idk when next time will see them...they also can't just add them easily to things like commander precons as then distributors will just hoard them and sell singles. Thankfully they didn't up them to mythic in masters 2017 so they can still be rares in a set. I too find it hard to rationalize prices on several enemy fetches compared to ally counterparts and only use them in my favorite decks. It may be a year or two before they print any more. On plus side ravnica almost guarantees shocks are getting a reprint which are my go to dual land in EDH and that should offer a good price drop (after an initial increase for standard decks before supply opened of course).
Hey Rumpy, so see you commented on the ongoing reserved list buyouts. If for some reason you haven't watched videos on Alpha Investments youtube channel I'd highly advise as he does give the best breakdown and financial angle overall. If you look at it as simply cardboard then even the existing prices on a lot of these cards were ridiculous. However, I think the main thing to understand is twofold: 1) In 20 years wizards has not gone back on reserved list promise and is unlikely to do so going forward, 2) individuals who started playing magic when they were kids/teens are now adults and many of them have good jobs / savings and want to either regain or acquire cards that is reminiscent of their childhood at any price they can afford. There is a good chance that at some point there will be a correction and several prices will come back down as overall there is evidence of a bubble. It is unfortunate as acquiring more of these reserved cards now feels like a bad investment and is just extremely pricy.
That said I wouldn't say compared to others Serra Sanctum or replenish are overpriced. The one thing is they are not in an extremely limited set like legends or beta. However, even revised duals are exploding right now and while they are the best at what they do you could in EDH/legacy play shocklands instead and still be kind of close to same power level. These 2 cards are basically the only ones for what they do. Serra sanctum didn't even get a flip land like academy or cradle, which we both were hoping for. Replenish is also at a power level unlikely to be reprinted (see Open the Vaults). Cards spiking in urza/tempest block are actually good cards, unlike ones in legends/arabian knights which often can just be on reserved list and awful but sought after for rarity.
Overall will be interesting to see what WOTC and the EDH board decide to do. Wizards I don't think cares about legacy/vintage but EDH is becoming their most loved format and a cash cow. The original ruling board on EDH decided to ban cards like power 9 in EDH from start not really for power level (sol ring arguably better than a mox) but due to the cost and accessibility. As more and more cards start to go north of 100 or even 1000$ the pressure to either ban more cards or make a new format/list rises. We've seen brawl introduced but I can see a more modern style EDH being introduced at some point one perhaps more focused on casual style and leaving the existing for the competitive/legacy type.
@Torpf congrats on result, the deck looks solid overall. I agree to trim Batterskull doesn't seem strong or fast enough here (awaiting SFM unban in general). Per damping sphere while I do think this is one of the decks it could slide in the easiest one also has to consider how it non-bos with Eldrazi Temple and Bloodbraid Elf. Also crumble on negative side is slow but if it lands basically turns off tron and can also be used against scapeshift. Btw curious why you ran Seal of Primordium over something like Natural State...better synergy with BBE or fear of cards like Chalice and worship?
Overall shalai feels like an inverted Linvala, Keeper of Silence, instead of nerfing the opponent's side it puts a shield up and boosts yours with same CC and stats.
My perspective is if you want to rationalize using 1CC mana dork you probably also need to be either using Collected Company or splashing R for Bloodbraid Elf, something to negate the threat density loss. Especially if you cut experiment one as then only geist can provide value in attrition matchup.
Cutting the experiment one is interesting though, only question is does that lead to abandoning +1/+1 subtheme or just doubling down with renegade being the replacement for those already not using (bye bye budget version)? How does that end up affecting Avatar of the Resolute mathematically? Feels like mana ramp option will want more 3CC options and run coco main, and more cards like thrun in SB imo. And overall seems rancor effects and Aspect of Hydra need to add enough value to out-compete a R/G BBE value deck. Personally I think until its proven to be less powerful than it seems new deck ideas should center around 4x Steel Leaf Champion just like so many other deck archetypes are working around 4x BBE.
Lastly I think there is reason to suspect there may be a solid 1 / 2CC creature card in the not yet spoiled Dominaria portion. Champion appears to be part of a 5 card set of triple mono color. But we also saw for example a new pseudo version of white knight / black knight. Should be interesting...
Shantu you make a good point about curio synergy I almost forgot about that. I was actually thinking maybe scriptures could be interesting in a deck (possibly not daxos) using Starfield of Nyx for a Child of Alara like recurring wipe effect. Feels like if you wanted to abuse curio card like The Eldest Reborn is better in so much as it has immediate symmetric grave pact effect and could also choose to return after I or II.
Rumpy I do have a few cards don't see mentioned in your primer wondering if have been tested and in some cases if just too expensive as to why not considered, curious your thought (maybe add some to primer also):
First off I got a nice lol from the "very non-budget abzan build" description
From testing so far what turn are you usually getting in for lethal?
Curious if Damping Sphere will replace Crumble to Dust in SB when its legal...both are searchable with stirrings and its both 2CC less and hits decks like storm. Negative is it does turn off benefit from Eldrazi temple and it nonbo's with BBE. Though with enough BBEs being played could be good tech against it too...
Not such a fan of a single chalice in SB as its a card generally wanted early and can't really control that. It also nonbo's with BBE too (unless you want it on 0CC).
First off noting on most recent exchange I don't see myself using Azor's Gateway, not because its bad but I don't like idea of self exiling cards outside Eldritch Evolution in commander. Plus its not an enchantment so don't feel so bad snubbing it, I'm sure its good though. Btw I'd look to use Gift of Immortality before Shade's Form, could be a good way to keep Daxos alive or also loop with Sun titan.
Agree on not using pestilence, high CC, we're not mono B and we don't play a lot of creatures...it would only really be good to kind of keep an opponent with 1/1 tokens at bay.
Speaking of 2BB enchantments that kill creatures...saw no one talked about the new Dominaria cards yet and main card I'm interested in is Phyrexian Scriptures. This can be played on curve after a daxos...can perform a 1 turn delayed wrath that protects him and aside from a few decks like Breya is probably going to wipe out all opponents creatures. Even if gets removed still get an experience counter, and could even be used politically to protect and opponents creature. Lastly it also has a one sided graveyard exile effect built in as well which can hose any recurse strategies also working well with the discard theme deck has. Besides that card Seal Away is interesting mainly as its flash and 2CC, maybe replacing an instant removal...not sure how much of a limitation the tap requirement is. Last one The Eldest Reborn, high CC but has immediate effect and its 2nd clause is a discard effect and the 3rd effect is a one time Debtors' Knell. Definately strong in a voltron meta. Kind of wish sagas 2nd clause was on "next" draw step and not "your next". Also wonder if was intentional or not to have sagas nonbo with Necropotence really bad lol. That is a big reason to not run these admittedly. Why didn't they have it during upkeep...
Also if you go to into B/W regardless you kind of become B/W tokens which is less played now but used lingering souls, spectral procession, bitterblossom, some auriok champions, etc.
What I noticed btw on some streams is the expectation/reality of more Jace was apparently causing Jund to play less Kolaghan and more Maelstrom Pulse. On plus side that doesn't create 2 for 1 blowouts but that can kill any of the walkers you have out.
Kitchen finks I suppose makes sense, just feels kind of bad to have to use in DGA. Solid protector of the planeswalkers though. Although bob starts to become liability with so many high CC cards in deck.
So many issues a simple turn 3 Batterskull could have fixed
Oh btw jund also uses treetop village as man land. Also if want to try to keep sculler and going to start playing relic in MB, may want to also think about borrowing tech from similar build of eldrazi processor and run Wasteland Strangler which also doubles as extra removal against things like 5c humans