When hellbent, he just draws two. If you can only discard one card, you discard one. This card can be very aggressively played.
I wonder if this fits humans, i was pretty excited for Rix Maadi Reveler and this is much better.
This is a card that my Knightfall deck has been waiting for for years. I wonder if i can make the snow support work but nonetheless, this two drop will fit in very nicely.
Pretty curious choises there. With changes I Always try to gain either flavor, flexibility or efficiency and cutting Anointed Procession instead of Doubling Season doesn't seem to fit any of those.
It's a case of an easy splashable 4cmc enchantment v.s. 5cmc enchantment that serves the exact same purpose in this deck, but fits nicely in the curve and drops the turn before you cast your commander.
The counter doubling effect can be largely ignored in this deck, even with inclusion of cards like Archangel of Thune and Cathars' Crusade.
I can somewhat see the appeal from Perilous Forays from a player who has played with Karametra, God of Harvests, but i feel the effect is very slow and probably could be replaced with more efficient ramp spells in green. If the sac outlet is a necessity, Greater Good could be considered as a card filter and usually as card advantage engine since most creatures will have 3power or more. Digging three or four cards deep will also help you hit your landdrops in the later turns, while at the same time doing away with them when you don't need any more.
I agree on your evaluation. The competitive side in me tries to evaluate cards the same way i.e. from the floor up. This has resulted in some very powerful but themed 75% decks in my collection. The Johnny side of me however, wants this particular deck to be fun, strong and synergistic.
I have noticed, this is quite hard for me to do
On the interaction side of things, next to the themed enchantment/artifact hate cards i've put in an answer-all card in the form of Beast Within, but i actually depend on the fight mechanic for creature interaction. I have also included cards that i know i can tutor for in specific situations depending on the decks i face. Those are, like stated before, purely meta cards. Trostani Discordant and Angel of Jubilation serve a dual role in the "pump" category, but Dragonlord Dromoka is way off theme.
On one instance i've considered to cut cards that overlap with other decks to make my life easier. But that would require to cut cards like Doubling Season and Green Sun's Zenith. All these are clearly powerful cards and i fear losing them would severely power down the deck.
The last two cards i've allready played with last weekend, and i'm not quite certian about Arlinn. The synergy is obviously there, but I've had her rotting in hand for quite a few turns. Admiddetly, i was allready winning that game hard by the time she got drawn, so no biggy there. Might have to play with her a little more to form a conclusion as if she is worth it over the versatility of Ajani Unyielding.
These cards are all pretty high up the curve, and i it's getting crowded up there.
For example Pack Guardian can be very good if there is an abundance of lands in hand. I feel the 37th land could be a justified inclusion by then but it needs another slot in an allready packed deck.
For wolf token production, Raised By Wolves, Predator's Howl and Kessig Cagebreakers seem legitimate inclusions. The first being dependent on own board state, the last two being highly reactive to the game.
For pump and general huge dudes, Raised By Wolves and Wolfir Silverheart.
Briarpack Alpha and Wolfir Avenger fill similar roles and have the same ceilings, one being a flexible 3 or 5mana kill a dude, gain 3life, keep if paid for a 3/3 wolf at instant speed. The other has the same chance of that to happen for 4mana at instant speed all the time but can also save another dude.
For these 6/7 cards i'm not quite sure what to cut yet.
Currently I feel i'm quite high in the ramp department so i probably can safely cut some there. Other cuts must be made in the off-themed cards, but highly valuable meta cards.
I use Commit // Memory for the same purpose.
A stricktly better version of this effect would be an instant with flashback or other means to cast from the yard, so i can respond to stacked copies of Fateful Showdown and protect myself from self mill.
You could Always run Relic of Progenitus et all for the cantrip effect if needed, but most cantripping artifacts hit all yards.
Games last Friday with Tolsimir were very good. Even with some disruption form the table, the deck perfomed great! In two games i finished second and first.
By now i feel the deck has legs, and will be tuned a little more to gain some more wolf support. The deck is at it's absolute best when you get the wolf token production rolling, so that's where the focus wil lie.
Potential cuts will be the non synergystic cards, those could be meta choises but delute from the overall game plan.
Last Friday i played my new version of the deck to great succes. Ral, Storm Conduit was clearly powerfull on board and didn't make it round the table. Which was a correct assumption for i had a finishing move in hand.
In the end, after some politics with the Voltron player to leave me alone i finished the game with a few stacked copies of Fall of the Titans.
I want to test the deck some more, but for now it feels fine. Narset's Reversal was a great tool for protecting aswel as stealing spells. I highly recommend trying it out. Increasing Vengeance cast from the yard copying Chaos Warp was a blowout play. Fury Storm copying an X spell three times, taking out two players at once was very nice
Yes, the deck plays out more reactive, but i don't mind that at all.
I have been thinking about adding Mana Drain but i feel the card is way to expensive
I have some more subtle changes to the deck planned ahead, mainly to put in a little more wolf support.
But first, we have some games planned tonight, and i'm going to make good use of those to get a better feel of what could be cut from the deck. I want to focus mainly in the ramp/utility department for i feel those are a little oversupported.
With that in mind i feel the extra card advantage Future Sight and Magus of the Future provide is negligible. To me, those would be pretty safe cuts.
Possibility Storm: This could very well be another's pet card, but i personally don't like it. I do see its synergy with the commander though so it has that going for it.
Savor the Moment. This extra turn spell is nice, but what is it to you if you can't untap? What is it i don't see?
Future Sight and Magus of the Future - I can't tell you the number of times I have played 8-12 cards off the top of my deck in a turn. You don't get stuck with lands on top with this deck because of the number of cantrips in here I just cast a cantrip from hand to draw past the lands. Any of these cards in play almost always gives me at least a draw 10 / turn effect. You run Consecrated Sphinx which has similar capabilities but it costs more and in my mind its less flavorful and interesting. In a lot of ways I would say that Consecrated Sphinx is more vulnerable than the enchantment at least and technically speaking they are faster to get value from them than Consecrated in that if someone has spot removal in hand you can play the top card of your library before they get to respond. Consecrated Sphinx also is much more likely to draw attention than the future sight effects which I still think draw attention but nowhere close to the way that the sphinx does. Because of how proactive I am with my spells I really don't get jammed up on these cards. Running lots of cheap proactive spells its very easy to just tear through your deck with one of these. Its also relevant if you have a bunch of mana when you play one of these that you can immediately start playing and hitting the gas with these cards where Consecrated Sphinx reacts to opponents.
While i'm under the assumption the extra value off the top is not really needed, I actually agree with most of your analysis. You make a very compelling argument in drawing past land pockets from hand and continue form the top. I wouldn't call Consecrated Sphinx any less flavorfull than the futures though.
Possibility Storm - its 2x spellcast triggers every time you cast something. With my own list most of my spells can be cast at any time as I really don't run much for counterspells. Its all in triggering all of the spellcast matters cards twice as much and it completely screws with people. I can't tell you how many tiems this has won me the game because people couldn't resolve the cards they wanted at the time they wanted to resolve them. This card might have the single highest win percentage of any card in my deck. No joke, it triggers all of my things to happen a lot more and its such a disruptive spell for so many other decks.
I'm not at all in the chaos realm of things but after letting this one sink in, the card is a little less of a chaos'y card than i had in mind.
When tuning for a more proactive game, this can actually be VERY good in my current itteration with activated copy effects, because copying a spell means the copy still goes on the stack before the Posibility Storm trigger resolves. Unfortunately, the one-shot Fork effects are a little counter productive.
Savor the Moment 3 mana play an additional land, draw an extra card, reup Jori En to draw again. I had 5 mana extra turns in there mostly for all of those reasons but people got mad at the untapping of lands and the 2x attack so I felt it was a good compromise in a way to achieve the things I wanted while putting less feels bad on it. The 5 mana extra turns are probably stronger but I felt better about myself running this one. I think that Explore is an amazing magic card and this card is really really close to blue explore.
Three mana land ramp in blue! Thanks for explaining.
You do need lands in hand for this to work, exactly like Terrain Generator and with a very low land count this can be tricky. Though i very much like the idea.
Edit: Some more games are planned for tonight, i hope i get a better idea of the more copy'y version of the deck
So some of the new cards really made me want to give this deck a try, I'm just having some trouble making cuts. Could anyone offer some suggestions of cards that should definitely be taken out?
Good to see another player picking up the deck and great insights on behalf of ISBPathfinder on your list.
I'd like to add that the deck is slightly different than my current itteration which is a little experimental since last week, but all list have one thing in common. They draw cards like crazy.
With that in mind i feel the extra card advantage Future Sight and Magus of the Future provide is negligible. To me, those would be pretty safe cuts.
Possibility Storm: This could very well be another's pet card, but i personally don't like it. I do see its synergy with the commander though so it has that going for it.
As Foretold: Good card only when played early. Terribly slow everywhere else.
With a higher curve deck like yours, this card gains value as the game progresses, but when you have a really low curve full of one mana cantrips like mine, returns on these cards actually diminish. Inclusion should depend on curve and could be cut as (and if) you tune lower in the future.
Both Curious Homunculus and Crackling Drake would be safe cuts aswell. The former can be easilly replaced by another rock. A category of which you run a little lean AND you run a very low land count. This also takes away some of Walking Atlas's ability to ramp.
The latter can actually be any cantrip. I do see potential in the body, but combat is not the way these decks usually win.
Savor the Moment. This extra turn spell is nice, but what is it to you if you can't untap? What is it i don't see?
All in all i've learned the deck runs better as you lower the curve and start drawing your deck every game. This also helps thining other categories since you are far more likely to draw into your wincons or answer cards. Try to get a feel for the deck by playing it, it's tons of fun and wins feel very well deserved because you really have to puzzle for them.
Enjoy and please let us know how you did in your next games.
Decks are about a matrix of synergy, and unfortunately we have no context to your 99 unless you post a list we can see.
This. And with that said, both Training Grounds and Sylvan Library have great synergy with Thrasios and were auto includes in my list.
Going a step further on the efficiency ladder i'd say Mirri's Guile is an option too.
I just now noticed that Pia Nalaar's ETB is actually a reference to this card except much lonelier and now Pia Nalaar depresses the heck out of me
As for Pia and Kiran Nalaar...Well it's one of those cases where the card is pretty good everywhere else except this format.
I tend to disagree. I'm all in for 3~6cmc creaturecards that produce three bodies upon etb. Depending on added utility they are in and all work wonders in my Queen Marchesa pillow fort deck.
I wonder if this fits humans, i was pretty excited for Rix Maadi Reveler and this is much better.
It's a case of an easy splashable 4cmc enchantment v.s. 5cmc enchantment that serves the exact same purpose in this deck, but fits nicely in the curve and drops the turn before you cast your commander.
The counter doubling effect can be largely ignored in this deck, even with inclusion of cards like Archangel of Thune and Cathars' Crusade.
I can somewhat see the appeal from Perilous Forays from a player who has played with Karametra, God of Harvests, but i feel the effect is very slow and probably could be replaced with more efficient ramp spells in green. If the sac outlet is a necessity, Greater Good could be considered as a card filter and usually as card advantage engine since most creatures will have 3power or more. Digging three or four cards deep will also help you hit your landdrops in the later turns, while at the same time doing away with them when you don't need any more.
Beast Within > Swords to Plowshares for flexibility for sure!
I know it's mainly standard focussed, but where's my boy Dev!?
I have noticed, this is quite hard for me to do
On the interaction side of things, next to the themed enchantment/artifact hate cards i've put in an answer-all card in the form of Beast Within, but i actually depend on the fight mechanic for creature interaction. I have also included cards that i know i can tutor for in specific situations depending on the decks i face. Those are, like stated before, purely meta cards. Trostani Discordant and Angel of Jubilation serve a dual role in the "pump" category, but Dragonlord Dromoka is way off theme.
On one instance i've considered to cut cards that overlap with other decks to make my life easier. But that would require to cut cards like Doubling Season and Green Sun's Zenith. All these are clearly powerful cards and i fear losing them would severely power down the deck.
Out:
In:
The last two cards i've allready played with last weekend, and i'm not quite certian about Arlinn. The synergy is obviously there, but I've had her rotting in hand for quite a few turns. Admiddetly, i was allready winning that game hard by the time she got drawn, so no biggy there. Might have to play with her a little more to form a conclusion as if she is worth it over the versatility of Ajani Unyielding.
Other candidates to add (sorted by CMC) are:
These cards are all pretty high up the curve, and i it's getting crowded up there.
For example Pack Guardian can be very good if there is an abundance of lands in hand. I feel the 37th land could be a justified inclusion by then but it needs another slot in an allready packed deck.
For wolf token production, Raised By Wolves, Predator's Howl and Kessig Cagebreakers seem legitimate inclusions. The first being dependent on own board state, the last two being highly reactive to the game.
For pump and general huge dudes, Raised By Wolves and Wolfir Silverheart.
Briarpack Alpha and Wolfir Avenger fill similar roles and have the same ceilings, one being a flexible 3 or 5mana kill a dude, gain 3life, keep if paid for a 3/3 wolf at instant speed. The other has the same chance of that to happen for 4mana at instant speed all the time but can also save another dude.
For these 6/7 cards i'm not quite sure what to cut yet.
Currently I feel i'm quite high in the ramp department so i probably can safely cut some there. Other cuts must be made in the off-themed cards, but highly valuable meta cards.
A stricktly better version of this effect would be an instant with flashback or other means to cast from the yard, so i can respond to stacked copies of Fateful Showdown and protect myself from self mill.
You could Always run Relic of Progenitus et all for the cantrip effect if needed, but most cantripping artifacts hit all yards.
By now i feel the deck has legs, and will be tuned a little more to gain some more wolf support. The deck is at it's absolute best when you get the wolf token production rolling, so that's where the focus wil lie.
Potential cuts will be the non synergystic cards, those could be meta choises but delute from the overall game plan.
Will report as soon as i have done some testing.
Ral, Storm Conduit was clearly powerfull on board and didn't make it round the table. Which was a correct assumption for i had a finishing move in hand.
In the end, after some politics with the Voltron player to leave me alone i finished the game with a few stacked copies of Fall of the Titans.
I want to test the deck some more, but for now it feels fine.
Narset's Reversal was a great tool for protecting aswel as stealing spells. I highly recommend trying it out.
Increasing Vengeance cast from the yard copying Chaos Warp was a blowout play.
Fury Storm copying an X spell three times, taking out two players at once was very nice
Yes, the deck plays out more reactive, but i don't mind that at all.
I have been thinking about adding Mana Drain but i feel the card is way to expensive
But first, we have some games planned tonight, and i'm going to make good use of those to get a better feel of what could be cut from the deck. I want to focus mainly in the ramp/utility department for i feel those are a little oversupported.
While i'm under the assumption the extra value off the top is not really needed, I actually agree with most of your analysis. You make a very compelling argument in drawing past land pockets from hand and continue form the top. I wouldn't call Consecrated Sphinx any less flavorfull than the futures though.
I'm not at all in the chaos realm of things but after letting this one sink in, the card is a little less of a chaos'y card than i had in mind.
When tuning for a more proactive game, this can actually be VERY good in my current itteration with activated copy effects, because copying a spell means the copy still goes on the stack before the Posibility Storm trigger resolves. Unfortunately, the one-shot Fork effects are a little counter productive.
Three mana land ramp in blue! Thanks for explaining.
You do need lands in hand for this to work, exactly like Terrain Generator and with a very low land count this can be tricky. Though i very much like the idea.
Edit: Some more games are planned for tonight, i hope i get a better idea of the more copy'y version of the deck
Good to see another player picking up the deck and great insights on behalf of ISBPathfinder on your list.
I'd like to add that the deck is slightly different than my current itteration which is a little experimental since last week, but all list have one thing in common. They draw cards like crazy.
With that in mind i feel the extra card advantage Future Sight and Magus of the Future provide is negligible. To me, those would be pretty safe cuts.
Possibility Storm: This could very well be another's pet card, but i personally don't like it. I do see its synergy with the commander though so it has that going for it.
As Foretold: Good card only when played early. Terribly slow everywhere else.
With a higher curve deck like yours, this card gains value as the game progresses, but when you have a really low curve full of one mana cantrips like mine, returns on these cards actually diminish. Inclusion should depend on curve and could be cut as (and if) you tune lower in the future.
Both Curious Homunculus and Crackling Drake would be safe cuts aswell. The former can be easilly replaced by another rock. A category of which you run a little lean AND you run a very low land count. This also takes away some of Walking Atlas's ability to ramp.
The latter can actually be any cantrip. I do see potential in the body, but combat is not the way these decks usually win.
Savor the Moment. This extra turn spell is nice, but what is it to you if you can't untap? What is it i don't see?
All in all i've learned the deck runs better as you lower the curve and start drawing your deck every game. This also helps thining other categories since you are far more likely to draw into your wincons or answer cards. Try to get a feel for the deck by playing it, it's tons of fun and wins feel very well deserved because you really have to puzzle for them.
Enjoy and please let us know how you did in your next games.
This. And with that said, both Training Grounds and Sylvan Library have great synergy with Thrasios and were auto includes in my list.
Going a step further on the efficiency ladder i'd say Mirri's Guile is an option too.
I tend to disagree. I'm all in for 3~6cmc creaturecards that produce three bodies upon etb. Depending on added utility they are in and all work wonders in my Queen Marchesa pillow fort deck.