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  • posted a message on [ELD] House of Candy
    This land NEEDED to be "Food" itself too.

    Its a house made of candy ! CMON


    That I agree with completely. Making it a Land - Forest Food would have been fun and flavorful... so to speak. Without making it busted, I don't believe.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] House of Candy
    Quote from italofoca »
    Why on earth is a candy house a forest ? ******* awful flavor.


    The gingerbread house is from Hansel and Gretel.

    The whole story is about kids getting abandoned then lost within a forest. Their stepmother decides to take them out in the forest and then leave them there, but Hansel, the brother, initially leaves a trail of white pebbles he'd collected after overhearing the parents agree to abandon the children the previous night, the father reluctantly pushed into it by the stepmother so they don't have to pay to feed them anymore, the family is so poor.

    The kids come back, and their stepmother locks them up so they can't collect more pebbles, but Hansel instead leaves a trail of breadcrumbs from the meager bread meal they had and he saved when their stepmom does the same thing to them. Birds, however, had eaten the breadcrumbs so they are lost deep in the woods.

    They wander for DAYS, starving. Eventually, they happen upon a house made of gingerbread and candy within the forest, which they start to eat ravenously, then the whole witch thing happens, yadda yadda, cannibal, oven, kill the witch, escape, etc.

    The story has always been about a gingerbread house quite specifically hidden deep within a FOREST. It's kind of the entire reason the kids get lost and stumble on it to begin with, because if it weren't a dense forest, they would have made their way home pretty easily.

    Therefore, having the gingerbread house tied to a forest fits the flavor of the fairy tale it's highlighting perfectly. Just perfectly. It's a hugely important part of the story.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    This is hilarious.

    So, normal is, in a world full of Fae, Giants, Elves, etc., there is exactly one black woman who is Queen? That’s out of place. There is no context. Where the hell did she come from? If she was a purple elf, and there were no other elves present, I would be asking the same damn question.

    So to reiterate, for those in the back, where the f*** are the rest of the people that share her characteristics? That’s the point. That is what leads me to believe she is only there to check a damn box. In what world is there exactly one person who looks/acts as they do?

    Color aside, let’s say she speaks freaking French. Would that make a lick of sense? I’d want to know why.

    My question isn’t why is she black, it’s why is she the only black person depicted in this set. That’s normal? There’s what, ~250 cards in this set? It’s normal to reserve 1-3 card slots for art with PoC? By my count, there exactly 3 that clearly depict a PoC in the art. None in crowds.

    You people sit up here and bang the drum of “good job wizards”, yet I’m like, ok you could’ve done more. You don’t normalize anything by introducing in small doses. Give this women some staying power here. Give her a reason to exist.


    Huh, is she? I'm afraid I hadn't noticed that. Nor other people of color mixed in.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    Quote from Boreez »
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    Again, sh***y human beings, all of you. Hell, you judged me and you don’t even know me. That tells me all I need to know about you.


    You truly have been on the receiving end of some pretty big injustices here. I'm just sitting here shaking my head at what you had to go through. If there's anything I can do, let me know. You've been through some s****y stuff on this thread page, been judged and whatnot. Shame on all these people. Shame on them.


    Thank you, your thinly veiled sarcasm truly adds to this discussion. I mean, by all accounts, you truly are a beacon of support here and we should all learn a thing or two from it.

    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    @gutterstorm makes a valid point, but not in the way they had expected. They could literally be any color, so what is the significance here? Why not a Latino? Asian? Or anything in between? What separates her from her peers?


    No actually that’s exactly the point I was making. Her race isn’t relevant. It’s not relevant to her individual character or any tropes she could be portraying. The same way it’s fine to have female knights because gender isn’t relevant to them or the dictions that inspire them. They could be any race, gender or sex and it wouldn’t matter. It’s not like, because she’s dark skinned she’s been through the same thing black people in our world have. I’m not going to go into the ridiculousness of “representation other than to say that if you need someone to look like you in order to empathize with their struggles and journey or to think that you could achieve similarly then that’s a deficiency in you and no one else. Skin color doesn’t matter.


    So this makes the point I was making. I’m not saying that she needs a tragic backstory. But, is it not reasonable to ask why she is who she is? She is a legendary creature after all. There has to be a reason they chose a black woman to be the Twins step-mother, meaning she’s queen. Married to a white man. I’m not suggesting there be incredible detail, but you’ve chosen to cross a handful of barriers, there should be a level of significance to it. If you’re cool with checked boxes, that’s fine. But, I can assure you that’s not the same as respresentation.


    Must utterly disagree. Part of normalizing things like racial diversity is... you know... not bringing up things like "why was she married to a white man?"

    Straight up, pointing out that there simply must be reasons for these details, that there has to be significance to justify its inclusion, flat out continues to other marginalized people. It's very much akin to pointing out that a marriage is interracial or that a couple has a "gay marriage" instead of, you know, just... these two people are married, no more context needed, that continues to highlight them as other, and not simply people who are existing as people doing things people do all the time.

    By not explaining it as being something that requires a reason in any way, it's far more inclusive and presented as simply a normal part of this world. Women are knights, a black woman is married to a white man. None of it is explained, because it's all just a normal part of life on Eldraine. You know, like fairies flying around and giants stomping about and food coming to life and having sentience is just a normal part of life on this world.

    The wildest part is... guess what virtually never needs an explanation for why it is in stories and worlds like this? Fairies, and giants, and living, sentient food. They're allowed to be just a normal part of this world, to simply exist within the world, without any explanation needed. But gender and racial diversity? Nah. That simply must have an explanation to justify it existing.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Wraithe »


    Being his wife doesn't necessarily give her the authority of the High King. Really depends on the laws of the land, so it can't be assumed the wife of the High King has the same authority over the five courts as the High King.


    It still makes her Queen of the High Court. It also means he is king, both of the High Court and Ardenvale(Hence why he is monowhite with 5 activated abilities not 5 color) Thus, hypothetically, she would have higher authority than the rulership of the other four courts. She could have had either design and it be an accurate portrayal of her character. They wanted her to fit into the ruler cycle and made Kennreth special because he was the BaB. The honest shame is that they didn't put some of the more minor characters on the uncommon legends. I.E. Syr Cato for the White uncommon Knight.

    BTW for those who don't mind spoilers or don't intend to read the book you can find a pretty good summary here. (from this guys point of view the book isn't that much more worth a read than the WAR book was.)


    This may come as a shock, but a queen, even the highest queen in a realm, often did NOT have all the powers of the king, especially if the king had a living oldest heir (in the real world usually male heir), and especially if she was not the blood mother of the heir(s). Such a queen would act, at best, as a regent, and answerable to the Lords and to the Crown Prince, without anything near the full powers of the monarchy herself. This is not always the case, but often enough. And we do not know what the laws and courtly rules of Eldraine are, so we still cannot say that Linden herself had the same power over the other Courts of Eldraine, simply because she's the High King's wife.

    In a huge number of societies, Will and/or Rowan would have the power of the throne, and NOT a stepmother queen. So really, it's not at all unreasonable to think Kennreth's abilities represent his power as the High King alone, and having nothing to do with the knightly quests he and Linden apparently undertook in younger days, nor that anyone who's not the High King would NOT have such abilities.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Wraithe »


    Ah, okay. That makes some sense, I suppose.

    That being said, is that what the five color-activated abilities on Kennreth for sure represent? Or is that simply supposition?

    Because--without reading the novel, granted--it makes 100% perfect sense that the High King of the realms has those five different color-based abilities simply because he is the monarch in control of all five mana-color-based Courts of Eldraine. As in, he quite literally has the political authority over and the power to command the use of all five courts of the realm with his word alone by virtue of being the High King, and those activated abilities represent his bringing to bear the power of a given court and its associated virtue (so loyalty for the white court, knowledge for blue, persistence for black, courage for red, and strength for the green court).

    Not because he's undergone all the trials, but simply due to his political position. If the king of another court was the High King, I suspect they, too, would have five colored abilities to represent that authority over the five courts of Eldraine feudalism.


    Linden is his wife... sssssoooooooooo.......... yes?


    Being his wife doesn't necessarily give her the authority of the High King. Really depends on the laws of the land, so it can't be assumed the wife of the High King has the same authority over the five courts as the High King.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Wraithe »


    Why is everyone mentioning her "needing" to be four colors? Isn't she quite literally the queen of the White Court of Ardenvale, as opposed to the
    Black Court of Lochthwain, the Blue Court of Vantress, the Green Court of Garenbrig, and the Red Court of Embereth? So like... she actually represents the monarchy in control of the literally-white-mana-associated court of loyalty within the feudal structure of Eldraine. Why would she be four colors?


    In the book, whilst questing in their youth, Kennreth and Linden sought to acquire knighthoods in all 5 kingdoms. Kennreth achieved this. Linden only got 4. For Kennreth this is reflected in his card having abilities abilites reflecting this. People just want to see such threads carried all the way through.


    Ah, okay. That makes some sense, I suppose.

    That being said, is that what the five color-activated abilities on Kennreth for sure represent? Or is that simply supposition?

    Because--without reading the novel, granted--it makes 100% perfect sense that the High King of the realms has those five different color-based abilities simply because he is the monarch in control of all five mana-color-based Courts of Eldraine. As in, he quite literally has the political authority over and the power to command the use of all five courts of the realm with his word alone by virtue of being the High King, and those activated abilities represent his bringing to bear the power of a given court and its associated virtue (so loyalty for the white court, knowledge for blue, persistence for black, courage for red, and strength for the green court).

    Not because he's undergone all the trials, but simply due to his political position. If the king of another court was the High King, I suspect they, too, would have five colored abilities to represent that authority over the five courts of Eldraine feudalism.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from user-11102155 »
    i get that she is part of a cycle
    but storywise this doesnt fit, right ?
    i mean the king is also white with 5 color abilities to mirror his 5 knighthoods. i get that they dont want to make her a cheap copy. so why not make her a 4 color creature instead (like a new atraxa). i am sure they got plenty other legends in the story to fill the role for the white card in the cycle


    Why is everyone mentioning her "needing" to be four colors? Isn't she quite literally the queen of the White Court of Ardenvale, as opposed to the
    Black Court of Lochthwain, the Blue Court of Vantress, the Green Court of Garenbrig, and the Red Court of Embereth? So like... she actually represents the monarchy in control of the literally-white-mana-associated court of loyalty within the feudal structure of Eldraine. Why would she be four colors?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Malditos nerd preview - blacklance paragon
    Quote from AnneJello »
    Quote from AnImAr_ »
    This thing literally says "destroy target creature. You gain 3 life." As is, it's stats are good for the tribe and good beats are always welcome.


    I think you mean "destroy target ATTACKING creature" ... not quite as strong.


    Target attacking or BLOCKING creature in knight tribal. Makes it noticeably stronger; just like the tricks with Dire Fleet Poisoner enabling a smaller pirate to get in a kill on the attack when it otherwise wouldn't.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mark Rosewater - glass casket
    Quote from Crispen_Smith »
    Quote from Cainsson »
    This whole colored artifacts thing seems to be closing design space rather than opening. It's literally an easier to kill Silkwrap


    From a design perspective the fact that mono red will have a solution to this may well be the "opened up" design space... It's balanced now whereas as an enchantment it wasn't.


    It opens up design space on multiple fronts. Not just in the way you touch upon. It also means they get to experiment with more powerful effects that wax and wane by type tailored to the environment, and also suitable for eternal formats in various ways. They play with an effect and it's a little too good on an enchantment? Try the same exact effect/cost on an artifact, and see how it plays out. The reverse is true, and something is too good on an artifact? Swap it to an enchantment, see how it plays.

    It also allows format-centric experimentation. Take this very pair of cards, Silkwrap and Glass Casket. Just this pair. In normal play and eternal formats, it's more likely the artifact will be somewhat easier to remove, sure... but also easier to go grab from your deck or elsewhere, as tutoring/digging for artifacts is more common. In formats where they decide to go in another direction, like, say, Theros--where enchantments might be far more common, and in turn enchantment hate and synergy more ubiquitous--then making the exact same effect an artifact is harder to get rid of, but also harder to dig for. The opposite of artifacts in traditional sets/blocks/formats.

    But the Casket is NOT merely an easier to kill Silkwrap. It's also an easier to go grab Silkwrap, and an easier to recover from the 'yard Silkwrap in most formats. Meaning it's quite literally a pure expansion of design space. You now get the same exact effect for the exact same mana cost on two fronts that each have different benefits and weaknesses. And design can play around with that space, and flip it on its head for specific formats, like a Theros-centric environment and its differences wrt enchantments.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Thunderous snapper
    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from Wraithe »
    Hydras without an X is just terrible design.

    Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.


    "Supposed to"? By what metric of "supposed to" in a fantasy world?

    I mean, we certainly aren't talking about the Magic the Gathering multiverse, right?


    Kalonian Hydra, Bioessence Hydra, and both Phytohydras are actually the kind of hydras that the person you are quoting is talking about. They are growing heads in some way.

    I agree hydras don't have to grow, but you are kind of proving their point a little.


    Not really? Bioessence, perhaps it's growing heads, perhaps it's getting larger. And Simic? The Simic Combine is often shown making things grow larger in an uncontrollable manner. So many biohazardous experiments of extreme growing out of control.

    Kalonian? Nothing whatsoever indicates it's growing heads, what with it affecting every single creature you control. So unless its theme, not shown on the card in any way, shape, or form, is "I make all of you also have more than one head!", it's much more likely it's theme, which talks only about feeding time, and shows a gargantuan monster eating everything in sight, including trees, is about magically making everything around go on a feeding frenzy that cause them to all grow more and more massive.

    The phytohydras, per Sprouting Phytohydra's text, are plant-like, including not merely growing out of control, but budding into more and more and more plants. Not at all like the Lernaean hydra, and very much classic plants growing out of control type stuff.

    Regardless, they have no X in the cost or in the text, and there were thirteen examples provided. The oldest of which is from Stronghold, which was released over 21 years ago in March of 1998, and has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with growing more heads.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Thunderous snapper
    Hydras without an X is just terrible design.

    Hydras are supposed to grow heads , this is just ABUSING the tribal name and thats outright bad.


    "Supposed to"? By what metric of "supposed to" in a fantasy world?

    I mean, we certainly aren't talking about the Magic the Gathering multiverse, right?

    This is a wonderful card, and one of the best of the cycle. I love the theme of turtle hydras, and of each plane within the Magic multiverse exploring classic mythological creatures in new and unique ways, including but not limited to not having all hydras following the Hydra itself, the Lernaean Hydra, unique and completely immortal child of Typhon and Echidna, who had one immortal head that could only be contained by trapping it under a rock, had heads that sprouted two in the place of one if not sealed shut with fire, whose heads could all spit deadly acid sprays, and whose blood was so deadly, a single dip of an arrow in its blood could slay any non-immortal monster struck by it. But since we're not talking about THE Hydra, and instead are talking about a whole and wildly varied class of creature since adopted into myth across the world and in many fantasy settings, I'm all for not every type of hydra having to regenerate heads like the child of Echidna and Typhon.


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] four new food cards
    I'm not in love with the idea of Black and Green caring about Food, which, bizarrely, is an artifact of all things. It makes sense flavorwise, because one of the intersections of Black and Green is definitely parasitism, but it's just kind of random and slapdash, to my mind.


    Artifacts just mean anything that's an object. That's it. Even natural objects can be an artifact, within the game itself. Mark Rosewater has even explained this verbatim, explictly stating that, "Because we don’t have a Natural card type. Artifact, the card type, is broader than the normal definition. Let’s say we have a magical rock. What card type would it be? It would be an artifact. Natural items can be Magic: The Gathering card type “artifact”."

    In fact, the most well-known and expensive artifact in the entire game, the Black Lotus, is a flower that actually grows all over the Magic multiverse. Just grows out in nature, in certain places. It's not an object of artifice, it's just a very, very, very powerfully-infused with mana flower that grows from the ground.

    Basically, they didn't use the term "object" as a card type when the game began, and they were stuck with it after many years of it being "artifact".

    So Clue tokens (which could be ANY clue, not some artificial object; a Clue token could represent a patch of fur stuck on a tree, for example), and Food tokens, as well as cards like Black Lotus and Golden Egg, are artifacts within the context of Magic, because the term "artifact" in magic does NOT mean an object of artifice. It means any object at all.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ayara, First of Locthwain
    Quote from bobthefunny »
    Medieval fashion was quite a bit different from ours today. I see a lot of inspiration from various points of medieval fashion in the art style of this piece, from the large shoulders on the dress, the tight fitted top, a corset-looking addition, and a looser more flowing bottom part to the dress. Even the hat and veil fit in well. I think the artist did a pretty good job pulling together inspiration from various styles of courtly dress, and tying them together in a dark and sinister vibe that befits the card and colors.







    Not to mention, what's considered to be sufficiently alluring and revealing differs not only from society to society, but from social class to social class within a society. In some societies, expensive, elegant clothing that hides a lot but leave just hints of where a person't curves and angles are is considered much more alluring than something revealing far more skin. Such clothing would never be considered "frumpy" by those societal standards. Frumpy means clothing that is out of date and generally very banal in appearance for the culture it is appearing in. In other cultures, the wealthier you are, the more you're allowed to walk around with very little to nothing at all on, as a sign of your status. Literally so, where a poor person could be arrested or worse for wearing little to nothing, while a very wealthy person is allowed to walk around naked as a status symbol. And everything in between also occurs. It's terribly nuanced.

    But yes, for a medieval style culture like Eldraine has, clothing that covers you up a great deal, including veiling part of your face, while revealing just hints of where curves are and things like lips being highlighted by veils or the like, is often considered FAR more alluring for a seductress than wearing something revealing. Only the peasantry wears such revealing clothing or so few layers of clothing in many such societies. The wealthier you were, the more layers of and complexity of undergarments and overgarments you could afford to wear. So wearing something that covers you up entirely while showing off your wealth and status would be highly seductive indeed, and the lower classes would emulate those looks as best as they could afford to whenever possible.

    In fact, a lot of details on Araya's clothes match late medieval high nobility dress. That hat? Hell, yes. The form-fitting upper body clothing, but with extra layers of detail on the corset/girdle? Yep, only the very upper classes were even ALLOWED to wear metal or jeweled girdles and the like; even low-upper class people were forbidden to do so. The much larger, exaggerated shoulders? Yep, a whole lot of late medieval high fashion for woman has large amounts of extra material bunched around the shoulders rather that fitting the form of the shoulders snugly. The veil? Yep, the Church basically required by law that women wear veils, but the wealthier you were, the more sheer the veil as you could afford the richest of materials that allowed such veils. And those styles of hat were designed with the veils in mind.

    This whole outfit screams cutting edge medieval upper class. The exact opposite of frumpy. This would be considered extremely appealing in upper class society.

    Not to mention, physical beauty standards are subjective and related to the culture they come from, as well. What we consider traditionally beautiful today is not what every culture considered the same, or even what OUR OWN CULTURE considered beautiful mere decades ago. At all. We have no idea what is considered stunningly attractive in Eldraine society.

    Think Rubenesque women being considered a sign of being wealthy, healthy, and beautiful. Why? Because it meant they had sufficient means and luxury, and that was a highly physically attractive trait. Ancient Greece, the Italian Renaissance, and Victorian England are times and places where the ideal beauty standards of the time explicitly list features such as a heavily rounded belly, prominent rounded hips, etc, were flat-out considered very beautiful. The roaring 20s in the United States were the opposite, where a flat chest, boyish figure, short hair, and androgyny in general, was considered the most beautiful of "ideal" look for a woman amongst many.

    Same with things like, oh, noses and eyes. In many times and cultures, having a larger and/or sharper nose was a sign of beauty. Especially if that nose type was prominent amongst the nobility but not the common folk. Same with various shapes or types of eyes. Even some terms used indicate these preferences. Handsome women, for example. When that term was in use a lot, the term "handsome" meant sharp-featured. Literally sharp-featured. As in, sharp, angular nose and jawline, etc. A handsome woman was strikingly beautiful BECAUSE of her sharp, angular features.

    There is no one-size-fits-all objective standard.

    Modern beauty standards are just that: modern. They hardly represent anything resembling what even a handful of decades ago differed in beauty standards. I am quite certain there are many times, places, cultures, and people, who would and do find someone who looks like this art of Ayara to be stunningly attractive. It's most assuredly not even close to objective that she's anything approaching unattractive. And it's not even close to close that what she's wearing would be considered unsexy by the upper class in particular. Very, very, very much the contrary, what she's wearing has a whole helluva lot in common with middle to late medieval upper class standards that would be considered cutting edge, would dominate within the courts and ballrooms, and so on.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ayara, First of Locthwain
    Quote from CatParty »
    Is she intended to be akin to the Queen of Air and Darkness, i.e Morgause of T.H. White's Once and Future King iteration of Arthurian lore?


    Morgause is Queen in Arthurian legendsm wife of Uther Pendragon, and mother to Agravain, Clarissant, Gaheris, Gareth, Gawain, Mordred, and Soredamor, from way back in the 13th century. Could represent her, could represent Morgan le Fay (one of Morgause's sisters, mind you, Morgan was a largely benevolent individual in the old Arthurian myths, and ally and protector of Arthur, who was a powerful healer that saved Arthur's life, then evolved into a stark duality figure capable of both profound good and uncaring evil).

    So my guess is Ayara is the modern mixture of Morgause and Morgan.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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