- clockwork_revolutionary2213
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Jul 16, 2018clockwork_revolutionary2213 posted a message on MTGSalvation's Deckbuilder is Here!Figured I'd post in here, since I can't find a support thread for the deck builder, but Jace, the Mind Sculptor is not showing up as Modern Legal (Bloodbraid Elf shows up though)Posted in: Articles
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Dec 14, 2017clockwork_revolutionary2213 posted a message on MTGSalvation's Deckbuilder is Here!It seems like Khans of Tarkir is missing from the modern format, is that an issue for everyone, or just me?Posted in: Articles
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Yea, I was too 'knee-jerk' wanting to slice out the discard spells after just a handful of games. I'll keep the list at what it is currently until I get more games in.
As for the sideboard, the Collective Brutalitys are for the Burn match, the Damnation and Explosives are for the go wide strategies (I like to have varied solutions, especially with Meddling Mage floating about). I'm testing the Liliana's Defeat (and maybe a Jace's Defeat as well), as I expect an uptick in Liliana's, and that can be especially disastrous, especially a Liliana, the Last Hope. It's an efficient card when it get brought in, and I think one is good for now. I'm also expecting lots of strategies which don't care about the unbannings (Dredge, Storm, Tron, etc), so the sideboard has hedged with the Ravenous Trap and the Ceremonious Rejections.
Due to card availability, I’m playing -1 Jace, +1 Fatal Push since my local store tournament doesn’t allow proxies.
I played a couple of games vs Humans (a home brew version) in between draft rounds at FNM, going 2-3. We were just playing for fun, and I made a few errors/ plays for style points. It seemed to me, that if swarm decks like that get ahead, it’s difficult to fight through and protect a Jace. Bitterblossom is one of the best cards outside of removal in the early game. Also, there’s some hard decisions in this matchup if you need to -1 Jace, as quite a few creatures have ETBs (this version had Venser, Shaper Savant).
After those few games, I’m a little unimpressed by the discard and counterspells. I know we can Jace them away, but if we don’t have a fetch, we’re just hitting them again, and they also are kinda bad to draw off the 0 ability. I know Thoughtseize is a nessisary evil sort of card, and the counterspells help in some matches, but it just didn’t feel great hitting them when digging for action cards. It’s bad enough that we have dead Bitterblossoms in the deck, which clog up the ‘brainstorms’. Opt also feels like a nessisary evil. It helps find lands, and smooth draws out, but it also sometimes feel like spinning wheels and durdling around. What if we cut the three Opt for Ancestral Vision, the Mana Leak for Snapcaster #4 or Vendilion Clique #3, leaving one counterspell for emergencies. Is there anyone who shares these sentiments?
Thanks for the critique bud!
I had worries about not playing Opt, I thought about it, I tried to make it work in the current list, and just decided to go for the discard spells and be proactive. I get your point on the discard spells, and I was probably a little too focused on 'force through Bitterblossom and Jace, or take their own Jace' thinking. I also agree with your thoughts on Liliana. Looking back now, it seems like i'm trying to make the deck more Jund like, which isn't the way to go.
I'm not the hugest person for Collective Brutality though. In the past, I haven't liked it as much in the maindeck, as I'd prefer to hold up a counterspell, or a catch all removal spell, and the escalate on Brutality sometimes meant awkward positions in the early game if you needed to deal with something quick. I've found it to be sub-optimal in some matchups, such as Humans (their stuff can grow out of range, and they have few spells), U/x control decks (two mana sorcery speed half Duress is kinda mediocre), where as I'd rather as many of my maindeck cards do something, regardless of the opponent's deck. I've found that vs Burn, game 1 is still just so bad regardless of Brutality in the main (unless its 2+, then you're good).
I do want to play the full set of Cryptic Commands though, it's a personal preference (it's gotten me out of many jams, and I love the card to death). That being said, I do like your idea of playing 25 lands. I'll see if I can make that work in a future list (of course, that means I'll need a third signed foil Tar Pit #humblebag)
4 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creatures (9)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mistbind Clique
Spells (20)
4 Cryptic Command
4 Thoughtseize
3 Opt
3 Fatal Push
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Dismember
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Island
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana’s Defeat
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ravenous Trap
I took some of your advice, and although it looks weird to me to only be playing 3 Fatal Push and 3 Opt, it's completely possible that it's correct. I also hedged a bit on the counterspells. Mana Leak is good early, and Logic Knot is good late, especially with the extra fetchland and cheap spells. I may have made a mistake cutting the Inquisitions completely out, but I think Thoughtseize is the discard spell I'd want the most, and without Liliana, we won't be discarding dead copies. I think 4 discard spells looks right. It's also totally possible that I'm misinterpreting your ideas and internalizing biases, but who knows? What do you think of this new version?
I second this. I do most of my posting here while I'm at work between calls, and don't have access to Discord.
Yea, it may be a little dicey. I wanted Thoughtseize to fight opposing Jaces and Bloodbraid Elf, a Dismember to take down any big threats, or dorks that are hard to Push (I'm thinking Hazoret may see more play in some red decks out of the sideboard, I know a few locals who like the idea), and Bitterblossom is good at protecting us/ planeswalkers and just grinding. It's also good to land a Bitterblossom after a Thoughtseize, cause you have the chance to just run away with the game. Also, it's not as if we'll cast all four Thoughtseizes, or even all the Bitterblossoms in a game, especially with Liliana and Jace to filter through them.
I just wanted to be doing something proactive right now, until we know which decks are better or worse and what threats get played, I didn't want to have Spell Snares or random counterspells yet. It's better to make the opponent react to you. Everything in the deck is good against the majority of decks, with enough interaction to compete. I'm hoping to get some games in between draft rounds at FNM tonight, so I'll keep things updated.
Jace Faeries
4 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (10)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mistbind Clique
Spells (20)
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Dismember
Lands (24)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Island
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
Sideboard
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana’s Defeat
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ravenous Trap
I added a Scalding Tarn over Bloodstained Mire, as I only have one basic Swamp, and I’d prefer if my fetches got the most possible targets. It may be better to play a 3/2 split of basics, but I’m not sure. All I know is I wanted an extra one to help vs all the Field of Ruin and Path to Exile going around.
The other questionable choice is the full 4 Cryptic Command. I’ll admit, I’m most likely wrong here, I just love this card too much.
What do you think? Is this a good way going forward?
I agree. I think Faeries is one of the better decks for main board Jace, though probably not in the 4 of amount. I think 3 is probably good, though 2 may turn out to be better after testing.
My other thinking is, do we want to still play cards like Opt, or turn our focus to Serum Visions or Ancestral Vision? Should we be a tap out, play something every turn style deck, with Collective Brutality, Thoughtseize, maybe even some number of Liliana (either version), or a more reactive style deck?
Here's a version of the tap out style I'm talking about:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Fatal Push
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cryptic Command
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Collective Brutality
4 Polluted Delta
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
2 Watery Grave
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
2 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
And here's the more reactive build:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
4 Opt
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Disrupting Shoal
1 Countersquall
4 Polluted Delta
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
2 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
Yea, I liked avoiding Thoughtseize before due to the life loss, but now I think playing some number is correct. Being able to hit the opposing Jace or BBE, or even clearing the way for our Jace is just too good to ignore. I think Jace can now help us close the game out before the life loss becomes an issue, though we can even toss in one or two Collective Brutality if it becomes a problem.
I don't think we want to be fighting Bloodbraid Elf on that axis. Disallow just seems like a slightly better Cancel, and Faeries isn't chomping at the bit for that right now. If Nimble Obstructionist was a faerie, or was 1U to cycle, I'd like it more, but as it is, it isn't worth it for the edge case of getting someone with it. I don't think trying to stop the cascade trigger will be worth jumping through hoops for.
I'm thinking of hopping on the Disrupting Shoal train, adding a 1 of copy to the maindeck. I think playing a third Vendilion Clique is also good, as it can disrupt other Jace decks (and surprise kill Jace to), as well as be a three drop to pitch to Shoal. It's even cheaper than Bloodbraid Elf, and can take it out of the opponents hand. There's just so many options right now. The other idea is, do we want to move the deck to a more controlling stance, basically UB Control with the Faerie subtheme? Something like this maybe:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Logic Knot
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
3 Watery Grave
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
2 Swamp
2 Field of Ruin
1 Bloodstained Mire
I don't know how much we should go in either direction. Is a tempo based strategy, like the current builds, the correct way, or is Faeries now just worse than playing straight UB Control?
What if we go up on lands to 25 or 26? We have the Tar Pits to act as mana sinks, Jace + fetch to shuffle dead ones away. maybe playing a singleton Field of Ruin to help vs utility lands/Tron (I'm not sold on that, I hate having more than the 4 colorless lands).
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mistbind Clique
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Spell Snare
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Logic Knot
1 Dismember
4 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
3 Watery Grave
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
Even adding the extra Tar Pit gives us game against other control decks. I think Dismember is worth playing in the maindeck, as I have a tingly feeling that Hazoret may be played a bit as a 'Jace Killer' going forward (I know it competes with the Elf, but sometimes you just smash for 5 and activate the ability). I feel the concern about too many 4 drops, and maybe it's correct to cut Cryptic Command before cutting Mistbind, but Cryptic gets us out of tight spots better than Mistbind in my opinion.
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Mistbind Clique
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Spell Snare
1 Hero’s Downfall
2 Go for the Throat
1 Logic Knot
4 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
3 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
I like having Spell Snares, at least going forward, as I expect a lot of Control decks or Bloodbraid Elf decks. Countering a Search For Azcanta is really good, so is stopping a free Goyf or Dreadbore, or any other thing. Three might've been too much, but it's what I was playing before. I added the Bloodstained Mire as an extra fetch to get value of Brainstorming, as well as adding a little extra delve fuel for Logic Knot. I'm not sure if I want to fully cut Opt, or even if we should shift back towards Ancestral Vision and play a more controlling build.
I think I failed to fully explain what I meant when I said we needed to just survive to land Jace. I don't expect him to be our win condition, but I do believe that if we control the game enough and survive to cast him, it will propel us far enough ahead that we can win with anything. In my head, we basically need to hold the line until our tanks (in this case Jace) come in, after which we can begin to storm ahead (I've been reading a lot of war novels lately). Faeries is a deck that relies heavily on having the right answer at the right moment, and Jace really helps that plan.
I'm slightly worried about how Bloodbraid Elf will effect our desire to control the board. I'm not to worried about the 3/2 body so much as the free value (I never played Modern when it was legal before, and I don't know the best way to fight it). Is it worth trying to hold up counters and stopping what ever free spell they get, or is it too random to be worth trying to stop, and we should just hold our breath and spin the wheel? Should we focus more on cheap hand disruption and counterspells like Remand and such? I can't wait to play with Jace, but man is it getting stressful trying to figure out what to do.
Jace Faeries
4 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creatures (9)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Spells (20)
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
4 Opt
3 Spell Snare
2 Remand
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Logic Knot
Lands (24)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
3 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
I’ve been back and forth on if I want Thoughtseize or other discard, since it’s basically stay alive till Jace comes down. I also took Mistbind clique out so as not to clunk up the 4 drop slot. Maybe I should keep a Mistbind in and cut the 4th Cryptic instead. This has thrown a huge wrench into all the testing I’ve done with this deck, but Jace is fun in EDH, so maybe it’ll be fun in modern
Jace Faeries
4 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creatures (9)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Spells (20)
4 Fatal Push
4 Cryptic Command
4 Opt
3 Spell Snare
2 Remand
1 Hero’s Downfall
1 Go for the Throat
1 Logic Knot
Lands (24)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
3 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
I’ve been back and forth on if I want Thoughtseize or other discard, since it’s basically stay alive till Jace comes down. I also took Mistbind clique out so as not to clunk up the 4 drop slot. Maybe I should keep a Mistbind in and cut the 4th Cryptic instead. This has thrown a huge wrench into all the testing I’ve done with this deck, but Jace is fun in EDH, so maybe it’ll be fun in modern