Grape, you say there is zero reason to think that mafia has extra KP however there is zero reason to think they don't. I'm not in the habit of throwing games, especially when there's an outed mafia flailing around. Enough is enough already. Grape has had plenty of time to produce something substantial and has done nothing. All we've had is trying to hide behind a claim that is full of holes and empty words. There has been nothing substantial provided to back up any claims Grape has made against others. Oh, and does no one else think it strange that Jenna has had sweet FA to say about someone claiming KP put on her failed? Because that's pretty bonkers to me.
We are definitely lynching Grape today. Anyone who thinks no lynching today is a good idea is either a lunatic or mafia (or both).
I believe that Jenna is most likely a wolf, we can evaluate that further as the day progresses and through tomorrow.
I am not as convinced as pizza is that Killjoy is a wolf. I'm struggling to find a third wolf that sticks out much at the moment. Pizza and Tau seem the towniest right now, but outside of them I can make a town case or a wolf case for any of them.
I have no keyboard at the moment, so will fully post tomorrow. OSK is frustratingly slow.
Grape is lying because Bear repaced after EoD though IIRC. Never mind the other nonsense. It is impossible for a D1 shot to be Grape's choice . Simple as.
aAny town thinking about a NL right now must be pretty new to mafia.
Still catching up and busy over the next two days.
I'm glad you've explained night 1 pizza, as I was going to bring it up today. I'm going to confirm that targeted actions fails on pizza night 1, and also point out that based on his approach since joining the game paired with him fully declaring what happened n1 has him firmly in my town. I'm not sure I agree 100% with the scum circle but it's very close to where I'm at right now.
Obviously the shenanigans at the close of yesterday has greatly helped us and we have a very clear lynch today. Fortunately that gives me plenty of time to solve everything.
unvote
This isn't just because it's unlikely that Tubba will get traction today, I believe there are people that have moved ahead of him to be lynched.
I feel there are wolves in the replacements too, but perhaps not all of the team.
I have concerns about Grapefruit. It's really selfish, but I'm most baffled by his read on me. It really feels like an "I know he's town" post. It's quite a hefty town-read to give someone who's not under any pressure and a lot of it feels like a pocket attempt, but why pocket me? I don't know, I'm really wavering on how I feel about this. Initially I thought it was town, especially for the evaluation of me on Tubba. Since then I've thought it's more scummy as there's no real need to post that in depth of a read on me as town. If I'm reading someone as town I don't tend to investigate and explain any further than necessary, I need to spend my time gathering evidence against my scum-reads. I think overall I'm reading it as a scum-post for providing little actual content, and definitely nothing necessary right now. It also provides a call-back for Grape to say "I told you so" if/when I flip. There's just this thing in my head screaming at me that these are the type of things that I can completely mis-read and maybe Grape's just town with a strong read. After all, the read is not incorrect.
I'm sorry for that being a bit of a messy ramble and a selfish based post, but I want to get this thought out there. I'm just still struggling with it and wanting it out there before end of day.
@Pizza
I think you're pretty obviously agenda pushing, given how much you're focusing on persuading with theatrics rather than logic.
In particular I have no idea why you ISO'd Tubba(#502) and Jenna(#514) but not DoTA, your highest townread who has been aggro'd more than either. I would like you to make your case on town!DoTA similar to those posts.
The question I'm asking myself right now is "Is pizza trying to seize the lynch because he thinks town is wrong or is he scum covering for his buddy DoTA?"
I'm going to compile all my cases against DoTA together at some point this Day phase (yay extension) so you can respond to it, but I'm not remotely convinced by you pointing to a single post.
I haven't read the game but we should lynch Pizza today.
@Voxx: Is it wise to bring that up now? Why paint a target on your head as a PR at the beginning of Day 2?
Let's just say I thought about it fully before bringing it up, and let wolves worry about what that means.
Well if you're town and you weren't blocked by a wolf, then you've given them information about yourself and other town. It seems to me that town doesn't really benefit from this information at the moment. You say you've "thought about it fully", but I still feel it's short-sighted.
With pizza coming out and saying he wasn't actually RoleBlocked, this feels like scum tmi. vote Colin
Colin, why did you immediately assuming a town roleblocker?
@Grapefruit: Why is Colin so strongly town?
I did not assume a town roleblocker. You should probably read messages better if you're going to comment on them.
I put forward the scenario where if he is town it is most harmful to town. If he is town and blocked by a wolf then the wolves already have that information and he is not harming town by sharing it.
As hypocritical as it is for me to talk about disappointing behaviour, I am disappointed at the replacements going on but it's not like I can do anything about it. It's especially disappointing that I can't talk to Voxx and establish what on Earth was going on. I've got a few theories about the whole situation, but nothing that worth pursuing given the circumstances. Going on from that at this point I've only skim-read a lot of pizza's posts. There's a lot of content to go through there, which is nice but I'm struggling to get it all inside my head right now. My initial evaluation is why would a wolf that's subbed in to a slot that's in no great danger put in this level of an effort? From the content I have read fully and the volume there I'm feel this is someone that wants to get the game moving and actually finding some wolves. going from the initial read and on to something more substantial I'm going to stick this slot back in town and just ignore the roleblock shenanigans for now.
With there being just over a day until deadline, I need to look in to the people on the chopping board some more so I'm not going to worry too much about not going through every word from pizza.
I'm going to throw down where I'm at. If I get your gender wrong I'm sorry, I'm just typing instinctively and I have no idea who any of you are (apart from the Bear).
The most important thing I think town should know about me is that I am an emotional player and tend to trust my feelings and instinct more than actual content, but only if those feelings are especially strong. Also, this doesn't mean I don't take note of content because I do. I'll to give a loose example; if I have a strong feeling that someone is mafia, they'll have to produce more substantial content from a town perspective than someone who I have no strong feelings about in order for me to read them town. Of course the opposite applies too.
Tubba completely avoiding addressing my post is pretty bonkers considering the other engagement he's shown.
Junna's continued evasiveness (which was brought up on day one by me and others) and misinformation has pretty much hit breaking point for me. I'd be happy to lynch her today if Tubba doesn't get traction (or if he preforms a miracle).
I just don't see the benefit in doing any heavy lifting to change your opinion of me. Your read is wrong, and that's all there is to it. My play style doesn't match up with your expectations. I'm ok with it. Since that's a non-starter, I'm not going to say anything else about it.
I think your off on Jenna as well. While her posts are certainly cryptic at first glance, imo she's not spreading misinformation nor being especially evasive. I was frustrated by the posting style as well, but would scum really draw such negative attention? That's a hell of a gambit.
Speaking of gambits, I can't help but be suspicious of Voxx right now. He's perfectly suited to take a chance on a Hail Mary after banking town cred on the Vaimes read of him.
That's a post series that muddles the game as opposed to helping solve it. Town chases its tail trying to figure out how scum knows where the power is, we give Voxx more town cred as town power, but we don't actually gain any information.
This assumes scumVoxx is real, of course. That's something I want to hear opinions on.
That's not a great stance to have. Instead of explaining your actions you're deflecting.
I stand by bringing attention towards Jenna today. I think it was a good place to go and the fact that she engages more than most others in the thread means that it should provide benefit for town regardless of her alignment.
@Killjoy
If scumVoxx is real, claiming role blocked is a risk, but if it works, gives him a good chance to survive and do some damage. The payoff is more players rolling to his narrative, no longer seriously suspecting him at worst, and taking his opinions as gospel at best. If he solidifies even just two or three town reads on him, it works to buy him a few days/possible mislynches. It leaves him open to claim at a later date, and open to pushing fake news on the thread. While this is simply a theory of mine at this point, I want everyone to be aware of the possibilities and not fall prey to the gambit.
Your suspicion of Voxx has been something I've liked today. As I previously indicated (#360), I am not a fan of revealing that information (assuming it's true). I've been considering the options and instinctively it read more like a town who's posted and then sloppily tried to cover it instead of saying they acted rashly. Upon my first read I was influence by how I felt about Voxx day 1, of course. There was certainly an aura of suspicion around him because of that. The further posts by Voxx today are a poor showing too. I'm definitely at the point where I'm largely uneasy about him.
In my experience a "reads-post" would be more indicative of scum. It gives more room for maneuverability and it's lazier. The post felt really good to me. When I read it I felt comfortable, like it's a natural post rather than a constructed one. As I've said earlier I'm an emotional player, so that's going to skew things which can be read multiple ways at times. Either way, I think the post is a good measuring stick showing Killjoy's thought process which can be used to compare future posts and interactions.
Could you give an example of something you think Killjoy has committed to? Give an example of something Killjoy could post that you would call a walk-back. Because right now he hasn't committed to any reads except Voxx being Town, which was justified with false premises anyway.
I'm actually in the process of looking deeper into Killjoy at the moment. I'm not sure whether I'll get it up today or tomorrow as my schedule has gone a little haywire this weekend.
Junna's continued evasiveness (which was brought up on day one by me and others) and misinformation has pretty much hit breaking point for me. I'd be happy to lynch her today if Tubba doesn't get traction (or if he preforms a miracle).
@Voxx: Is it wise to bring that up now? Why paint a target on your head as a PR at the beginning of Day 2?
Let's just say I thought about it fully before bringing it up, and let wolves worry about what that means.
Well if you're town and you weren't blocked by a wolf, then you've given them information about yourself and other town. It seems to me that town doesn't really benefit from this information at the moment. You say you've "thought about it fully", but I still feel it's short-sighted.
Hey, I hope you can accept my apologies for missing EoD.
Sucks to lose Bear, now all my friends have been replaced. ;(
As previously requested by , here's an expansion of how I felt about Tubba. I've also added all content from him since then.
#47 - Irrelevant RVS, therefore it's ignored.
#95 - As I said before, this feels like a lame attempt at getting town-cred. It's such a meaningless post that tries to come across as if something of value is in it.
#99 - 100% fluff, which again attempted to come across as if there's value.
#104 - Unnecessary post. These try to promote the impression of activity when doing nothing at all.
#106 - I honestly don't know. Completely pointless though.
#107 - A weak attempt at a defence of #104.
#124 - No actual substance to the read.
#130 - An alarming amount of narration. Describing what has happened without actually giving any input on it is very scummy. The questions at Jenna are an attempt at interaction (however, see #140).
#131 - Pure narration. This is pointless fluff.
#136 - A very defensive post, that seems disproportionate to what has happened.
#140 - Having seen the answers the questions he asked, he has no opinion on it and asks for no clarification to clear up his lack of understanding.
#150 & #153 - Tau in #151 brings up a good point. If one is so conscious of waiting to vote and fully assessing the situation then why participate in RVS which completely contradicts this? I am a player that likes to think my vote matters. Therefore I am very careful about when I place it and why. If I had a strong scum-read which Tubba had I'd be voting on it instantly instead of deciding to "wait and see what else happened." (Also #140 is relevant to this)
The rest is after my post containing my initial read.
#160 - A complete lack of asking about the read, or trying to gain information of any sort. Just another fluff post.
#194 - Repetition, and it seems very early to be pushing a world on people.
#198 - He states towards me "your statement that you don't think I'm posting like mafia is somewhat troubling" when I've said his posts are a guide to how not to post as mafia. This means that he is very much posting like mafia. Tubba then goes on to say that I find him deceptively scummy, which is nothing close to what I have said. Also, I don't know about anyone else but I can read content as scummy without directly interacting.
#260 - Mostly a repetition post. A couple of names added to his scum-circle, but no actual substance.
#276 - If he's got not previous experience with Bear, why the RVS?
#279 - This feels like an empty question. It seems to me that there isn't actually anything of value that would come from it.
#292 - Where did my name go? If he's reading me in his "top three" as he previously mentioned, why am I no longer on the chopping block? This reads to me as him realising that he's not going to get any sort of traction on that particular mis-lynch so he's forgotten it. It was never actually a read.
#304 - More trying to push his world on others. Further pushing for others to provide content for him, as he is unable to do so alone.
#324, #326, #328, #337 - No content here. There's no strong attempt to push the lynch through too. This is his number one scum and she might not get lynched. Where's the passion?
I believe that Tubba Fett has provided a clear history of defensive and tunneling posts which have provided little, if any value.
Upon lining up all of his "content" together, I do not see how Tubba can be town.
Could you summarize the thought process you see in #142?
I felt the post presented someone who was going through the thread and noting anything of interest that they had a comment on. It felt natural as Killjoy seemed to not be concerned about how long ago the post was made and if it was still relevant in the current time. If he had something to say, it didn't matter that the moment had passed he wanted to say it. For me, it showed that he wanted to be involved in the game and give content on what had happened so far without it. It presents a lot of opportunities for the other players to interact with him, which would have otherwise been missed due to him not being present in the game before that. Also, he's asking questions of other players and actively seeking out those interactions.
This is terrible.
First sentence is "I feel like Killjoy is reading the thread, and therefore and Townreading him" ???
Second/Third sentences are....I don't know where or how much forum mafia you've played in the past but necroquoting (neologism by me, pretty clear analogy to necroposting) is something I've seen from scum more often than Town. For the exact reasons you mentioned, it helps players look Town while being significantly less +EV Town than most other types of content. Also, a good amount of the content in #142 was the equivalent of Killjoy responding to a post with "lol".
Fourth sentence "presents a lot of opportunities for the other players to interact with him": That would be a lot better accomplished with a reads-post, and having everybody start arguing about necroquotes tends to degrade Town conversation more than it actually helps.
Final sentence is fine, although asking questions as scum isn't rocket science.
In my experience a "reads-post" would be more indicative of scum. It gives more room for maneuverability and it's lazier. The post felt really good to me. When I read it I felt comfortable, like it's a natural post rather than a constructed one. As I've said earlier I'm an emotional player, so that's going to skew things which can be read multiple ways at times. Either way, I think the post is a good measuring stick showing Killjoy's thought process which can be used to compare future posts and interactions.
We are definitely lynching Grape today. Anyone who thinks no lynching today is a good idea is either a lunatic or mafia (or both).
I believe that Jenna is most likely a wolf, we can evaluate that further as the day progresses and through tomorrow.
I am not as convinced as pizza is that Killjoy is a wolf. I'm struggling to find a third wolf that sticks out much at the moment. Pizza and Tau seem the towniest right now, but outside of them I can make a town case or a wolf case for any of them.
Vote: Grapefruit21
Grape is lying because Bear repaced after EoD though IIRC. Never mind the other nonsense. It is impossible for a D1 shot to be Grape's choice . Simple as.
aAny town thinking about a NL right now must be pretty new to mafia.
FWIW I can full claim, but I'm pretty much only doing it to sate pizza's curiosity. I don't care too much either way, there are pros and cons to both.
I'm glad you've explained night 1 pizza, as I was going to bring it up today. I'm going to confirm that targeted actions fails on pizza night 1, and also point out that based on his approach since joining the game paired with him fully declaring what happened n1 has him firmly in my town. I'm not sure I agree 100% with the scum circle but it's very close to where I'm at right now.
Obviously the shenanigans at the close of yesterday has greatly helped us and we have a very clear lynch today. Fortunately that gives me plenty of time to solve everything.
This isn't just because it's unlikely that Tubba will get traction today, I believe there are people that have moved ahead of him to be lynched.
I feel there are wolves in the replacements too, but perhaps not all of the team.
I have concerns about Grapefruit. It's really selfish, but I'm most baffled by his read on me. It really feels like an "I know he's town" post. It's quite a hefty town-read to give someone who's not under any pressure and a lot of it feels like a pocket attempt, but why pocket me? I don't know, I'm really wavering on how I feel about this. Initially I thought it was town, especially for the evaluation of me on Tubba. Since then I've thought it's more scummy as there's no real need to post that in depth of a read on me as town. If I'm reading someone as town I don't tend to investigate and explain any further than necessary, I need to spend my time gathering evidence against my scum-reads. I think overall I'm reading it as a scum-post for providing little actual content, and definitely nothing necessary right now. It also provides a call-back for Grape to say "I told you so" if/when I flip. There's just this thing in my head screaming at me that these are the type of things that I can completely mis-read and maybe Grape's just town with a strong read. After all, the read is not incorrect.
I'm sorry for that being a bit of a messy ramble and a selfish based post, but I want to get this thought out there. I'm just still struggling with it and wanting it out there before end of day.
I put forward the scenario where if he is town it is most harmful to town. If he is town and blocked by a wolf then the wolves already have that information and he is not harming town by sharing it.
With there being just over a day until deadline, I need to look in to the people on the chopping board some more so I'm not going to worry too much about not going through every word from pizza.
I stand by bringing attention towards Jenna today. I think it was a good place to go and the fact that she engages more than most others in the thread means that it should provide benefit for town regardless of her alignment.Your suspicion of Voxx has been something I've liked today. As I previously indicated (#360), I am not a fan of revealing that information (assuming it's true). I've been considering the options and instinctively it read more like a town who's posted and then sloppily tried to cover it instead of saying they acted rashly. Upon my first read I was influence by how I felt about Voxx day 1, of course. There was certainly an aura of suspicion around him because of that. The further posts by Voxx today are a poor showing too. I'm definitely at the point where I'm largely uneasy about him.You trusted me before? That's rather curious. In a game where trust is the most valuable commodity for my opponent, I do not give it easily.
Also @Tau a combination of RL and the developments here got in the way of the Killjoy project, but I haven't forgotten it.
I'm actually in the process of looking deeper into Killjoy at the moment. I'm not sure whether I'll get it up today or tomorrow as my schedule has gone a little haywire this weekend.
Junna's continued evasiveness (which was brought up on day one by me and others) and misinformation has pretty much hit breaking point for me. I'd be happy to lynch her today if Tubba doesn't get traction (or if he preforms a miracle).
Well if you're town and you weren't blocked by a wolf, then you've given them information about yourself and other town. It seems to me that town doesn't really benefit from this information at the moment. You say you've "thought about it fully", but I still feel it's short-sighted.
Sucks to lose Bear, now all my friends have been replaced. ;(
As previously requested by , here's an expansion of how I felt about Tubba. I've also added all content from him since then.
#47 - Irrelevant RVS, therefore it's ignored.
#95 - As I said before, this feels like a lame attempt at getting town-cred. It's such a meaningless post that tries to come across as if something of value is in it.
#99 - 100% fluff, which again attempted to come across as if there's value.
#104 - Unnecessary post. These try to promote the impression of activity when doing nothing at all.
#106 - I honestly don't know. Completely pointless though.
#107 - A weak attempt at a defence of #104.
#124 - No actual substance to the read.
#130 - An alarming amount of narration. Describing what has happened without actually giving any input on it is very scummy. The questions at Jenna are an attempt at interaction (however, see #140).
#131 - Pure narration. This is pointless fluff.
#136 - A very defensive post, that seems disproportionate to what has happened.
#140 - Having seen the answers the questions he asked, he has no opinion on it and asks for no clarification to clear up his lack of understanding.
#150 & #153 - Tau in #151 brings up a good point. If one is so conscious of waiting to vote and fully assessing the situation then why participate in RVS which completely contradicts this? I am a player that likes to think my vote matters. Therefore I am very careful about when I place it and why. If I had a strong scum-read which Tubba had I'd be voting on it instantly instead of deciding to "wait and see what else happened." (Also #140 is relevant to this)
The rest is after my post containing my initial read.
#160 - A complete lack of asking about the read, or trying to gain information of any sort. Just another fluff post.
#194 - Repetition, and it seems very early to be pushing a world on people.
#198 - He states towards me "your statement that you don't think I'm posting like mafia is somewhat troubling" when I've said his posts are a guide to how not to post as mafia. This means that he is very much posting like mafia. Tubba then goes on to say that I find him deceptively scummy, which is nothing close to what I have said. Also, I don't know about anyone else but I can read content as scummy without directly interacting.
#260 - Mostly a repetition post. A couple of names added to his scum-circle, but no actual substance.
#276 - If he's got not previous experience with Bear, why the RVS?
#279 - This feels like an empty question. It seems to me that there isn't actually anything of value that would come from it.
#292 - Where did my name go? If he's reading me in his "top three" as he previously mentioned, why am I no longer on the chopping block? This reads to me as him realising that he's not going to get any sort of traction on that particular mis-lynch so he's forgotten it. It was never actually a read.
#304 - More trying to push his world on others. Further pushing for others to provide content for him, as he is unable to do so alone.
#324, #326, #328, #337 - No content here. There's no strong attempt to push the lynch through too. This is his number one scum and she might not get lynched. Where's the passion?
I believe that Tubba Fett has provided a clear history of defensive and tunneling posts which have provided little, if any value.
Upon lining up all of his "content" together, I do not see how Tubba can be town.
Vote: Tubba Fett
In my experience a "reads-post" would be more indicative of scum. It gives more room for maneuverability and it's lazier. The post felt really good to me. When I read it I felt comfortable, like it's a natural post rather than a constructed one. As I've said earlier I'm an emotional player, so that's going to skew things which can be read multiple ways at times. Either way, I think the post is a good measuring stick showing Killjoy's thought process which can be used to compare future posts and interactions.