I am glad you brought this up. Yes I've changed my mind that I WOULD want it at common for Pauper. There are currently ZERO spells in pauper that "cannot be countered" and it would be a welcome addition. As for Modern its a nothingburger. A missed opportunity for Pauper. Double downshifts have occured. I wish this one did.
For Limited this would be pretty gross at common, I'd think.
As for Constructed, this card was a lot easier to play when the alternatives were things like Rhystic Lightning or Volcanic Hammer as opposed to Bolt (or even Lightning Strike). The extra 1 over Hammer gets you instant speed, uncounterable, and the kicker, which collectively are probably worth at least that much. Nowadays the cheap burn spells are a lot better, and if you value the ability to deal a bunch of uncounterable damage for a million mana you can play Banefire.
I could imagine playing it as a 1-of in some blue/red control deck, maybe.
Am I missing something about CalvinSchwa's deck? It wins on turn 3 unless I'm mistaken, but both ManyCookies and nerdyjoe seem to think it's slower. (Though obviously this doesn't make a difference for nerdyjoe anyway.)
1. Play Teferi's Isle.
2. Isle phases out. Play City, tap it to play Pili-Pala.
3. Isle phases in and untaps. Tap Isle and City to play Architect. Play Wolf Run. Attack with Pili-Pala. Before damage, tap Architect to itself and filter the mana through Pili-Pala to make U. Turn Pili-Pala blue, make a billion mana and activate Wolf Run to pump the Pili-Pala up.
Vorinclex slows it down by multiple turns, but I believe it beats all of the non-Vorinclex decks on the play.
The only issue I see with the deck is that as sweet as Teferi's Isle is, I'm pretty sure replacing it with Saprazzan Skerry would've been just better. You don't even need the City at that point because you can play the Architect on turn 2 off Skerry + Wolf Run and immediately tap it to itself to play Pili-Pala.
1) 3-3. Vorinclex slows the combo down by one two turns, which is enough. (City staying tapped forces Wolf Run to be tapped for mana on turn 3, which in turn means the Wolf Run isn't available to activate until turn 5. Alternatively, waiting for the City to untap still leaves the combo until turn 5 because of phasing.) Calvin's right, I lose on the draw.
2) 6-0. Either the Vorinclexes trade and Mycon eventually wins, or my Vorinclex runs over the spirit guides.
3) 6-0. Vorinclex outraces.
4) 0-6. Agree with ManyCookies.
5) 3-3. On the play, Vorinclex outraces. On the draw you never actually tap a land for mana after turn 1 so he doesn't slow you down and your three-turn clock beats mine. The bit about not having to tap lands isn't true, but nonetheless he doesn't slow you down enough for it to matter.
6) 0-6. Real happy this was the only Karakas deck.
The whole joke is you always cast BSZ after combat to get an EtB trigger. And if it triggered undying, you could alternate between 6 and 5 damage a turn. But without, you alternate between 5 damage (3 power attack, BSZ to kill and get a trigger) and 4 damage (4 power attack, BSZ for 1 afterwards).
Yeah, oops, I did notice the clock slowed down that way but kinda forgot that that might actually matter against a non-creature-based deck like Mogg's.
Out of curiosity, why is Affliction legal when The Rack is banned?
Shrieking Affliction has a greater set-up cost, in terms of the number of cards in an opponent's hand.
In non-land rule formats, where The Rack is also banned, Shrieking Affliction also has the drawback of a colored mana cost.
Thanks, that makes sense. It just took me by surprise to see it because in my head they're practically the same card.
Ah by the by, if you BSZ a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter on it it will NOT come back (see here). Were the Messenger matchups done with that in mind?
The only matchup it might affect is the mirror, I think, since otherwise there's no need to ever cast it for 3 or more. (You can kill Scoundrels by casting it once for 1 and once for 2, and nobody else even has a creature with that much toughness.)
Sorry for slowness on posting this, I got sick and didn't have the mental energy for it.
1) 3-3. On the play, Doomfall gets Wanderer and Cavalier outraces Bitterblossom. On the draw, Doomfall gets Cavalier from my hand and Bitterblossom easily outraces Wanderer.
2) 0-6. Affliction too stronk.
3) 0-6. I knew I couldn't beat BSZ when I submitted this but I didn't come up with anything I liked better.
4) 6-0. On the play, I win before you cast a spell. On the draw, Sorin comes down when you're at 4 life and can +2 to eat my Wanderer and save you from dying immediately to Cavalier. But then I can swing at Sorin to prevent him from -3ing and swing again the next turn to kill him, so I never get into Vengeance range.
5) 3-3. On the play the Vessel is irrelevant and the life total is low enough when Ob Nixilis comes down that Cavalier can just swing past the demon and win. On the draw, Vessel gets Cavalier and Wanderer doesn't kill nearly fast enough.
6) 0-6. See (3).
7) 6-0. Cavalier is immune to both removal spells and the zombies come far too slow to race.
8) 6-0. Play or draw, Cavalier outraces Ob Nixilis even with the Wanderer getting exiled.
10) 0-6. Affliction too stronk.
Out of curiosity, why is Affliction legal when The Rack is banned?
I haven't actually played any EDH since Rivals, but this is definitely going in Dralnu. I don't like Innocent Blood there because all too often I have exactly one creature in play, but this one is sweet. I'd consider playing it even without the ascend text, but that really pushes it over the edge, even in a deck like Dralnu that doesn't race to ten permanents incredibly fast.
I agree with this assessment. In Legacy it matters that it costs one mana when you're using it as mana denial, but for trying to stop some nasty combo I'd rather have the split second. And Disallow's flexibility is of course great.
I'm not fully awake yet so some of these are suspect. I am now confident in these but I guess someone else should look at the conflicting one.
1) 3-3. On the play there are couple scenarios depending on how Daze is used but none of them stop me from playing Witness or from playing Time Walk afterwards to start the combo. On the draw I never get to two mana.
2) 6-0. Play or draw, my opponent never gets to four mana and the Flickerwisp is irrelevant.
3) 0-6. Yeah, that's pretty unbeatable.
4) 3-3? I agree I win on the play, but I don't think I win on the draw. If I try to hold Witness back until I have five mana, K-Command eats my hand.
5) 3-3. On the play I can combo before Angrath comes down. On the draw I'm a turn too slow. I'd be able to get a draw if Angrath's +1 didn't have the life loss attached, but alas. I'd still lose to tokens because I can be forced to hold my Truths until postcombat.
7) 1-4. I can't beat Akroma or stop her from appearing, but on the play I can take infinite turns in her face. On the draw my Witness gets countered.
8) 1-4. I agree with WhammeWhamme's logic.
I also 4-1 Personman for whatever that's worth.
I'm happy enough with what I submitted but I do kind of feel like a dunce for not even considering the possibility of going mana denial.
Prior to manifest, Ixidron was the only way to turn a non-morph creature face down. If it didn't have morph, you just couldn't turn it face up. Then, years later, they made an entire mechanic around putting things without morph face down. In design, it worked like Ixidron. This was changed because it wasn't interesting enough when most decks don't have tons of morphs in them. Thus they added a way to turn any creature face up.
My point here is that Ixidron feels weird because it's the only card in all of Magic that can put things face down without there being a built-in way to turn them face up. Probably it was intentionally done that way to synergize with Ixidor, Reality Sculptor himself. But it breaks the "rule" that if something is face down, it can be turned face up. I suspect if Ixidron was designed today, the precedent from manifest would lead them to add a way to turn the things face up.
I think it's quite silly to use Backslide as precedent for Ixidron working the way it does. It was surely an intentional choice when designing Onslaught to avoid it being possible for a creature without morph to turn face down, for precisely that reason. I agree that if there were a whole bunch of cards that work like Ixidron it wouldn't feel weird (which is basically tautological) but there aren't, and so it does feel weird when placed next to manifest cards. That's all.
Ixidron is cool as hell, although weirdly inconsistent with manifest. It's a mono-blue quasi-wrath which is pretty nice. I've never played this card, but it's actually not bad...
Why is it inconsistent with manifest?
Manifested creatures can be turned face up for their mana cost, Ixidron'd creatures cannot by default by turned face up at all.
Ixidron is cool as hell, although weirdly inconsistent with manifest. It's a mono-blue quasi-wrath which is pretty nice. I've never played this card, but it's actually not bad...
I was trying to think of an upside to this card, but yeah. It stinks.
I guess the upside is if you control both the biggest and the second-biggest creature you can do the old "kill all but one creature" thing. Of course there are ways to do that without jumping through so many hoops so this card is indeed garbage in EDH. But I guess that's why it costs so much mana, since it's an uncommon and in Limited such a thing could actually be dangerous at a low enough cost.
Even in limited, this was hot garbage. It used to be one of the last picks of the pack. Maybe if black wasnt so hard into infect, it would have been better, but black decks almost never had the biggest dude. I never saw it played, an I drafted a *****load of Scars block.
Hell, even in my crap draft, its still not a high pick, and that's a cube full of bad cards,
Hell, I'd argue its worse than garbage like great wall and break open because at least they do what they do well, they just do something that's almost never worthwhile. This does something that matters but does it so poorly that it still deserves to be ran about as much as them.
Oh yeah, the actual card was garbage, I just meant if it were cheaper. Though honestly I still don't think it would have been great.
As for Constructed, this card was a lot easier to play when the alternatives were things like Rhystic Lightning or Volcanic Hammer as opposed to Bolt (or even Lightning Strike). The extra 1 over Hammer gets you instant speed, uncounterable, and the kicker, which collectively are probably worth at least that much. Nowadays the cheap burn spells are a lot better, and if you value the ability to deal a bunch of uncounterable damage for a million mana you can play Banefire.
I could imagine playing it as a 1-of in some blue/red control deck, maybe.
1. Play Teferi's Isle.
2. Isle phases out. Play City, tap it to play Pili-Pala.
3. Isle phases in and untaps. Tap Isle and City to play Architect. Play Wolf Run. Attack with Pili-Pala. Before damage, tap Architect to itself and filter the mana through Pili-Pala to make U. Turn Pili-Pala blue, make a billion mana and activate Wolf Run to pump the Pili-Pala up.
Vorinclex slows it down by multiple turns, but I believe it beats all of the non-Vorinclex decks on the play.
The only issue I see with the deck is that as sweet as Teferi's Isle is, I'm pretty sure replacing it with Saprazzan Skerry would've been just better. You don't even need the City at that point because you can play the Architect on turn 2 off Skerry + Wolf Run and immediately tap it to itself to play Pili-Pala.
onetwo turns, which is enough.(City staying tapped forces Wolf Run to be tapped for mana on turn 3, which in turn means the Wolf Run isn't available to activate until turn 5. Alternatively, waiting for the City to untap still leaves the combo until turn 5 because of phasing.)Calvin's right, I lose on the draw.2) 6-0. Either the Vorinclexes trade and Mycon eventually wins, or my Vorinclex runs over the spirit guides.
3) 6-0. Vorinclex outraces.
4) 0-6. Agree with ManyCookies.
5) 3-3. On the play, Vorinclex outraces.
On the draw you never actually tap a land for mana after turn 1 so he doesn't slow you down and your three-turn clock beats mine.The bit about not having to tap lands isn't true, but nonetheless he doesn't slow you down enough for it to matter.6) 0-6. Real happy this was the only Karakas deck.
7) 6-0. Vorinclex outraces.
Thanks, that makes sense. It just took me by surprise to see it because in my head they're practically the same card.
1) 3-3. On the play, Doomfall gets Wanderer and Cavalier outraces Bitterblossom. On the draw, Doomfall gets Cavalier from my hand and Bitterblossom easily outraces Wanderer.
2) 0-6. Affliction too stronk.
3) 0-6. I knew I couldn't beat BSZ when I submitted this but I didn't come up with anything I liked better.
4) 6-0. On the play, I win before you cast a spell. On the draw, Sorin comes down when you're at 4 life and can +2 to eat my Wanderer and save you from dying immediately to Cavalier. But then I can swing at Sorin to prevent him from -3ing and swing again the next turn to kill him, so I never get into Vengeance range.
5) 3-3. On the play the Vessel is irrelevant and the life total is low enough when Ob Nixilis comes down that Cavalier can just swing past the demon and win. On the draw, Vessel gets Cavalier and Wanderer doesn't kill nearly fast enough.
6) 0-6. See (3).
7) 6-0. Cavalier is immune to both removal spells and the zombies come far too slow to race.
8) 6-0. Play or draw, Cavalier outraces Ob Nixilis even with the Wanderer getting exiled.
10) 0-6. Affliction too stronk.
Out of curiosity, why is Affliction legal when The Rack is banned?
I'm not fully awake yet so some of these are suspect.I am now confident in these but I guess someone else should look at the conflicting one.1) 3-3. On the play there are couple scenarios depending on how Daze is used but none of them stop me from playing Witness or from playing Time Walk afterwards to start the combo. On the draw I never get to two mana.
2) 6-0. Play or draw, my opponent never gets to four mana and the Flickerwisp is irrelevant.
3) 0-6. Yeah, that's pretty unbeatable.
4) 3-3? I agree I win on the play, but I don't think I win on the draw. If I try to hold Witness back until I have five mana, K-Command eats my hand.
5) 3-3. On the play I can combo before Angrath comes down. On the draw I'm a turn too slow.
I'd be able to get a draw if Angrath's +1 didn't have the life loss attached, but alas.I'd still lose to tokens because I can be forced to hold my Truths until postcombat.7) 1-4. I can't beat Akroma or stop her from appearing, but on the play I can take infinite turns in her face. On the draw my Witness gets countered.
8) 1-4. I agree with WhammeWhamme's logic.
I also 4-1 Personman for whatever that's worth.
I'm happy enough with what I submitted but I do kind of feel like a dunce for not even considering the possibility of going mana denial.
Prior to manifest, Ixidron was the only way to turn a non-morph creature face down. If it didn't have morph, you just couldn't turn it face up. Then, years later, they made an entire mechanic around putting things without morph face down. In design, it worked like Ixidron. This was changed because it wasn't interesting enough when most decks don't have tons of morphs in them. Thus they added a way to turn any creature face up.
My point here is that Ixidron feels weird because it's the only card in all of Magic that can put things face down without there being a built-in way to turn them face up. Probably it was intentionally done that way to synergize with Ixidor, Reality Sculptor himself. But it breaks the "rule" that if something is face down, it can be turned face up. I suspect if Ixidron was designed today, the precedent from manifest would lead them to add a way to turn the things face up.
I think it's quite silly to use Backslide as precedent for Ixidron working the way it does. It was surely an intentional choice when designing Onslaught to avoid it being possible for a creature without morph to turn face down, for precisely that reason. I agree that if there were a whole bunch of cards that work like Ixidron it wouldn't feel weird (which is basically tautological) but there aren't, and so it does feel weird when placed next to manifest cards. That's all.