Yeah, I was testing with Proxys as soon as he was spoiled, it really gives a lot of room for expansion on what the deck can do early game, as well as WHAT it should do. I find myself using Scry 2 very often when I curve him on t2. Since I'm playing UW and not mono W I'm especially fond of him + Soulherder, it is actually insane the amount of pressure you can cause over a couple of blinking turns. As you mentioned, Prince + Flickerwisp also sets some amazing turns starting up by turn 3 where you can curve both on one another, blinking prince then EoT blinking Wisp to get a opponent's lands off the field for a turn, which is actually good against Tron. Same with soulherder, I like to gain CA with his blinking, but just passively disrupting our opponents permanents is stupid because of his EoT blinking.
I had a recent playtesting session with my friends, they are all very competitive players, here are the matchup split results (IMHO):
Sultai snow Midrange 50/50, Won 6 lost 6, this deck packs a big clock with delve creatures, backed by cheap removal, counters, and that stupid Assassin's trophy, meaning: If I Land Titan I win. But his assholish build packs remands, discards, Ice-fang Coatls, Dead of Winter, Tasigur, Flip jace, astrolabe, Fallen Shinobi... It's a weirdly effective strategy that I don't see many people playing with, have mad respect for his build, and even though I know his build inside out, the lines of play it offers are varied and he navigates weird situations very well
Martyr Proc: Won 70/30, This matchup is miserable to play because it takes too long and game 1 is quite hard. post-board it gets way easier.
Burn: 40/60, basically preboard I feel that It is a hand dependant matchup. If I have prince in my opener, I'm favored. If I Don't, I lose. But postboard the match is a cakewalk, just don't stumble too much
B/W Death And Taxes: This matchup is tricky, I feel that when playing blindly, it can be quite harsh to win, but since I KNEW my friend's deck, I could play accordingly and around Cat jesus and Friends, so no Matchup percentages here...
Jund: I feel this one is a 70/30 to us. They are very PW and Creature dependant, and when grinding I feel we have the upper hand. It is not easy, a early walker when not dealt with may dominate the game, but know your outs, dig for them and stall and once a single titan is out, they are fated to lose. The fact that their main source of Removal actually aids our deck is good too, Ass Trophy really does not hurt as much here as in the sultai matchup and as such, If you focus your resources on taking out: Lilliana, Scavenging Oooze and W&6, this is easily a win for titan-Emeria.
Well @D90Dennis14, I agree with you that Archaeomancer isn't ideal, but the actual lack of a better target for grinding Removals and Counters makes me test these ideas. IF the card was CMC 3 I would totally disagree with you, it would be perfect for the deck's strategy (even if less powerful than witness), but yeah, being 4 mana is hard, even for the Curve/Synergies and such. I hope they print a rare like this, 3 CMC, ETBs return instant or sorcery from the graveyard to hand, that's hardly even good for T2 lol, but I would play it
As for Blade Splicer, I've got a couple of copies, maybe I'll try them, but still, that's a very aggressive oriented card in a deck hoping to answer with creatures a very open field of threats. While she would be great against creature matchups overall, I think it is best to focus on early disruption and late-game aggression rather than the opposite, so the threats come from big creatures like Titans, Resto Angels and maybe Avacyns (who offers protection too). I'll try them anyways!! thanks for the feedback!!
SO, i'm a long time emeria player just recently returning to the archetype, I'm down a couple of playsets like Ranger-Captain himself. While I can see his potential I have NO WAY to buy my playset right now, so i've built a version without it, following traditional builds + Soulherder. So far i'm really impressed with Soulherder, it has that ability to take over the game and grow surprisingly fast over a couple of turns.
here is the list I'm testing right now (with Charming Princes already ordered waiting for the pre-release, bought really cheap). some odd Card Choices I'm testing and that you'll probably see:
1 Summary Dismissal (Sideboard): Bottom line, I hate tron and big mana. Exile ulamog and triggers, exile all valakut triggers, exile storm triggers. Bonus: opponents face as they ALWAYS read the card when resolving +1
2 Phantasmal Image (Mainboard) : Love playing with opponents cards, copying big relevant stuff than removing them afterward, it is GREAT to return with sun titan, chaining triggers, great on the mirror (but who plays this deck anyways ahahaha).
2 Tomik : the guys at my LGS hate tron just as much as me, so they pack TONS of land removal, so TOmik is a meta call.
I'm also considering running 2 Archeomancer as they can be recursive blink targets for grinding creature matchups, but that's just inspiration from soulherder list since they run Eternal Witness to loop spells, creatures and lands. Just an Idea tho.
Unfortunately then this is not the same deck anymore, there is no thread to Bant Soulherder or Bant Blink both in the Stablished Forums and Deck Creation Forums, so I get why you posted your brew here, but although bant emeria CAN be a real thing to be discussed here, removing the namesake cards that actually make up the deck's engine is not that helpful overall, as there are people who like the grindy/control-esque and value-oriented playstyle. Again, Bant Soulherder IS a real deck, it is AWESOME to play with and to brew around, I just don't feel this is the place to do it. Maybe Doing a Primer over Deck-Creation? reaching out to Gabriel Nassif for some insight since he plays the damn deck everyday on stream ahahahaha. If you want any help too I would love to give some Insight since I play Both UW emeria AND Bant Soulherder at my LGS. <3
I like The Haakon smallpox aproach actually. Smallpox and Vial are great buddies too. If we only had a Hand Disruption Knight
A disruptive loop with Smitten Swordmaster might be a On-tribe way to finish the game.
I can see the appeal of Blue and Little Tef, BUT I don't own any copies of him, and he's far too expensive right now for me to buy a playset. Additionally, on the matter of replacing the Looting effect, even though we did lose Speed and Consistency, I feel that from all the looting reliant decks that are now trying desperately to replace it, the Creativity combo is one of the least affected. Let me explain.
I can understand that looting was our go-to Draw-power, Selection, and CA generator, pitching lingering Souls when needed and sending Emrakul back to our deck for the combo. Fortunately, and different from strategies like Dredge, Phoenix, and Grishoalbrand, those upsides of looting aren't even the deck's central strategy or even dependent on its early use, making it that much easier to replace. For example, going for a Full-playset of Nahiri, the Harbinger. It helps with removal, it loots away stranded emrakuls in hand and also those L.Souls for value. Nahiri also grants an alternative wincon with her Ult and synergizes extremely well with Chandra, Acolyte of Flame, as I've mentioned on my last comment. I'm up for Boros creativity, with a black splash and with B.Moon maindeck (like old Mardu Pyro) as so many strategies right now have greedy manabases.
with 4 Chandras, 4 Nahiris, maybe even war of the Spark Saheeli as none of those actually get hurt by B.moon's land taxing.
Marc, you stick to the Jeskai, I'll experiment with the colors I have access to right now!!! hope you get some awesome results
Maindeck Haakon might be enough to stall against any black deck/control deck who would play Witch's Vengeance. I feel people often think of Knights as just another Merfolk/Humans deck. Right now IMHO Knights can be more, we have removal knight, Reanimator Knight, Gravedigger Flying Knight, Indestructible Lord Knight, 2 mana Lord Knight, Planeswalker Knight-token-Bitterblossom, Equipment synergic Knights... we have so much room for brewing. I'll surely post a list or 2 here soon.
I wasn't really worried about replacing it, with the format slowing down the selection and CA Looting gave got a bit less relevant overall, so I focused on reactive relevant cards like K.Command and Kaya's Guile, which did WONDERS on my first playtests against those midrange-control decks as well as the aggro matchups. I'm quite sure though that discard is getting less relevant with so much CA being around, When I lost, it was mostly due to the OVERWHELMING card advantage some decks could generate out of the blue, rendering my fair cards really useless in the late-game. Goblins and Ringleader, SFM tutoring of a topdeck, Dredge, control, Affinity with Mystic Forge, Jund and W&6... So I'm thinking it would be better to move Discard to the sideboard against combo only, and focus our Maindeck on our combo and consistency + Overall catch-all removal like dunno, Anguished Unmaking to get creatures as well as PW, enchantments and artifacts. I know this seems CMC heavy, but we have flexible card choices to curve into.
The PW route seems quite appealing also, testing the Nahiri list + Chandra felt really really good. Little Chandra Helps Nahiri Ult as well as giving token fodder for the Creativity ALONE, Nahiri's +1 gives the selection we lack + Removal + alternative win-condition, to curve Legion's Landing into Raise the Alarm into either of these PW is a powerful curve giving little room to our opp to breathe and many angles of attack.
So, I've recently reassembled this deck together and EVEN without Nahiri or little Chandra I cruised to a 4-1 finish at my LGS. I'll be farming for those walkers very soon, i'm really impressed. MarcWizard, START FOILING THOSE WALKER MY MAN, LET'S MAKE THIS DECK A THING AGAIN!!!!
Here's my take on the Whole SFM thing. Since unfair decks will likely slow down a WHOLE lot after looting and Gaaks banning, most tempo/creature/control decks will shift for targeted POINT removal again. It's good against SFM, against tribal and tempo too. From THIS standpoint I actually think Rattlechains IS more relevant now than ever, a creature once overshadowed by the format's overwhelming speed will now likely be a 2 for 1 in most cases. NOT only that, but one of the things I love having acess to in control/combo matchups is instant-speed cards, mr. chains allow you to play on whatever speed you may like. Sure you can play SFM, it will be good at times, and it will make your leftover creatures better, sure. Or you can fly over all the other decks with consistent pressure, disruption and protection. I would bet much higher in a tempo U/W or Esper build right now than I would a Bant SFM one.
1- sky lion: Is great at pressuring, is great at grinding too and works WONDERS with Vial. May not be a spirit but sure benefits from all the flying. Works GREAT with Mausoleum and L.Souls to sneak 9-10 points of flying damage VERY early, just try it, you will love it.
2- Hanged boi. Much like Lion and L.Souls it is a 2 for 1 in most matchups. It IS the creature matchup KILLER and stacks very well the +1/+1 bonus from our lords.
3- Image is a pet card of mine, My local meta is full of big mana and eldrazi, so vialing in a Phantasmal image to copy a BIG DUDE, only to detention sphere or path it later is AWESOME. It IS a combat trick with vial, since you can vial before blockers and trade. You can also more consistently Hexproof-lock people with Drogskol Captain
4- Lingering Souls. No one doubts the power of this card, in a grindy and slower format this was KNOWN as the bane of midrange, even helped spawn abzan to completely shadow JUND for a while as the KING of midrange. this card WITHOUT spirit synergy is BONKERS, imagine with a lord on the field, the damage and the board and damage output stacks REALLY fast, up to the point where Phoenix (with looting) had to leave risen back Phoenixes to block 3/3 or 4/4 tokens.
I still don't know why, but we really haven't seen a black splash be viable (or at least popular), so I will try to advocate it here because it is my favorite deck to play and right now it IS better than ever. I ran it to consistent 4-1 and 5-0 at my LGS (which is quite darn competitive) and I would love to have some feedback. I'm still working on a manabase and sideboard
So, I stumbled upon this thread while searching for modern decks with Pride of Clouds as a maindeck card. Until now I'm really impressed. this decks have a lot of similarities to UW spirits, but as many here have said already, it plays and functions VERY differently.
The other route, which is more similar to the one this thread's creator wrote on, a Grindy, value oriented midrange list. with extremely grindy cards, a draw engine and some lock pieces. Stormscape familiar is a REAL find, the fact that it stacks its effects are just insane. Battle Screech and lingering souls can be both cast and flashbacked in the same turn VERY easily, creating insane preassure out of NOWHERE. this against control is GAS, against DS is almost a guaranteed win (be on the watch for Battle Rage Though). A list like this could benefit GREATLY from the new Sephara, Sky's Blade. Explosive turns with loads of flyiers + the mana cost reduction from Stormscape Familia + the protection and pressure from the new legend... seems quite insane to me.
I'll be testing both approaches soon, and WILL be posting results and lists. I hope this thread in specific does not flop, as I really belive this deck has true potential. thanks for reading guys, I'll be back soon.
I had a recent playtesting session with my friends, they are all very competitive players, here are the matchup split results (IMHO):
Sultai snow Midrange 50/50, Won 6 lost 6, this deck packs a big clock with delve creatures, backed by cheap removal, counters, and that stupid Assassin's trophy, meaning: If I Land Titan I win. But his assholish build packs remands, discards, Ice-fang Coatls, Dead of Winter, Tasigur, Flip jace, astrolabe, Fallen Shinobi... It's a weirdly effective strategy that I don't see many people playing with, have mad respect for his build, and even though I know his build inside out, the lines of play it offers are varied and he navigates weird situations very well
Martyr Proc: Won 70/30, This matchup is miserable to play because it takes too long and game 1 is quite hard. post-board it gets way easier.
Burn: 40/60, basically preboard I feel that It is a hand dependant matchup. If I have prince in my opener, I'm favored. If I Don't, I lose. But postboard the match is a cakewalk, just don't stumble too much
B/W Death And Taxes: This matchup is tricky, I feel that when playing blindly, it can be quite harsh to win, but since I KNEW my friend's deck, I could play accordingly and around Cat jesus and Friends, so no Matchup percentages here...
Jund: I feel this one is a 70/30 to us. They are very PW and Creature dependant, and when grinding I feel we have the upper hand. It is not easy, a early walker when not dealt with may dominate the game, but know your outs, dig for them and stall and once a single titan is out, they are fated to lose. The fact that their main source of Removal actually aids our deck is good too, Ass Trophy really does not hurt as much here as in the sultai matchup and as such, If you focus your resources on taking out: Lilliana, Scavenging Oooze and W&6, this is easily a win for titan-Emeria.
As for Blade Splicer, I've got a couple of copies, maybe I'll try them, but still, that's a very aggressive oriented card in a deck hoping to answer with creatures a very open field of threats. While she would be great against creature matchups overall, I think it is best to focus on early disruption and late-game aggression rather than the opposite, so the threats come from big creatures like Titans, Resto Angels and maybe Avacyns (who offers protection too). I'll try them anyways!! thanks for the feedback!!
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2296967#paper
here is the list I'm testing right now (with Charming Princes already ordered waiting for the pre-release, bought really cheap). some odd Card Choices I'm testing and that you'll probably see:
1 Summary Dismissal (Sideboard): Bottom line, I hate tron and big mana. Exile ulamog and triggers, exile all valakut triggers, exile storm triggers. Bonus: opponents face as they ALWAYS read the card when resolving +1
2 Phantasmal Image (Mainboard) : Love playing with opponents cards, copying big relevant stuff than removing them afterward, it is GREAT to return with sun titan, chaining triggers, great on the mirror (but who plays this deck anyways ahahaha).
2 Tomik : the guys at my LGS hate tron just as much as me, so they pack TONS of land removal, so TOmik is a meta call.
I'm also considering running 2 Archeomancer as they can be recursive blink targets for grinding creature matchups, but that's just inspiration from soulherder list since they run Eternal Witness to loop spells, creatures and lands. Just an Idea tho.
A disruptive loop with Smitten Swordmaster might be a On-tribe way to finish the game.
I can understand that looting was our go-to Draw-power, Selection, and CA generator, pitching lingering Souls when needed and sending Emrakul back to our deck for the combo. Fortunately, and different from strategies like Dredge, Phoenix, and Grishoalbrand, those upsides of looting aren't even the deck's central strategy or even dependent on its early use, making it that much easier to replace. For example, going for a Full-playset of Nahiri, the Harbinger. It helps with removal, it loots away stranded emrakuls in hand and also those L.Souls for value. Nahiri also grants an alternative wincon with her Ult and synergizes extremely well with Chandra, Acolyte of Flame, as I've mentioned on my last comment. I'm up for Boros creativity, with a black splash and with B.Moon maindeck (like old Mardu Pyro) as so many strategies right now have greedy manabases.
with 4 Chandras, 4 Nahiris, maybe even war of the Spark Saheeli as none of those actually get hurt by B.moon's land taxing.
Marc, you stick to the Jeskai, I'll experiment with the colors I have access to right now!!! hope you get some awesome results
PS: Nice damn playmat bruh
My first Try: Mardu Vial Knights, it'll be fun.
The PW route seems quite appealing also, testing the Nahiri list + Chandra felt really really good. Little Chandra Helps Nahiri Ult as well as giving token fodder for the Creativity ALONE, Nahiri's +1 gives the selection we lack + Removal + alternative win-condition, to curve Legion's Landing into Raise the Alarm into either of these PW is a powerful curve giving little room to our opp to breathe and many angles of attack.
Odd card choices that I suggest at least giving a try: Pride of the Clouds with Lingering Souls, Hanged Executioner and Phantasmal Image
1- sky lion: Is great at pressuring, is great at grinding too and works WONDERS with Vial. May not be a spirit but sure benefits from all the flying. Works GREAT with Mausoleum and L.Souls to sneak 9-10 points of flying damage VERY early, just try it, you will love it.
2- Hanged boi. Much like Lion and L.Souls it is a 2 for 1 in most matchups. It IS the creature matchup KILLER and stacks very well the +1/+1 bonus from our lords.
3- Image is a pet card of mine, My local meta is full of big mana and eldrazi, so vialing in a Phantasmal image to copy a BIG DUDE, only to detention sphere or path it later is AWESOME. It IS a combat trick with vial, since you can vial before blockers and trade. You can also more consistently Hexproof-lock people with Drogskol Captain
4- Lingering Souls. No one doubts the power of this card, in a grindy and slower format this was KNOWN as the bane of midrange, even helped spawn abzan to completely shadow JUND for a while as the KING of midrange. this card WITHOUT spirit synergy is BONKERS, imagine with a lord on the field, the damage and the board and damage output stacks REALLY fast, up to the point where Phoenix (with looting) had to leave risen back Phoenixes to block 3/3 or 4/4 tokens.
I still don't know why, but we really haven't seen a black splash be viable (or at least popular), so I will try to advocate it here because it is my favorite deck to play and right now it IS better than ever. I ran it to consistent 4-1 and 5-0 at my LGS (which is quite darn competitive) and I would love to have some feedback. I'm still working on a manabase and sideboard
4x Drogskol Captain
4x Spell Queller
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Aether Vial
4x Pride of the Clouds
4x drogskol captain
4x Supreme Phantom
4x Lingering Souls
2x Selfless spirit
2x phantasmal Image
2x Rattlechains
2x Deputy of Detention
1x Hanged Executioner
2x Fatal Push
2x Silent Clearing
2x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Seachrome Coast
1x Moorland Haunt
3x Countersquall
2x Remorseful Cleric
2x Stony Silence
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Deputy of Detention
2x Damping Sphere
1x Fatal Push
1x Winds of Abandon
That being said, we have options on how we approach deckbuilding, we can go for the tempo route, Aether Vials, Pride of clouds, Lords and anthems couples with very aggressively costed and disruptive Flyers, down the Hussars and up the cheap Card Advantage cards like Chart a Course and Winged Words. Possible cards that COULD be in this list are: Smuggler's copter, Phantasmal Image, Selfless Spirit, Empyrian Eagle, Lingering Souls, Battle Screech, Kitesail Freebooter, Spell Queller.
The other route, which is more similar to the one this thread's creator wrote on, a Grindy, value oriented midrange list. with extremely grindy cards, a draw engine and some lock pieces. Stormscape familiar is a REAL find, the fact that it stacks its effects are just insane. Battle Screech and lingering souls can be both cast and flashbacked in the same turn VERY easily, creating insane preassure out of NOWHERE. this against control is GAS, against DS is almost a guaranteed win (be on the watch for Battle Rage Though). A list like this could benefit GREATLY from the new Sephara, Sky's Blade. Explosive turns with loads of flyiers + the mana cost reduction from Stormscape Familia + the protection and pressure from the new legend... seems quite insane to me.
I'll be testing both approaches soon, and WILL be posting results and lists. I hope this thread in specific does not flop, as I really belive this deck has true potential. thanks for reading guys, I'll be back soon.