I really like this list. Two thoughts I would offer, however. One, since this is a toolbox control list that leans hard into artifact removal and away from walkers, I would suggest dropping two Jaces and substituting for one Narset and one Ashiok; you'd be surprised at how many decks that combo basically hits the off switch on. While you're at it, maybe one Puzzle Box, just so that upon occasion you get to tell you're opponent that they don't get to play Magic. Two, this is from my days in the late 90s playing Draw-Go, you're always going to have a bad Burn matchup, but you will sometimes steal games; it's the price of playing Mono Blue.
Good luck, have fun, and inflict plenty of impotent rage.
Xerox decks work in Vintage and nowhere else because of the free Mana Rocks; not only are you not down on mana, you're actually accelerating it. It's entirely possible to play Mono Blue Control in Modern, but the list would more resemble the Draw-Go lists of the late 90s and early 00s.
One characteristic of the deck is that it must necessarily be low to the ground; my own list has 6 three drops and 5 four drops, with the rest of the spells being one and two drops.
The other major characteristic is that there are a ton of draw and card selection spells, roughly 1/3 of the non-land cards. They might also do something else, in fact the best ones do, but card advantage is the most important thing.
PRecisely because we have logic knot that they must have included counterspell. It makes no sense!!
I am sorry to crush your dreams, but Counterspell got officially disconfirmed in the current Weekly MTG stream. But as stated previously hoping for Counterspell was naive anyways.
With putting the real Counterspell into the first straight to modern set, they would have just killed a ton of designspace, as they would make all other 2CMC counters obsolete at an instant. Thereby limiting their options for future sets.
Not really. There's a lot you can do with UU that are vast upgrades over Counterspell itself. Counter target spell, draw a card. Counter target spell, exile all copies. Counter target spell, Orim's Chant. Counter target spell, Shadow of Doubt. Mana Drain.
R&D is just run by filthy casuals who regard the height of Magic as turning creatures sideways after drafting them. Constructed decks where instants and sorceries are king are the devil in their world, because being told no and going from 20 to 0 in a turn isn't "fair". But what else can you expect from mouth-breathing knuckle draggers?
Mana Drain is likely the single most broken instant ever to see print. No, Force of will is not close. The card was a mistake and should have never seen print. Also an utter failure to the colour pie.
You have no clue what you're talking about, honestly. The color pie didn't exist during the printing of Alliances as it does today, it was perfectly in color (blue got everything, remember). Also, with mana burn, generating a bunch of extra mana that control decks likely couldn't spend was a serious drawback. Doing away with mana burn made it more powerful, but without the full blue toolbox that eternal formats enjoy, there's a real cap on just how powerful it can be in Modern.
You can't evaluate cards in a vacuum, you have to evaluate them based on how they'd slot into existing decks and what they'd enable. Force and Daze would be quickly banned, just like everything else that makes Storm too strong. Plus, they'd allow UR Phoenix to go all in while still having protection; the strongest deck in Modern does not need to get better.
Mana Drain has been banned in Legacy for a long time and doesn't really see play in Vintage because fast mana is so prevalent. I'm actually of the opinion that Mana Drain would be less busted in Modern than Force or Daze. The latter two would make both UR Phoenix and Storm much better, which is the opposite of what this format needs. There are only four currently extant decks that I can think of that would possibly use Mana Drain.
U Tron: Doesn't really need more fast mana and I'm not sure the deck wants to give up either Remand or Condescend.
UW Control: Would really, really benefit from Mana Drain and Counterspell (which I regard as an auto-include in the set). Tapping out on Turn 3 for Jace or getting a free Teferi is a very powerful play.
Whir Prison and Lantern Control: Mana Drain allows the lock to happen much faster.
Would Mana Drain be oppressive? Yes, it'd jackboot thug the fast creature decks (Dredge, Hollow One, Vengevine, and Phoenix) straight to the gulag, which is what Modern desperately needs. The non-U versions of Tron probably also go to Siberia, which I have no real opinion on. The more midrange, toolbox creature decks like Humans and Spirits already have the tools to deal with a control heavy meta.
1) Flip the top card and it's a Path of Discovery.
1a) Diviner gets +1/+1
1b) Walker #1 triggers twice, getting +2/+2 and I gain 6 life.
1c) Walker #2 does the same.
1d) Ascendancy gets 10 tokens (5x2 because of Panharmonicon)
2) Repeat.
3) I chump with three Saproling tokens to stay alive.
4) I win the game on my next upkeep?
I used to be against the idea of Pernicious Deed being Modern legal despite loving the card because of the fact that it might keep fast aggro down. Really though, isn't midrange supposed to chew up aggro? Deed would be like a slightly more expensive Wrath, with the upsides of versatility and instant-speed activation. It's hard to imagine decks like Humans, Spirits, or Phoenix falling off due to GBx getting Deed. It can hit manlands, but misses planeswalkers, so all sorts of interesting and skill-testing lines could come about by having it.
GB has a lot of turns 1 and 2 disruption, so I don't think that Deed is as mild as you're assuming. That said, I don't think a format being dominated by aggro is any better than a format dominated by combo. So, yes, please print deed.
I don't think any of these cards are too powerful for Modern at all. They absolutely would slow down the format by at least two turns, but Modern revolving around mid-range is a good thing, IMO.
Holy hell, this is spicy. I really like Peer Through Depths in Draw-Go decks because it allows you to dig for the specific answer you need, rather than hoping you goldfish it.
How many planeswalkers can they realistically print in one set? Are we even expecting them to print more than 3 or 4?
A lot. There are 13 walkers who are current or former members, or allied to, the Gatewatch. It actually wouldn't be all that unrealistic for WotC to guarantee a Walker in every pack.
The storyline and set will revolve around the fight between the Gatewatch and Nicol Bolas. The fight turns into an all-out planeswalker war. Dozens of powerful planeswalkers, from many disparate realities, unite against the elder dragon, who has claimed dominion over Ravnica and is perilously close to completing the spell that will grant him godhood. As they fight alongside the Gatewatch — led by Chandra Nalaar, Jace Beleren, and Gideon Jura — against Bolas and his relentless army of Eternals, nothing less than the fate of the multiverse is at stake.[10] Little do the Gatewatch suspect that Bolas has not only accounted for their interference, but he is practically relying on it.[11]
I think that basically confirms that this is a Planeswalkers Matter set. I hope we don't get the lame, useless Planeswalker Deck walkers, but pushed walkers that really emphasize how much more powerful Planeswalkers are than regular mages. Naturally there'd need to be 'Walker hosers and plenty of them, but I don't see that as a problem.
I decided it was okay to ‘up’ this thread since we are not in middle of any spoiler season right now.
If you have ever lost fairh in humanity, please read on.
In this very thread, Fyrwulf and I had a bet. A bet that I ended up winning. The price was a very expensive card. I told people about my bet with Fyrwulf and everyone assumed the guy would not live up to his promise but Fyrwulf is the man (or woman)
Yes Ladies and gentlemen. Today I received a foil Modern Masters Pact of Negation in the mail shipped from another continent free of charge. He even paid the shipping price.
Sorry for upping an old thread.
Definitely a man, lol. Shipping wasn't a huge deal, I've paid more for shipping CONUS. If it had been the $50 I was fearing, I still woul have paid it, I assumed that cost when I made the bet. Anyway, I'm glad it got to you.
The problem with the Pike is that there are cards that do the same thing for cheaper. You have Myth Realized for W, which becomes a creature until end of turn with the Pike effect for another W. You also have Enigma Drake for 1RU which has the Pike effect on the power side of things.
Nykthos is, in my opinion, begging to be put into a Relentless Rats deck alongside Thrumming Stone. There's probably better ways to build it than my list, however
Good luck, have fun, and inflict plenty of impotent rage.
One characteristic of the deck is that it must necessarily be low to the ground; my own list has 6 three drops and 5 four drops, with the rest of the spells being one and two drops.
The other major characteristic is that there are a ton of draw and card selection spells, roughly 1/3 of the non-land cards. They might also do something else, in fact the best ones do, but card advantage is the most important thing.
Not really. There's a lot you can do with UU that are vast upgrades over Counterspell itself. Counter target spell, draw a card. Counter target spell, exile all copies. Counter target spell, Orim's Chant. Counter target spell, Shadow of Doubt. Mana Drain.
R&D is just run by filthy casuals who regard the height of Magic as turning creatures sideways after drafting them. Constructed decks where instants and sorceries are king are the devil in their world, because being told no and going from 20 to 0 in a turn isn't "fair". But what else can you expect from mouth-breathing knuckle draggers?
You have no clue what you're talking about, honestly. The color pie didn't exist during the printing of Alliances as it does today, it was perfectly in color (blue got everything, remember). Also, with mana burn, generating a bunch of extra mana that control decks likely couldn't spend was a serious drawback. Doing away with mana burn made it more powerful, but without the full blue toolbox that eternal formats enjoy, there's a real cap on just how powerful it can be in Modern.
You can't evaluate cards in a vacuum, you have to evaluate them based on how they'd slot into existing decks and what they'd enable. Force and Daze would be quickly banned, just like everything else that makes Storm too strong. Plus, they'd allow UR Phoenix to go all in while still having protection; the strongest deck in Modern does not need to get better.
Mana Drain has been banned in Legacy for a long time and doesn't really see play in Vintage because fast mana is so prevalent. I'm actually of the opinion that Mana Drain would be less busted in Modern than Force or Daze. The latter two would make both UR Phoenix and Storm much better, which is the opposite of what this format needs. There are only four currently extant decks that I can think of that would possibly use Mana Drain.
U Tron: Doesn't really need more fast mana and I'm not sure the deck wants to give up either Remand or Condescend.
UW Control: Would really, really benefit from Mana Drain and Counterspell (which I regard as an auto-include in the set). Tapping out on Turn 3 for Jace or getting a free Teferi is a very powerful play.
Whir Prison and Lantern Control: Mana Drain allows the lock to happen much faster.
Would Mana Drain be oppressive? Yes, it'd jackboot thug the fast creature decks (Dredge, Hollow One, Vengevine, and Phoenix) straight to the gulag, which is what Modern desperately needs. The non-U versions of Tron probably also go to Siberia, which I have no real opinion on. The more midrange, toolbox creature decks like Humans and Spirits already have the tools to deal with a control heavy meta.
1) Flip the top card and it's a Path of Discovery.
1a) Diviner gets +1/+1
1b) Walker #1 triggers twice, getting +2/+2 and I gain 6 life.
1c) Walker #2 does the same.
1d) Ascendancy gets 10 tokens (5x2 because of Panharmonicon)
2) Repeat.
3) I chump with three Saproling tokens to stay alive.
4) I win the game on my next upkeep?
GB has a lot of turns 1 and 2 disruption, so I don't think that Deed is as mild as you're assuming. That said, I don't think a format being dominated by aggro is any better than a format dominated by combo. So, yes, please print deed.
I don't think any of these cards are too powerful for Modern at all. They absolutely would slow down the format by at least two turns, but Modern revolving around mid-range is a good thing, IMO.
A lot. There are 13 walkers who are current or former members, or allied to, the Gatewatch. It actually wouldn't be all that unrealistic for WotC to guarantee a Walker in every pack.
Storyline
Main article: Ravnica (2019 novel)
The storyline and set will revolve around the fight between the Gatewatch and Nicol Bolas. The fight turns into an all-out planeswalker war. Dozens of powerful planeswalkers, from many disparate realities, unite against the elder dragon, who has claimed dominion over Ravnica and is perilously close to completing the spell that will grant him godhood. As they fight alongside the Gatewatch — led by Chandra Nalaar, Jace Beleren, and Gideon Jura — against Bolas and his relentless army of Eternals, nothing less than the fate of the multiverse is at stake.[10] Little do the Gatewatch suspect that Bolas has not only accounted for their interference, but he is practically relying on it.[11]
I think that basically confirms that this is a Planeswalkers Matter set. I hope we don't get the lame, useless Planeswalker Deck walkers, but pushed walkers that really emphasize how much more powerful Planeswalkers are than regular mages. Naturally there'd need to be 'Walker hosers and plenty of them, but I don't see that as a problem.
Definitely a man, lol. Shipping wasn't a huge deal, I've paid more for shipping CONUS. If it had been the $50 I was fearing, I still woul have paid it, I assumed that cost when I made the bet. Anyway, I'm glad it got to you.
Nykthos is, in my opinion, begging to be put into a Relentless Rats deck alongside Thrumming Stone. There's probably better ways to build it than my list, however