Hello! I've been working on building into G/B/x over the last few months and have made some good progress, but I wanted to check with the forum to see how you guys would prioritize picking up the missing pieces in trades/buying over my next few pay periods. Unfortunately it ends up being the expensive items... ha!
I still need the following:
1x Tarmogoyf (have 3)
2-3x LOTV (have 1)
2x Verdant Catacombs (have 2)
My gut is telling me that getting 1-2x more LOTVs is probably the way to go. I can tweak the manabase a bit to cover for Catacombs (losing out on some Win %) and sub-in extra threats (Scooze, Trackers, etc.) to sub for the last Goyf. Does this sound like a reasonable approach?
I may test a small number of Flame of the Keld in my list. We get to hell-bent quickly anyway, plus zerging with a bunch of elementals +2 dmg each seems fun.
Will probably be too slow for many match ups but still could be a way to speed up the clock.
I've been somewhat intrigued by the BR prowess lists on MTGO lately. Takes a more aggressive slant with swiftspear and kiln fiend while keeping the core disruptive package. I'm still not sure if it's really a thing or just working bc it's caught folks off guard.
I don't like ditching white though. Loosing kambal, souls, and wear/tear seems risky.
I'm considering moving Blood Moon and LoTV (list as it currently stands below) to SB in favor of adding a bit more punch to the deck G1. In practice, I keep encountering opening hands clogged with 3 CMC spells (like these) that I have to mulligan to have more early game plays.Possibly another option is to drop KCommand down from 3x to 2x, move LoTV, and keep Blood Moon to maintain some % of free wins off of that.
What do you guys think? Not sure what I'd put in their place - perhaps a 3rd Brutality and/or Lightning Helixes for more reach?
Best piece of advice I've been given for Infect is to use removal on your turn and not theirs, especially Bolt. Failed attempts at removal on their turn plays right into Blossoming Defense or another pump spell, thereby beefing up their creature for combat and killing us faster. Otherwise, use your discard wisely and I've not had too many issues with that match up.
Game 1 he was able to get off multiple discard spells + surgicals to remove my lootings, revelers, and k commands. It was a bit of an unreal draw, despite my disruptions T1-2. Scooped.
Game 2 I boarded in EE, Rakdos Charm, Surgical, and Wear/Tear. Removed creature removal except for Dreadbore in case he decided to get cute with Sai, Padeem, or Tezzy. Was able to keep the board clear and picked off his key artifacts early with discard.
Game 3 Boarded in EE in place of remaining removal. Mulled down to 6 to make sure I had discard. He was able to get an early Ensnaring Bridge down with Welding Jars. Popped EE for 0 on his end step, then destroyed Bridge next turn followed by Surgical. He scooped at that point.
Round 2: 0-2 vs. Mono-Blue Artifact Prison
Game 1 he dumped most of his hand Turn 1 with 1x Land, 2x Opals, 2x Jars, and Chalice on 1. Bridge on turn 2. Landed a 2nd bridge turn 3, while I drew lands. T3 dropped Chalice on 3. Scooped.
Game 2 I sideboarded similar to Lantern, but mulled again down to 5 due to zero land hands. Despite an initial T1 discard, drew lands T2-4 and was unable to do anything meaningful before his lock went into effect.
Round 3: 2-1 vs. R/W Burn
Game 1: Quickly lost. Did not draw any Brutalities and he was able to easily resolve his 7x spells.
Game 2: Boarded in 1x Brutality + 2x Kambal. Boarded out Thoughtseize. Mulled down to 6 to get a Brutality in my opener. T1 discard to pluck a Bolt, T2 Brutality on all 3 modes (discard 1x souls + 1x land) to kill Guide + pluck a Boros Charm. Was able to quickly get him to top deck mode and dropped Kambal. We were at a stalemate for 3 turns with Kambal + his 2x Eidolons. He got greedy and bolted Kambal (took 6 DMG + I gained 2x). I top-decked Brutality and dealt the remaining lethal.
Game 3: Played similar to Game 2, except I was able to kill the Eidolons earlier with Brutality. Stuck a Kambal which slowed him down, plus a draw step K Command discard to dunk his top-deck Lava Spike.
Round 4: 2-0 vs. R/W Burn
Game 1: I was on the play and hit him with a basic + thoughtseize before I knew it was burn, which had me worried. Top decked Brutality on T2, which helped me pluck his Bolts while tapped out + life gain.
Game 2: Same as before, boarded in 1x Brutality + 2x Kambal. Kept an opener with 1x Blood Moon, 1x Plains, 1x Swamp, 1x Mountain, 1x Kambal, 1x Inquisition, and 1x Bolt. T1 bolted Guide w/ trigger for another land, T2 Inquisition to find out his hand was all RW spells, T3 Blood Moon, T4 Kambal. He eventually top-deck bolted Kambal a few turns later but it was too late to make a meaningful impact.
This is probably old hat to the more seasoned Mardu pilots here, but the big takeaway for me here was to not be afraid to aggressively mulligan Games 2-3 if I didn't have my specific answers. I didn't do that for my 1x loss, whereas I did it in both Burn matches and having that ideal hand disruption + Life Gain was imperative to seeing those wins.
A lesser takeaway was that I did not encounter any issues with my budget landbase (Dragonskull instead of Blackcleave). There were a few occasions where DSS was my top deck land for #4 and ended up being more helpful in the moment. On the occasions I've had DSS as my 1x land in my opener, I've found that I most likely ought to have mulligan anyway to sculpt a more conservative hand.
I doubt Sorins would do much if anything. If you have enough tokens on the board for Sorin to matter, it's likely that you are already winning.
I also think Sorin's going to be too slow to help us stabilize in the MUs we need it to do so in. If we're dropping it T4, we'd probably only have 1-2 bodies on the board when it hits. For example, if that MU is Burn then we're probably in Bolt lethal range since having those bodies on board from T2 and T3 means we likely did not play a Collective Brutality.
Dropping it later in other MUs, say with Reveler, feels a bit win-more to me.
Out of curiosity, has anyone given any thought to/tested Timely Reinforcements as a sideboard card?
My initial kneejerk reaction is that it might be a bit too niche (really seems most helpful for us with Burn MU) and too expensive, but thought I'd throw it out there. Was talking to my friend who pilots UWx about it and he was jazzed about it.
Unrelated, I also tested 1x Hazoret in the MB in a recent LGS tournament since I've seen it pop up in some lists recently. My personal experience is that, while she's an awesome threat to board in, she's a bit too clunky to be MB material and we'd need to shave down on the 3 drops to make it more impactful (which I don't think we want to do). I may test some number of Rabblemasters MB this next go around, as others here have suggested, since that is a card that consistently overperforms for me when boarded in.
Ponza loses a lot to itself as it as plenty of bad top decks and nothing to set up them so take that to your advantage.
This. 1 million times, this.
For the Ponza player, BBE cascading into Birds or Arbor Elf is the most deflating experience and happens a lot more often than you would think. For those of us on the other end of the table, those usually represent a chump blocker and not much more.
One plug for K Command though is that they usually will get hellbent quickly. That can make a K Command discard on their draw step very impactful, as most of their game plan is sorcery speed (Rains, Inferno Titan, BBE, etc.)
@CrimsonPheonix7: thank you for the response. Can I ask what you side out against mardu as a Ponza pilot? I know my opponent sided in Trinisphere. Games 2 and 3 I didn’t see much land destruction and I know he sided in baloth.
From the Ponza perspective playing against Mardu, I would board out my Blood Moons since that piece of the Prison strategy is less useful against us (3-4x depending on the list, most run 4). You can expect them to keep in 7-8 dedicated land destro spells and that's the main thing they're going to try to slow you down with. What they'll board in is Trinisphere (1-2x in most b/c it hoses low curve decks), and some form of GY hate (Relic is what I used), and possibly Baloth if they run it. They might also board in Thrun, the Last Troll since its resilient to removal.
There may be some other swaps they make, but its hard to say b/c there is A LOT of variance in the Ponza lists outside the core cards (core = 10x ramp/dorks, 7-8 land hate, 3-4 Moons, the rest is meta dependent). It's not a bad match-up for Pyro, IMO, we just have to kill their dorks and use discard to keep them from locking us out. Hope this helps!
How would you board against Ponza? I brought in 2 wear/tear but what else is useful?
I would bring in any extra CBrutality you have along with the Wear/Tears. You want to pluck away their mana dorks, land destro, and ramp so they cannot drop their haymakers (Tracker, inferno titan, etc.). Speaking from experience piloting ponza, it is pretty easily disrupted.
I'd also possibly bring in Hazoret as they have no way to deal with it.
Also, be careful with nontargeted discard as many lists run obstinate baloth
I'm a bit torn about EE right now and would love some feedback from the group. We have a pretty broad meta at my LGS, with ~40-60 people per event and a healthy distribution of decks. Some Humans, some UWx Control, multiple Grixis Shadow, some Combo (Scapeshift/KCI mostly) and a smattering of small creature decks (DnT, Goblins, Merfolk, Zoo, etc.). On paper, I figure the small creature decks shouldn't be a problem but in practice it's been quite contrary.
Over the last two months, I've been somewhat underwhelmed by 2x EE and am thinking of swapping it for 2x Anger of the Gods. There have been a few times that EE has been a dud just because my opponent has a strong board state on a curve. I end up dying shortly after setting off EE or before I can even get it off, whereas Anger would deal with the issue in its totality.
The clear downside is that I trade off versatility. Below is my board as it currently stands:
I was thinking of aven mindcensor as possibly a 2 off in the board. Another thought was magus of the moon for redundancy on a stick as I only run 2 moon main. Here's my sideboard as it currently stands:
The Extirpate was previously Lili TLH and Avens were Kambals. Both hadn't been used for the last few weeks. The advantage of both Aven and Magus is they can be bought back by KCommand and Moon cannot.
Went 2-2 at my LGS this past FNM. A summary below:
M1: 2-1 vs. Grixis Shadow. Pretty standard match up. They had a nut hand g2 but was able to grind effectively otherwise.
M2 0-2 vs. Valakut. G1 was a blow out and I mulled down to 5. G2 i was able to get a solid lead with discard but no moon. Top decked scapeshift and won on the spot... Not much to be done.
M3: 0-2 vs. Humans. Good opening hands both games but lost gas. G2 a top decked militia bugler ended up being a big tempo pivot.
M4: 2-0 vs. Grixis Delver. Both matches were all out grind wars but I think we are better equipped. G2 was decided when I rakdos charmed to exile GY in response to a snapcaster cast.
I've noticed a lot more valakut decks popping up and am wracking my brain for how to improve this match up. A recent idea i had was to board in aven mindcensor. It can be really useful in a variety of settings based on previous experience piloting D&T and caps their land drop at 5 (assuming all 5 are mountains/valakut). What do you guys think?
With Moon, I've also had alot of games where I sandbag it to get them to over commit, tap out, or get greedy with their mana base by only fetching duals. It becomes a pseudo timewalk if they have to spend their mainphase to deal with it, and even better if it sticks and becomes a prison.
I still need the following:
1x Tarmogoyf (have 3)
2-3x LOTV (have 1)
2x Verdant Catacombs (have 2)
My gut is telling me that getting 1-2x more LOTVs is probably the way to go. I can tweak the manabase a bit to cover for Catacombs (losing out on some Win %) and sub-in extra threats (Scooze, Trackers, etc.) to sub for the last Goyf. Does this sound like a reasonable approach?
Will probably be too slow for many match ups but still could be a way to speed up the clock.
I don't like ditching white though. Loosing kambal, souls, and wear/tear seems risky.
What do you guys think? Not sure what I'd put in their place - perhaps a 3rd Brutality and/or Lightning Helixes for more reach?
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
Instants/Sorceries (29)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
1 Terminate
4 Faithless Looting
2 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
2 Blood Moon
1 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (20)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Collective Brutality
2 Molten Rain
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear / Tear
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
Instants/Sorceries (29)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Terminate
4 Faithless Looting
2 Fatal Push
1 Manamorphose
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
2 Blood Moon
1 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (20)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Collective Brutality
2 Molten Rain
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear/Tear
Round 1: 2-1 vs. Lantern Control
- Game 1 he was able to get off multiple discard spells + surgicals to remove my lootings, revelers, and k commands. It was a bit of an unreal draw, despite my disruptions T1-2. Scooped.
- Game 2 I boarded in EE, Rakdos Charm, Surgical, and Wear/Tear. Removed creature removal except for Dreadbore in case he decided to get cute with Sai, Padeem, or Tezzy. Was able to keep the board clear and picked off his key artifacts early with discard.
- Game 3 Boarded in EE in place of remaining removal. Mulled down to 6 to make sure I had discard. He was able to get an early Ensnaring Bridge down with Welding Jars. Popped EE for 0 on his end step, then destroyed Bridge next turn followed by Surgical. He scooped at that point.
Round 2: 0-2 vs. Mono-Blue Artifact PrisonRound 3: 2-1 vs. R/W Burn
- Game 1: Quickly lost. Did not draw any Brutalities and he was able to easily resolve his 7x spells.
- Game 2: Boarded in 1x Brutality + 2x Kambal. Boarded out Thoughtseize. Mulled down to 6 to get a Brutality in my opener. T1 discard to pluck a Bolt, T2 Brutality on all 3 modes (discard 1x souls + 1x land) to kill Guide + pluck a Boros Charm. Was able to quickly get him to top deck mode and dropped Kambal. We were at a stalemate for 3 turns with Kambal + his 2x Eidolons. He got greedy and bolted Kambal (took 6 DMG + I gained 2x). I top-decked Brutality and dealt the remaining lethal.
- Game 3: Played similar to Game 2, except I was able to kill the Eidolons earlier with Brutality. Stuck a Kambal which slowed him down, plus a draw step K Command discard to dunk his top-deck Lava Spike.
Round 4: 2-0 vs. R/W BurnThis is probably old hat to the more seasoned Mardu pilots here, but the big takeaway for me here was to not be afraid to aggressively mulligan Games 2-3 if I didn't have my specific answers. I didn't do that for my 1x loss, whereas I did it in both Burn matches and having that ideal hand disruption + Life Gain was imperative to seeing those wins.
A lesser takeaway was that I did not encounter any issues with my budget landbase (Dragonskull instead of Blackcleave). There were a few occasions where DSS was my top deck land for #4 and ended up being more helpful in the moment. On the occasions I've had DSS as my 1x land in my opener, I've found that I most likely ought to have mulligan anyway to sculpt a more conservative hand.
I also think Sorin's going to be too slow to help us stabilize in the MUs we need it to do so in. If we're dropping it T4, we'd probably only have 1-2 bodies on the board when it hits. For example, if that MU is Burn then we're probably in Bolt lethal range since having those bodies on board from T2 and T3 means we likely did not play a Collective Brutality.
Dropping it later in other MUs, say with Reveler, feels a bit win-more to me.
My initial kneejerk reaction is that it might be a bit too niche (really seems most helpful for us with Burn MU) and too expensive, but thought I'd throw it out there. Was talking to my friend who pilots UWx about it and he was jazzed about it.
Unrelated, I also tested 1x Hazoret in the MB in a recent LGS tournament since I've seen it pop up in some lists recently. My personal experience is that, while she's an awesome threat to board in, she's a bit too clunky to be MB material and we'd need to shave down on the 3 drops to make it more impactful (which I don't think we want to do). I may test some number of Rabblemasters MB this next go around, as others here have suggested, since that is a card that consistently overperforms for me when boarded in.
This. 1 million times, this.
For the Ponza player, BBE cascading into Birds or Arbor Elf is the most deflating experience and happens a lot more often than you would think. For those of us on the other end of the table, those usually represent a chump blocker and not much more.
One plug for K Command though is that they usually will get hellbent quickly. That can make a K Command discard on their draw step very impactful, as most of their game plan is sorcery speed (Rains, Inferno Titan, BBE, etc.)
From the Ponza perspective playing against Mardu, I would board out my Blood Moons since that piece of the Prison strategy is less useful against us (3-4x depending on the list, most run 4). You can expect them to keep in 7-8 dedicated land destro spells and that's the main thing they're going to try to slow you down with. What they'll board in is Trinisphere (1-2x in most b/c it hoses low curve decks), and some form of GY hate (Relic is what I used), and possibly Baloth if they run it. They might also board in Thrun, the Last Troll since its resilient to removal.
There may be some other swaps they make, but its hard to say b/c there is A LOT of variance in the Ponza lists outside the core cards (core = 10x ramp/dorks, 7-8 land hate, 3-4 Moons, the rest is meta dependent). It's not a bad match-up for Pyro, IMO, we just have to kill their dorks and use discard to keep them from locking us out. Hope this helps!
I would bring in any extra CBrutality you have along with the Wear/Tears. You want to pluck away their mana dorks, land destro, and ramp so they cannot drop their haymakers (Tracker, inferno titan, etc.). Speaking from experience piloting ponza, it is pretty easily disrupted.
I'd also possibly bring in Hazoret as they have no way to deal with it.
Also, be careful with nontargeted discard as many lists run obstinate baloth
Over the last two months, I've been somewhat underwhelmed by 2x EE and am thinking of swapping it for 2x Anger of the Gods. There have been a few times that EE has been a dud just because my opponent has a strong board state on a curve. I end up dying shortly after setting off EE or before I can even get it off, whereas Anger would deal with the issue in its totality.
The clear downside is that I trade off versatility. Below is my board as it currently stands:
2x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Blood Moon
2x Molten Rain
2x Wear//Tear
2x Engineered Explosives (Considering shifting to 1 EE, 1 AotG or 2x AoTG)
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Darkblast
1x Collective Brutality
2 Nihil spellbomb
1 Extirpate (don't have surgicals)
3 molten rain
1 hazoret the fervent
1 rakdos charm
2 engineered explosives
2 wear // tear
1 collective brutality
2 aven mindcensor
The Extirpate was previously Lili TLH and Avens were Kambals. Both hadn't been used for the last few weeks. The advantage of both Aven and Magus is they can be bought back by KCommand and Moon cannot.
- M1: 2-1 vs. Grixis Shadow. Pretty standard match up. They had a nut hand g2 but was able to grind effectively otherwise.
- M2 0-2 vs. Valakut. G1 was a blow out and I mulled down to 5. G2 i was able to get a solid lead with discard but no moon. Top decked scapeshift and won on the spot... Not much to be done.
- M3: 0-2 vs. Humans. Good opening hands both games but lost gas. G2 a top decked militia bugler ended up being a big tempo pivot.
- M4: 2-0 vs. Grixis Delver. Both matches were all out grind wars but I think we are better equipped. G2 was decided when I rakdos charmed to exile GY in response to a snapcaster cast.
I've noticed a lot more valakut decks popping up and am wracking my brain for how to improve this match up. A recent idea i had was to board in aven mindcensor. It can be really useful in a variety of settings based on previous experience piloting D&T and caps their land drop at 5 (assuming all 5 are mountains/valakut). What do you guys think?