The issue with doing PW cards for Urza, Serra, Leshrac, and the other absurdly powerful beings of Magic lore is that unless the card is a ten-mana "you win the game" card, it wouldn't be doing justice to the pure absurd power level of the oldwalkers. Oldwalkers were gods. Not Theros "kinda sorta" gods. They were completely unbeatable unless you were one or something similar (Yawgmoth).
Imagine that Jace Signature Spellbook containing Jace, the Mind Sculptor and turning him from the Wallet Sculpter to the Peoples Sculpture. Crash the market. Eliminate the bourgeoisie.
I think the more likely scenario is that since he's basically 8x the MSRP of the spellbook every single one gets bought out by scalpers or horded and no one sees them actually make it to the shelves. I'm probably pre-ordering one the second it shows up since at worse I'm getting a jace themed counterspell reprint from the jace vs chandra duel deck in foil, Fact or Fiction Jace duel deck reprint in foil, and possibly a Jace Beleren. I highly doubt they are going to put the most powerful version of jace in the FTV unless they literally hold the spoilers to a week before release.
^THIS^.
Anyone expecting JtMS in a $20 MSRP product is deluding themselves.
They did fine with Freyalise and Teferi, both of them were on theme and relatively powerful for what they did. Urza is long overdue in a Commander product in foil. We'll get four decks and four shots to get something. I'm honestly hoping for Karn if we don't get Urza.
The color combinations we're lacking:
Azorious
Gruul
Dimir
Rakdos
Colorless
We had Rainbow Dragons and Selesnya Cats last year.
My guess for this year we might get Karn for the colorless Commander with new wastes art set on Argentum.
I'm hoping that we do get Urza, Karn, or Serra this year because those would be the best and most unique planeswalkers of them all.
My presumption:
1. Urza
2. Karn
3. Taysir
4. Azor (Planeswalker) to fill in BW when he was on Ravnica
5. Serra as white angel walker
6. Glacian as Blue White
I'm presuming Urza of the Nine Titans before getting his head lobbed off. Karn from Argentum Pure. Azor on ancient Ravnica. Serra in Serra's Sanctum when she meta Urza or was with Ferod in Homelands. Glacian before he was sealed. Taysir of Rabia.
We'll probably have newer planesewalkers though. Narset, Liliana, or Bo Levar.
[quote from="drmarkb »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/778120-masters-25?comment=108"]
Two dollar fetches would not be good for the game
Basically, look at all the cards that are used withscalding tarn. To reprint tarn, they'd also have to find a way to reprint those related cards at the same time or the price on those cards becomes much higher.
There's a few things with the collector's market:
1. Premium/foil cards
2. Older sets no longer in print
3. Autographs
4. Artist Proofs
5. Original art
6. Alternative art cards
7. Promotional cards
That's a lot of factors that go into those sets. Take a look at the various Commander cards for older cards, the legeldary itself may very well be cheap but the foil and other premium versions are often $10+ dollars over the price of the normal dollar rare. Those are a part of the collectors market and that is fine.
The issue with staples is that crashing Scalding Tarn hardcore would help entry level barriers of the game. It is a core staple to any Izzet deck across all formats. It is time to stop pandering to collectors and embrace that there are just certain cards that should not be at specific prices. I'm unapologetic in this response, because the necessary sacrifices of inherent value of Scalding Tarn in a non premium form allows new players to enter the format and play the decks they want to an extent.
Modern is a fetch/shockland base. The needs of the many, which is having a cheap mana base for new players outweighs the need of the guy who bought up fifteen play sets of Scalding Tarn. When you talk about losses this is in part portfolio theory where people will buy up blue chip cards like Yawgmoth's Will at a cheap end and then resell later for a higher price.
The MTG Finance community has it's own set of problems with buy outs, basically creating artificial scarcity in the market to drive up prices to profit on older cards. This is a commonly well known business practice with all major retailers and investors. Again, I state business practice.
However, not all good practices are good for everyone in the system. There's the tragedy of the commons, where if one person overgrazes a field then other businesses will suffer. Keeping Scalding Tarns radically above all other fetch land prices is good business practice, and smart. However, for Wizards, businesses that run tournaments at the local level, and branding purposes for Modern. This creates dramatic problems, when I float that people get into Modern they balk at the prices of Modern cards.
Modern needs more Modern players always, and the way to fuel that is to fuel cheap staples. I'm a collector as well, and disciplining the market for hard price drops on staples is the way to move the ball forwards. People still sell YGO cards, there are several premium outlets to invest in, and many people who are speculators have many, many, many formats to speculate on.
A healthy Standard and Modern has cheap Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks and that begins with staples. Richard Garfield even stated that staples should cost no more than $20. While I understand that the Reserved List is a mistake and needs to be abolished, it was a promise to collectors. That promise has held. Eventually, I feel that Wizards of the Coast will undermine prices for Staples whenever there is an uptick again in Standard power level.
Conservative design philosophy meeting secondary price conservativism is not a good strategy whenever considering entry level barriers. You can reprint Scalding Tarn to be similar to what happened to shock lands. When RTR came out it crashed the price of all the shock lands, and they still haven't recovered to what they originally were. That's a good thing for everyone, because when people buy up cheap shock lands and fetch lands it means those that it will move other cards as well as people build different decks. That is essential portfolio theory right there as all prices will rise inevitably.
The MTG Finance community doesn't want to lose money, and then there's theories about economics that are different ranges.
The collectors market should be supported with full art land cards, foils, rare foils, special one shot promotions, and so on. I have no issue with the mistake continuing to keep reserved list prices artificially high even. However, I'm not going to advocate for a format that was once very, very popular to become so cost prohibitive that a person has to travel for miles to just play a format that was once playable once or twice a month at your local LGS.
Legacy was at one point a very good format, and many people fought against the Reserved List. Many of us went into Modern for the reason, that the Great Mistake wouldn't be repeated again. Only to find out that the Great Mistake has mutated into new business practices and the common remark "it's too powerful for Standard." New reasons to not reprint cards is just a conservative design response to do nothing.
Faster rotation cycles and all other sorts of gimmicks to try and get me to buy more packs. If you want me to buy more products then make cards I want to play in Standard like Counterspell and Scalding Tarn. If you want me to buy Masters 25, then reprint cards I can use in several different formats and make certain that there's a large array of good commons and uncommons so when I open something I can use it, sell it, or trade it away. If I can get a Masterpiece or a foil card that's great, but I do not like the speculators market and do not wish ever to participate in it, ever.
Having cards shielded from speculators is a key need for price stability for bread and butter staples. If something is a staple, then it will attract the speculator. Speculators need to have discipline, and losing money is good discipline. Market fluctuates teach speculators how to be better speculators. By disciplining the secondary market, WoTC provides that it deals with promises but also not at the expense of itself.
Khans was one of the best all time selling sets, and with that in large thanks to the reprinting of much needed staples into the Standard and Modern card pool. WotC needs to sell packs in order to survive as a company, and willingly restricting what they reprint is not good business sense. It comes down to creating a person who is overly cautious but never doing something. Mewing and wringing hands over a maybe, but then when a smart business sense like reprinting specific staples with specific support and counter measures to the formats is what creates the long necessary buzz towards formats.
Khans was a great set, because it had something for everyone. Khans needs to be repeated every single set with old and new. The game needs young players and to bring back old players. It has to be constantly doing this, and that is done by creating a community of players who act as the front line to guard the community as the welcoming committee.
I can sell a format better when I can sell a community of players to play with than I can if I tell someone to buy and hold a card. Without people that sells the community of players and gives time and friendship to other players, the cards then have no value. More people in seats playing a format moves packs, and it is the need to sell that community. For everyone, no matter their race, color, creed, or gender.
If we're to see an increase in the amount of young players, then they are price conscious about their limited money that competes with many forms of entertainment. The one thing that Magic sells is a community of players that help each other. That is value you don't get from buying cards.
Low level entry barriers on physical cards with good people gets butts in seats. That's the primary goal of Magic is to get people playing. Without that there is no need to talk about the MTG Finance community. Reprinting Juzam Djinn and taking it off of the Reserved List is foolish for obvious reasons ranging from past promises to price stability for investor class. However, there are no promises about $70 Scalding Tarns. Which means that without promises comes the need to drop prices as it is a staple, and the perfect way for WoTC to sell packs in M25 and Dominaria.
Counterspells? I see a lot of blue players using Search for Azcanta but *not* using Countervailing Winds. They are already looking to put >= 7 cards in the graveyard, so why not "counter target spell unless your opponent pays 5 (or 6, or 7, or more)"? Actually, I know why they don't--it is because they read an article which told them "don't use that".
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile were Standard legal cards at one point, prior to the inkling of Modern. The issue for those spells is mostly a philosophical one for the color pie committee. They don't want white to have the best removal and feel it warps draft whenever there's common removal spells.
The issue has been the power creep of creatures and deescalation in spell power. This is on purpose by design to tune down one aspect of the game while turning up another part of the game. These are experimental designs to encourage draft at the expense of the constructed formats. Standard is no longer seen as a gateway to Modern is another problem.
The Masters are finally the answer they needed to reprints necessary for Modern, Commander, Legacy, and Vintage. Standard, though, is just as equally a place for Modern staples reprints. It took them too long to reprint fetch lands that Aaron Forsythe fairly much ordered the first 5 cards in Khans to be fetch lands. This is how bad they are at reprints, but it seems to be a Mark Rosewater or a group of designers thing because he/they doesn't like shuffling effects, scared about power level, and enjoys new things over old things.
Mark Rosewater has stated to the effect that he could print Giant Growth several times per year, but would rather make new cards that might be functionally better or functionally worse. Because people want to see card. The push towards new cards all the time may push pack sales, which is a marketing problem. The grab bag design to push draft forward at the expense of card distribution is a problem, and a known issue. Draft design at the expense of all other constructed formats creates problems.
Reprints keep the game alive, cheap decks keep the new players entering in the format.
1. This is a great change to the game because it will allow for them to actually invite players to play FNM with a purpose now. The foil cards had trade value, but they were also great for Cube, Modern, Pauper, and casual 60 card decks. Tokens are only good for some Cube and some Commander decks after Standard. That's not enough to entice players.
2. Messing with rotation lists is what killed Extended. Modern was built to restart without the Reserved List. Extended was it's own unique format that was excellent for players with Standard collections and had a smaller, transition collection before the big time. The collision between price spikes and the rise of Commander, Cube, and Modern were the three horsemen that might've helped kill Extended saved Magic and developed the double digit growth back then.
Extended I feel could have existed as a transition format and something of a regional format in some places. It just became the canary on how to kill a format.
3. Mark Roeswater's vision was to have Standards without any of the original Magic cards in them. It's the concept of newness, but the issue has been that people want familiarity and to continue to use their collections. He's seen this with functional reprints as well, where people just want to be able to use their old cards with the old art.
4. Moving to 1 large set means that we lose out on Block Constructed format, which was another format we lost when new sets were released per year to two sets per year. It was a small format that with the right promotion was a good system.
That was the old supply chain for competitive players.
Today it is:
Casual 60 card->Commander
Draft->Standard->Modern
Draft->Cube
Now there are permutations and differences to note every single "supply chain" and introduction. However, you can see the system in that the reach to different formats requires people to actually move around a bit. The goal of the game is to be able to enjoy multiple formats, Magic is multiple games in one. And at the current, we're not getting the old value we saw out of commons and only uncommons and rares and mythics now for the most part maintain constructed value.
Casual and rogue decks are necessary, equally are promoting and supporting formats like Pauper. This would mean newer reprint cycles and building newer decks without problems in the game. I for one believe that the problems with the game are such that if the moved away from the New World Order on commons and embraced their 20 years of designs by using more of those cards. Then supporting more older formats and allowing for ease of transition into these formats.
Bulk rares and commons lead to cheap decks, cheap decks in formats leads to low level entry barriers. Khans was successful because it was a multi color block that had fetch lands and created many new Modern and Commander decks. They wait too long and too conservative to reprint cards, but always want to print new cards based on the latest theories on game design.
Magic is easy to reprint for, it is the lack of will. The focus on making draft more playable hurts Standard constructed and thereby other formats. Warping formats belongs to the destruction and undermining of spells in the game. The power level is too low to support the Standard metagame when a mistake is printed.
They did fine with Freyalise and Teferi, both of them were on theme and relatively powerful for what they did. Urza is long overdue in a Commander product in foil. We'll get four decks and four shots to get something. I'm honestly hoping for Karn if we don't get Urza.
The color combinations we're lacking:
Azorious
Gruul
Dimir
Rakdos
Colorless
We had Rainbow Dragons and Selesnya Cats last year.
My guess for this year we might get Karn for the colorless Commander with new wastes art set on Argentum.
I'm hoping that we do get Urza, Karn, or Serra this year because those would be the best and most unique planeswalkers of them all.
My presumption:
1. Urza
2. Karn
3. Taysir
4. Azor (Planeswalker) to fill in BW when he was on Ravnica
5. Serra as white angel walker
6. Glacian as Blue White
I'm presuming Urza of the Nine Titans before getting his head lobbed off. Karn from Argentum Pure. Azor on ancient Ravnica. Serra in Serra's Sanctum when she meta Urza or was with Ferod in Homelands. Glacian before he was sealed. Taysir of Rabia.
We'll probably have newer planesewalkers though. Narset, Liliana, or Bo Levar.
Dragon Shield Clear Matte
Dragon Shield Sky Blue Mattes
Dragon Shield Ivory
Was watching The Professor and he had something about the light colored Mattes not being tournament legal?
http://www.dragonshield.com/all-sleeves/matte
There's a few things with the collector's market:
1. Premium/foil cards
2. Older sets no longer in print
3. Autographs
4. Artist Proofs
5. Original art
6. Alternative art cards
7. Promotional cards
That's a lot of factors that go into those sets. Take a look at the various Commander cards for older cards, the legeldary itself may very well be cheap but the foil and other premium versions are often $10+ dollars over the price of the normal dollar rare. Those are a part of the collectors market and that is fine.
The issue with staples is that crashing Scalding Tarn hardcore would help entry level barriers of the game. It is a core staple to any Izzet deck across all formats. It is time to stop pandering to collectors and embrace that there are just certain cards that should not be at specific prices. I'm unapologetic in this response, because the necessary sacrifices of inherent value of Scalding Tarn in a non premium form allows new players to enter the format and play the decks they want to an extent.
Modern is a fetch/shockland base. The needs of the many, which is having a cheap mana base for new players outweighs the need of the guy who bought up fifteen play sets of Scalding Tarn. When you talk about losses this is in part portfolio theory where people will buy up blue chip cards like Yawgmoth's Will at a cheap end and then resell later for a higher price.
The MTG Finance community has it's own set of problems with buy outs, basically creating artificial scarcity in the market to drive up prices to profit on older cards. This is a commonly well known business practice with all major retailers and investors. Again, I state business practice.
However, not all good practices are good for everyone in the system. There's the tragedy of the commons, where if one person overgrazes a field then other businesses will suffer. Keeping Scalding Tarns radically above all other fetch land prices is good business practice, and smart. However, for Wizards, businesses that run tournaments at the local level, and branding purposes for Modern. This creates dramatic problems, when I float that people get into Modern they balk at the prices of Modern cards.
Modern needs more Modern players always, and the way to fuel that is to fuel cheap staples. I'm a collector as well, and disciplining the market for hard price drops on staples is the way to move the ball forwards. People still sell YGO cards, there are several premium outlets to invest in, and many people who are speculators have many, many, many formats to speculate on.
A healthy Standard and Modern has cheap Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks and that begins with staples. Richard Garfield even stated that staples should cost no more than $20. While I understand that the Reserved List is a mistake and needs to be abolished, it was a promise to collectors. That promise has held. Eventually, I feel that Wizards of the Coast will undermine prices for Staples whenever there is an uptick again in Standard power level.
Conservative design philosophy meeting secondary price conservativism is not a good strategy whenever considering entry level barriers. You can reprint Scalding Tarn to be similar to what happened to shock lands. When RTR came out it crashed the price of all the shock lands, and they still haven't recovered to what they originally were. That's a good thing for everyone, because when people buy up cheap shock lands and fetch lands it means those that it will move other cards as well as people build different decks. That is essential portfolio theory right there as all prices will rise inevitably.
The MTG Finance community doesn't want to lose money, and then there's theories about economics that are different ranges.
The collectors market should be supported with full art land cards, foils, rare foils, special one shot promotions, and so on. I have no issue with the mistake continuing to keep reserved list prices artificially high even. However, I'm not going to advocate for a format that was once very, very popular to become so cost prohibitive that a person has to travel for miles to just play a format that was once playable once or twice a month at your local LGS.
Legacy was at one point a very good format, and many people fought against the Reserved List. Many of us went into Modern for the reason, that the Great Mistake wouldn't be repeated again. Only to find out that the Great Mistake has mutated into new business practices and the common remark "it's too powerful for Standard." New reasons to not reprint cards is just a conservative design response to do nothing.
Faster rotation cycles and all other sorts of gimmicks to try and get me to buy more packs. If you want me to buy more products then make cards I want to play in Standard like Counterspell and Scalding Tarn. If you want me to buy Masters 25, then reprint cards I can use in several different formats and make certain that there's a large array of good commons and uncommons so when I open something I can use it, sell it, or trade it away. If I can get a Masterpiece or a foil card that's great, but I do not like the speculators market and do not wish ever to participate in it, ever.
Having cards shielded from speculators is a key need for price stability for bread and butter staples. If something is a staple, then it will attract the speculator. Speculators need to have discipline, and losing money is good discipline. Market fluctuates teach speculators how to be better speculators. By disciplining the secondary market, WoTC provides that it deals with promises but also not at the expense of itself.
Khans was one of the best all time selling sets, and with that in large thanks to the reprinting of much needed staples into the Standard and Modern card pool. WotC needs to sell packs in order to survive as a company, and willingly restricting what they reprint is not good business sense. It comes down to creating a person who is overly cautious but never doing something. Mewing and wringing hands over a maybe, but then when a smart business sense like reprinting specific staples with specific support and counter measures to the formats is what creates the long necessary buzz towards formats.
Khans was a great set, because it had something for everyone. Khans needs to be repeated every single set with old and new. The game needs young players and to bring back old players. It has to be constantly doing this, and that is done by creating a community of players who act as the front line to guard the community as the welcoming committee.
I can sell a format better when I can sell a community of players to play with than I can if I tell someone to buy and hold a card. Without people that sells the community of players and gives time and friendship to other players, the cards then have no value. More people in seats playing a format moves packs, and it is the need to sell that community. For everyone, no matter their race, color, creed, or gender.
If we're to see an increase in the amount of young players, then they are price conscious about their limited money that competes with many forms of entertainment. The one thing that Magic sells is a community of players that help each other. That is value you don't get from buying cards.
Low level entry barriers on physical cards with good people gets butts in seats. That's the primary goal of Magic is to get people playing. Without that there is no need to talk about the MTG Finance community. Reprinting Juzam Djinn and taking it off of the Reserved List is foolish for obvious reasons ranging from past promises to price stability for investor class. However, there are no promises about $70 Scalding Tarns. Which means that without promises comes the need to drop prices as it is a staple, and the perfect way for WoTC to sell packs in M25 and Dominaria.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile were Standard legal cards at one point, prior to the inkling of Modern. The issue for those spells is mostly a philosophical one for the color pie committee. They don't want white to have the best removal and feel it warps draft whenever there's common removal spells.
The issue has been the power creep of creatures and deescalation in spell power. This is on purpose by design to tune down one aspect of the game while turning up another part of the game. These are experimental designs to encourage draft at the expense of the constructed formats. Standard is no longer seen as a gateway to Modern is another problem.
The Masters are finally the answer they needed to reprints necessary for Modern, Commander, Legacy, and Vintage. Standard, though, is just as equally a place for Modern staples reprints. It took them too long to reprint fetch lands that Aaron Forsythe fairly much ordered the first 5 cards in Khans to be fetch lands. This is how bad they are at reprints, but it seems to be a Mark Rosewater or a group of designers thing because he/they doesn't like shuffling effects, scared about power level, and enjoys new things over old things.
Mark Rosewater has stated to the effect that he could print Giant Growth several times per year, but would rather make new cards that might be functionally better or functionally worse. Because people want to see card. The push towards new cards all the time may push pack sales, which is a marketing problem. The grab bag design to push draft forward at the expense of card distribution is a problem, and a known issue. Draft design at the expense of all other constructed formats creates problems.
Reprints keep the game alive, cheap decks keep the new players entering in the format.
2. Messing with rotation lists is what killed Extended. Modern was built to restart without the Reserved List. Extended was it's own unique format that was excellent for players with Standard collections and had a smaller, transition collection before the big time. The collision between price spikes and the rise of Commander, Cube, and Modern were the three horsemen that might've helped kill Extended saved Magic and developed the double digit growth back then.
Extended I feel could have existed as a transition format and something of a regional format in some places. It just became the canary on how to kill a format.
3. Mark Roeswater's vision was to have Standards without any of the original Magic cards in them. It's the concept of newness, but the issue has been that people want familiarity and to continue to use their collections. He's seen this with functional reprints as well, where people just want to be able to use their old cards with the old art.
4. Moving to 1 large set means that we lose out on Block Constructed format, which was another format we lost when new sets were released per year to two sets per year. It was a small format that with the right promotion was a good system.
Draft->Block Constructed->Standard->Extended->Legacy
That was the old supply chain for competitive players.
Today it is:
Casual 60 card->Commander
Draft->Standard->Modern
Draft->Cube
Now there are permutations and differences to note every single "supply chain" and introduction. However, you can see the system in that the reach to different formats requires people to actually move around a bit. The goal of the game is to be able to enjoy multiple formats, Magic is multiple games in one. And at the current, we're not getting the old value we saw out of commons and only uncommons and rares and mythics now for the most part maintain constructed value.
Casual and rogue decks are necessary, equally are promoting and supporting formats like Pauper. This would mean newer reprint cycles and building newer decks without problems in the game. I for one believe that the problems with the game are such that if the moved away from the New World Order on commons and embraced their 20 years of designs by using more of those cards. Then supporting more older formats and allowing for ease of transition into these formats.
Bulk rares and commons lead to cheap decks, cheap decks in formats leads to low level entry barriers. Khans was successful because it was a multi color block that had fetch lands and created many new Modern and Commander decks. They wait too long and too conservative to reprint cards, but always want to print new cards based on the latest theories on game design.
Magic is easy to reprint for, it is the lack of will. The focus on making draft more playable hurts Standard constructed and thereby other formats. Warping formats belongs to the destruction and undermining of spells in the game. The power level is too low to support the Standard metagame when a mistake is printed.