I feel that in Jund there are no easy wins. We aren't just playing creatures and turning them sideways, or finding 3 lands for a turn 3 Karn, or emptying our hand with burn spells. Other than the powerful discard/goyf/lily curve, our strategy is very fluid and matchup dependent. Knowing the little nuances is what separates a win from a loss in many cases for us.
Also, I've been seeing virtually all 25-land lists showing results recently. Even the master is on 25. Still, I have decided to try the 24-land build with 3/3 split bolt/push, 2 terminates, and 6 discard; as well as a 3rd ooze in the board. I still don't know which direction is better with GP Hartford coming up.
I know this has been discussed recently, but I personally am not a fan of Anger. I feel that our manabase isn’t super reliable to cast double red turn 3, and that good opponents will play around it. Also, decks like Humans can outgrow it. I’m not running any boardwipes right now, but if I had to I would run Damnation over Anger for its application against Etched Champion and Eldrazi. Anger is better against graveyard decks like Dredge, but I feel that Hollow One is the gy deck being played more right now; and Anger can’t kill mummies or Delve fatties. For now, both Anger and Damnation are in my maybebaord.
I also agree that BBE is super strong on her own. Even if you don't have a decent cascade target, you are still getting rid of a bad topdeck. However, even though she turned out to be stronger than Jace, I don't think she's ban-worthy by any means. The meta is still diverse, and arguably even more so. We are now seeing Ponza, Tribal Zoo and RG Eldrazi variants in addition to everything else. Only stuff that really have fallen are other BGx decks such as Abzan and BG Rock, which I'm not sad to see fade. IMO Jund is a lot more fun anyway.
Also, I am still not comfortable giving up Mages in the 75, at least in my local meta. My meta has a lot of control, and it is our answer to Colonnades and flipped Azcantas. If those cards stick, it's pretty much game over. If nothing else, Mage can swing in for damage until the opponent is forced to remove it and you just blow up a land in response. I have also been tempted to try a basic mountain because of control, but it's just so bad early, and a bad topdeck.
As for the poll, I technically prefer the Argyle/Planechase art, but I own the Alara ones atm since I couldn’t get a hold of the Argyle ones; and I think the Alara art is a close second-best. The sky and background in this are really cool, but Argyle’s elf looks more intimidating and... “elfy”
-What are your basics of choice (as in what sets) for this deck and why?
Right now I’m on Battle for Zendikar full arts, but next time I go to my store I wanna get Unstable ones since they’re so pretty, surreal and “magic-like”.
-Which Terminate do y’all run?
Alara Reborn.
-Has anyone sprung for fancy Lightning Bolts?
Don’t know what’s considered fancy, but I’m running MM2 bolts atm. I also have Unlimited ones, but they were quite beaten up when I bought them; so I later went for cleaner, newer ones.
-Does everyone run the FNM BBE’s? If not, is it because you prefer another set/art or you just can’t find them at the moment?
I panic-bought the Alara Reborn ones the day before the unbans since the Planechase ones were out of stock at the time. I think the Planechase ones are superior, but I’ll take Alara Reborn over the C16 art any day.
Yea the Jund player vs GDS made some poor sideboard decisions imo. BBE is what swings games in our favor, especially in matchups where card advantage matters. I never want to side it out against fair decks.
And as for Surgical Extraction, I think it is one of the most overrated cards to be played. Even when I was playing Abzan, I was never excited to see it unless paired with Fulminator or discard of a core combo piece. Decks have become so resilient in recent times, where I don’t see the card putting in much work, especially against consistent fair decks like GDS.
Surgical a Snap Mage target? Seems cute, but it’s by no means devastating to their plan. They have many, many other means to come back. If you want Snap Mage/graveyard hate, play Spellbomb. That at least hoses their entire gy so they can’t play their delve creatures or recur a creature with K-command; and it can be a cantrip if nothing else.
Surgical is not graveyard hate, it is combo hate; and is tempo and card DISadvantage for yourself. As mentioned, it is a HORRIBLE topdeck, and I do NOT want bad topdecks against decks like GDS.
Reporting on a modern event at my local store last Tuesday. I have returned from a hiatus to play Jund for the first time (I played Abzan quite a bit in 2017, so I’ve owned most of the core pieces). I went 2-2, which isn’t great, but I will say that at least one of the losses was completely my fault.
List I ran (yes I need 4th LOTV/Bob and Mire over Marsh):
Grixis Control, 2-1
I am interested at how this game would go had my opponent drawn Jace for any of the games. The opponent is one of my buddies, and he told me beforehand that he got Jaces.
G1: I slam down threats but if I remember correctly he drew a total of 3 fatal pushes + snapping one. We grind back and forth for a bit. I terminate his Tasigur, but he Kommands it back and plays it again. I flood out.
-2 Push, -1 Decay, -2 Terminate, -4 Bolt
+1 Thrun, +1 Finks, +1 LTLH, +1 Pulse, +3 Fulminator, +2 CB
I figured LOTV and an extra Pulse would take care of Tasigur and Jace.
G2: I drew Fulminator on the curve and I blew up what I believed was his only black source. Later on, Liliana the Last Hope milled 2 Fulminators on top of each other (lucky me), I recurred one, and I blew up his Tar Pit. At this point he was already behind and the Tar Pit blow up was just another nail in the coffin. I don’t think he had many cantrips, if any, this game to pull himself up. He scoops soon after drawing another land and no threats or Tasigur.
G3: I drew gas this game. Goyf, Goyf, BBE cascade Goyf; and he couldn’t answer it all. I did miss Thrun off of that cascade though
Mardu Pyromancer, 0-2
This matchup I am not so sure of. There are so many sideboarding possibilities, since they are a midrange deck- that also is go-wide- that ALSO has graveyard interaction. It feels beatable but tough from my experiences.
G1: I was able to deal with the first Blood Moon (I had a swamp and forest out, and a decay in hand), but I wasn't able to deal with the second one, since my manlands couldn't sink my mana anymore as I drew lands.
G2: This game was more grindy. We exchange resources, but my opponent just went wide, hard-casting 2-3 Lingering Souls and flashing them back. I probably casted my Pulse too early on them (he had 4 out at the time), but he drew another one; and my life total was low at this point so I couldn't do much.
Some Mono-black Pack Rat Deck, 2-0
I haven't seen Pack Rat yet outside of the B/R list, so it seemed spicy. Unfortunately for my opponent, I had answers to everything he put out. I won by resolving my ol Lily the Last Hope both of these games.
G1: He plays Pack Rat, I bolt it. He plays Bitterblossom, but I had LTLH in my opening hand, and became very eager to play it turn 3 after that resolved; and I kept pinging his tokens. I then rode a big Goyf and his Bitterblossom lifeloss to victory.
-2 LOTV, -2 TS, -1 Terminate (I think?)
+1 LTLH, +1 Grim, +1 Pulse, +2 CB
I wasn't so sure how to side because I didn't see much of my opponent's deck; so I packed more go-wide creature removal based on what I saw (still don't know if this was correct).
G2: He thoughtseizes my BBE, plays Bob, and I bolt it. I drew and played LTLH, then he plays Gifted Aetherborn. I recurred my BBE, and I cast it into Push (right when I needed it, phew), and swung in. I then put out more threats and damage, and he scoops.
Storm, 0-2
We are positioned well against storm, but I don't have a lot of experience playing against it, since I haven't faced it very often. This showed in game 2, and I learned quite some things. Game 1, however, was another story.
G1: This loss was completely due to my stupid misplay. I swung in for damage with my big Goyf, and I had lethal next turn. However, I tapped my mana wrong, having no untapped red sources and a Bolt in hand. He resolves Baral, and goes off. For some reason I interpreted holding a Push, as I'm so used to seeing it in Abzan; but I had just pushed his GE earlier. I have to be a LOT more careful tapping red mana, especially when running 4 bolts.
-1 LTLH, -2 Terminate, -1 Decay, -2 Kommand (I thought of keeping these due to the discard, but perhaps they're too slow?)
+2 CB, +1 Cage, +2 Spellbomb, +1 Pulse
G2: The lack of experience showed. I sided out in accordance to their Pieces of the Puzzle plan, but did not know that a card like Wipe Away existed. So what happened was that I played Spellbomb and held it too late, as I was not prepared for it and Spellbomb fizzled under split second. He goes off with his Empty the Warrens, spawning 18 tokens. However, I got extremely lucky and I topdecked a Pulse and got rid of the tokens, even though I should've been punished harder for not hosing the graveyard sooner (or playing it as early as I did). Nonetheless I was still punished, as he was still able to cast warrens again with no graveyard hate presence. Perhaps I shouldv'e waited to play Spellbomb to immediately hose the gy while I still held priority.
I will note I was relatively light on discard this game and maybe should have mulliganed? I did have Spellbomb and IOK in the opening, so I thought it was pretty solid. I probably just misplayed and got caught off guard by wipe away.
Things I took from this night:
The more I see Thrun, the more I’m not very impressed, especially with BBE. Once I get my 4th LOTV (it’s coming in the mail) I think I will move my third Thoughtseize to the board, replacing the Thrun.
I like having 2 Pulses in the 75, since it's a versatile "catch-all" card that gets rid of PWs, token swarms, and cheeky problem permanents.
Here's my list so far. A couple of odd things though:
As of now I could only manage to get 3 Cliffs, but that number will be 4 (in place of a Marsh) as soon as i get my hands on another one. Perhaps I should have a basic mountain in the meantime? Although it really isn't optimal, for we really need the black.
I have an extra Pulse in the SB since I expect to see a lot of Jaces in my local meta (many wanted him to be unbanned). I was thinking of Dreadbore, but an extra Pulse would be more versatile, such as against Souls, Pyromancer and Warrens tokens.
If I had a 4th LOTV I would totally play her in a heartbeat, but for now I have a 3/2 split in the 75. 2 Last Hopes might be overkill, but with BBE and the new planeswalker rule, Liliana planeswalkers only get better.
New to posting on this forum. I'm fairly new to BGx decks, I started playing Abzan last summer because I love what BGx decks do. I've always wanted to play Jund though, but Jund hasn't been great recently. But now with BBE unbanned, I am officially switching to Jund. I just bought all the red staples except for Blackcleave Cliffs, but now they're spiking and I can't find any on TCGplayer currently that are English and not foil.
Also, I've been seeing virtually all 25-land lists showing results recently. Even the master is on 25. Still, I have decided to try the 24-land build with 3/3 split bolt/push, 2 terminates, and 6 discard; as well as a 3rd ooze in the board. I still don't know which direction is better with GP Hartford coming up.
Also, I am still not comfortable giving up Mages in the 75, at least in my local meta. My meta has a lot of control, and it is our answer to Colonnades and flipped Azcantas. If those cards stick, it's pretty much game over. If nothing else, Mage can swing in for damage until the opponent is forced to remove it and you just blow up a land in response. I have also been tempted to try a basic mountain because of control, but it's just so bad early, and a bad topdeck.
- Go up to 6 discard main with a 4/2 split IOK/TS. I currently have a 3/2 split with a TS in the board.
- Add a second Terminate
- Move the second Pulse from the board to the main
OR
- Add a third Ooze
This is considering an open meta, in preparation for GP Hartford. I'm just not sure which direction to go, and it looks like many others don't eitherEDIT: 5th option is that I could add a third Push
Right now I’m on Battle for Zendikar full arts, but next time I go to my store I wanna get Unstable ones since they’re so pretty, surreal and “magic-like”.
-Which Terminate do y’all run?
Alara Reborn.
-Has anyone sprung for fancy Lightning Bolts?
Don’t know what’s considered fancy, but I’m running MM2 bolts atm. I also have Unlimited ones, but they were quite beaten up when I bought them; so I later went for cleaner, newer ones.
-Does everyone run the FNM BBE’s? If not, is it because you prefer another set/art or you just can’t find them at the moment?
I panic-bought the Alara Reborn ones the day before the unbans since the Planechase ones were out of stock at the time. I think the Planechase ones are superior, but I’ll take Alara Reborn over the C16 art any day.
And as for Surgical Extraction, I think it is one of the most overrated cards to be played. Even when I was playing Abzan, I was never excited to see it unless paired with Fulminator or discard of a core combo piece. Decks have become so resilient in recent times, where I don’t see the card putting in much work, especially against consistent fair decks like GDS.
Surgical a Snap Mage target? Seems cute, but it’s by no means devastating to their plan. They have many, many other means to come back. If you want Snap Mage/graveyard hate, play Spellbomb. That at least hoses their entire gy so they can’t play their delve creatures or recur a creature with K-command; and it can be a cantrip if nothing else.
Surgical is not graveyard hate, it is combo hate; and is tempo and card DISadvantage for yourself. As mentioned, it is a HORRIBLE topdeck, and I do NOT want bad topdecks against decks like GDS.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper
List I ran (yes I need 4th LOTV/Bob and Mire over Marsh):
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Land
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Treetop Village
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Grixis Control, 2-1
I am interested at how this game would go had my opponent drawn Jace for any of the games. The opponent is one of my buddies, and he told me beforehand that he got Jaces.
G1: I slam down threats but if I remember correctly he drew a total of 3 fatal pushes + snapping one. We grind back and forth for a bit. I terminate his Tasigur, but he Kommands it back and plays it again. I flood out.
-2 Push, -1 Decay, -2 Terminate, -4 Bolt
+1 Thrun, +1 Finks, +1 LTLH, +1 Pulse, +3 Fulminator, +2 CB
I figured LOTV and an extra Pulse would take care of Tasigur and Jace.
G2: I drew Fulminator on the curve and I blew up what I believed was his only black source. Later on, Liliana the Last Hope milled 2 Fulminators on top of each other (lucky me), I recurred one, and I blew up his Tar Pit. At this point he was already behind and the Tar Pit blow up was just another nail in the coffin. I don’t think he had many cantrips, if any, this game to pull himself up. He scoops soon after drawing another land and no threats or Tasigur.
G3: I drew gas this game. Goyf, Goyf, BBE cascade Goyf; and he couldn’t answer it all. I did miss Thrun off of that cascade though
Mardu Pyromancer, 0-2
This matchup I am not so sure of. There are so many sideboarding possibilities, since they are a midrange deck- that also is go-wide- that ALSO has graveyard interaction. It feels beatable but tough from my experiences.
G1: I was able to deal with the first Blood Moon (I had a swamp and forest out, and a decay in hand), but I wasn't able to deal with the second one, since my manlands couldn't sink my mana anymore as I drew lands.
-6 discard, -3 LOTV
+1 LTLH, +1 Grim, +2 Spellbomb, +1 Finks, +1 Pulse, +2 CB, +1 Thrun
G2: This game was more grindy. We exchange resources, but my opponent just went wide, hard-casting 2-3 Lingering Souls and flashing them back. I probably casted my Pulse too early on them (he had 4 out at the time), but he drew another one; and my life total was low at this point so I couldn't do much.
Some Mono-black Pack Rat Deck, 2-0
I haven't seen Pack Rat yet outside of the B/R list, so it seemed spicy. Unfortunately for my opponent, I had answers to everything he put out. I won by resolving my ol Lily the Last Hope both of these games.
G1: He plays Pack Rat, I bolt it. He plays Bitterblossom, but I had LTLH in my opening hand, and became very eager to play it turn 3 after that resolved; and I kept pinging his tokens. I then rode a big Goyf and his Bitterblossom lifeloss to victory.
-2 LOTV, -2 TS, -1 Terminate (I think?)
+1 LTLH, +1 Grim, +1 Pulse, +2 CB
I wasn't so sure how to side because I didn't see much of my opponent's deck; so I packed more go-wide creature removal based on what I saw (still don't know if this was correct).
G2: He thoughtseizes my BBE, plays Bob, and I bolt it. I drew and played LTLH, then he plays Gifted Aetherborn. I recurred my BBE, and I cast it into Push (right when I needed it, phew), and swung in. I then put out more threats and damage, and he scoops.
Storm, 0-2
We are positioned well against storm, but I don't have a lot of experience playing against it, since I haven't faced it very often. This showed in game 2, and I learned quite some things. Game 1, however, was another story.
G1: This loss was completely due to my stupid misplay. I swung in for damage with my big Goyf, and I had lethal next turn. However, I tapped my mana wrong, having no untapped red sources and a Bolt in hand. He resolves Baral, and goes off. For some reason I interpreted holding a Push, as I'm so used to seeing it in Abzan; but I had just pushed his GE earlier. I have to be a LOT more careful tapping red mana, especially when running 4 bolts.
-1 LTLH, -2 Terminate, -1 Decay, -2 Kommand (I thought of keeping these due to the discard, but perhaps they're too slow?)
+2 CB, +1 Cage, +2 Spellbomb, +1 Pulse
G2: The lack of experience showed. I sided out in accordance to their Pieces of the Puzzle plan, but did not know that a card like Wipe Away existed. So what happened was that I played Spellbomb and held it too late, as I was not prepared for it and Spellbomb fizzled under split second. He goes off with his Empty the Warrens, spawning 18 tokens. However, I got extremely lucky and I topdecked a Pulse and got rid of the tokens, even though I should've been punished harder for not hosing the graveyard sooner (or playing it as early as I did). Nonetheless I was still punished, as he was still able to cast warrens again with no graveyard hate presence. Perhaps I shouldv'e waited to play Spellbomb to immediately hose the gy while I still held priority.
I will note I was relatively light on discard this game and maybe should have mulliganed? I did have Spellbomb and IOK in the opening, so I thought it was pretty solid. I probably just misplayed and got caught off guard by wipe away.
Things I took from this night:
- The more I see Thrun, the more I’m not very impressed, especially with BBE. Once I get my 4th LOTV (it’s coming in the mail) I think I will move my third Thoughtseize to the board, replacing the Thrun.
- I like having 2 Pulses in the 75, since it's a versatile "catch-all" card that gets rid of PWs, token swarms, and cheeky problem permanents.
- BBE is GAS, especially with Liliana, the Last Hope
- I may want to put a wrath, namely AOTG, in the board. I just don't know what to cut. Maybe the third Thoughtseize isn't necessary.
- I need more experience playing against Storm (and not carelessly misplay
) - Jund is really, really fun. I am glad I saved up to invest in the deck; and even if I lose, I feel like I always have a fighting chance and a clock.
Thanks for reading my incredibly long post lol.Totally agree. “Greatness, at any cost” is not to be taken lightly.
The only matchup Bob as really bad against is Burn, and we auto-side out in that matchup anyway.
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Land
3 Raging Ravine
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Here's my list so far. A couple of odd things though:
As of now I could only manage to get 3 Cliffs, but that number will be 4 (in place of a Marsh) as soon as i get my hands on another one. Perhaps I should have a basic mountain in the meantime? Although it really isn't optimal, for we really need the black.
I have an extra Pulse in the SB since I expect to see a lot of Jaces in my local meta (many wanted him to be unbanned). I was thinking of Dreadbore, but an extra Pulse would be more versatile, such as against Souls, Pyromancer and Warrens tokens.
If I had a 4th LOTV I would totally play her in a heartbeat, but for now I have a 3/2 split in the 75. 2 Last Hopes might be overkill, but with BBE and the new planeswalker rule, Liliana planeswalkers only get better.