I'm very new to the deck. I've only run it through a couple of leagues, but I just picked up a 5-0 (10-1 in games) in a friendly league this afternoon with this list:
I think I definitely benefited from a couple of favorable matches, but deck felt great. 2-0 vs Counters Company
G1 (W): T2 trap into surgical of Devoted Druid draws the concession
G2 (W): T3 double trap into surgical draws concession 2-0 vs Amulet Titan
G1 (W): Starts off looking bad. Opp starts on double Amulet, but has no payoff so my slow keep isn't punished. Orb is my only mill piece, which they EE immediately. Push answers his ballista. I get a bridge down and draw into mill, letting me briefing a surgical to take their titans. they concede.
G2 (W): Mull to 5, but it's a strong 5 (land, crab, glimpse, cut, extirpate). I quickly mill a titan, surgical, and opp concedes. 2-0 vs Bant Spirits
G1 (W): Extremely close game. Crab and trap do a lot of work, but opp is swinging in with lethal only to get blindsided with a mid-attack Collective Brutality cast with Shelldock Isle, killing their phantasmal image and gaining me 2 life, leaving me alive to mill them out the following turn with a land drop.
G2 (W): They keep what seems to be a slow hand, banking on Thalia to slow me down. It + wanderer do present an annoyance, but crab & orb do a steady job churning through their deck. There's a fun sequence when I go to push their thalia. They queller it, but I set adrift their queller, letting me push thalia, and then orb mills away their queller. It's clear they have a company or 2 in hand, but they can't get to 4 mana. field of ruin was functionally wasteland because few basics got milled away. 2-1 vs Tron
G1 (L): I keep a medium hand that does nothing against Tron. I draw into aggressive mill and nearly get there anyway. They land a Karn on T4. I get them to 1 card before they ultimate him and reset the game with an Ulamog in play.
G2 (W): T3 crab mills tron piece and surgical removes it. Opp tries to play it out, but T4 field of ruin into trap into briefing/trap basically ends it.
G3 (W): I keep a hand with a surgical and 2 extirpates, but trap as my only mill. Thankfully, Opp has to sylvan scrying on T3, letting me trap and surgical the land he searched for. Opp tried to be sneaky with a surgical in response to mine, but I extirpate in response. Opp tries to play it out again, but can't draw a land for the TKS in hand, and they concede when I drop Ensnaring Bridge. 2-0 vs Hollow One
G1 (W): They have T2 Hollow One + Tasigur. I have a bridge in hand, but brutality first to dump some cards, and get the bridge down on T4. Eventually they get 2 bloodghasts and phoenixes out, but I'm able to get my hand empty before they can do enough damage. I get a good crypt incursion to go back up to 24 and opp concedes.
G2 (W): I keep a hand that isn't awesome, but I get a T1 trap. I consider waiting, but I do have an extirpate in hand, so I risk it. I'm able to remove their bloodghasts. I'm not loving my hand, but I have crab, lands, and some a couple answers. Opp scoops after they don't get their second land on T4.
Deck was super fun. Made up for the 1-4 I put up last night. A deck that makes main deck surgical extraction effective is so good against so many decks.
Roulette is a great name for the version of the deck that runs the random discarders (goblin lore, Burning inquiry) Not everyone runs the random discarders though. Some people play the deck using nonrandom discarders and cyclers. And for those flavours the name isn’t such a fit.
yeah, i think it might be time that the forums are divided. the ways the decks play are so radically different, and the fact that they both play Hollow One isn't enough to keep them together. giving RB a clear and unique name might be the thing that can make that possible.
Anybody fiddle around with sweepers like Pyroclasm, Sweltering Suns, or Toxic Deluge in the SB? They seem like they could be very good in some matchups (I'm thinking fast creature decks like Affinity and Humans or go-wide decks with chump blocking tokens), especially since we can mitigate their symmetry.
I've played about 15 games with Macabre Waltz as a 2-of, so very limited sample, but it has yet to do much of anything to influence a game. Usually it gets pitched to a looting spell. When it hasn't, it always seemed to be in hand at the wrong time.
How are (RB) people siding for Affinity? I'm struggling with this match-up. We have a number of options that can be relevant, but it's not clear to me how to balance the best options with maintaining our core plan of attack.
Sideboarding too much is definitely something I've struggled with. I would definitely be helped by hearing about others experience with what to bring in because a lot of the sideboard cards seem relevant in matchups where they're not necessarily optimal. I'm on the RB version. Running through some of the top decks (this is not authoritative; it's just brainstorming):
Tron
Relevant: Blood Moon, Ancient Grudge
Out: Bolt? It doesn't answer any threats, but it speeds up the clock by going to the dome.
My sense is that Grudge is too cute. +2 Moons; -2 Bolts
Humans
Relevant: Blood Moon, Grim Lavamancer, Ancient Grudge, Fatal Push
Out: Nothing is bad, but Brutality is probably worst card.
Fatal Push comes in for sure. Moon is probably too slow and is hurt by Aether Vial. +2 Push; -2 Brutality.
GDS
Relevant: Blood Moon, Big Game Hunter, Fatal Push, Leyline
Out: Probably Brutality, and maybe Burning Inquiry does help their game plan
Not confident at all about this one. BGH for sure. Push probably. Leyline (shuts down snapcaster, tasigur & angler) and Moon (very vulnerable mana base) can be powerful, but I don't know. I also don't know how they side for us. My guess: +2 BGH, +2 Push; -2 Brutality, -2 Inquiry
Burn
Relevant: Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer
Out: Street Wraith does Burn's work for them
+2 Push, +2 Lavamancer, -4 Wraith
Affinity
Relevant: Ancient Grudge, Blood Moon, Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer
Out: ?
Do we actually become the control deck here? I have no idea what the best strategy is here.
Jeskai Control
Relevant: Blood Moon, Leyline
Out: ?
Just standing pat seems right to me.
Eldrazi Tron
Relevant: Blood Moon, Big Game Hunter, Fatal Push, Ancient Grudge, Collective Brutality
Out: Bolt
Grudge and Moon seem essential. After that, not sure. +2 Grudge, +2 Moon, +2 BGH; -4 Bolt, -2 Bloodghast
Storm
Relevant: Collective Brutality, Fatal Push, Leyline
Out: ?
I know I want to bring Brutality and Push in. I think Leyline is probably pretty good. But I have no idea what to take out. Maybe thin on creatures? A guess: +1 Brutality, +2 Push, +3 Leyline; -2 Angler, -2 Phoenix, -2 Goblin Lore
Dredge
Relevant: Leyline
Out: Brutality isn't great, but neither is Burning Inquiry which may help them as much as it helps us.
+3 Leyline; -2 Brutality, -1 Inquiry
Titan Shift
Relevant: Brutality, Big Game Hunter
Out: Bolt
+1 Brutality, +2 BGH; -3 Bolt
Mardu Pyromancer
Relevant: Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer, Leyline
Out: ?
I haven't played this matchup yet, and I'm really not confident about what to do.
Traverse Shadow
Relevant: Leyline, Blood Moon, Fatal Push, Big Game Hunter
Out: Their threats get out of range of Bolt pretty fast, but they are vulnerable to direct damage.
Another one that I am very unsure about. I want to bring in +3 Leyline, +2 Moon, +2 Push, +2 BGH. They all seem very good. But I have no idea how to take out 9 cards from the deck. Maybe remove the Street Wraiths because they have such a fast clock that we don't want to help them? They frequently operate from an empty hand, so maybe Brutality isn't that good?
Mirror
Relevant: Leyline, Fatal Push, Big Game Hunter, Ancient Grudge
Out: Brutality, Bolt isn't great, Inquiry helps them
All of our options are situationally good, but imperfect. Not sure if Leyline is worth it, but I'll go: +2 BGH, +3 Leyline; -2 Brutality, -2 Inquiry, -1 Wraith
Appreciate the response. I've tried that, but I must be doing something wrong. When I do the drag-down-to-copy thing, it wants to change the cell number, but not the sheet number.
So, for example, when I copy down, 'Card 1'!A2 turns into 'Card 1'!A3, 'Card 1'!A4, and so on. Do you know how I do it so that it becomes 'Card 2'!A2, 'Card 3'!A2, etc?
Question. Do you have a script that generates the Weighted Data Trends sheet? I'm no pro at Excel, but I do have some experience with it. I basically understand pivot tables, but I can't figure out how you generated the Data Trends table without having to type the formula for each row (Card) in separately.
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Field of Ruin
2 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Polluted Delta
2 Shelldock Isle
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Creatures
4 Hedron Crab
Spells
4 Visions of Beyond
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Fatal Push
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Mission Briefing
2 Collective Brutality
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
2 Crypt Incursion
4 Archive Trap
1 Murderous Cut
3 Mesmeric Orb
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Echoing Truth
1 Set Adrift
4 Extirpate
1 Fatal Push
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Dismember
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Ensnaring Bridge
I think I definitely benefited from a couple of favorable matches, but deck felt great.
2-0 vs Counters Company
G1 (W): T2 trap into surgical of Devoted Druid draws the concession
G2 (W): T3 double trap into surgical draws concession
2-0 vs Amulet Titan
G1 (W): Starts off looking bad. Opp starts on double Amulet, but has no payoff so my slow keep isn't punished. Orb is my only mill piece, which they EE immediately. Push answers his ballista. I get a bridge down and draw into mill, letting me briefing a surgical to take their titans. they concede.
G2 (W): Mull to 5, but it's a strong 5 (land, crab, glimpse, cut, extirpate). I quickly mill a titan, surgical, and opp concedes.
2-0 vs Bant Spirits
G1 (W): Extremely close game. Crab and trap do a lot of work, but opp is swinging in with lethal only to get blindsided with a mid-attack Collective Brutality cast with Shelldock Isle, killing their phantasmal image and gaining me 2 life, leaving me alive to mill them out the following turn with a land drop.
G2 (W): They keep what seems to be a slow hand, banking on Thalia to slow me down. It + wanderer do present an annoyance, but crab & orb do a steady job churning through their deck. There's a fun sequence when I go to push their thalia. They queller it, but I set adrift their queller, letting me push thalia, and then orb mills away their queller. It's clear they have a company or 2 in hand, but they can't get to 4 mana. field of ruin was functionally wasteland because few basics got milled away.
2-1 vs Tron
G1 (L): I keep a medium hand that does nothing against Tron. I draw into aggressive mill and nearly get there anyway. They land a Karn on T4. I get them to 1 card before they ultimate him and reset the game with an Ulamog in play.
G2 (W): T3 crab mills tron piece and surgical removes it. Opp tries to play it out, but T4 field of ruin into trap into briefing/trap basically ends it.
G3 (W): I keep a hand with a surgical and 2 extirpates, but trap as my only mill. Thankfully, Opp has to sylvan scrying on T3, letting me trap and surgical the land he searched for. Opp tried to be sneaky with a surgical in response to mine, but I extirpate in response. Opp tries to play it out again, but can't draw a land for the TKS in hand, and they concede when I drop Ensnaring Bridge.
2-0 vs Hollow One
G1 (W): They have T2 Hollow One + Tasigur. I have a bridge in hand, but brutality first to dump some cards, and get the bridge down on T4. Eventually they get 2 bloodghasts and phoenixes out, but I'm able to get my hand empty before they can do enough damage. I get a good crypt incursion to go back up to 24 and opp concedes.
G2 (W): I keep a hand that isn't awesome, but I get a T1 trap. I consider waiting, but I do have an extirpate in hand, so I risk it. I'm able to remove their bloodghasts. I'm not loving my hand, but I have crab, lands, and some a couple answers. Opp scoops after they don't get their second land on T4.
Deck was super fun. Made up for the 1-4 I put up last night. A deck that makes main deck surgical extraction effective is so good against so many decks.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/a-guide-to-black-red-hollow-one-in-modern/
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/238497097
yeah, i think it might be time that the forums are divided. the ways the decks play are so radically different, and the fact that they both play Hollow One isn't enough to keep them together. giving RB a clear and unique name might be the thing that can make that possible.
Tron
Relevant: Blood Moon, Ancient Grudge
Out: Bolt? It doesn't answer any threats, but it speeds up the clock by going to the dome.
My sense is that Grudge is too cute. +2 Moons; -2 Bolts
Humans
Relevant: Blood Moon, Grim Lavamancer, Ancient Grudge, Fatal Push
Out: Nothing is bad, but Brutality is probably worst card.
Fatal Push comes in for sure. Moon is probably too slow and is hurt by Aether Vial. +2 Push; -2 Brutality.
GDS
Relevant: Blood Moon, Big Game Hunter, Fatal Push, Leyline
Out: Probably Brutality, and maybe Burning Inquiry does help their game plan
Not confident at all about this one. BGH for sure. Push probably. Leyline (shuts down snapcaster, tasigur & angler) and Moon (very vulnerable mana base) can be powerful, but I don't know. I also don't know how they side for us. My guess: +2 BGH, +2 Push; -2 Brutality, -2 Inquiry
Burn
Relevant: Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer
Out: Street Wraith does Burn's work for them
+2 Push, +2 Lavamancer, -4 Wraith
Affinity
Relevant: Ancient Grudge, Blood Moon, Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer
Out: ?
Do we actually become the control deck here? I have no idea what the best strategy is here.
Jeskai Control
Relevant: Blood Moon, Leyline
Out: ?
Just standing pat seems right to me.
Eldrazi Tron
Relevant: Blood Moon, Big Game Hunter, Fatal Push, Ancient Grudge, Collective Brutality
Out: Bolt
Grudge and Moon seem essential. After that, not sure. +2 Grudge, +2 Moon, +2 BGH; -4 Bolt, -2 Bloodghast
Storm
Relevant: Collective Brutality, Fatal Push, Leyline
Out: ?
I know I want to bring Brutality and Push in. I think Leyline is probably pretty good. But I have no idea what to take out. Maybe thin on creatures? A guess: +1 Brutality, +2 Push, +3 Leyline; -2 Angler, -2 Phoenix, -2 Goblin Lore
Dredge
Relevant: Leyline
Out: Brutality isn't great, but neither is Burning Inquiry which may help them as much as it helps us.
+3 Leyline; -2 Brutality, -1 Inquiry
Titan Shift
Relevant: Brutality, Big Game Hunter
Out: Bolt
+1 Brutality, +2 BGH; -3 Bolt
Mardu Pyromancer
Relevant: Fatal Push, Grim Lavamancer, Leyline
Out: ?
I haven't played this matchup yet, and I'm really not confident about what to do.
Traverse Shadow
Relevant: Leyline, Blood Moon, Fatal Push, Big Game Hunter
Out: Their threats get out of range of Bolt pretty fast, but they are vulnerable to direct damage.
Another one that I am very unsure about. I want to bring in +3 Leyline, +2 Moon, +2 Push, +2 BGH. They all seem very good. But I have no idea how to take out 9 cards from the deck. Maybe remove the Street Wraiths because they have such a fast clock that we don't want to help them? They frequently operate from an empty hand, so maybe Brutality isn't that good?
Mirror
Relevant: Leyline, Fatal Push, Big Game Hunter, Ancient Grudge
Out: Brutality, Bolt isn't great, Inquiry helps them
All of our options are situationally good, but imperfect. Not sure if Leyline is worth it, but I'll go: +2 BGH, +3 Leyline; -2 Brutality, -2 Inquiry, -1 Wraith
So, for example, when I copy down, 'Card 1'!A2 turns into 'Card 1'!A3, 'Card 1'!A4, and so on. Do you know how I do it so that it becomes 'Card 2'!A2, 'Card 3'!A2, etc?
Question. Do you have a script that generates the Weighted Data Trends sheet? I'm no pro at Excel, but I do have some experience with it. I basically understand pivot tables, but I can't figure out how you generated the Data Trends table without having to type the formula for each row (Card) in separately.