As a fellow white mage who has entertained some of the same thoughts - i backed away from the idea because im old enough to remember using balance, swords to plowshares, armageddon and land tax in the same deck.
White doesnt need more in its' color pie. It just needs better cards. I'm not going to compare it to green but I do think you had a point in comparing it to black. I think black has clearly got more going on and that's not cool. I dont like how black has Liliana at 3 but there's nothing to compare for white at 3 cmc.
Back to the big picture - white is a good place to have symmetric effects. Maybe a re-balanced version of big Elspeth's wrath effect could be put as the middle ability on a 1WW Elspeth PW? That would be flavorful, give white better game against Liliana, and with the right win condition it would satisfy your wish for a build-around card.
- Vedran999
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Illinest posted a message on Issue with power level and representation of colors in mtg modern metagamePosted in: Modern -
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TheGroglord posted a message on How do you feel about the Dominaria Leaks?Posted in: New Card DiscussionQuote from Vedran999 »
1.Healing Grace is a way to go, but is weak and I don't think it will impact modern alot. It is both effects of Healing salve in one card.
2.Firesong and Sunspeaker has the effect I would like to see as an archtype in modern but it's CMC is preventing that from happening. I assume its 4-6 since the P/T is 4/6
3.Merfolk Trickster is yet another proof of just how much love merfolks are getting recently. Don't know why. They were a great deck even before going green.
4.Lyra Dawnbringer. Very similar to Baneslayer angel, not very innovative.
5.I love Dauntless Bodyguard.
5.Seal Away...I think it should be a great addition to modern. Hopefully. There isn't much mainboard enchantment hate, it has flash, 2cmc and a full creature exile. It's good.
6.Squee, the immortal. I understand how the story of this guy works well with the mechanic of the card and it's flavor but I basically dislike that such effect is given to the red color. Similar color to this is Misthollow Griffin which is blue. To be able to cast cards from exile really hurts white color and reduces the value of PtE. I wanted to suggest that white color gets the ability to return spells and cast spells from exile as it's thing. I think it is flavorful to white in general, as it's thing. It exiles criminals and pardons them back...
7.Steal-leaf champion makes Leatherback Baloth obsolete. Why didn't the wizards make him more nuanced or a bit more situational. Now, there will never be a reason to play Leatherback at all since you can play this guy.
8.Benalish Marshal.....this is one of the problems..3 pure white mana for MC...why? That kind of mana cost makes this creature exclusive to white color. I undestand that Glorious Anthem also has CMC 3...but that was in 10th edition and modern evolved. One colorless mana in stead of one white mana wouldn't harm.
7. Redundency? Maybe someone wants 8 3 drops for their green stompy or devotion decks.
8. I think it is a nod to white weenie strategies and give a nice reward to people who enjoy mono colour decks. I think if it cost 1WW it would have to have been a 1/1 and at 2WW it is a better Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon" with more relevant creature types.
I was actually pretty excited to see monocolour decks getting some love -
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magac posted a message on Custom Keyword EncyclopediaJust posted this keyword in the custom card thread.Posted in: Custom Card Creation
Tactical (This creature can't be blocked if defending player has fewer cards in hand than you.)
It may not be the best keyword, seeing that it does screw up the same way Kamigawa's wisdom mechanic (having lots of cards in hand) did by punishing your for playing cards, but I dunno.... -
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richlaw84 posted a message on dual color symbol sleeves?I think they should make solid colors for mat sleeves that can represent dual color deck. Like KMC has the dark blue mats that I will use for my blue/black zombie control deck. But i wanna see some light green sleeves for w/g decks , light blue for b/w deck, dark green for g/b decks, just as examples. I do think it would be a good idea for them to make art sleeves that are mats that have a variety of mana symbols for the variety of multicolor deck choices we have. Makes sense.Posted in: Magic General -
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DirkGently posted a message on dual color symbol sleeves?I've been doing a lot of drafts recently and finally accomplished my unofficial goal of having an INN draft deck for each 2-color combination (my RW went 3-0 last night to complete the cycle. I wasn't trying to push RW since it sort of sucks, but I got way too many good cards in those colors to pass up). Anyway, I like keeping my best draft decks (one of each color combo) together for casual play later, so I was thinking of getting real man sleeves for the "keepers" instead of the penny sleeves I usually use during drafts. BUT I'd like to keep them organized by color so I know which is which. Ultra pro (I think) has the sleeves with color symbols on the back, but does anyone have sleeves with dual color symbols (i.e. red and white, or a R/W hybrid symbol)?Posted in: Magic General - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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It would be very helpful if we could have a statistics for every single card ever printed that state the following:
- ratio of (sum of all the cards of the same name (e.g. all the serum visions) that were played during a given season of modern play) and (sum of all the cards of the same color (all the blue cards) that saw play within that same modern season across all decks that utilized the same color) (e.g. blue). Example: ratio of all cards named Serum Vision during last modern season and all the purely blue cards that saw play within that same season
I guess the Wizards have a such a statistic but its for their internal use. If they don't I really recommend they should make one.
The first problem I see in modern is with the blue color. Usually, when I see a multicolored deck that has blue color in it, blue color will be the most represented one and within that blue color there will usually be the same cards that constantly repeat themselves across various archtypes; those are ofcourse the cantrips: Serum Visions, Sleight of hand, (Opt will surely be here as well) and some others too like: Thoughtscour, Remand etc. You can see this happen in grixis delver, jeskai delver, temur delver, UG delver, grixis control, jeskai control, UW control, UW tempo, Esper control, temur aggro...
Don't get me wrong. I like cantrips, I like drawing cards. That is because I like all the mechanisms of this fascinating game. I like its diversity. That is why I think these blue cards are narrowing the diversity of other playable blue cards but also the representation of other colors in vast number of decks.
There seems to be an overrepresentation of single mana blue cantrips: serum visions, sleight of hand, opt, banned ponder and brainstorm not to mention that there are other cantrips as well: remand, cryptic command, ojutai's command, spreading seas. Recently, on 4th February there was a modern challenge and this deck won: https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18409&d=314296&f=MO . It contained 20 cantrips or card-drawing mechanims of some sort.
Ofcourse, the most obvious card with that problem is the lightning bolt, the card that is most played card ever. The rhetorical question is: If you play red color, why aren't you playing a playset of lightning bolts in it? Even further, if you have an almost finished deck, could it be better with 4 lightning bolts in it? If yes, the rhetorical question is: why don't you? Grixis delver and temur delver decks splash red color sometimes just because of lightning bolt. One obvious thing to mention and emphasize is: Lightning bolt is a win condition.
Now, let's look at the white color: there, the only powerful card that constanly pops up in various decks that utilize white color is path to exile. And it is not a win condition.
Other white cards that appear in modern are either combo pieces or sideboard cards: puresteel paladin, angel's grace, stony silence, rest in peace, ethersworn canonist, blessed alliance, timely reinforcement, mirran crusader...the list goes on.
White color is not-arguably the weakest color in modern.
When you look at the win conditions of other colors:
Green: tarmogoyf, primeval titan, wild nacatl
Black: death's shadow, gurmag angler, tasigur, the golder fang,
Blue: delver of secrets
Red: lightnig bolt and its variants, goblin guide, monastery swiftspear
When you look at the mechanism and traits the colors use: the greatest diversity there is is among green and black color while the blue color holds control over the most important mechanism that are the heart of the game and those are casting of the spell (rather NOT) and card draw.
Blue: counter spell, draw a card, discard a card, the best creature and card ever printed, bunch of jaces
spell pierce, spell snare, dispel, remand, cryptic command, serum visions, sleight of hand, opt, spreading seas, snapcaster mage, jace the mind sculpter, jace, architect of thought
Green: boosters, return from graveyard to hand, noxious revival, mana acceleration, search library for..
blossoming defense, become immense, mutagenig growth, might of old krosa, eternal witness, arbor elf, bird of paradise, collected company, traverse the ulvenvald, mwonuli acid moss, satyr wayfinder
Black: opponent discard, return from graveyard to play, destroy creatures, pay life for card draw, others
Inquistion, Thoughtseize, Liliana of the Veil, Goryo's vengenance, Bloodghast, vendetta, murderous cut, go for the throat, doom blade, dark confidant, fatal push, ad nauseam, griselbrand, painful truths, living end, dark blast, small pox
White: exile creatures, taxation, others
Path to exile, thalia, guardian of thraben, leonin arbiter, puresteel paladin, soul's attendant, Soul Warden, martyr of sands, lingering souls, kor spirit dancer, daybreak coronet, selfless spirit, What powerful mechanism was white color gifted with? It has the most powerful sideboard hate but sideboard hate is not a win condition. It's a poor strategy to lose the first game so that you can use your powerful sideboard. Being splashed into a deck because of sideboard and not mineboard just proves how white color is secondary to any other. Puresteel paladin is not a win condition per se, it is a combo peace; a win condition in a puresteel paladin combo deck is usually grapeshot which is a red burn spell or, rarely, monastery mentor which is white. Soul Sisters and MartyProc decks were never tier 1 as far as I know. These 2 decks aren't played that much even in current metagame with no deck clearly dominating all the others. Life gaining effect is not a trait exclusive to white color. Black and green also have life-gaining effects. And altough life gaining effects would be mostly asociated with white color, I guess Wizards don't want to create cheap and powerful life-gaining cards because players would play such white cards more often and the there would be a shift of win-conditions from decreasing opponent's life to milling him or her, prolonging the games indefinetly. Personally, I would prefer that a few more decks like these exist. Losing life is the most common way of losing the game. Gaining life is a defensive measure, one mostly attributed to white color but unfortunately the Wizards keep this trait very low.
Vigilance is a rare trait that belongs solely to white color but it is basically a defensive trait and not an offesive one
I guess the main problem of white color in modern was made when colors were constructed. When one regards damage dealing capabilities:
1.Red: (direct burn, small haste creatures, P/T ration in favor of power)
2.Green: mana acceleration landing huge creatures early, trample
3.White: both small and big creatures
4.Black: both small and big creatures
5.Blue: creatures, P/T ratio in favor of toughness
Regarding control:
5.Green: almost none,
4. Red: direct creature burn, small board wipes
3.White: creature exile, creature destruction, mass-board wipe
2.Black: opponent discard, creature destruction, mass board-wipe
1.Blue: counter spell,
White is in the middle of everything. The sentence: „Jack of all trades but master of none“ unfortunately applies to it very well. It's not the master of aggro nor control but it seems to me that it's not even good in the middle, it's not even jack of all trades. It's a sink in the middle of everything.
There are many similarities between white color and black color and a few reasons why white color is in the shadow of the black. Black color does all the things that white color does, is better at control and is equally fast if not faster then white. Black and white have same mass sweepers (Damnation/wrath of God; take a look at the difference of price in those to colors just to see how much more often Damnation is played or needed). Black recently got Bontu's last reckoning and white got Settle the wreckage. Regarding single target removals: white has Path to Exile while Black has: Fatal Push, Doom blade, Go for the throat, Vendetta, Murderous Cut, Ultimate price. Black has lifegaining effects and tokens just like white. But black also has access to powerful discard mechanisms which white doesn't. By that logic and and a given aggro-control continuoum that I layed out beforehand white color should be somewhat faster then black. But that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact: goryo's vengenance breaks the pattern of speed: when combined with right cards it makes an explosively fast deck and there is no instance of white cards or combos able to do the same except for puresteel paladin combo recently. Also, equipment storm deck was never able to kill on turn 1 like grixis reanimator could.
Let's return to blue color and its cantrips. Looking at the aggro continuoum: red is the fastest (aggro), blue should be the slowest (control), so if white is in the middle it should be tempo. But that is not the case. Tempo is usually associated with cantrips that belong to blue color. I argue that blue color simbolicaly stole the cantrips from white color. White color should be filled with one mana cantrips and not the blue color. I guess this is a remnant of the past when color paradigm was made at the inception of the game. This is way in modern mainboards there is na overpresence of blue cantrips and consequently blue color in certain decks in general and also underpresence of white color.
Except a few white planeswalkers, white color lacks emblamatic win conditions. Red has bolt, green has tarmogoyf, blue has snapcaster mage, black is a bit dispersed (sahdow, gurmag, griselbrand). On a side note, Black had powerful planeswalkers even before white (Liliana of the veil, liliana, the last hope. Path to exile is emblamatic but is not a win condition.
I articulated the problem, so I must offer a solution as well. Here are my suggestions and food for thought for:
1.To gradually introduce to modern play cheap (one mana) white cantrips.
2.Cheap single-target instant removals akin to Path to exile, Fatal push, Doomblade should be added to white color cardpool.
3.An introduction of small white creatures that are very troublesome under certain conditions.
4.Mana acceleration could be added to white color but in a weaker form than the one that green possess. Paying life for gaining mana could be added as activated ability to a specific white creature.
5.There is no need of looking at paying life for drawing cards as a necromantic or demonic deed (Griselbrand, Yawgmoth's bargain, Dark confidant, Phyrexian Arena). Sacrificing life to gain valuable insight can be a noble thing.
6.Angels and all the divine folk can be lofty and untroubled in their skies but one can say that their retribution is final and they easily become judgemental. That can be used as a mechanism and a flavor and a mechanism. If an opponent somehow damages the white player (reduces his or hers life total, destroys his creature, makes him or her discard cards), there are white cards that make swift and even greater damage back.
7.Following the divine theme, modern white card pool could be enchanced by some uncounterable cards.
Some of the examples I suggest.