In my area, the people who WOULD be running extirpates, are playing faries and one other revillark (but not as good a build as the ones we've got =P )...and one mannequin, but he's just a silly guy. Also have the mono-R Aggro/burn deck, a friend who is extremely unpredictable because he brings whatever he builds (he can go from 2nd place one week to last place the next) 2 Guys play kithkin or White Weenie.
What is ya'lls meta and how do yall handle it?
I think the deck I've seen the most recently is r/g big mana. There's been some kithkin, and I'm sure I'll see g/x warriors and rogues soon. Faeries are popular too, and there's an occasional u control deck (teachings, pickles). I've seen skred red a couple of times. The rock has shown up occasionally as well.
I plan on playing 2 take possessions in my sb to deal with u control.
I think big mana is a good match-up preboard, but I'm unsure on how to deal with land destruction from their board in games 2 and 3. I play r/g big mana, and I board in 4 acid moss and 3 primal commands against reveillark. The commands shuffle lark's gy into their deck and bounce lark's lands. If I get 2-3 of these 7 cards in a game, it can swing the tempo in my direction pretty fast.
Against kithkin, I'd board in sower of temptation.
Don't have enough experience with g/x warriors or rogues to really understand those match-ups.
Yeah, the lark combo decks are good, but not unbeatable.
I think it's best to play against the deck, not against the combo. In other words, don't worry too much about stopping the combo as about winning each game. Don't hold your extirpates until they drop a mirror entity or whatever. That's reactive, and gives your opponent time to win.
Tormod's crypt is not a great sb card imo because it's not as versatile as extirpate, which seems good against both lark and blue counterspell decks. Sudden spoiling (in rogue's sb) seems good against other aggro.
edit: I just reread this post and I forgot about the rock, oh well.
re: sideboarding
Comments/criticisms are most definitely welcome; these are just my thoughts about the two gpt japanese sideboards.
Takao seems to have expected big mana, imo judging from his picks. Although teferi's moat is a strong pick versus warriors, kithkin, and rogues
Here's Takao's original sb:
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (strong versus control, and can protect combo from disruption if going off on your turn)
2 Draining Whelk (strong versus big mana)
2 Sower of Temptation (strong versus big mana/warriors/kithkin)
1 Stonecloaker (strong versus mirror)
3 Teferi's Moat (strong versus mb rogues, kithkin, and mono g warriors)
1 Mystical Teachings (board in w/stonecloaker/teferi/draining whelk)
4 Flashfreeze (strong versus rg big mana/gx warriors)
Tsubasa seemed to board more heavily against control:
3 Sower of Temptation (see above)
2 Take Possession (? strong versus mirror?, aggro? this one seems a bit odd to me)
4 Teferi's Moat (see above)
2 Tormod's Crypt (strong versus mirror/mannequin)
1 Academy Ruins (use with mindstone? vs control)
3 Jace Beleren (vs control)
I'm really thinking about these sbs because I think they are pretty strong, especially Takao's b/c my meta has a lot of rg big mana.
The decks already pack a lot of aggro answers in condemn/wrath. Boarding in moat, ideally you could go t1/2 condemn, accelerate into t3/4 wrath, then t4/5 teferi's moat, all while bouncing their creatures
Conspicuously absent in either player's md/sb is aven riftwatcher, a blink staple, and something many on this forum have been suggesting. I think, looking at their decks, that they just had other plans vs. aggro. Take Possession, Sower, and Draining Whelk are perhaps stronger choices b/c they net you 2 for 1.
Finally, they have no answers for the much-touted extirpate. Takao could have boarded -3 bonded fetch, -2 body double for +3 teferi's moat +2 sower versus mb rogues w/extirpate (imo a deck highly likely to board extirpate), then follow the above plan of basically playing defensively into an accelerated wrath/moat/sower.
I like Teferi as a way to protect the combo as it goes off from bounce or crib swap, etc. Worth a spot in SB imo.
Willbender seems the most versatile answer to gy hate. It stops Tormod's Crypt/CARD] and Extirpate, plus many other threats to the combo, but it's slow.
I'm thinking more about it, and I think it's probably a bad strategy to board in answers for extirpate/tormod's crypt like pull from eternity and willbender. The main problem is that you must draw your answer before they play their card, otherwise it becomes a dead card. The fact that they will likely board in 4 extirpates to our 3 answers (as extirpate is a more useful card, worthy of 4 sb slots, while we would only want to devote 3) means that they have a better chance of drawing their extirpate first.
It seems like those sb would be better devoted to cards that made the matches vs. decks likely to board extirpate better. Most likely this means mb rogues and the rock/doran. They board in extirpate, we board out body double and a reveillark for riftwatchers/draining whelk and go straight blink. I think it is too our advantage if they board in extirpate to disrupt our combo, we want them boarding out threats for cards that are less optimal versus a non-combo blink deck.
I haven't assembled all the pieces yet, but I'm also considering running deserts md. I'm worried about faeries and rogues, and deserts seem good against those 2, although too bad they don't prevent rogue's prowl.
Although perhaps the condemns can hold them off long enough to ***.
By the way, I think the mystical teachings in Takao's sb (1st post) is such a cool idea. I'm totally stealing it. By playing mystical teachings, he can fill his sb with 1- and 2-ofs with flash, and side them in with teachings to effectively create another copy, plus he can fetch out blink or condemn. With Teferi, he can suss out combo pieces. Versus the mirror (or mannequin), it seems cool to be able to only have to devote one sb slot to stonecloaker, and then side in teachings with it so one has more of a chance to draw it.
I see most people are dropping the teachings from the board, but I think it's an interesting strategy.
Extirpate doesnt completely destroy this deck. The deck has a lot of strengths still going for it. Not to mention that the Reveillark has to die or be sacked before any of this matters. We do have several flyers that are dealing damage in the deck, just go the tempo route of winning. Extirpate is just not that good of a card IMO because it never has an effect on the board AND requires some other effect or card to put the target you want into your opponent's 'yard (opposed to say Cranial Extraction for instance).
I'd be more concerned with the jester's cap attached to a goblin personally, if they nab all of the body doubles its going to be a long game for us.
It's too bad Earwig Squad says "target opponent" on it, otherwise we could use Willbender on it as well.
I agree Willbender looks interesting. I was a little confused on how it might interact with Extirpate, so I looked it up.
Just FYI, the act of morphing does not use the stack, but Willbender's triggered ability does use the stack.
However, you can still use willbender to change extirpate's target.
502.58.Ruling.2 - [Split Second] does not prevent triggered abilities from triggering and being put on the stack. [Time Spiral FAQ 2006/08/30]
I don't know whether I think it's worth it to pack Willbender in the sb, or whether we should just try to win without it, but it would work. I think it would also work against tormod's crypt, direct damage in d-storm, and some of the other things we were thinking about using pull from eternity or trickbind for. It also would be funny to use against makeshift mannequin, mannequinning our varks back.
I just wanted to respond to a post a page ago about the "average player"...
The average player probably does not read mtgsalvation. The people on this forum are a self-selected group of people who want to play mtg more competitively, i.e. the people on this forum are probably better.
I also wanted to chime in on this fnm nonsense. First, fnms are different in different places. Maybe at your shop the competition is not that good, but perhaps at mine there are many strong players. It's assumption and generalizing from one experience to many (a mistake).
Second, even with competitive players, one probably shouldn't go to fnms to test. Go to have fun, for the challenge, but not to improve your deck. You might learn something, but most likely following a rigid, programmatic testing regiment like Babbler is probably going to give you more info.
I think your brother is right to an extent. Like Blinking Spirit said, people have to be motivated to do anything.
However, I think there is some altruistic behavior that is done without the intention of netting warm feelings inside.
Let's say I'm on a safari in the jungle far away from where I live. As I'm walking, I come across a man drowning in quicksand. I grab a branch from the ground and help him out. When the man thanks me, I say, "No problem, you would have done the same for me."
People help each other out based on pretty flimsy promises. I'm never going to see this guy again, or be in the jungle probably, the likelihood of getting help in a similar situation for me is low. Because the promise of pay-off is so low, I think this is pretty close to the kind of altruism Zith is talking about.
Double post merged.
The happiness machine is sort of a weird thought experiment. It seems like if occasional unhappiness is necessary for maximum happiness, couldn't I program the machine to do that? If the ultimate happiness is helping others, couldn't I program the machine to simulate that feeling?
I can't really see any reason not to go into the machine, providing it worked as advertised.
I think the deck I've seen the most recently is r/g big mana. There's been some kithkin, and I'm sure I'll see g/x warriors and rogues soon. Faeries are popular too, and there's an occasional u control deck (teachings, pickles). I've seen skred red a couple of times. The rock has shown up occasionally as well.
I plan on playing 2 take possessions in my sb to deal with u control.
I think big mana is a good match-up preboard, but I'm unsure on how to deal with land destruction from their board in games 2 and 3. I play r/g big mana, and I board in 4 acid moss and 3 primal commands against reveillark. The commands shuffle lark's gy into their deck and bounce lark's lands. If I get 2-3 of these 7 cards in a game, it can swing the tempo in my direction pretty fast.
Against kithkin, I'd board in sower of temptation.
Don't have enough experience with g/x warriors or rogues to really understand those match-ups.
I think it's best to play against the deck, not against the combo. In other words, don't worry too much about stopping the combo as about winning each game. Don't hold your extirpates until they drop a mirror entity or whatever. That's reactive, and gives your opponent time to win.
Tormod's crypt is not a great sb card imo because it's not as versatile as extirpate, which seems good against both lark and blue counterspell decks. Sudden spoiling (in rogue's sb) seems good against other aggro.
re: sideboarding
Comments/criticisms are most definitely welcome; these are just my thoughts about the two gpt japanese sideboards.
Takao seems to have expected big mana, imo judging from his picks. Although teferi's moat is a strong pick versus warriors, kithkin, and rogues
Here's Takao's original sb:
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (strong versus control, and can protect combo from disruption if going off on your turn)
2 Draining Whelk (strong versus big mana)
2 Sower of Temptation (strong versus big mana/warriors/kithkin)
1 Stonecloaker (strong versus mirror)
3 Teferi's Moat (strong versus mb rogues, kithkin, and mono g warriors)
1 Mystical Teachings (board in w/stonecloaker/teferi/draining whelk)
4 Flashfreeze (strong versus rg big mana/gx warriors)
Tsubasa seemed to board more heavily against control:
3 Sower of Temptation (see above)
2 Take Possession (? strong versus mirror?, aggro? this one seems a bit odd to me)
4 Teferi's Moat (see above)
2 Tormod's Crypt (strong versus mirror/mannequin)
1 Academy Ruins (use with mindstone? vs control)
3 Jace Beleren (vs control)
I'm really thinking about these sbs because I think they are pretty strong, especially Takao's b/c my meta has a lot of rg big mana.
The decks already pack a lot of aggro answers in condemn/wrath. Boarding in moat, ideally you could go t1/2 condemn, accelerate into t3/4 wrath, then t4/5 teferi's moat, all while bouncing their creatures
Conspicuously absent in either player's md/sb is aven riftwatcher, a blink staple, and something many on this forum have been suggesting. I think, looking at their decks, that they just had other plans vs. aggro. Take Possession, Sower, and Draining Whelk are perhaps stronger choices b/c they net you 2 for 1.
Finally, they have no answers for the much-touted extirpate. Takao could have boarded -3 bonded fetch, -2 body double for +3 teferi's moat +2 sower versus mb rogues w/extirpate (imo a deck highly likely to board extirpate), then follow the above plan of basically playing defensively into an accelerated wrath/moat/sower.
I like Teferi as a way to protect the combo as it goes off from bounce or crib swap, etc. Worth a spot in SB imo.
Willbender seems the most versatile answer to gy hate. It stops Tormod's Crypt/CARD] and Extirpate, plus many other threats to the combo, but it's slow.
I'm thinking more about it, and I think it's probably a bad strategy to board in answers for extirpate/tormod's crypt like pull from eternity and willbender. The main problem is that you must draw your answer before they play their card, otherwise it becomes a dead card. The fact that they will likely board in 4 extirpates to our 3 answers (as extirpate is a more useful card, worthy of 4 sb slots, while we would only want to devote 3) means that they have a better chance of drawing their extirpate first.
It seems like those sb would be better devoted to cards that made the matches vs. decks likely to board extirpate better. Most likely this means mb rogues and the rock/doran. They board in extirpate, we board out body double and a reveillark for riftwatchers/draining whelk and go straight blink. I think it is too our advantage if they board in extirpate to disrupt our combo, we want them boarding out threats for cards that are less optimal versus a non-combo blink deck.
Although perhaps the condemns can hold them off long enough to ***.
By the way, I think the mystical teachings in Takao's sb (1st post) is such a cool idea. I'm totally stealing it. By playing mystical teachings, he can fill his sb with 1- and 2-ofs with flash, and side them in with teachings to effectively create another copy, plus he can fetch out blink or condemn. With Teferi, he can suss out combo pieces. Versus the mirror (or mannequin), it seems cool to be able to only have to devote one sb slot to stonecloaker, and then side in teachings with it so one has more of a chance to draw it.
I see most people are dropping the teachings from the board, but I think it's an interesting strategy.
It's too bad Earwig Squad says "target opponent" on it, otherwise we could use Willbender on it as well.
Just FYI, the act of morphing does not use the stack, but Willbender's triggered ability does use the stack.
However, you can still use willbender to change extirpate's target.
I don't know whether I think it's worth it to pack Willbender in the sb, or whether we should just try to win without it, but it would work. I think it would also work against tormod's crypt, direct damage in d-storm, and some of the other things we were thinking about using pull from eternity or trickbind for. It also would be funny to use against makeshift mannequin, mannequinning our varks back.
The average player probably does not read mtgsalvation. The people on this forum are a self-selected group of people who want to play mtg more competitively, i.e. the people on this forum are probably better.
I also wanted to chime in on this fnm nonsense. First, fnms are different in different places. Maybe at your shop the competition is not that good, but perhaps at mine there are many strong players. It's assumption and generalizing from one experience to many (a mistake).
Second, even with competitive players, one probably shouldn't go to fnms to test. Go to have fun, for the challenge, but not to improve your deck. You might learn something, but most likely following a rigid, programmatic testing regiment like Babbler is probably going to give you more info.
However, I think there is some altruistic behavior that is done without the intention of netting warm feelings inside.
Let's say I'm on a safari in the jungle far away from where I live. As I'm walking, I come across a man drowning in quicksand. I grab a branch from the ground and help him out. When the man thanks me, I say, "No problem, you would have done the same for me."
People help each other out based on pretty flimsy promises. I'm never going to see this guy again, or be in the jungle probably, the likelihood of getting help in a similar situation for me is low. Because the promise of pay-off is so low, I think this is pretty close to the kind of altruism Zith is talking about.
Double post merged.
The happiness machine is sort of a weird thought experiment. It seems like if occasional unhappiness is necessary for maximum happiness, couldn't I program the machine to do that? If the ultimate happiness is helping others, couldn't I program the machine to simulate that feeling?
I can't really see any reason not to go into the machine, providing it worked as advertised.