Gravespawn is a dead draw mostly. Especially for 5/6 turns ecause 6 is a lot and 5 Zombies too.
What do you think about zombie trailblazer? I am not feeljng it but maybe someone has good experience?
Gravespawn Sovereign exists to capitalize on Zombie tokens more than it does your actual creatures. Tombstone Stairwell is often going to generate more than 5 tokens per every other players turn and given that you cannot attack with those tokens during their turns, you had might as well be doing something with them. There is a lot of token generation to be had in these builds and without haste, attacking with them is off of the table. Even if you intend to use them as death triggers, you might as well tap them down first to reanimate targets.
I'll give you that early game, it's complete junk, but that's why you just use it as discard fodder for a Varina trigger and nab it when it's more useful later. Make tokens, grab Gravespawn. Drop Patriarch's Bidding or Zombie Apocalypse, might as well tap down those summoning sickened Zombies to grab other people's useful stuff anyway. Cast Living Death, might as well return stuff that was initially sacrificed.
At the end of the day, my games have slowly resorted into being decided by my opponent's. If they want to play the fast game, I just going to go cheap and tutor into trying to use the Gravecrawler combos as quickly as possible. If they want to go slower, my games tend to devolve into Tombstone Stairwell interactions or mass reanimate for the win. In all of those cases, Gravespawn Sovereign is immensely more useful than something like Noosegraf Mob.
This seems fair, too. You aren't required to remove your board presence to benefit from Muse, it's purely life that it demands. And you can still win the game from 1 life.
It's the only reason this is the sole black deck that I have that doesn't include Phyrexian Arena. I will gladly pay 1 more for the same effect on a recurable, tribe relevant body with the side benefit as acting as an additional Arena for every other Zombie. She can definitely get life hungry, but she's a creature. The ability is easy to turn off with a sacrifice. One of my other decks is Edgar Markovand I would kill for Champion of Dusk to have her ability.
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So is anyone actually leaning out of tribal synergies in favor of these "better but off-theme" options? Consecrated Sphinx is fantastic but once you start considering that and others, the deck is simply much better suited to be a control build that makes zombies with Varina to activate her ability.
The opinions are a bit all over the place in this thread, so I wanted to ask in general if Varina pilots in general prefer the power of bombs like Rooftop Storm and Army of the Damned, or if keeping the overall CMC of the deck low is preferable. My build is roughly 3.25 right now, which feels pretty speedy, but there are probably some more ways to get it down unless it's clear the advantage of running high cost synergy cards is worth keeping it up.
I have seen those non-tribal builds and I have to say, I am unimpressed. If Varina's ability triggered off of ANY attacking creature, or if her token generation cost 0, I'd say it's viable. However, the problem you run into is her ability gets exponentially better for every single Zombie in play and it won't take long before the player realizes that. My experience from watching them evolve is that, slowly, they will introduce additional sources of Zombie token generation, along with lords, and then you just end up with a Zombie tribal deck. Just about every tribal build I have ever seen includes a few non-tribal creatures, so considering Consecrated Sphinx doesn't require you to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
As for where to go with your curve, as I said earlier, it's complicated for us. We aren't Edgar Markov where we get a ton of value for cheap, vanilla creatures. A lot of the 2CC and 1CC Zombies are absolute garbage. Zombies also have a ton of lords. Your initial builds will often immediately find your 3CC slots overburdened with little place to go but up because the better Zombies all cost 3CC or more. I am of the opinion that if you want to lower your curve, your 2CC and 1 CC slots are better dedicated to mana rocks. There are a ton of them to pick from.
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Zombie Infestation - since Varina came out, and i've almost never been in a position to take advantage of it's effect---i'm always valuing my hand size and having more options when Varina triggers, especially when her activated ability is so similar.
This is a flexible spot. As I said earlier, not all of your cards are valuable and, sometimes, I'd rather reach further into my deck with an additional Varina trigger than hold onto a couple of cards that might be relevant later.
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Tombstone Stairwell - need to be more strategic when this is deployed...haven't seen it's true power yet and hope to get it online in my favor soon.
Your best use of this behemoth is when you have two board conditions present at the same time. One, you need five or more creatures in your cemetery. The more, the better. Two, you need any of the Gravecrawler combo triggers other than the ones that require a hard cast: ie. Vengeful Dead, Diregraf Captain, Wayward Servant, Plague Belcher, etc. You can use it for other things too on your own turn, but where it gets silly is when those triggers are activating from putting those tokens into play or death.
As for the draw issue, Consecrated Sphinx could be a valuable addition. However, I disagree with Nezehal, Primal Tide. The particular ability that it has is best served when played as early as possible. 7CC is a lot of mana for an effect I would have rather had significantly earlier in the game. The only way I'd consider it is if you were already running Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, Consecrated Sphinx, and then had an additional spot for it.
If we are considering Undead Augur, which I will preface by saying I agree its an autoinclude, I don't see why we wouldn't return to Graveborn Muse as well. Augur, like Archive, requires extra stuff to see a return. You either have to be killing off your own things or counting on your opponent to do it for you. Muse costs 2 more, but will at bare minimum, act as Phyrexian Arena on a body with nothing but itself in play. Even an additional Zombie token next to her nets you 3 cards immediately after your draw phase. Having the Muse in play with even just one other Zombie is hardly what I would call win more and gives you the same return as Sylvan Library for a fraction of the price.
Smothering Tithe - going to be good with your wheels, but I don't run any, and haven't wanted to spend 4 mana just to set up future turns
Tithe tends to be more explosive if you are running a suite of tutors and mana rocks. If you can swing it, the goal is to get it out before T4. It's also about the best option Esper can hope for to create any sort of ramp.
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I mean, I'm not hugely convinced by Archive. Given how much it costs, I'd rather have something else, and without Varina (or some other existing draw engine) it does nothing for 5. And at present, I'm pretty happy with hand size through different stages of the game, I can keep a good sized grip, so it doesn't strike me as being totally necessary. I'd prefer a reliable draw engine that doesn't require anything else in play to work.
We are in the disadvantageous position of being in black, but being unable to play Necropotence because we are one of the few decks that is going to consistently trigger it's downside. We are also at a disadvantage without green because Sylvan Library is off of the table. Nearly all of our options are only reliable when they interact with existing pieces. My experience remains that Varina ditches so many of her own resources while also playing cards every turn that it has to be addressed or you feel like you are topdecking the whole game.
My only problem with Infestation was that it’s hard keeping enough cards in hand to profitably churn with Varina, so discarding cards without drawing hurts. I did have one spectacular game with it though, where I had our Rooftop, Kindred, and something else drawing me cards, and I would pitch two cards to make a zombie and draw two until I hit an actual zombie, cast it, draw 2 and keep going. Drew the whole deck.
I'll fully disclose that I run the main tutors in my own build, so maybe that's why I bank on having draw in some capacity, but I feel like you had might as well just assume that you will have some type of draw because, without it, you are probably going to lose with Varina anyway. Not having any draw online, Zombie Infestation in play or even some other card in play that fills its slot, is going to be an extremely difficult position to overcome because she will only ever loot on her own and the Zombie tokens she will generate from doing so are too insignificant to eliminate three players in combat. Between that and playing your own cards on your turns, you are, inevitably, going to run dry. I tend to lean heavily into drawing and, to be honest, I still feel like it's not enough. Undead Augur, especially if you are fortunate enough to combo it with Tombstone Stairwell, is going to help, but I'd still like even more.
Not all cards are going to be useful, and as I only run two permanents that even create a limitless handsize, I tend to assume that I have to discard beyond 7. If you are going to be pitching the worst options anyway during your end phase, might as well make more Zombies out of it.
Yeah, I've looked at Zombie Infestation, and even had it in here for a tiny bit. I didn't really give it a full run, so it could well give more value than what I saw while it was here. I'd probably cut Graf Harvest for it, if anything. Menace is nice, but I'm almost never going to exile creatures from my yard. I like Infestation is instant speed, I like that the token enters untapped. The only issue I have with going all in on discard is being able to recur non-zombie spells; I have nothing here that can do it. I've considered Possessed Skaab or Dralnu, Lich Lord, but both are at that coveted 5CMC slot (see below). Putrid Imp isn't necessarily in here as a discard outlet; it happens to be a low costed zombie with potential evasion that curves into Varina's effect without her having to swing personally. The discard outlet is a sometimes happy coincidence, far from something I'm building around. I can work around the threshold effect with Varina's exile trigger, too.
I figured it wasn't just a discard outlet. I merely brought it up to highlight an existing discard synergy slot, albeit one with another role, that does less than Zombie Infestation. This might be a difference in deck design philosophy, but coming from a former Brago, King Eternal, I tend to focus early game drops in mana rocks with any deck that touches UW, outside of Bant. This has been especially true for me with Varina because a lot of the 1CC and 2CC Zombies have historically been complete garbage. There was once a time when your best option for an Eternal format Zombie tribal deck for a 1CC was Festering Goblin or Sarcomancy. Those days have gotten better, but the majority of the "scary" Zombies cost 3CC, 4CC, and 5CC. As a result, I prefer to ramp early rather than dedicate a lot of slots to "beatstick" Zombies. That early drop strategy, in my opinion, works better for Edgar Markov.
Market is Smothering Tithe #2, and they're both valued mana bursts, considering I don't have a rock package here.
Definitely a difference in design philosophy. My experience has been that mana rocks are the way to go because my 1CC and 2CC slots aren't being populated by many Zombies. If Black Market works, keep it.
As for the comparison between Smothering Tithe and Black Market, I see where you are coming from, but I think they are very different. For one, Smothering Tithe produces effectively produces any color of mana, which I greatly prefer over Black Market producing only B. Smothering Tithe also generates that mana through the natural progression of the game and is more punishing early in the game. T1 Sol Ring/Mana Crypt and T2 Plains/Dual, which is where I prefer to get into my ramp, into Smothering Tithe is a bad day for everyone else and you don't have to do anything other than set it and forget it. Black Market can sort of do that, but only if your opponents like crashing their creatures into things or destroying a lot of things themselves. More often, you are going to want to drop Black Market when you can generate a lot of charge counters yourself, which requires more set-up because that is often going to mean needing more than 5 mana accessible at that time.
I prefer Rooftop Storm in that slot because paying 6 mana into it still allows you to dump Zombies that could have been dropped in the same turn. Like Smothering Tithe, ramping into it in the early game is also a great position to be in. Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to do because it costs 6CC.
I wouldn't have recommended it anyway. I brought up those two cards because they represent why Black Market is often played, for the same reason Mana Echoes sees play in only some decks that could technically slot it in. They are expensive cards that produce very specific mana, a lot of it mind you, and best function when backed up by cards that can make use of the excess mana. If your average mana cost is between 3 and 4 mana, and you aren't running those X cards/effects, its extra mana that you often aren't going to need.
The Archfiend is legitimately nuts, right? I definitely don't see it played as much as it deserves. Also, I have the same issues at 5CMC to be honest. I have 7 creatures at that slot myself, and with a reasonably lean mana package it's hard to justify anything more at that slot.
Ghoulcaller Gisa is where I am leaning right now. Once upon a time, I ran Ghoulcaller Gisa as a monoblack Zombie commander, which is part of the reason I've held onto her. However, with the addition of U and W, I have far more ways to create those same tokens than I ever had in that monoblack deck. I'm not certain that she is quite "cutting the mustard" anymore.
I see what you’re saying with Urborg and I don’t disagree. The only problem I have there (and it has nothing to do with this deck) is that then I have a fair amount of value tied up in a coffers I can’t use, partially because I have enough decks and I have no intentions of building mono black anytime soon. I could use it as trade but I am loath to, as they’re not easy to come by. I’ll think about it.
I’d been thinking about dropping Lili too. She’s limited in a few ways that make her less than ideal, and the Master is probably the last lord I definitely want in here.
The rest of your recommendations, while generally valuable, do make up a considerable monetary investment, and I’d love to be able to manage that, but at present I’m not able to front that sort of cash. Titan is enormously overpriced at present, as is the Archive (my thoughts on it are mixed anyway, it seems like a win more card). Pretty sure Grotto is up over 10 NZD for an uncommon land too, and confluence and brass are much the same. I get what you’re heading for, and I do appreciate the suggestion, but it’s currently out of reach for me.
Edit - I hope this doesn’t sound rude, I certainly don’t mean it to. I’m just building as best I can within the limitations RL has imposed on me, and regardless of monetary value I can definitely see the principles of deck building you’re suggesting.
There is no offense to be taken. I'm aware you are on a budget, but I made the recommendations primarily because this is a primer thread and I think it's important to bring up those cards for people who aren't restrained by the same monetary constraints.
With that said, I disagree regarding Alhammarret's Archive. It's a redundant card that serves the same purpose that Kindred Discovery does, albeit ONLY if Varina is in play. It turns Varina into a real card advantage engine. She needs the help because she is a commander that, let's be honest, is a weaker version of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant in immediate function. Without support, she is designed to pitch cards to generate tokens at the cost of 2. Even with the support of Zombie tribal, she won't be as efficient at the same tasks as Sidisi with the might of milling shenanigans like Mesmeric Orb, Embalmer's Tools,Altar of Dementia, etc. Sidisi does that for free, doesn't require any attacks with its support package, and has access to the same artifact/enchantment hate in Sultai. What sets Varina apart is that, with the appropriate support of these draw enablers, she creates far more card advantage than Sidisi can with the same tribal backing.
Overall, I'd agree with you if Varina was in the 99, but it's the one consistent creature that you can count upon. If you are choosing to introduce Kindred Discovery, and have no monetary constraints, I see no reason why Archive shouldn't be included for redundancy. The reality is Kindred Discovery is going to attract attention the moment you drop it, I mean it has to or you will run away with the game, and someone is going to remove it. You need redundant effects, especially when not having something with heavy draw significantly weakens Varina. I'd much rather have a superior, Zombie tribal version of Edric, Spymaster of Trest than what Varina starts out as. If cost weren't a factor, I'd argue that Alhammarret's Archive is more deserving of a 5CC slot than Black Market, a card with diminishing returns without something like Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire, or Open the Graves, which creates a new vector for the Gravecrawler combo, however it's in a form that cannot win the game on the spot.
On a side note, I've noticed that you've increasingly gone into this discard theme. In that case, I'd recommend going back and taking a second look at Zombie Infestation. I really don't know what to take out for it, perhaps Dreadhorde Invasion, but I'd much rather be tossing cards to make Zombies, which fuels your win-condition, than ditching cards to give Putrid Imp flying.
EDIT: Correction, I thought it was a primer and now see it was not tagged as such. Still, I think it's valuable to bring up those more expensive options for those with the resources. I also wanted to add that Archfiend of Ifnir is a far more powerful addition than I initially gave it credit for. I've playtested it in a couple of games and having both it and Varina in play can do a significant amount of damage to the other sides board presence. Only issue I am having is that 5CC slot for creatures is a little full and it's hard to figure out what to remove for it. I've contemplated taking a break from Ghoulcaller Gisa to test the Archfiend out more.
So, after seeing some fairly thorough assessment through the newly implemented random deck discussion thread, I've made some changes to the basic infrastructure of the deck. There's still a couple of flex spots, but here's whats changed for now:
In:
Exotic Orchard - enters untapped, and gives me colour options, 2 of which are pretty commonly played.
Arcane Sanctum - Standard colour fixer, should do just fine.
Path of Ancestry - I took this out of Edgar Markov, it's of more use to me here. ETB tapped, but the scry will do nicely.
Notion Rain - Sculpted draw, and fills my yard if needed. Should do fine, even if it doesn't quite play with Archfiend of Ifnir the way I'd like it to.
Frantic Search - Similar to above, but mana efficient and instant speed.
I'll wait and see what comes out of WAR before any further changes, but happy with these ones.
I'd leave Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in your deck. 16 of your lands are incapable of generating B without a Chromatic Lantern online. The Tomb instantly turns any of your islands into Underground Sea, your Plains into Scrubland, turns Port Town into Arcane Sanctum, and allows your utility lands to tap for B. That's a lot of additional value in an arguably more difficult card to eliminate from the battlefield than Chromatic Lantern. You were right to ditch Cabal Coffers, and Expedition Map too, but I feel getting rid of the Tomb is tossing the baby out with the bathwater. That card does a significant amount on it's own, fully optimized manabase or not.
Also, I'd drop Liliana, Heretical Healer for Zombie Master upon bringing the Tomb back. Varina, Lich Queen needs you to be attacking to provide value to her ability. You are going to want evasion and any type of landwalk allows you to attack unopposed. If a single player has the Tomb out, while you have Zombie Master in play, everyone is food for the horde. Even without the Tomb in play, at least one opponent is likely to have something that counts as a Swamp in play. You only need one valid target for Varina to trigger. Every once in a while, that regenerate ability that all Zombies gains from the Master is relevant too.
If you can get City of Brass and Mana Confluence, I think your opinion on Havengul Lich will change. It's a value engine with casting ETB effects from the graveyard and it only gets better when someone sitting at the table is playing green. Casting your opponent's Acidic Slime, Bane of Progress, Reclamation Sage, and any other of the plethora of ETB effects makes Havengul Lich a value engine and that's without taking into consideration it's duplication of activated abilities. Those interactions are extremely valuable in Esper, where most of your artifact and enchantment hate is going to be a one-time cast. I value those interactions so much that I'd even recommend Gravespawn Sovereign if you can find one. Use your untapped tokens, even if you are getting them each turn from Tombstone Stairwell, to steal valuable creatures with abilities from graveyards.
Also, if you can acquire them, Grave Titan obviously has the potential to generate a ridiculous amount of Zombies. I'll gladly pay 4BB for a 6/6 that also tosses two 2/2 Zombies in just for ETB. I've also been able to get great value out of the new Rot Hulk, which is usually the same as tossing 3 or 4 Zombies into play for 5BB. I love Zombie Apocalypse and Patriarch's Bidding, but I am often looking for 2 or 3 specific Zombies when I cast them. The additional Zombies are just a bonus. Rot Hulk does that, but with a recastable body.
Lastly, if you have them or can find them, Alhammarret's Archive and Reconnaissance. It's a weaker version of Kindred Discovery in terms of draw power, but if it hadn't been older than Varina, I'd almost be inclined to believe that it was designed with Commander 2018 in mind with a prototype that originally had Varina at the helm of the Esper deck. It doubles the only immediate value you generate from Varina's looting ability. Reconnaissance is an absolute staple for Varina. Varina needs the horde to be aggressive to generate value. You aren't always going to have evasion and, to an extent, you are going to want to hold onto those tokens. Reconnaissance lets you be as aggressive as you like without having to worry about that.
EDIT: One more suggestion, again if you have it. Unholy Grotto over Volrath's Stronghold. In my version of Varina, 26 of my 30 creatures are Zombies. The only 4 that aren't are as follows: The Scarab God, Ghoulcaller Gisa, Gisa and Geralf, and Grave Titan. All are great, but none of them really do anything that isn't already done, albeit often in a weaker or more expensive fashion, by another creature with Zombie type. Your ratio of Zombies to non-Zombies is about the same.
Volrath's Stronghold is going to require that you, in most cases, tap three total lands, or use rocks, to put a single creature back on top of your library. That's a pretty hefty mana investment without something like Rooftop Storm or treasure tokens from Smothering Tithe. Unholy Grotto is the same effect for the majority of scenarios within your deck, but at the cost of only tapping two lands. Unholy Grotto is also cheaper for cheating Varina's commander tax.
If you can fit both, great, but I have yet to toss Volrath's Stronghold back into my own deck just because I cannot find a utility land slot I am willing to part with.
Generally, I don’t disagree. The tomb and coffers have more or less proven to be inconsistent and not something the deck needs (at least, short of stacking it with duals, which is something I’ll never afford). I’ve been thinking of swapping them out anyway in favour of more utility and colour variance. I have a few options for colour fixing here and there, and I’ve been tossing up whether it’s worth picking up a Phyrexian Tower now that’s it’s dropped in price some.
Tithe is something I’ve also considered for the deck. It’s devastatingly good, and it’s a nice convenient fixer for colours. Currently I have it in my Bruna build, although being honest it’s probably surplus to requirement there as the deck usually has more land in play than anything it faces down (mono white that ramps well, go figure). I could definitely see sticking it in here. If it’s that popular in standard I won’t pick up another copy, but swapping it out could be very beneficial here.
Thanks for the suggestions:)
After taking a cursory look at your manabase, I 'd start with "tricolored" lands for your deck. That obviously includes Arcane Sanctum, Path of Ancestry, and, if possible (I know you are on a budget), Cavern of Souls. Anything that can tap for all three of your colors with little manipulation on your part, but also isn't so restrictive that you cannot play the majority of your spells (for example Unclaimed Territory). If you are already including pain lands in any capacity, I'd swap them out forCity of Brass and Mana Confluence. They will let you more consistently hit your colors over Caves of Koilos, Underground River, or Adarkar Wastes. There is already a fair amount of life gain in Varina Tribal and I see no reason to run a land that taps for only two of your colors over lands that will tap for all three.
Don't be afraid of the ones that come into play tapped. I love the "fast" variants of lands, including the Shocks, Duals, Checks, etc. I run all of them in my own Varina, but they aren't really that necessary. Zombies are, by their nature, slow because they tend to cost a lot of mana. The majority of your curve is going to start at 3CC because of the sheer number of Lords available to the tribe. There isn't going to be a massive difference between a Turn 1 Watery Grave or Underground Sea over Path of Ancestry or Arcane Sanctum.
Ranks straight up was way too slow and just sucked mostly. Gisa should be able to swell the ranks considerably, she's a limited sac outlet, she should do remarkably in replacement. Obviously the rest of what's here was to rebalance the lands run here. I was leaning heavily into the Coffers theme, without any particular way to fix colour, so it needed adjustment.
There have been some great suggestions come through, in terms of sensible cuts and reasonable to decent adds, so there could well be further changes upcoming.
Typically, Cabal Coffers won't pull the same weight in anything beyond a B deck without a manabase that is on point. You won't get a single return out of it prior to T4, absent an opening hand with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, and that is only if every single land you drop has the Swamp subtype. Given that you'd at least like to get some W and U access in those first turns as well, I'm of the opinion that you'd need to be running more dual lands with the Swamp subtype than you presently are to come close to the benefit a B deck will get from it. Without them, I simply don't think Coffers punches enough above it's own weight to warrant a spot in your manabase.
If you really need the ramp, I'd free up the land slot for something else and grab a Smothering Tithe from somewhere. It's going to grab just as much attention as Cabal Coffers from your opponents anyway. Tithe has exploded in value in the last two weeks and might be hard to come by, but even if it's outside of your budget, I'd still just drop the Coffers entirely. I think if you look at the statistic behind your manabase, you will find that in the majority of scenarios, Coffers is just going to be a tremendously slow card.
14 of your 37 lands (excluding Cabal Coffers) will count towards a Swamp trigger. That is a much smaller average than the 22 to 26 lands that will normally count in a B deck. The only way Coffers consistently seems to work in your favor is if you can combo it with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but that has some problems. It requires you to A). draw/tutor it, B). count on your opponent playing it if you cannot, and C). avoid land removal. B decks have the same latter problem, but those decks know the removal is coming at their Coffers because the Tomb is redundant with the majority of their lands. A good opponent is going to recognize that because you are playing a three-color deck with a less consistent manabase (high number of basics), the Tomb is the more valuable target.
Gravespawn Sovereign exists to capitalize on Zombie tokens more than it does your actual creatures. Tombstone Stairwell is often going to generate more than 5 tokens per every other players turn and given that you cannot attack with those tokens during their turns, you had might as well be doing something with them. There is a lot of token generation to be had in these builds and without haste, attacking with them is off of the table. Even if you intend to use them as death triggers, you might as well tap them down first to reanimate targets.
I'll give you that early game, it's complete junk, but that's why you just use it as discard fodder for a Varina trigger and nab it when it's more useful later. Make tokens, grab Gravespawn. Drop Patriarch's Bidding or Zombie Apocalypse, might as well tap down those summoning sickened Zombies to grab other people's useful stuff anyway. Cast Living Death, might as well return stuff that was initially sacrificed.
At the end of the day, my games have slowly resorted into being decided by my opponent's. If they want to play the fast game, I just going to go cheap and tutor into trying to use the Gravecrawler combos as quickly as possible. If they want to go slower, my games tend to devolve into Tombstone Stairwell interactions or mass reanimate for the win. In all of those cases, Gravespawn Sovereign is immensely more useful than something like Noosegraf Mob.
It's the only reason this is the sole black deck that I have that doesn't include Phyrexian Arena. I will gladly pay 1 more for the same effect on a recurable, tribe relevant body with the side benefit as acting as an additional Arena for every other Zombie. She can definitely get life hungry, but she's a creature. The ability is easy to turn off with a sacrifice. One of my other decks is Edgar Markovand I would kill for Champion of Dusk to have her ability.
I have seen those non-tribal builds and I have to say, I am unimpressed. If Varina's ability triggered off of ANY attacking creature, or if her token generation cost 0, I'd say it's viable. However, the problem you run into is her ability gets exponentially better for every single Zombie in play and it won't take long before the player realizes that. My experience from watching them evolve is that, slowly, they will introduce additional sources of Zombie token generation, along with lords, and then you just end up with a Zombie tribal deck. Just about every tribal build I have ever seen includes a few non-tribal creatures, so considering Consecrated Sphinx doesn't require you to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
As for where to go with your curve, as I said earlier, it's complicated for us. We aren't Edgar Markov where we get a ton of value for cheap, vanilla creatures. A lot of the 2CC and 1CC Zombies are absolute garbage. Zombies also have a ton of lords. Your initial builds will often immediately find your 3CC slots overburdened with little place to go but up because the better Zombies all cost 3CC or more. I am of the opinion that if you want to lower your curve, your 2CC and 1 CC slots are better dedicated to mana rocks. There are a ton of them to pick from.
This is a flexible spot. As I said earlier, not all of your cards are valuable and, sometimes, I'd rather reach further into my deck with an additional Varina trigger than hold onto a couple of cards that might be relevant later.
Your best use of this behemoth is when you have two board conditions present at the same time. One, you need five or more creatures in your cemetery. The more, the better. Two, you need any of the Gravecrawler combo triggers other than the ones that require a hard cast: ie. Vengeful Dead, Diregraf Captain, Wayward Servant, Plague Belcher, etc. You can use it for other things too on your own turn, but where it gets silly is when those triggers are activating from putting those tokens into play or death.
As for the draw issue, Consecrated Sphinx could be a valuable addition. However, I disagree with Nezehal, Primal Tide. The particular ability that it has is best served when played as early as possible. 7CC is a lot of mana for an effect I would have rather had significantly earlier in the game. The only way I'd consider it is if you were already running Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, Consecrated Sphinx, and then had an additional spot for it.
If we are considering Undead Augur, which I will preface by saying I agree its an autoinclude, I don't see why we wouldn't return to Graveborn Muse as well. Augur, like Archive, requires extra stuff to see a return. You either have to be killing off your own things or counting on your opponent to do it for you. Muse costs 2 more, but will at bare minimum, act as Phyrexian Arena on a body with nothing but itself in play. Even an additional Zombie token next to her nets you 3 cards immediately after your draw phase. Having the Muse in play with even just one other Zombie is hardly what I would call win more and gives you the same return as Sylvan Library for a fraction of the price.
Tithe tends to be more explosive if you are running a suite of tutors and mana rocks. If you can swing it, the goal is to get it out before T4. It's also about the best option Esper can hope for to create any sort of ramp.
We are in the disadvantageous position of being in black, but being unable to play Necropotence because we are one of the few decks that is going to consistently trigger it's downside. We are also at a disadvantage without green because Sylvan Library is off of the table. Nearly all of our options are only reliable when they interact with existing pieces. My experience remains that Varina ditches so many of her own resources while also playing cards every turn that it has to be addressed or you feel like you are topdecking the whole game.
I'll fully disclose that I run the main tutors in my own build, so maybe that's why I bank on having draw in some capacity, but I feel like you had might as well just assume that you will have some type of draw because, without it, you are probably going to lose with Varina anyway. Not having any draw online, Zombie Infestation in play or even some other card in play that fills its slot, is going to be an extremely difficult position to overcome because she will only ever loot on her own and the Zombie tokens she will generate from doing so are too insignificant to eliminate three players in combat. Between that and playing your own cards on your turns, you are, inevitably, going to run dry. I tend to lean heavily into drawing and, to be honest, I still feel like it's not enough. Undead Augur, especially if you are fortunate enough to combo it with Tombstone Stairwell, is going to help, but I'd still like even more.
Not all cards are going to be useful, and as I only run two permanents that even create a limitless handsize, I tend to assume that I have to discard beyond 7. If you are going to be pitching the worst options anyway during your end phase, might as well make more Zombies out of it.
I figured it wasn't just a discard outlet. I merely brought it up to highlight an existing discard synergy slot, albeit one with another role, that does less than Zombie Infestation. This might be a difference in deck design philosophy, but coming from a former Brago, King Eternal, I tend to focus early game drops in mana rocks with any deck that touches UW, outside of Bant. This has been especially true for me with Varina because a lot of the 1CC and 2CC Zombies have historically been complete garbage. There was once a time when your best option for an Eternal format Zombie tribal deck for a 1CC was Festering Goblin or Sarcomancy. Those days have gotten better, but the majority of the "scary" Zombies cost 3CC, 4CC, and 5CC. As a result, I prefer to ramp early rather than dedicate a lot of slots to "beatstick" Zombies. That early drop strategy, in my opinion, works better for Edgar Markov.
Definitely a difference in design philosophy. My experience has been that mana rocks are the way to go because my 1CC and 2CC slots aren't being populated by many Zombies. If Black Market works, keep it.
As for the comparison between Smothering Tithe and Black Market, I see where you are coming from, but I think they are very different. For one, Smothering Tithe produces effectively produces any color of mana, which I greatly prefer over Black Market producing only B. Smothering Tithe also generates that mana through the natural progression of the game and is more punishing early in the game. T1 Sol Ring/Mana Crypt and T2 Plains/Dual, which is where I prefer to get into my ramp, into Smothering Tithe is a bad day for everyone else and you don't have to do anything other than set it and forget it. Black Market can sort of do that, but only if your opponents like crashing their creatures into things or destroying a lot of things themselves. More often, you are going to want to drop Black Market when you can generate a lot of charge counters yourself, which requires more set-up because that is often going to mean needing more than 5 mana accessible at that time.
I prefer Rooftop Storm in that slot because paying 6 mana into it still allows you to dump Zombies that could have been dropped in the same turn. Like Smothering Tithe, ramping into it in the early game is also a great position to be in. Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to do because it costs 6CC.
I wouldn't have recommended it anyway. I brought up those two cards because they represent why Black Market is often played, for the same reason Mana Echoes sees play in only some decks that could technically slot it in. They are expensive cards that produce very specific mana, a lot of it mind you, and best function when backed up by cards that can make use of the excess mana. If your average mana cost is between 3 and 4 mana, and you aren't running those X cards/effects, its extra mana that you often aren't going to need.
This is a tricky problem. I've been fortunate where G dominates my area. You can find Reclamation Sage, Spore Frog, Bane of Progress, and Eternal Witness just about everywhere. My only answer to that has been to depend on removal to force those creatures into the graveyard and to use The Scarab God, Gravespawn Sovereign, and Havengul Lich to use those toolboxes myself.
Ghoulcaller Gisa is where I am leaning right now. Once upon a time, I ran Ghoulcaller Gisa as a monoblack Zombie commander, which is part of the reason I've held onto her. However, with the addition of U and W, I have far more ways to create those same tokens than I ever had in that monoblack deck. I'm not certain that she is quite "cutting the mustard" anymore.
There is no offense to be taken. I'm aware you are on a budget, but I made the recommendations primarily because this is a primer thread and I think it's important to bring up those cards for people who aren't restrained by the same monetary constraints.
With that said, I disagree regarding Alhammarret's Archive. It's a redundant card that serves the same purpose that Kindred Discovery does, albeit ONLY if Varina is in play. It turns Varina into a real card advantage engine. She needs the help because she is a commander that, let's be honest, is a weaker version of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant in immediate function. Without support, she is designed to pitch cards to generate tokens at the cost of 2. Even with the support of Zombie tribal, she won't be as efficient at the same tasks as Sidisi with the might of milling shenanigans like Mesmeric Orb, Embalmer's Tools, Altar of Dementia, etc. Sidisi does that for free, doesn't require any attacks with its support package, and has access to the same artifact/enchantment hate in Sultai. What sets Varina apart is that, with the appropriate support of these draw enablers, she creates far more card advantage than Sidisi can with the same tribal backing.
Overall, I'd agree with you if Varina was in the 99, but it's the one consistent creature that you can count upon. If you are choosing to introduce Kindred Discovery, and have no monetary constraints, I see no reason why Archive shouldn't be included for redundancy. The reality is Kindred Discovery is going to attract attention the moment you drop it, I mean it has to or you will run away with the game, and someone is going to remove it. You need redundant effects, especially when not having something with heavy draw significantly weakens Varina. I'd much rather have a superior, Zombie tribal version of Edric, Spymaster of Trest than what Varina starts out as. If cost weren't a factor, I'd argue that Alhammarret's Archive is more deserving of a 5CC slot than Black Market, a card with diminishing returns without something like Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire, or Open the Graves, which creates a new vector for the Gravecrawler combo, however it's in a form that cannot win the game on the spot.
On a side note, I've noticed that you've increasingly gone into this discard theme. In that case, I'd recommend going back and taking a second look at Zombie Infestation. I really don't know what to take out for it, perhaps Dreadhorde Invasion, but I'd much rather be tossing cards to make Zombies, which fuels your win-condition, than ditching cards to give Putrid Imp flying.
EDIT: Correction, I thought it was a primer and now see it was not tagged as such. Still, I think it's valuable to bring up those more expensive options for those with the resources. I also wanted to add that Archfiend of Ifnir is a far more powerful addition than I initially gave it credit for. I've playtested it in a couple of games and having both it and Varina in play can do a significant amount of damage to the other sides board presence. Only issue I am having is that 5CC slot for creatures is a little full and it's hard to figure out what to remove for it. I've contemplated taking a break from Ghoulcaller Gisa to test the Archfiend out more.
I'd leave Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in your deck. 16 of your lands are incapable of generating B without a Chromatic Lantern online. The Tomb instantly turns any of your islands into Underground Sea, your Plains into Scrubland, turns Port Town into Arcane Sanctum, and allows your utility lands to tap for B. That's a lot of additional value in an arguably more difficult card to eliminate from the battlefield than Chromatic Lantern. You were right to ditch Cabal Coffers, and Expedition Map too, but I feel getting rid of the Tomb is tossing the baby out with the bathwater. That card does a significant amount on it's own, fully optimized manabase or not.
Also, I'd drop Liliana, Heretical Healer for Zombie Master upon bringing the Tomb back. Varina, Lich Queen needs you to be attacking to provide value to her ability. You are going to want evasion and any type of landwalk allows you to attack unopposed. If a single player has the Tomb out, while you have Zombie Master in play, everyone is food for the horde. Even without the Tomb in play, at least one opponent is likely to have something that counts as a Swamp in play. You only need one valid target for Varina to trigger. Every once in a while, that regenerate ability that all Zombies gains from the Master is relevant too.
If you can get City of Brass and Mana Confluence, I think your opinion on Havengul Lich will change. It's a value engine with casting ETB effects from the graveyard and it only gets better when someone sitting at the table is playing green. Casting your opponent's Acidic Slime, Bane of Progress, Reclamation Sage, and any other of the plethora of ETB effects makes Havengul Lich a value engine and that's without taking into consideration it's duplication of activated abilities. Those interactions are extremely valuable in Esper, where most of your artifact and enchantment hate is going to be a one-time cast. I value those interactions so much that I'd even recommend Gravespawn Sovereign if you can find one. Use your untapped tokens, even if you are getting them each turn from Tombstone Stairwell, to steal valuable creatures with abilities from graveyards.
Also, if you can acquire them, Grave Titan obviously has the potential to generate a ridiculous amount of Zombies. I'll gladly pay 4BB for a 6/6 that also tosses two 2/2 Zombies in just for ETB. I've also been able to get great value out of the new Rot Hulk, which is usually the same as tossing 3 or 4 Zombies into play for 5BB. I love Zombie Apocalypse and Patriarch's Bidding, but I am often looking for 2 or 3 specific Zombies when I cast them. The additional Zombies are just a bonus. Rot Hulk does that, but with a recastable body.
Lastly, if you have them or can find them, Alhammarret's Archive and Reconnaissance. It's a weaker version of Kindred Discovery in terms of draw power, but if it hadn't been older than Varina, I'd almost be inclined to believe that it was designed with Commander 2018 in mind with a prototype that originally had Varina at the helm of the Esper deck. It doubles the only immediate value you generate from Varina's looting ability. Reconnaissance is an absolute staple for Varina. Varina needs the horde to be aggressive to generate value. You aren't always going to have evasion and, to an extent, you are going to want to hold onto those tokens. Reconnaissance lets you be as aggressive as you like without having to worry about that.
EDIT: One more suggestion, again if you have it. Unholy Grotto over Volrath's Stronghold. In my version of Varina, 26 of my 30 creatures are Zombies. The only 4 that aren't are as follows: The Scarab God, Ghoulcaller Gisa, Gisa and Geralf, and Grave Titan. All are great, but none of them really do anything that isn't already done, albeit often in a weaker or more expensive fashion, by another creature with Zombie type. Your ratio of Zombies to non-Zombies is about the same.
Volrath's Stronghold is going to require that you, in most cases, tap three total lands, or use rocks, to put a single creature back on top of your library. That's a pretty hefty mana investment without something like Rooftop Storm or treasure tokens from Smothering Tithe. Unholy Grotto is the same effect for the majority of scenarios within your deck, but at the cost of only tapping two lands. Unholy Grotto is also cheaper for cheating Varina's commander tax.
If you can fit both, great, but I have yet to toss Volrath's Stronghold back into my own deck just because I cannot find a utility land slot I am willing to part with.
After taking a cursory look at your manabase, I 'd start with "tricolored" lands for your deck. That obviously includes Arcane Sanctum, Path of Ancestry, and, if possible (I know you are on a budget), Cavern of Souls. Anything that can tap for all three of your colors with little manipulation on your part, but also isn't so restrictive that you cannot play the majority of your spells (for example Unclaimed Territory). If you are already including pain lands in any capacity, I'd swap them out forCity of Brass and Mana Confluence. They will let you more consistently hit your colors over Caves of Koilos, Underground River, or Adarkar Wastes. There is already a fair amount of life gain in Varina Tribal and I see no reason to run a land that taps for only two of your colors over lands that will tap for all three.
Don't be afraid of the ones that come into play tapped. I love the "fast" variants of lands, including the Shocks, Duals, Checks, etc. I run all of them in my own Varina, but they aren't really that necessary. Zombies are, by their nature, slow because they tend to cost a lot of mana. The majority of your curve is going to start at 3CC because of the sheer number of Lords available to the tribe. There isn't going to be a massive difference between a Turn 1 Watery Grave or Underground Sea over Path of Ancestry or Arcane Sanctum.
Typically, Cabal Coffers won't pull the same weight in anything beyond a B deck without a manabase that is on point. You won't get a single return out of it prior to T4, absent an opening hand with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, and that is only if every single land you drop has the Swamp subtype. Given that you'd at least like to get some W and U access in those first turns as well, I'm of the opinion that you'd need to be running more dual lands with the Swamp subtype than you presently are to come close to the benefit a B deck will get from it. Without them, I simply don't think Coffers punches enough above it's own weight to warrant a spot in your manabase.
If you really need the ramp, I'd free up the land slot for something else and grab a Smothering Tithe from somewhere. It's going to grab just as much attention as Cabal Coffers from your opponents anyway. Tithe has exploded in value in the last two weeks and might be hard to come by, but even if it's outside of your budget, I'd still just drop the Coffers entirely. I think if you look at the statistic behind your manabase, you will find that in the majority of scenarios, Coffers is just going to be a tremendously slow card.
14 of your 37 lands (excluding Cabal Coffers) will count towards a Swamp trigger. That is a much smaller average than the 22 to 26 lands that will normally count in a B deck. The only way Coffers consistently seems to work in your favor is if you can combo it with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but that has some problems. It requires you to A). draw/tutor it, B). count on your opponent playing it if you cannot, and C). avoid land removal. B decks have the same latter problem, but those decks know the removal is coming at their Coffers because the Tomb is redundant with the majority of their lands. A good opponent is going to recognize that because you are playing a three-color deck with a less consistent manabase (high number of basics), the Tomb is the more valuable target.