Multani seems decent if you want to ramp into the 7 slot, and can act as a finisher with the right deck (probably the Sultai version, as they may put more stuff in to the graveyard). The fact it has built in recursion and anti-flying is nice.
I'm not necessarily sure how much we should push beyond the 5 slot in general, though. I like having Carnage Tyrant as a 6 drop at least in the sideboard (maybe mainboard depending on the meta), as it's a massive headache for some bad matchups (looking at you Control). Biogenic Ooze is ultra awesome, and it even pumps up Vannifar to a 3/5 the turn it lands, and can easily end games. Lyra is crazy good for the Bant version.
The thing I most enjoy about this deck, though, is you really can adjust / pick what you feel best fits your local meta / arena / Bo1 or Bo3. It doesn't take much adjustment (assuming you own the land, of course), to change between R/W/B, as there is potentially loads of overlap, or some of the creatures you might want are 1 ofs anyway.
In terms of a 7 drop, I feel this is pretty meh. ETB effect sure, but a 7 drop should be a game ender. This probably doesn't do that. I think Pekkala Wurm is much better.
Hmm I'm still trying to hammer out a decent list seeing as how it can very so much. Though I know the 3 spot will be some number of Knight of Autumn, Deputy, and Bugler.
The awkward spot for me is the 4 drops. At the moment then only decent ones that comes to mind are Shalai and Zegana. Not counting Vannifar. Though I may not need more in retrospect.
I don't see a reason to go higher than 5 CMC. Seems like Lyra and Ooze will close out the game fairly easily.
For Bant, the four slot is a bit weak compared to Temur or Sultai. But we have a few options. Shalai isn't really something you wanna sac per se, although not including 1-2 seems *nuts* to me. It's such good value, as it forces your enemy to waste removal on it without a sweeper.
Riverwise Augur is decent in the 4 slot, though, as is mentioned above Tempest Caller. Conclave Cavalier is great, but the only thing that sucks is it might be a bit hard to hardcast if you get it into your hand. I don't think Zagana is so good as a sac target without having explore, though, as you aren't so likely to have +1/+1 counters for the cantrip (although she is a decent finisher).
You could also just go for powerful 4 drops that you don't care about saccing like Vine Mare. It really just depends on the rest of your deck, to be honest.
That version seems quite intriguing. Can you share some details about how it is working? What decks is it beating? What is it struggling with?
Stony Strength has been a really good card for me. To Pod twice in a turn is usually gamebreaking. Krasis hydroïde helps a lot to refuel a hand, gain some life again those red aggro decks. Dagger Caster also helps against all the 2/1 creatures which are around.
Usually I use the Azor, the Lawbringer when I have the board, but afraid of a removal. This way, I keep the board a turn longer, which is usually enough.
I'm struggling with board sweepers, but Krasis helps.
Stony Strength also doubles up as protection for Vannifar against Lava Coil. I was unsure if it was enough value otherwise, though. How many copies do you run?
1) Bant is very resilient, as expected. Between the life gain of the explore package, Knight of Autumn, and deputies of detention, I didn't find it too hard to take a few rounds on the chin while I built up my board. It was easy to disrupt their plans too.
2) Hexproof is awesome (Shalai).
3) I really like Zegana in the 4 slot. Not only is she easily a cantrip w/ Explore creatures, she also can be an 8/8 finisher. At worst, you can just upgrade her for Lyra or Oozes, but she's a threat on her own.
4) This deck has real value 4 drops, might need a couple more ones I'd be willing to wood chipper to Vannifar.
Overall, really fun. I think control would still be my worst matchup, so the sideboard should reflect this (Dive downs, Carnage Tyrants, Unbreakable Formations, maybe Tithe Taker). I think mid range and aggro is a decent matchup for Bant overall.
Has anyone gone up Bant vs Phoenixes yet? It seems amusing to me to trap the lot in prison.
It's an interesting question. I am so afraid of whiffing.
Also relevant is that my one loss on Monday was to Angrath. I have added some answers to planeswalkers since, but Incongruity would help. Bedevil in a Vannifar manabases seems like a fantasy.
Did you add an Assassin's Trophy or Vraska's Contempt? Or did you go the Eldest Reborn / Plaguescrafter route? Thankfully, G/B pretty much gobbles up planeswalkers.
Seems to be of similar thinking to what we've gotten down here. Think he has *wayyy* too much ramp, and I don't really like Sailor of Means in the 3 slot, but definitely works.
Edited in. That's a good point, although I'm not a huge fan of Saffron's deck personally.
I think that's why I marginally edge towards the Bant version -- with Bugler + Incubation, you can actually focus on the combo, but it's not *inherently* necessary to win. Bugler / Incubation can easily pull up a Hydroid Krasis for the win or tempo, for instance, and the explore package can easily pull games for you on their own. But combining them should allow you to resolve Vannifar more often than not in games.
I think this is less true of Black or Red, though, and they want to go more grindy (or smashy I guess it red's case), and Vannifar is just icing on the cake. I think Rhythm of the Wild may be a bit overblown in usefulness outside of the control matchup for Red, though, and not all that reliable, because you have no way to find it in your deck.
Multani seems decent if you want to ramp into the 7 slot, and can act as a finisher with the right deck (probably the Sultai version, as they may put more stuff in to the graveyard). The fact it has built in recursion and anti-flying is nice.
I'm not necessarily sure how much we should push beyond the 5 slot in general, though. I like having Carnage Tyrant as a 6 drop at least in the sideboard (maybe mainboard depending on the meta), as it's a massive headache for some bad matchups (looking at you Control). Biogenic Ooze is ultra awesome, and it even pumps up Vannifar to a 3/5 the turn it lands, and can easily end games. Lyra is crazy good for the Bant version.
The thing I most enjoy about this deck, though, is you really can adjust / pick what you feel best fits your local meta / arena / Bo1 or Bo3. It doesn't take much adjustment (assuming you own the land, of course), to change between R/W/B, as there is potentially loads of overlap, or some of the creatures you might want are 1 ofs anyway.
In terms of a 7 drop, I feel this is pretty meh. ETB effect sure, but a 7 drop should be a game ender. This probably doesn't do that. I think Pekkala Wurm is much better.
For Bant, the four slot is a bit weak compared to Temur or Sultai. But we have a few options. Shalai isn't really something you wanna sac per se, although not including 1-2 seems *nuts* to me. It's such good value, as it forces your enemy to waste removal on it without a sweeper.
Riverwise Augur is decent in the 4 slot, though, as is mentioned above Tempest Caller. Conclave Cavalier is great, but the only thing that sucks is it might be a bit hard to hardcast if you get it into your hand. I don't think Zagana is so good as a sac target without having explore, though, as you aren't so likely to have +1/+1 counters for the cantrip (although she is a decent finisher).
You could also just go for powerful 4 drops that you don't care about saccing like Vine Mare. It really just depends on the rest of your deck, to be honest.
Probably a bit less good are cards like: Bishop of Binding, Civic Stalwart, Dwarven Priest, Frilled Mystic, Golgari Raiders, mperial Aerosaur, Storm Sculptor, World Shaper
Stony Strength also doubles up as protection for Vannifar against Lava Coil. I was unsure if it was enough value otherwise, though. How many copies do you run?
Won handily. Stray observations:
1) Bant is very resilient, as expected. Between the life gain of the explore package, Knight of Autumn, and deputies of detention, I didn't find it too hard to take a few rounds on the chin while I built up my board. It was easy to disrupt their plans too.
2) Hexproof is awesome (Shalai).
3) I really like Zegana in the 4 slot. Not only is she easily a cantrip w/ Explore creatures, she also can be an 8/8 finisher. At worst, you can just upgrade her for Lyra or Oozes, but she's a threat on her own.
4) This deck has real value 4 drops, might need a couple more ones I'd be willing to wood chipper to Vannifar.
Overall, really fun. I think control would still be my worst matchup, so the sideboard should reflect this (Dive downs, Carnage Tyrants, Unbreakable Formations, maybe Tithe Taker). I think mid range and aggro is a decent matchup for Bant overall.
Has anyone gone up Bant vs Phoenixes yet? It seems amusing to me to trap the lot in prison.
Could a *wizard* tribal (roughly, I think we can cheat a little) work here for a 4-5 colour deck?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&format= [%22Standard%22]&subtype=+[%22Wizard%22]
There are absolutely *loads* of good wizards with ETB effects, and Prime Speaker Vannifar is a wizard.
We could cheat it a bit, as some of the lower cost creatures (say, Incubation Druid, Wildgrowth Walker, Merfolk Branchwalker) could easily be included.
We could leverage Unclaimed Territory and Pillar of Origins to get any color mana, along with including 1-2 Chromatic Lantern. Then it'd just be fixing the land base to be able to hard cast any of the really tough spells we want like Rekindling Phoenix.
I think this deck is a bit crazier, but it might be fun *with* the right mix of stuff.
Think it depends if you're doing BO1 or Bo3. It's probably a sideboard card unless you're really convinced / scared of Walkers in general.
Mistcaller
Thankfully probably too narrow to see play.
Did you add an Assassin's Trophy or Vraska's Contempt? Or did you go the Eldest Reborn / Plaguescrafter route? Thankfully, G/B pretty much gobbles up planeswalkers.
Do folks generally feel Adventurous Impulse is better than Incubation // Incongruity?
I think that's why I marginally edge towards the Bant version -- with Bugler + Incubation, you can actually focus on the combo, but it's not *inherently* necessary to win. Bugler / Incubation can easily pull up a Hydroid Krasis for the win or tempo, for instance, and the explore package can easily pull games for you on their own. But combining them should allow you to resolve Vannifar more often than not in games.
I think this is less true of Black or Red, though, and they want to go more grindy (or smashy I guess it red's case), and Vannifar is just icing on the cake. I think Rhythm of the Wild may be a bit overblown in usefulness outside of the control matchup for Red, though, and not all that reliable, because you have no way to find it in your deck.