Instead of clasp, try out Trigon of Rage. It's been doing wonders for me. It gives you pump when you have extra mana, makes crusader able to kill just about anything, and of course you can do T2 Trigon, T3 Specter, T4 pump make them discard 4.
If we are taking trigon, wouldnt Livewire Lash just be strickly better? same cost, but +2/0 permenant investment just better, and makes your creatures better vs removal? Plus random with with targeting your own creature and 2 infect dmg?
I played a very aggressive deck with pretty much all creatures. I choose to draw once in the whole Tourney, and lost horribly due to mulligan's. I drew every round there after and won all games. It really helps when you have to mulligan, especially playing 3 colors.
@dark spawn: how's telling time work for you? kinda liking the deck list, lots of draw between 3 telling time, 3 cryptic, 4 remand, and 4 esper charm.
Telling time is great... leave 2 mana up for remand/leak Or telling time instead. It diggs 3 deep at instant speed. I like it over preordain, even though preordain is the better card due to instant speed.
Card draw is great, thats what hold the deck 2gether.
I also increased the number of basics as Blood Moon tech, that card is everywhere it seems.
And why are ppl afraid to post lists? looking over like the last 5 pages It seems like i"m the only 1 posting a list?
Not like control is good right now anyways... Dont be Scurreddd Children, its not really super secret tech
Pyro Ascention Win 2-1
Twin Extract Win 2-1
Pyro Ascetion Win 2-1
Rock G/B/W Loss 1-2
Top 8
Zoo Loss 1-2
Overall I think the deck ran well. Lucky didnt see the 12 Post that was Around.
G2 I raped with Meddling mage vs combo. Ppl pretty much Auto Scoop.
Rock had big early plays with dark confind and too many threats.
Zoo got there by doing what zoo does g1 on play and g3.
1 game went like Nacadl into 2 Hierchs swing for 5 turn 2....
I don't know if you guys have still been playing this style of deck, but my updated list is pretty decent it avoids a lot of weaknesses we have.
What we need is a list of decks for the format so that we can then list general answers to them and thus overlapping answers can be used to make our decks as efficient as possible. If anyone is interested in helping me make this list I think it could progress this style of deck very quickly.
Anyway this is what I have been using, its really hard to play so easy to make a mistake with, but anyway.
The zendikar traps have surprisingly been really good if you haven't noticed.
So lets see... You are running red for 4 bolts and 1 cruel?
I like me some bolts and cruel more then your average player, but messing up your mana base just for 5 cards makes no sense. Just run U/b/w Teachings, you can still run dismember or go for the throat.
And where are the cryptics?
I think Trickbind is betters then Angel's grace if you want a silver bullet for your Teachings.
Also I;m Running Preordain, and i've switched them for Telling time. I think its a better card and it digs 3 deep... also instant = good?
I;ve been goign back in forth with running Punishing fire/grove package - I know Argetum is really the advocate of the combo, Only problem i have is - Not being able to consistently get Grove, and Esper charm mana. Several times in testing i could not esper charm EOT due to grove. It's the only land that doesnt make blue, and i dont like that.
Only really having issues with post 12, There are diffrent lists being played, Being Mono U-12 post , G 12 post or the Urza 12 post. They are all annoying and tough to beat. I think that more counters and draw-go style of play is the way to beat them.
Spout / bolt and path destroy zoo/agro,
Sb - Lotta hate vs cobo and control
Testing Sacrament vs 12 post
Thoughtseize is great
Mindbreak vs U12 post and Dstorm
Spreading seas have been great when it doesnt get repealed or Rbombed vs 12post.
Shifting borders - Testing vs 12 post again, could be good once you fetch it with Teachings.
I've been sketchy about the Pact of negation - (not bad with teachings), But bad if you draw it early vs agro. might take it out for another repeal.
Mana base has been pretty steady, reminds me of When this deck was t2.
Lets say vs U/W stone, Bant, BUG, Dredge, Goblins, merfolk and RUG tempo? What do you take out, put in?
Any1 else try telling time?
If we are taking trigon, wouldnt Livewire Lash just be strickly better? same cost, but +2/0 permenant investment just better, and makes your creatures better vs removal? Plus random with with targeting your own creature and 2 infect dmg?
Midnight Haunting" target="blank">Midnight Haunting ran 2, and was able to play Transfrom card turn 2... pass turn, then play nothign turn 3 to Flip... EOT Midnight Haunting.
Skirsdag Cultist My deck also lacked removal and this with Midnight Haunting was great.
Darkthicket Wolf Was a great 2 drop, won most games with this guy.
Ambush Viper Since again i lacked removal, this guy was all over the place killing bigger dudes.
Telling time is great... leave 2 mana up for remand/leak Or telling time instead. It diggs 3 deep at instant speed. I like it over preordain, even though preordain is the better card due to instant speed.
Card draw is great, thats what hold the deck 2gether.
I also increased the number of basics as Blood Moon tech, that card is everywhere it seems.
And why are ppl afraid to post lists? looking over like the last 5 pages It seems like i"m the only 1 posting a list?
Not like control is good right now anyways... Dont be Scurreddd Children, its not really super secret tech
This is pretty much the list I ran.
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Baneslayer
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Esper Charm
4 Mana Leak
3 Path to Exile
3 Telling Time
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Remand
1 Consume the Meek
3 Cryptic Command
1 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
4 misty rainforest
1 Colonian Collonade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 marsh flats
2 drowned catacomb
1 mystic gate
2 watery grave
2 hallowed fountain
2 glacial fortress
1 sunken ruin
5 islands
2 swamp
1 plains
Played against :
Pyro Ascention Win 2-1
Twin Extract Win 2-1
Pyro Ascetion Win 2-1
Rock G/B/W Loss 1-2
Top 8
Zoo Loss 1-2
Overall I think the deck ran well. Lucky didnt see the 12 Post that was Around.
G2 I raped with Meddling mage vs combo. Ppl pretty much Auto Scoop.
Rock had big early plays with dark confind and too many threats.
Zoo got there by doing what zoo does g1 on play and g3.
1 game went like Nacadl into 2 Hierchs swing for 5 turn 2....
The deck needs more removal me thinks and better card draw. It was slow and clunky all day. I'll be waiting for that Sept 20th to give us some more heat!
1 Trickbind
3 Meddling Mage
4 Spreading seas
2 Damnation
2 Doomblade
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Spell Pierce
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Baneslayer
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Esper Charm
4 Mana Leak
3 Path to Exile
4 Telling Time
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Remand
1 Consume the Meek
3 Cryptic Command
1 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
4 misty rainforest
1 Colonian Collonade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 marsh flats
2 drowned catacomb
1 mystic gate
2 watery grave
2 hallowed fountain
2 glacial fortress
1 sunken ruin
5 islands
2 swamp
1 plains
3 Meddling Mage
4 Spreading seas
2 Damnation
2 Doomblade
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Spell Pierce
I like the list, Needs to change a few cards, but the shell is right on point i think.
mayb no Crovax, no Spell snare and better mana base?
As long as it has 4 esper charm 4 cryptic, teachings and Teferi you are on the right track!
I run
Just bounce or destroy the Ascention... After sb there is even more hate.
Other then that I think Pox is pretty good, deff need a way to kill lands with 12post running around.
So lets see... You are running red for 4 bolts and 1 cruel?
I like me some bolts and cruel more then your average player, but messing up your mana base just for 5 cards makes no sense. Just run U/b/w Teachings, you can still run dismember or go for the throat.
And where are the cryptics?
I think Trickbind is betters then Angel's grace if you want a silver bullet for your Teachings.
Also I;m Running Preordain, and i've switched them for Telling time. I think its a better card and it digs 3 deep... also instant = good?
4 esper charm
3 firespout
4 cryptic command
2 mystical teachings
4 lightning bolt
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Grave Titan
3 Path to Exile
1 pact of negation
4 mana leak
4 remand
1 Repeal
1 consume the meek
4 Vivid Creek
3 Vivid Marsh
2 Vivid Crag
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Cascade bluffs
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Steam Vents
2 Water Grave
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Shifring Borders
4 spreading seas
3 Thoughtseize
2 doom blade
1 Damnation
1 Echoing Truth
I;ve been goign back in forth with running Punishing fire/grove package - I know Argetum is really the advocate of the combo, Only problem i have is - Not being able to consistently get Grove, and Esper charm mana. Several times in testing i could not esper charm EOT due to grove. It's the only land that doesnt make blue, and i dont like that.
HEre is the list with the groves
4 esper charm
3 firespout
4 cryptic command
2 mystical teachings
4 lightning bolt
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Grave Titan
2 Path to Exile
1 pact of negation
4 mana leak
4 remand
1 Repeal
2 Punishing Grove
3 Vivid Marsh
2 Vivid Crag
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Cascade bluffs
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Steam Vents
2 Water Grave
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Shifring Borders
4 spreading seas
3 Thoughtseize
2 doom blade
1 Damnation
1 Echoing Truth
Only really having issues with post 12, There are diffrent lists being played, Being Mono U-12 post , G 12 post or the Urza 12 post. They are all annoying and tough to beat. I think that more counters and draw-go style of play is the way to beat them.
Spout / bolt and path destroy zoo/agro,
Sb - Lotta hate vs cobo and control
Testing Sacrament vs 12 post
Thoughtseize is great
Mindbreak vs U12 post and Dstorm
Spreading seas have been great when it doesnt get repealed or Rbombed vs 12post.
Shifting borders - Testing vs 12 post again, could be good once you fetch it with Teachings.
I've been sketchy about the Pact of negation - (not bad with teachings), But bad if you draw it early vs agro. might take it out for another repeal.
Mana base has been pretty steady, reminds me of When this deck was t2.
Let me know what you think,
Espeically clearing up the differnce between attaching and equipments...
Had Phantasmal Image on a mimic Vat, was wondring if it can be abused with equipments.
Thanks again!
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