I didn't see any other discussions of this card. I love the depth that light up the stage can give red. How do we feel about theater? Does it provide Rakdos the depth it needs? Does it make it a difference if the cube is powered or unpowered?
I noticed that people were adding cards at the bottom of the spread sheet, but now they are all deleted. What is up with that?
Goblin Cratermaker
Assassin's trophy
Knight of Autumn
Gutterbones
etc.
I assume it was because they were new, but just because a card is new does not mean it does not belong on the list. After playtesting ravnica allegiance I would even add Light up the Stage. While certainly not the best red card in cube, it better than some other cards on the list.
Trample is King! and the Gearhulk is more flexible. It either comes down as 8/8 trample, or spreads the threat around. Combined with Flicker effects, it is a house.
Sol Ring is amazing, don't get me wrong, but if there are enough other rocks, then I think sol ring is okay. We are talking about 1 card in the entire cube, which you may not even see in a given draft, which goes into a players deck, and is 1 card of 40 that they may not even see. Sol ring on turn 1 is great, sol ring on turn 5 is good.
As long as there is other ramp options to be had, I think the ring is okay.
As for cards that only belong in "powered cubes," I think that is up to each cube designer. I don't like mind twist, because it makes for non-games (The only answer is to have counter magic), whereas a turn 2 channel (this is generally the fastest you can channel in my cube) into a giant creature can be met with swords to plowshares, go for the throat, path to exile, even disenchant and counterspell, so the thing is still busted if it happens, but it is also possible to answer. I feel the same way about Tinker I do with channel.
I have never played Library of Alexandria in my cube before, but the more busted lands you play, the more you have to have strip mine, wasteland, ghost quarter, etc. to help balance it out.
I will say I don't run storm payoff cards like grapeshot and tendrils of agony, but this is more because storm is less viable in an unpowered cube.
You just need to keep things balanced, and provide answers to your players who don't end up with busted cards.
I agree with the guys, I think the cube is too large. You mentioned ravnica block as a model.
I would go to 500 cards, this would be like combining Ravnica Allegiance with Guilds of Ravnica.
If we look at a set like guilds of ravnica, the set is 250 cards. 75 of these cards are multicolored. Therefore, roughly 30 percent of the set is multicolored spells. Your cube is a at 27%. If your cube was 500 cards, then 150 cards would be multicolored to maintain the same ratio. This would mean 15 cards in each guild.
Also, if you are having trouble putting a pod of 8 together, then you are incentivized to have a smaller cube. This will make the putting the decks together easier, as the cube will be more dense.
If you went 500 cards, I would run 35 lands. putting your mana fixing at about 7% of the cube. This would be a tad better than 1 land per pack.
I would trim to
57 cards of each color
15 of each guild
35 lands
30 artifacts
again, this is assuming you are trying to mimic ravnica block.
If you are trying to support tribal, perhaps include some tribal support cards like vanquisher's banner, heralds horn, and coat of arms. These cards would work in any tribal deck.
Lastly, after drafting your cube, I really felt the need for original duals. There just were not enough targets for my fetches. I only saw man-lands and tri-taplands, basically making my fetches worthless, because it was not on both my colors. I would get dual proxies at least to smooth this out. You won't believe how much better your cube drafts.
Yeah, although sometimes the difference is negligible, there are other times where the difference is amazing. Buffing guys to get them out of damage removal range, or languish type effects is solid, and if this lands on turn two or three against control it is back breaking in a way fires never could be.
I don't know if it is powered cube good, but in an unpowered cube it is fine, and if you run fires, I think this is an easy upgrade.
I guess you could do Kiki, but I feel like that is a different deck.
Also, this deck is a challenge from my wife, "Can you build a deck without spending any money on it?"
ummm... yes, yes I can.
I took apart an old vehicles deck, and put all the pieces in here. Depala is a natural commander, and actually grants boros some card draw. Everything else in the I have acquired through trades, or selling cards in for store credit. We call it my penniless commander deck.
Squirrel,
I don't think there is a definitive list, and edhrec will help you figure out 99 percent of it. You want a few creature board wipes, because you recover so quickly. After all, they miss your artifacts. I strongly recommend some spot removal, swords and path are super important.
The deck is not powerful. I think even fully optimized it is not powerful. You will need to politic a little and not be up against a bunch of overpowered deck. I think the deck is a 6, on a scale of 1-10, but it is decent in 1 vs. 1. resist the urge to unload your hand. Always trigger depala, so you don't run out of steam. Throne of the God Pharaoh is sneaky good.
pay attention to the colorless lands at the bottom. This is where 2 color decks can make up for it's missing colors. You don't need all those mountains and plains.
So, I have been playing Depala, and I really like it. Depala really helps mitigate boros card advantage, and vehicles are awesome at dodging most board wipes.
Still, in my other decks, I like having a trick to help end the game, if it is going long or I am really outclassed in power. For example, Niv Mizzet plays Curiosity. I don't normally use it, but when I feel it is appropriate at the table, I will go infinite.
My Kumena deck can take infinite turn with wanderwine prophets. It takes a little setup, but it is very possible.
Each of these combos are not hard to include, any suggestions for something spicey to put in Depala?
I feel like for a card like this you will need a lot of payoffs in its own color, a and several in each of the others. Otherwise, it is a dead card.
I feel like it is a card you draft to build around, but then does not make the main deck.
Let's assume I am playing 24 nonland cards in my deck, of those, let's say 16 are creatures. How many of those creatures does this card need to benefit for me to include it? Then, how many of mana sink creatures need to be in the cube to make it possible for me to have that many creatures.
Then you will know if the card is worth putting in your cube.
I know I am late to the party here, but when my table mentions something they believe to be problematic, or complains about a color, in my group (boros & Simic were claimed to be undraftable).
I tend to force that in the next few drafts to see if they are right, sometimes they are, and sometimes it is just a play group dynamic.
My suggestion is force green a few times. If it is truly viable, and they are not playing it, then you will get all the cards, and you should be able to smash face. If you can't make it work, even when you are the only one really drafting it, then they may have a point.
My group was right about simic and wrong about boros, and I adjusted accordingly.
That is actually why my 8 year old son plays Gishath. Loves him some dinos. So, I finally landed on boros. Depala specifically. I love vehicles. The deck is super fair, and definitely not overpowered, and at least Depala gives me some card draw.
The deck is very budget friendly. Especially since I just had most of it laying around. So, yeah, vehicles plus dwarf tribal, and boros. I do love a challenge.
Starting at 5 helps. I do think I think you will want will have a problem with many of the decks, regardless of color feeling the same. As there is not enough time for other strategies.
Aristocrats would be too busted.
Ramp is no good, there is nothing to ramp into.
Counter spells are super strong, especially in the early game.
Land destruction would end games.
Control would be really strong in this format.
No creatures stronger than 2 power, and very few of those.
- Essentially, two unblocked 1/1 creatures is the equivalent of two unblocked 5/5s.
- Creatures can only be 1/1 because a 1/3 creature requires 3 blockers to kill it, because there can't be 3/3 creatures.
- A 2/2 is essentially a 10/10.
Removal is crazy important, and should be drafted above all else.
Haste is a deal breaker too.
I think the cube is very limited.
There is a format, the name escapes me, where four players all share a deck of cards (around 200). There are no lands in the deck, instead each player has a stack of basics, or two color tap lands. Each turn they draw from the deck, and play one land randomly from their stack.
I feel like this idea is better suited for that format. Anyone remember what that is called?
Goblin Cratermaker
Assassin's trophy
Knight of Autumn
Gutterbones
etc.
I assume it was because they were new, but just because a card is new does not mean it does not belong on the list. After playtesting ravnica allegiance I would even add Light up the Stage. While certainly not the best red card in cube, it better than some other cards on the list.
Verdurous Gearhulk > Kalonian Hydra > Wolfir Silverheart
Trample is King! and the Gearhulk is more flexible. It either comes down as 8/8 trample, or spreads the threat around. Combined with Flicker effects, it is a house.
Rancor > Berserk > Blossoming Defense
As long as there is other ramp options to be had, I think the ring is okay.
As for cards that only belong in "powered cubes," I think that is up to each cube designer. I don't like mind twist, because it makes for non-games (The only answer is to have counter magic), whereas a turn 2 channel (this is generally the fastest you can channel in my cube) into a giant creature can be met with swords to plowshares, go for the throat, path to exile, even disenchant and counterspell, so the thing is still busted if it happens, but it is also possible to answer. I feel the same way about Tinker I do with channel.
I have never played Library of Alexandria in my cube before, but the more busted lands you play, the more you have to have strip mine, wasteland, ghost quarter, etc. to help balance it out.
I will say I don't run storm payoff cards like grapeshot and tendrils of agony, but this is more because storm is less viable in an unpowered cube.
You just need to keep things balanced, and provide answers to your players who don't end up with busted cards.
This begs the question, which lands. I already run the original duals, fetchs, and shocks, along with 5 utility lands.
My first thought was to add another full cycle of lands, like the man lands, or the check lands.
But then I had another thought, what if I just do the best land for each guild.
For example, azorius would want celestial colonnade, but boros would want a faster land like inspiring vantage, or clifftop retreat.
What do you think are the best lands for each guild, or would you go another way?
I would go to 500 cards, this would be like combining Ravnica Allegiance with Guilds of Ravnica.
If we look at a set like guilds of ravnica, the set is 250 cards. 75 of these cards are multicolored. Therefore, roughly 30 percent of the set is multicolored spells. Your cube is a at 27%. If your cube was 500 cards, then 150 cards would be multicolored to maintain the same ratio. This would mean 15 cards in each guild.
Also, if you are having trouble putting a pod of 8 together, then you are incentivized to have a smaller cube. This will make the putting the decks together easier, as the cube will be more dense.
If you went 500 cards, I would run 35 lands. putting your mana fixing at about 7% of the cube. This would be a tad better than 1 land per pack.
I would trim to
57 cards of each color
15 of each guild
35 lands
30 artifacts
again, this is assuming you are trying to mimic ravnica block.
If you are trying to support tribal, perhaps include some tribal support cards like vanquisher's banner, heralds horn, and coat of arms. These cards would work in any tribal deck.
Lastly, after drafting your cube, I really felt the need for original duals. There just were not enough targets for my fetches. I only saw man-lands and tri-taplands, basically making my fetches worthless, because it was not on both my colors. I would get dual proxies at least to smooth this out. You won't believe how much better your cube drafts.
I don't know if it is powered cube good, but in an unpowered cube it is fine, and if you run fires, I think this is an easy upgrade.
Also, this deck is a challenge from my wife, "Can you build a deck without spending any money on it?"
ummm... yes, yes I can.
I took apart an old vehicles deck, and put all the pieces in here. Depala is a natural commander, and actually grants boros some card draw. Everything else in the I have acquired through trades, or selling cards in for store credit. We call it my penniless commander deck.
Squirrel,
I don't think there is a definitive list, and edhrec will help you figure out 99 percent of it. You want a few creature board wipes, because you recover so quickly. After all, they miss your artifacts. I strongly recommend some spot removal, swords and path are super important.
The deck is not powerful. I think even fully optimized it is not powerful. You will need to politic a little and not be up against a bunch of overpowered deck. I think the deck is a 6, on a scale of 1-10, but it is decent in 1 vs. 1. resist the urge to unload your hand. Always trigger depala, so you don't run out of steam. Throne of the God Pharaoh is sneaky good.
here is the edhrec link: https://edhrec.com/commanders/depala-pilot-exemplar-vehicles-theme
pay attention to the colorless lands at the bottom. This is where 2 color decks can make up for it's missing colors. You don't need all those mountains and plains.
Still, in my other decks, I like having a trick to help end the game, if it is going long or I am really outclassed in power. For example, Niv Mizzet plays Curiosity. I don't normally use it, but when I feel it is appropriate at the table, I will go infinite.
My Kumena deck can take infinite turn with wanderwine prophets. It takes a little setup, but it is very possible.
Each of these combos are not hard to include, any suggestions for something spicey to put in Depala?
I feel like it is a card you draft to build around, but then does not make the main deck.
Let's assume I am playing 24 nonland cards in my deck, of those, let's say 16 are creatures. How many of those creatures does this card need to benefit for me to include it? Then, how many of mana sink creatures need to be in the cube to make it possible for me to have that many creatures.
Then you will know if the card is worth putting in your cube.
I tend to force that in the next few drafts to see if they are right, sometimes they are, and sometimes it is just a play group dynamic.
My suggestion is force green a few times. If it is truly viable, and they are not playing it, then you will get all the cards, and you should be able to smash face. If you can't make it work, even when you are the only one really drafting it, then they may have a point.
My group was right about simic and wrong about boros, and I adjusted accordingly.
The deck is very budget friendly. Especially since I just had most of it laying around. So, yeah, vehicles plus dwarf tribal, and boros. I do love a challenge.
Aristocrats would be too busted.
Ramp is no good, there is nothing to ramp into.
Counter spells are super strong, especially in the early game.
Land destruction would end games.
Control would be really strong in this format.
No creatures stronger than 2 power, and very few of those.
- Essentially, two unblocked 1/1 creatures is the equivalent of two unblocked 5/5s.
- Creatures can only be 1/1 because a 1/3 creature requires 3 blockers to kill it, because there can't be 3/3 creatures.
- A 2/2 is essentially a 10/10.
Removal is crazy important, and should be drafted above all else.
Haste is a deal breaker too.
I think the cube is very limited.
There is a format, the name escapes me, where four players all share a deck of cards (around 200). There are no lands in the deck, instead each player has a stack of basics, or two color tap lands. Each turn they draw from the deck, and play one land randomly from their stack.
I feel like this idea is better suited for that format. Anyone remember what that is called?