Sorry I think my post was too long and confusing and thanks for your help.
My main question was is it possible to build a decent kitchen table casual sliver tribal deck using only the common and uncommon modern horizons cards.
Which slivers should be dumped and replaced by spells or changelings?
Im thinking of removing bladeback, hollowhead and scuttling as they dont seem useful for just beating on people.
Ephemerate is there to save slivers form spot removals but it's also a combo with Dregscape Sliver, when you unearth a sliver you can attack with it and then Ephemerate it so then it will be exiled attending the unearth requirements but will come back on the field as a new sliver so you can keep it as if you had casted it. Winding Way could be used choosing "lands" and sending slivers to grave to unearth them for 2 mana of any color and haste, though you have to exile them, it might be worth the last points of damage.
You can use other cards you have to help make the list more suited for you, so feel free to change the list you prefer. Hope it helps!
4 vials, 4 caverns, 4 hive and 4 unclaimed territory. And add 4 mana generator slivers. It should not be difficult to cast.
While I exaggerated mana problems, they exist for sure to the point people exclude Mutavault from their lists. Ive never seen a list with 4 unclaimed territory and those that play it do it in exchange of Mutavaults. RW are least played colors in traditional build and adding RW sliver wont make mana situation better.
I've been looking at getting slivers together for a bit and now, with MH, I've decided to pull the trigger. What's the difference in "Fast Slivers" and other sliver builds? Aren't they all meant to go fast?
Fast Slivers are meant to attack with everything each turn and can consistently goldfish by turn 4.
Traditional build uses Collected Company, Necrotic Sliver, Manaweft Sliver and Sedge Sliver so it pros and cons come from this: its more versatile and more powerful on later turns, has some wrath protection, but it has inconsistent and painful manabase and lacks speed which when combined with lack of control and card advantage results in low winrates.
It was announced several days ago that in July this site will be shutting down. I encourage all members to check out the modern slivers page on Facebook or the discord channel for future sliver discussions. Links provided below.
New to Modern slivers, but I play slivers in Pauper.
Why don't I see Aether Vial in any lists in the last few pages?
It seems like a perfect fit in a deck that wants to swarm, and especially in decks without Gemhide or Manaweft can help boost the early game and support the top end if you end up in the later game.
Very curious...
Hi, welcome to the forum!
I think that was just a coincidence, I mean, last few there are some Fast Slivers list that don't run them and some new brews of the deck people was testing, me included, and then came the spoilers of Modern Horizons with slivers and more list start appearing with focus around The First Sliver and Dregscape Sliver to try a new mechanic with slivers.
The Collected Sliver list run 4 AEther Vial, Manaweft Sliver and sometimes a number of Gemhide Sliver and it seems it's the most common list around, it's just that the last few pages there where not as many CoCo Sliver list posted as usual.
Not sure on Ruination Rioter, to me it seems like for it to deal significant damage you should already had a way to put lands on grave, maybe with Seismic Assault which would be already over or if you end up having to discard your hand after you cast a Treasure Hunt and your opponent destroy your Reliquary Tower when you don't have Assault yet, then in this case you drop the Rioter and have to find a way to send it to grave to deal the damage...not sure if it's reliable to put another card in the deck that will stop Treasure Hunt from digging through lands.
I got the Swans for the deck and it's being a great addition.
I haven't considered Mystifying Maze yet and it seems it could have a place in the list.
The spoilers on Modern Horizons we got Fiery Islet, Lonely Sandbar and Forgotten Cave which could be nice as cycle lands 9-16. I like it. Hall of Heliod's Generosity looks interesting to retrieve a discarded or destroyed Seismic Assault, but costing W to activate it would require some more space for other lands to add the correct color.
Use Mindlash and Hollowhead to put Morophon in the yard, Unearth Morophon and play or Unearth The First Sliver. Dump your entire deck with haste and flying. AV is a cute optional piece to make every Cascade chain end in a Recall.
Use Basal Sliver to shuffle around Slivers in the wrong place: sac an extra Mindlash to Unearth Harmonic, for instance. Or just build up black mana to spend on the colorless parts of costs.
Nice list, I like the general idea, maybe adding a couple of Darkheart Slivers and Crypt of Agadeem could be helpful as a plan B and unearth a good part of the slivers for the last points of damage. Even though unearth doesn't trigger cascade, having more slivers that could be cast for 0 with Morophon could work. Unearthing big slivers on turn 3 seems nice.
The deck colors are basically Naya. I added the black for the huge slivers and the unearth one. I just found all them good.
Blasphemous Act is just my sweet spot along the newest Spiteful Sliver, so we can kill the oponent in one shot.
If Crystalline Sliver comes out, there is gonna be more changes, but for now, this is my newest brew for my sliver deck.
Interesting list, I see you removed completely Galerider Sliver and Diffusion Sliver, I imagine it's a more proactive approach counting on Dregscape to recur slivers, I like the idea, I was considering maybe keeping some number of Galerider to help ensure evasion. I was considering running Mindlash to discard some beefy sliver at end of opponent's turn and unearth for an alpha strike or unearth Constricting Sliver and some other slivers removing the blockers and attacking, but not sure if it would be good idea. Blasphemous Act and Spiteful Sliver seems like a lot of damage. I think maybe adding 1 Necrotic maybe in place of 1 Spiteful.
Hey guys, I really want to go back to playing slivers in modern, however i dont like the aether vial traditional build since its too slow for my meta. Anyone have any suggestions especially with new slivers getting released? I would play CoCo if its needed.
I believe you could start with the Fast Slivers list from @Timba. One of his last list he provided can be found on the previous page of this thread, for reference:
...
Fast Slivers are meant to attack with everything each turn and can consistently goldfish by turn 4.
Traditional build uses Collected Company, Necrotic Sliver, Manaweft Sliver and Sedge Sliver so it pros and cons come from this: its more versatile and more powerful on later turns, has some wrath protection, but it has inconsistent and painful manabase and lacks speed which when combined with lack of control and card advantage results in low winrates.
Timba seems to be the most experienced with the list, I'm not sure if any other modifications to the list were made since, but I like the list and think you could try it.
Tomorrow in the afternoon we set a proxy tournament in order to test the new cards. I'm going to use the "Highlander approach" to look for infos in a competitive environment.
Yeah, it's obviously a weird pile full of nonsense. But this is the strategy I usually adopt when I've got several cards to test at the same time, in order to see what's good and what's bad in a given moment of the match.
Mono Abrade is something I wanted to try as an out from Ensnaring Bridge and such, while Lazotep Plating is a tech I suspect could be decent in certain metagames. Let's see how it's going.
Wish me luck.
Nice, it could work as a brainstorm of ideas if it work out. Good Luck!
One thing I like about Nimble Mongoose is that you just have to react on what can prevent it front hitting every turn and not worry much about removal, aside mass removal.
To me, I would add Force of Negation to the sideboard and keep Disrupting Shoal as the main pitch card, because I think in this deck it's important to keep more possible lines of play available so then each card can be suited for different task if needed. Even if a missing definitive creature removal for the deck is spoiled, I guess having the choice of countering a creature or find removal, is better than have the opportunity to counter and have to find a removal.
I know it already being discussed, but maybe playing Faithless Looting instead of Thought Scour could give a better card selection and even work out giving qualitative advantage despite the quantitative disadvantage accrued with Disrupting Shoal. If you could just keep your creature beating every turn it could be just what is needed.
Haven't play modern for a while now.
Is it good to destroy all lands on T3 if you have a vial and gemhide/manaweft?
Of course this is assuming everything goes perfectly.
I'm not asking "is this deck good for modern?" more like: "is this effect good enough for modern?"
T1: Vial
T2: Manaweft/Gemhide vial in 1CMC sliver
T3: Vial in Cloudshredder, cast Boom // Bust
Best case scenario you're left with a 2 charge vial and 3 slivers capable of adding mana on your opponent's second turn.
You're not even switching completely away from the lords plan, it also gives an mainboard edge against Tron.
But Ithink Death Shadow would laugh it off.
I think that the effect itself could be good, at least when I play with land destruction strategy with a Mardu Pox brew, some players just quit when they need to get to the third land and they got their first lands destroyed. If you can take away their lands and keep a nice clock on the field that could just do it. Keeping that line of thought you could run Spiteful Sliver spoiled with Wildfire and Syphon Sliver could gain you some life in the process, but, as you said, assuming everything goes perfectly.
Lavabelly Sliver for me looks like a sideboard creature for burn matchups also.
And the most glorious sliver: The First Sliver can let us cascade almost to anything, even Collected Company and Cascade two time more, at least.
Not sure if Lavabelly Sliver could be a sideboard against Burn because it cost 3 to gain you 1 life and possibly having to wait a turn to drop more slivers while Eidolon of the Great Revel would still be causing damage, I think it just doesn't affect the game against Burn that much, if it gives 1 point for each sliver you control would be very nice.
Yeah, I realized that later. Dregscape can help a lot to finishing an opponent thanks the unearth for any lord or galerider sliver and finish.
I agree, I think Dregscape Sliver gives a much needed edge for slivers to attack with and another option for mana sink along with Sliver Hive, a bit more potential for disruptive slivers like Necrotic Sliver and against some forms of mass removal and maybe a possible narrow way around Blood Moon to put slivers into play depending on the build and situation.
@ThisisKraben
I don’t think Morophon is very good, just because it’s seven mana, and if you can cast that you don’t need a cost reduction.
I agree. The above example was more of a dream scenario. Time will tell what lists proves to be most effective. I think the more traditional list with CoCo and Vial will still be a thing and so will Fast Slivers both only with minor changes. I hope for also for a more combo type of list including the new unearth Sliver.
Hello there,
I have been toying around Telekinetic Sliver, since I was not satisfied about how the traditional list was performing recently.
What started as a meme deck, turned out to be superfun and effective (atleast, in the few matches I have tried).
Enter list:
Gameplan is simple: deploy slivers as fast as you can, slam a Telekinetic Sliver or a Quilled Sliver and control the battlefield until you can alpha strike.
However, the deck has a lot of alternative gameplans: go all-in with Virulent Sliver, create a token army with Sliver Hive, or simply flood the battlefield with Lead The Stampede. Incubation // Incongruity is a card that has surprised me on how good it fits into the deck.
Against sorcery based or creature decks, the deck goes nuts. Its weaker against instant-based control decks.
Manabase is still a work in progress, I have to test Bonesplitter Sliver before saying is worth, and I will like to trim Screeching Sliver for mpore powerful options (i still want to slam somewhere a Necrotic Sliver or a pair of Sentinel Sliver).
Nowadays, the deck is a lot of fun, and I think there's a lot of potential here (Telekinetic Sliver is VERY powerful).
I would like to hear your thoughts on the list.
Cheers!
I remember playing with a list like that a couple of years ago, it is really fun indeed!
Not sure if you're still running that list, but maybe you could try adding a combo in there and put some disrupting like you said with Necrotic Sliver could be nice. I would Suggest Something like the following:
The Idea here would be to keep you original plan of controlling the board with Telekinetic Sliver and Quilled Sliver with some help from Venom Sliver so you have deathtouch while pin pointing damage on attackers and Necrotic Sliver to remove other troublesome permanents. While I do think Lead the Stampede and Incubation // Incongruity can be nice on your list, I'm not sure how will you mana base will develop and how reliably will you be able to cast those, so I thought that maybe a couple of Homing Slivers could do the trick and grab the sliver you need. I see you use many 1 drop slivers to fill the board and enable the control state you need and maybe use Virulent Sliver to finish the game since there are no sliver that grant attack bonus aside from Bonesplitter Sliver, I would take them away for now at least to add more lands to your mana base so then you can reach 4 mana to cast Telekinetic more easily. Diffusion Sliver for when you're still building your board. Dregscape Sliver, Basal Sliver and Dormant Sliver are there to have a combo as alternative win, if you don't feel like it you could swap Basal Sliver and Dormant Sliver for Screeching Sliver and Sentinel Sliver or 4 Virulent Sliver removing 2 Dregscape Sliver so then you have alternative win conditions if needed and more 1 mana slivers to help get hold of the board with Telekinetic or even 2 Cautery Slivers to combo with Venom Sliver, Lavabelly Sliver could be nice in here too, and I would dare to say to maybe Hollowhead Sliver and Scuttling Sliver could have a place in your list to help digging the pieces you need and use your lands to untap slivers and tapping more permanents with Telekinetic, but I think at least 2 Dregscape Sliver should stay in the main deck. Just an idea.
I hope it help!
Why play Root Maze? It slows you down two times more than your opp. You spend a card and mana to put it, then it makes your lands come into play tapped. For your opp it only makes lands come into play tapped. Its hard to cast, only 10 sources in your list, 4 of them can already be 'empty'. I can understand playing without Caverns, shocks and fetches for budget reasons, but without 4x Galerider Sliver list becomes not interesting to comment. Also your list with poor manabase will benefit strongly from 4x Adaptive Automaton
Thanks for the reply!
I tried Root Maze in hope my opponents would be playing with fetchlands (fetch comes tapped and the land fetched comes tapped as well) or artifacts and that with a deck with low mana curve, I could play aggro along with the symmetric effect as my opponent struggles with mana and make slivers more difficult to target when Diffusion Sliver was on the field. Just a test. The colorless cost of Adaptive Automaton looks great for my mana base, I'm just not such on it since it cost 3 manas, I considered Metallic Mimic in it's place.
Nice one that Unearth Sliver!
So if I get Manaweft Sliver, Basal Sliver, Beck and the new Unearth Sliver, I could tap slivers for mana, sacrifice them for more mana and draw 2 cards for each sliver cast and unearthed and maybe draw my entire deck while netting mana, and even on turn 3 if goldfishing hard. But I'm not such if the mana base could support Beck just like my old build was not consistent to cast Root Maze, but it could be a nice combo.
Maybe using Mindlash Sliver or Homing Sliver to discard a Plague Sliver, Megantic or one of TheLegendarySlivers and unearth it for 2 seems nice.
Do you think Dregscape Sliver (unearth) would be better suited in a Fast Sliver, Collected Sliver list or could it open a third line in between with mana slivers?
anyway just an idea, it's kinda of a control-combo, where you could use Gigadrowse at your opponents end step to tap all their lands, so then you could combo more safely with Dispel just in case.
I went to a small tournment with around 16 players with slivers! I wanted to test a version of slivers I was more confortable with so this was my list:
Game 1 - Naya Aggro
1-2
round 1: He casted 3 creatures and removed 2 slivers, I casted sliver after sliver and overwhelmed his removals.
round 2: he mulliganed to 5, and on turn 3 had 5 creatures on the field and beated me before a casted a third sliver.
round 3: can't remember clearly, we had at least 3 creatures on each side of the board, I couldn't find more slivers that granted +1/+1, I was drawing lands, I guess, and he beated me with Wild Nacatls.
round 2: I casted Root Maze turn 1, he struggled to get anything on board but 3 Scales, I attacked, he manages to find Walking Ballista which came with X plus 3 counters, removed my slivers, casted another Ballista, I found 2 Harmonic Sliver and the Slivers beated him.
round 3: He uses Scales and Walking Ballista to remove my board and attacked with a buffed Hangar.
Game 3 - Pili-Pala Combo
0-2
he didn't get to combo neither games, I found 2 Harmonic Slivers, but he end up winning with Wurmcoil Engines and taking control of some of my slivers.
Root Maze was fine to play with even being a bad top deck card, but I thought I would have the opportunity to test it against more decks with fetch lands.
I liked the Deserts package on the list, it allows the deck to go a bit more non linear the usually, which is useful. I've being building a version of this list, but still got to find those Swans and test them.
Since the spoiler of Blast Zone, I rebuilding my list and trying to see how many copies of it would be good. I tried to make a version which could work like a control deck through utility lands, so them I could reduce the number of mulligans and still play along if the spells got handled by countermagic of something.
This is the general idea of what I'm trying to build, a bit rough in the edges but it looks quite fine, to me at least, I still have to test Swans of Bryn Argoll, Countryside Crusher and Day's Undoing, but I wanted to keep a high count of lands in the deck. And the sideboard is just a sketch.
Went to a small tournament, with around 9-12 players, on my LGS with Mardu Smallpox because I thought that there wound be a lot of Tron and Combo decks and I feel more confidant to play with this list against those decks and to test my build a bit.
I found out that in the store there were 3 Hardened Affinity, 1 Boros Prison, 1 Elf Combo, 1 Pili-Pala/Grand Architect Combo, 1 Izzet Mages and 1 Boros Humans.
t2: I played Mycosynth Wellspring on second turn, he cast a Jace, I Abraded it and Crack the Earth for Wellspring and his land, he passed I played a land and Lingering Souls he Remanded it and I passed, he Lightning Bolted me and passed, I played Souls again and passedhe played Grim Lavamancer and passed, I played Pyromancer and Crack the Earth sacing a land from both sides and generating a token from Pyromancer, he killed Pyromancer with Lavamancer and passed, I attacked with the tokens he cast Snapcaster for Bolt on me and I Forked Bolt the Snapcaster and Lavamancer and passed, he draw a card and passed, I play Dunes of the Dead and Boom//Bust it and one of his lands and he conceded.
As I remember he needed 3 lands to play and was struggling to find lands both games. I remember casting a Duress and he had Magus of the Moon, 2 Ionize and another 3 drop.
t3: He started slow, I Erased one Hardened Scales, he played another and a Arcbound Worker followed by a second Worker, I casted Smallpox he sacrificed a Worker and transfered the counters to the other making it a 5/5, he attacked me for 5, I casted Gurmag and passed, he draw a card and did not attacked, I Abraded the Worker and attacked with Gurmag, he cast a Steel Overseer I casted a Zealous Persecution on his turn to kill the Oversir, I attacked and passed, he casted a Sparring Construct and passed, I played Faithless Looting kept a Forked Bolt and a Anger of the Gods, used Forked Bolt on the Construct and 1 point on him, attacked and passed, he casted 2 artifact creatures (can't remember which) and passed, I played Anger of the Gods and attack again.
Game 3 - Boros Humans
1-2
t1: I casted Smallpox followed by a Boom // Bust on next turn and he conceded.
t2 and t3: on game 2 I had a Anger of the Gods on hand and felt like I should hold it in my hand a bit because he could have some answer to it, I fail to followed my instinct, casted Anger which was answer with a Boros Charm making his permanents indestructible and it was downhill from there. Both games I was not sure if should remove his creatures first, or his lands, or dropping Pyromancer, tried to remove his lands and but he had plenty and lost.
Game 4 - Pili-Pala Combo
1-2
t1:Didn't know what I was playing against, started with Crack the Earth on Dunes of the Dead and a land of his making a Zombie Token, he played Pili-Pala and I remembered there was a combo with that card so I Forked Bolt it, cast Faithless Looting, Gurmag Angler and managed to win before he stablishes the combo.
t2: I've made a mistake tried to cast Gurmag earlier and instead of removing his permanents with a Pyromancer in play, lost my own resources and the game right after.
t3: I felt I should have had a mulligan, but kept a hand with Forked Bolt, Crack the Earth, Lingering Souls, Faithless Looting and lands, I couldn't keep him out of resources, I had one Erase on hand thinking that he would cast something like a Rest in Peace, draw lands for 5 turns and lost to my own Gurmag which he manages to take control of.
I've made a couple of mistakes like not playing the land of the turn and not casting Terrarion when had mana left, and I need more practice playing with Young Pyromancer, timing is very important in this build and spending a turn to cast Pyromancer instead of removing permanents or holding Crack the Earth or Smallpox to cast Pyromancer with 3 lands in play may cause a game loss, but playing those spells early may not be as meaningful as if you had the Pyromancer already in play, causing a game loss too.
For sideboard I usually remove a Faithless Loting, a Duress and some Boom // Bust depending on what I'm against. And I should replace that Erase for something else.
I really liked playing Mardu Smallpox, I'll try to play it better next time or with less misplays at least and I hope to see more cards for this strategy in the upcoming sets and that more people give this deck a try and have as much fun as I have playing it.
By the way, what do you think about Mayhem Devil, Angrath's Rampage and Liliana's Triumph from the spoilers of War of the Spark? seems like it could be interesting addition to the deck or at least to some version of this deck.
I made 3 lists that can be used as a guide considering you would make a deck basically with modern horizons:
4 Lavabelly Sliver
4 Dregscape Sliver
4 Hollowhead Sliver
4 Bladeback Sliver
4 Changeling Outcast
4 Universal Automaton
2 Lancer Sliver
3 Cleaving Sliver
3 Ephemerate
3 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Shimmering Grotto
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Cave of Temptation
1 Blossoming Sands
1 Rugged Highlands
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Forest
4 Lavabelly Sliver
4 Dregscape Sliver
4 Hollowhead Sliver
4 Bladeback Sliver
3 Changeling Outcast
2 Universal Automaton
3 Magmatic Sinkhole
3 Ephemerate
4 Etchings of the Chosen
2 Door of Destinies
2 Birthing Boughs
3 Shimmering Grotto
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Barren Moor
1 Cave of Temptation
1 Blossoming Sands
1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Dregscape Sliver
4 Hollowhead Sliver
4 Bladeback Sliver
4 Changeling Outcast
3 Cleaving Sliver
2 Lancer Sliver
3 Ephemerate
4 Etchings of the Chosen
4 Firebolt
3 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Bloodfell Caves
2 Wind-Scarred Crag
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Barren Moor
Ephemerate is there to save slivers form spot removals but it's also a combo with Dregscape Sliver, when you unearth a sliver you can attack with it and then Ephemerate it so then it will be exiled attending the unearth requirements but will come back on the field as a new sliver so you can keep it as if you had casted it. Winding Way could be used choosing "lands" and sending slivers to grave to unearth them for 2 mana of any color and haste, though you have to exile them, it might be worth the last points of damage.
You can use other cards you have to help make the list more suited for you, so feel free to change the list you prefer. Hope it helps!
There are two main list around which are Fast Sliver and Collected Slivers.
Timba wrote a bit about the decks on the last few pages:
But since the spoilers new list are being brewed so expect a few changes to the lists.
Also:
I think that was just a coincidence, I mean, last few there are some Fast Slivers list that don't run them and some new brews of the deck people was testing, me included, and then came the spoilers of Modern Horizons with slivers and more list start appearing with focus around The First Sliver and Dregscape Sliver to try a new mechanic with slivers.
The Collected Sliver list run 4 AEther Vial, Manaweft Sliver and sometimes a number of Gemhide Sliver and it seems it's the most common list around, it's just that the last few pages there where not as many CoCo Sliver list posted as usual.
What sliver list do you want to build?
I got the Swans for the deck and it's being a great addition.
I haven't considered Mystifying Maze yet and it seems it could have a place in the list.
The spoilers on Modern Horizons we got Fiery Islet, Lonely Sandbar and Forgotten Cave which could be nice as cycle lands 9-16. I like it. Hall of Heliod's Generosity looks interesting to retrieve a discarded or destroyed Seismic Assault, but costing W to activate it would require some more space for other lands to add the correct color.
4 Dregscape Sliver
4 Darkheart Sliver
3 Syphon Sliver
3 cloudshredder Sliver
4 Ancestral Vision
4 The First Sliver
4 Morophon, the Boundless
2 Basal Sliver
3 Hollowhead Sliver
2 Homing Sliver
2 Harmonic Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
18 other lands
Maybe Cautery Sliver could work with Venom Sliver
4 Dregscape Sliver
4 Darkheart Sliver
3 Syphon Sliver
3 Necrotic Sliver
2 Basal Sliver
3 Striking Sliver
4 Venom Sliver
3 Hollowhead Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
3 Spiteful Sliver
3 Deafening Clarion
4 Sliver Hive
13 other lands
I believe you could start with the Fast Slivers list from @Timba. One of his last list he provided can be found on the previous page of this thread, for reference: Timba seems to be the most experienced with the list, I'm not sure if any other modifications to the list were made since, but I like the list and think you could try it.
We got a few more keywords with Enduring Sliver and Bladeback Sliver. First commons.
One thing I like about Nimble Mongoose is that you just have to react on what can prevent it front hitting every turn and not worry much about removal, aside mass removal.
To me, I would add Force of Negation to the sideboard and keep Disrupting Shoal as the main pitch card, because I think in this deck it's important to keep more possible lines of play available so then each card can be suited for different task if needed. Even if a missing definitive creature removal for the deck is spoiled, I guess having the choice of countering a creature or find removal, is better than have the opportunity to counter and have to find a removal.
I know it already being discussed, but maybe playing Faithless Looting instead of Thought Scour could give a better card selection and even work out giving qualitative advantage despite the quantitative disadvantage accrued with Disrupting Shoal. If you could just keep your creature beating every turn it could be just what is needed.
Do you think Tempered Sliver could substitute Spined Sliver in Fast Slivers?
I hope there are more sliver bullets like Harmonic Sliver, but less sideboard oriented and more token generators!
Edit:
Does Spiteful Sliver's ability stacks?
Not sure if Lavabelly Sliver could be a sideboard against Burn because it cost 3 to gain you 1 life and possibly having to wait a turn to drop more slivers while Eidolon of the Great Revel would still be causing damage, I think it just doesn't affect the game against Burn that much, if it gives 1 point for each sliver you control would be very nice.
I agree, I think Dregscape Sliver gives a much needed edge for slivers to attack with and another option for mana sink along with Sliver Hive, a bit more potential for disruptive slivers like Necrotic Sliver and against some forms of mass removal and maybe a possible narrow way around Blood Moon to put slivers into play depending on the build and situation.
I think that too.
I remember playing with a list like that a couple of years ago, it is really fun indeed!
Not sure if you're still running that list, but maybe you could try adding a combo in there and put some disrupting like you said with Necrotic Sliver could be nice. I would Suggest Something like the following:
2 Basal Sliver
2 Dormant Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Striking Sliver
4 Telekinetic Sliver
2 Quilled Sliver
4 Venom Sliver
2 Necrotic Sliver
3 Diffusion Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
2 Homing Sliver
2x Forest
2x Prismatic Vista
4x Sliver Hive
4x Unclaimed Territory
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Breeding Pool
1x Temple Garden
1x Aether Hub
The Idea here would be to keep you original plan of controlling the board with Telekinetic Sliver and Quilled Sliver with some help from Venom Sliver so you have deathtouch while pin pointing damage on attackers and Necrotic Sliver to remove other troublesome permanents. While I do think Lead the Stampede and Incubation // Incongruity can be nice on your list, I'm not sure how will you mana base will develop and how reliably will you be able to cast those, so I thought that maybe a couple of Homing Slivers could do the trick and grab the sliver you need. I see you use many 1 drop slivers to fill the board and enable the control state you need and maybe use Virulent Sliver to finish the game since there are no sliver that grant attack bonus aside from Bonesplitter Sliver, I would take them away for now at least to add more lands to your mana base so then you can reach 4 mana to cast Telekinetic more easily. Diffusion Sliver for when you're still building your board. Dregscape Sliver, Basal Sliver and Dormant Sliver are there to have a combo as alternative win, if you don't feel like it you could swap Basal Sliver and Dormant Sliver for Screeching Sliver and Sentinel Sliver or 4 Virulent Sliver removing 2 Dregscape Sliver so then you have alternative win conditions if needed and more 1 mana slivers to help get hold of the board with Telekinetic or even 2 Cautery Slivers to combo with Venom Sliver, Lavabelly Sliver could be nice in here too, and I would dare to say to maybe Hollowhead Sliver and Scuttling Sliver could have a place in your list to help digging the pieces you need and use your lands to untap slivers and tapping more permanents with Telekinetic, but I think at least 2 Dregscape Sliver should stay in the main deck. Just an idea.
I hope it help!
I tried Root Maze in hope my opponents would be playing with fetchlands (fetch comes tapped and the land fetched comes tapped as well) or artifacts and that with a deck with low mana curve, I could play aggro along with the symmetric effect as my opponent struggles with mana and make slivers more difficult to target when Diffusion Sliver was on the field. Just a test. The colorless cost of Adaptive Automaton looks great for my mana base, I'm just not such on it since it cost 3 manas, I considered Metallic Mimic in it's place.
Nice one that Unearth Sliver!
So if I get Manaweft Sliver, Basal Sliver, Beck and the new Unearth Sliver, I could tap slivers for mana, sacrifice them for more mana and draw 2 cards for each sliver cast and unearthed and maybe draw my entire deck while netting mana, and even on turn 3 if goldfishing hard. But I'm not such if the mana base could support Beck just like my old build was not consistent to cast Root Maze, but it could be a nice combo.
Maybe using Mindlash Sliver or Homing Sliver to discard a Plague Sliver, Megantic or one of The Legendary Slivers and unearth it for 2 seems nice.
Do you think Dregscape Sliver (unearth) would be better suited in a Fast Sliver, Collected Sliver list or could it open a third line in between with mana slivers?
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Serum Visions
3 Merchant Scroll
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
4 Flux Channeler
4 Twiddle
4 Dramatic Reversal
4 Time Reversal
2 Gigadrowse
18 Island
not sure if I would go with this or a Arcane version of it like:
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
4x Dispel
4x Flux Channeler
18x Island
4x Opt
4x Peer Through Depths
2x Petals of Insight
4x Psychic Puppetry
4x Reach Through Mists
4x Sleight of Hand
4x Time Reversal
2x Toils of Night and Day
1x Wipe Away
You just put Astral Cornucopia with a counter on it and Flux Channeler into play and go on Splicing Psychic Puppetry into Arcane spells until you can cast Blue Sun's Zenith into your opponent for lethal.
Petals of Insight and Psychic Puppetry makes a loop if you got at least six counters.
anyway just an idea, it's kinda of a control-combo, where you could use Gigadrowse at your opponents end step to tap all their lands, so then you could combo more safely with Dispel just in case.
2 Striking Sliver
2 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Diffusion Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
1 Manaweft Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Frenzy Sliver
2 Leeching Sliver
3 Blur Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Galerider Sliver
3 Root Maze
2 Lead the Stampede
Lands:
4 Sliver Hive
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 AEther Hub
1 Llanowar Wastes
5 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Warping Wail
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Cautery Sliver
1 Venom Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Ghostflame Sliver
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Damping Sphere
Game 1 - Naya Aggro
1-2
round 1: He casted 3 creatures and removed 2 slivers, I casted sliver after sliver and overwhelmed his removals.
round 2: he mulliganed to 5, and on turn 3 had 5 creatures on the field and beated me before a casted a third sliver.
round 3: can't remember clearly, we had at least 3 creatures on each side of the board, I couldn't find more slivers that granted +1/+1, I was drawing lands, I guess, and he beated me with Wild Nacatls.
Game 2 - Hardened Scales
1-2
round 1: inkmothed with Ravager and Scales counters.
round 2: I casted Root Maze turn 1, he struggled to get anything on board but 3 Scales, I attacked, he manages to find Walking Ballista which came with X plus 3 counters, removed my slivers, casted another Ballista, I found 2 Harmonic Sliver and the Slivers beated him.
round 3: He uses Scales and Walking Ballista to remove my board and attacked with a buffed Hangar.
Game 3 - Pili-Pala Combo
0-2
he didn't get to combo neither games, I found 2 Harmonic Slivers, but he end up winning with Wurmcoil Engines and taking control of some of my slivers.
Game 4 - G Tron
1-2
round 1: Karned turn 3.
round 2: he started slow, I casted Sinew Sliver, then a Predatory Sliver and then a Leeching Sliver and beat him before he assembles Tron.
round 3: My hand was 1 Forest, 2 Unclaimed Territory, 1 AEther Hub, 1 Crumble to Dust, 1 Telekinetic Sliver, 1 Diffusion Sliver, He had 2 Urza's Tower, 1 Urza's Power Plant and 1 Urza's Mine and a Oblivion Stone on board on turn 4, but don't have anything to cast with it, I used Crumble to Dust on Urza's Power Plant, I would call for the Tower, but Crumble won't remove the second copy which is already on the field, so I choose another one so then it would be more difficult to find more lands on top of the deck, he responded sacrificing Oblivion Stone removing 3 slivers, after that I thought I should go aggro to finish the game so I played Sinew Sliver and Predatory Sliver and was attacked for 2 turns, he was collecting lands and found All is Dust, slivers to grave, I continue to cast slivers and attack, he found the second Oblivion Stone, more sliver to grave and casted a Wurmcoil Engine, I decided to go the Telekinetic Sliver route so I casted it, he attacked, I found a Diffusion Sliver and casted it, he casted another Wurmcoil Engine and a third Oblivion Stone and attacked with the first, on his turn I cycled Homing Sliver and took a Harmonic Sliver, casted it on my turn targeting the Stone he responded sacrificing the Stone, Wurmcoils and Slivers to grave, Harmonic comes and take a wurm token, he attacks again and I loose.
Root Maze was fine to play with even being a bad top deck card, but I thought I would have the opportunity to test it against more decks with fetch lands.
I'm probably going Fast Slivers from now on, but still would miss Gemhide Sliver / Manaweft Sliver, Diffusion Sliver and Necrotic Sliver.
I was considering a list like this:
4 Striking Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Frenzy Sliver
4 Leeching Sliver
2 Spined Sliver
3 Blur Sliver
1 Firewake Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Galerider Sliver
3 Root Maze
2 Lead the Stampede
2 Dismember
Lands:
4 Sliver Hive
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 AEther Hub
1 Llanowar Wastes
5 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Warping Wail
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Cautery Sliver
1 Venom Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Ghostflame Sliver
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Damping Sphere
I would like to test it a bit more in a Fast Slivers shell. Maybe it would be better in a more dedicated list.
About the Leyline of Sanctity, there is Detection Tower which could be helpful too.
Since the spoiler of Blast Zone, I rebuilding my list and trying to see how many copies of it would be good. I tried to make a version which could work like a control deck through utility lands, so them I could reduce the number of mulligans and still play along if the spells got handled by countermagic of something.
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Seismic Assault
2 Molten Vortex
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Slagstorm
Lands:
1 Tolaria West
4 Blast Zone
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Quicksand
4 Halimar Depths
2 Ramunap Ruins
2 Scavenger Grounds
4 Desert of the Fervent
2 Desert of the Mindful
2 Hostile Desert
2 Ghitu Encampment
2 Thespian's Stage
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Highland Lake
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
3 Mountain
1 Island
3 Detection Tower
1 Lightning Storm
4 Nephalia Academy
4 Desert
1 By Force
2 Abrade
Tolaria West is there to help find Blast Zone an other utility lands needed.
Blast Zone looks alike it will be helpful to remove some permanents.
Thespian's Stage is there to copy Blast Zone but with no counters, so them you can remove tokens without casting spells.
Desolate Lighthouse and Sea Gate Wreckage is there to help dig the deck for and answer or combo piece.
Reliquary Tower for when I cast Treasure Hunt before Seismic Assault.
Detection Tower to help against Hexproof effects like Leyline of Sanctity, Simic Charm, Witchbane Orb, Orbs of Warding, Aegis of the Gods or boggle decks.
Lightning Storm in case other win cons are removed or neutralized with Pithing Needle, Sorcerous Spyglass or Phyrexian Revoker
Nephalia Academy to help against discard.
Desert as an attempt of control against creature decks and increase the Desert count for Scavenger Grounds and Ramunap Ruins.
This is the general idea of what I'm trying to build, a bit rough in the edges but it looks quite fine, to me at least, I still have to test Swans of Bryn Argoll, Countryside Crusher and Day's Undoing, but I wanted to keep a high count of lands in the deck. And the sideboard is just a sketch.
4 Smallpox
4 Duress
4 Forked Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Terrarion
3 Boom // Bust
3 Lingering Souls
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
2 Abrade
3 Gurmag Angler
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Graven Cairns
1 Godless Shrine
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Dunes of the Dead
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Nomad Outpost
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Crumble to Dust
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Ruinous Path
1 Terminate
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Erase
Game 1 - Izzet Mages
2-0
Roughly it's a deck that uses Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Magus of the Moon and Snapcaster Mageto lock the opponents game and gain advantage. There was a Silumgar Sorcerer and Delver of Secrets too, but I can't remember clearly this game.
t1: I cast Boom // Bust on his steam vents on second turn, Forked Bolt his Jace and Crack the Earth another land and Smallpox his Lavamancer and last land, he conceded.
t2: I played Mycosynth Wellspring on second turn, he cast a Jace, I Abraded it and Crack the Earth for Wellspring and his land, he passed I played a land and Lingering Souls he Remanded it and I passed, he Lightning Bolted me and passed, I played Souls again and passedhe played Grim Lavamancer and passed, I played Pyromancer and Crack the Earth sacing a land from both sides and generating a token from Pyromancer, he killed Pyromancer with Lavamancer and passed, I attacked with the tokens he cast Snapcaster for Bolt on me and I Forked Bolt the Snapcaster and Lavamancer and passed, he draw a card and passed, I play Dunes of the Dead and Boom//Bust it and one of his lands and he conceded.
As I remember he needed 3 lands to play and was struggling to find lands both games. I remember casting a Duress and he had Magus of the Moon, 2 Ionize and another 3 drop.
Game 2 - Hardened Affinity
2-1
t1: I lost to a Etched Champion with counters from 3 Arcbound Ravagers as I couldn't find Smallpox.
t2: I Duress his Springleaf Drum he played a land and casted a Arcbound Worker, I Smallpoxed them both, he struggle to find another land, I cast Gurmag Angler and won with it before he could have board presence.
t3: He started slow, I Erased one Hardened Scales, he played another and a Arcbound Worker followed by a second Worker, I casted Smallpox he sacrificed a Worker and transfered the counters to the other making it a 5/5, he attacked me for 5, I casted Gurmag and passed, he draw a card and did not attacked, I Abraded the Worker and attacked with Gurmag, he cast a Steel Overseer I casted a Zealous Persecution on his turn to kill the Oversir, I attacked and passed, he casted a Sparring Construct and passed, I played Faithless Looting kept a Forked Bolt and a Anger of the Gods, used Forked Bolt on the Construct and 1 point on him, attacked and passed, he casted 2 artifact creatures (can't remember which) and passed, I played Anger of the Gods and attack again.
Game 3 - Boros Humans
1-2
t1: I casted Smallpox followed by a Boom // Bust on next turn and he conceded.
t2 and t3: on game 2 I had a Anger of the Gods on hand and felt like I should hold it in my hand a bit because he could have some answer to it, I fail to followed my instinct, casted Anger which was answer with a Boros Charm making his permanents indestructible and it was downhill from there. Both games I was not sure if should remove his creatures first, or his lands, or dropping Pyromancer, tried to remove his lands and but he had plenty and lost.
Game 4 - Pili-Pala Combo
1-2
t1:Didn't know what I was playing against, started with Crack the Earth on Dunes of the Dead and a land of his making a Zombie Token, he played Pili-Pala and I remembered there was a combo with that card so I Forked Bolt it, cast Faithless Looting, Gurmag Angler and managed to win before he stablishes the combo.
t2: I've made a mistake tried to cast Gurmag earlier and instead of removing his permanents with a Pyromancer in play, lost my own resources and the game right after.
t3: I felt I should have had a mulligan, but kept a hand with Forked Bolt, Crack the Earth, Lingering Souls, Faithless Looting and lands, I couldn't keep him out of resources, I had one Erase on hand thinking that he would cast something like a Rest in Peace, draw lands for 5 turns and lost to my own Gurmag which he manages to take control of.
I've made a couple of mistakes like not playing the land of the turn and not casting Terrarion when had mana left, and I need more practice playing with Young Pyromancer, timing is very important in this build and spending a turn to cast Pyromancer instead of removing permanents or holding Crack the Earth or Smallpox to cast Pyromancer with 3 lands in play may cause a game loss, but playing those spells early may not be as meaningful as if you had the Pyromancer already in play, causing a game loss too.
For sideboard I usually remove a Faithless Loting, a Duress and some Boom // Bust depending on what I'm against. And I should replace that Erase for something else.
I really liked playing Mardu Smallpox, I'll try to play it better next time or with less misplays at least and I hope to see more cards for this strategy in the upcoming sets and that more people give this deck a try and have as much fun as I have playing it.
By the way, what do you think about Mayhem Devil, Angrath's Rampage and Liliana's Triumph from the spoilers of War of the Spark? seems like it could be interesting addition to the deck or at least to some version of this deck.