@NineInchNall Thanks for stopping by. Do you mind posting your Niv 3.0 list if you have one? Rough draft is fine.
Speaking of Comet Storm, I cut it about a year ago. In four years of playing it, I'd cast it twice without already having my deck in my hands. In that situation, I can win without it, so it went buh-bye.
Yeah, this has bothered me too, and I have considered cutting it many times. The reason I haven't I guess is that it's such a simple and elegant win-con. Like you said above, other win-cons can get tedious and convoluted. But I'm curious as to what your preferred win-con is when you have your library in your hand if it's not Inner Fire / Comet Storm?
A possible alternative I've considered is swapping out both of those cards for Spiraling Embers and making sure I can copy or recur it indefinitely. That would at least free up one slot while still offering us a simple and elegant win con. Unlike Comet Storm and Inner Fire, Spiraling Embers actually hits pretty hard on it's own and so can be used earlier to more effect even if we don't have our library in our hands. It's also a bit less fragile since if either Comet Storm or Inner Fire gets exiled it renders the other half of the combo much less useful. It can also totally knock a player out on it's own without being recurred or copied. You just need 40 cards in hand. If you CAN recur or copy it at least once, you only need 20 cards in hand to kill one player.
With how quickly they accelerate you to Archive/Engine/Lotus/Omniscience/Sphinx, Mana Vault and Grim Monolith are still bonkers. They also make great Transmute Artifact fodder for fetching one of the 5-drop artifacts, especially Grim.
That's a fair point but I think the situation we were trying to avoid is needing to cast Niv 3.0 and having just those colorless mana rocks out with nothing else to cast. In my above list, I simply swapped out Monolith and Vault for Coalition Relic and Chromatic Lantern. I may still need to add something like Prismatic Lens or Izzet Signet. I feel pretty good about those swaps because sometimes I struggle to get the colors I need. It sucks to just lack one U for a counterspell.
Commit // Memory definitely looks solid, albeit a bit inefficient CMC wise. I think I will be picking one up. I would certainly use it over Venser or Time Reversal
I think I will give Argivian Restoration a run. I agree with your points on that.
Reality Shift could very well be worth a slot with Scepter in the deck. But, I will say that my instincts are telling me that removal in commander should either be en masse or at least be flexible (Vindicate). The only thing Reality Shift has going for it as far as I can tell is that it can be put on the stick. Without the stick, I would personally run Chaos Warp over it because of the greater flexibility. Reality Shift can't deal with a horde of infinite saprolings (unless it of course also goes infinite), nor can it deal with enchantments, artifacts, or lands. I'd almost be inclined to run something like Boomerang over Reality Shift. It can be sticked and is totally flexible. But yes, removal is largely playgroup specific... so maybe this is a moot point.
I think Aetherflux Reservoir deserves a chat. I'm curious what your experience with it has been. For a while, I've really wanted some life gain in the deck, hence Ivory Tower. I know it's not in my above list, but I'm running it in my paper deck. I don't really see myself using both Reservoir and the Tower. Both certainly have their merits. I really like that the Reservoir can be a win con but I also find it a bit win-more, given the combos that enable it. I think Tower has the potential to gain us more life with a smaller investment, and it really gets crazy with Alhammarret's Archive. With this combo in play with 10 cards in hand, you will be gaining 12 life, passively, on your upkeep, with no mana investment. For the goal of life gain, I think Tower serves better. I feel that by the time we have the setup to really enable Reservoir, we should be winning anyway. Additionally, Reservoir has more of bullseye on it, and I foresee it getting blown up before we have a chance to really make use of it. Those are just my feelings on it, but I've never played with it.
Do you feel like Memory Jar has a place in this list? I'm thinking that with all the artifact tutors and recursion, it might be. I will admit that I've actually never played with it before. I hope it gets a reprint at some point.
That's about all I've got in me for tonight. Thanks for discussing this with me! I'm hoping other will chime in soon
This will then create an army of flying Swan tokens, as noted in Step 8 I believe, so that you can do your best re-enactment of Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds and kill every opponent. Depending on how much mana you can generate via your mana rock(s), you can also incidentally create infinite mana this way.
That is hilarious!
Well, I certainly love the Isochron Scepter /Paradox Engine combo. You've got me sold there, and I will definitely be picking up these cards soon. Both cards are powerful on their own, they are easily tutorable, they are cost effective, and the combos with them already fit well into the deck. Icing on the cake: artifacts are recurable with Academy Ruins so I don't mind horribly if I discard them as I can still get them back later. I don't see any immediate downsides to these cards at all at.
I think that running more artifacts definitely makes Reshape a pretty viable tutor.
With all due respect, I think I'd like to caution you on the switch of strategies for Niv. I do not know what you rplaygroup is like and nor do I know the politics of said playgroup, but Niv's casting cost is STEEP. Being able to cast him AND protect him is going to take a lot of colored mana symbols on a consistent basis. And I personally wonder if you will be able to have enough time to have enough mana (from lands and mana rocks) to cast the Parun AND protect him, as you've described, within the first 6 turns of the game (I wish I had that much time to set up!). Because the Parun is so difficult to cast consistently I would tend to view him as an infinite combo outlet, and treat him as such, instead of a lynch-pin of my strategy. I know the infinite draw combos may feel like dead pieces (and they are, in certain gamestates), but I think that they offer an angle of attack that would be a mistake not to include with Niv.
You've likely been playing Magic a lot more than I have lately. I am pretty behind with the current meta, but I'm trying to get myself up to speed. I think that our playstyles do diverge a bit, which is totally fine. Over time, I've shifted more from combo to control with this particular deck because I feel like we don't have access to some of the bomb tutors other colors have, nor do we have the kind of mana acceleration that a color like green offers. I think my paper version of the deck currently runs around 12 counterspells and maybe 5 wipes/removals. I am also strongly considering cards like Propaganda.
Over the 7 years or so that I've been playing this deck, I have gone back and forth on the infinite draw combos with Niv more times than I can count. For a long time I was ONLY running Curiosity because it was the MOST efficient combo card available to us, and largely the most iconic like you explained. When it worked, it usually wins me the game, and when it doesn't, well, not much is lost because it's only one card in the deck. I am running the Sensei's Divining Top / Future Sight / Helm of Awakening infinite draw combo because all of the pieces are powerful on their own (except possibly the Helm, which I will likely be finding a replacement for).
I will mostly likely be including at least Curiosity in the new iteration of this deck. I guess I agree that not including it or any infinite draw combos with Niv would be handicapping the deck since it is a 2 piece combo with Niv, and people generally expect those cards to be present. However, I don't want to focus too much on that. One of my goals is to streamline the deck, which means cutting out some of the combos that don't work quite as well, are fragile, or just difficult to set up.
I don't view Niv 3.0 as being a lynch pin of the deck at all. Perhaps I didn't express that concept very well earlier, or I came off as being overly excited about the card. The deck as it currently exists, stands very well on it's own without the commander, but I was finding that having Firemind as the commander was starting to become a handicap since I rarely cast him and wasn't really focusing on the infinite combos. I guess I tend to view Niv-Mizzet, Parun as yet another draw engine that happens to reside in our command zone. This is great because it gives the deck more consistency. Being a creature, Consecrated Sphinx isn't the easiest thing to tutor for in these colors. The goal of my deck is currently "draw as many cards as quickly as possible while keeping the rest of the table under control." The Parun helps helps fulfill that goal quite well I think but doesn't become a glass cannon, since the rest of the deck also gets us there.
As a win condition, Niv 3.0 certainly works, but the kind of multiplayer games I typically find myself in, I feel a lot more confident with a win con LIKE Reiterate / Inner Fire / Comet Storm or Omniscience / Mindmoil where it can kill players regardless of life totals and says "I win" very loudly and clearly without having to play it through tediously. I hesitate to lean too much toward Niv as being my win con or focusing on the infinite draw combos for the very reasons you stated. His color heavy cost is restrictive, and he's a creature (vulnerable to creature removal). BUT, I do view him as being a valuable tool to getting us where we need to go by drawing us a ton of cards.
I acknowledge I'm probably contradicting myself here a bit based on my previous posts. I think without actually playtesting Niv 3.0 my perspective on him will be limited, but I do see him as a clear upgrade to Firemind and a card that I am much more motivated to cast and protect. But I don't think I will be relying on him as a win condition or even as the primary method of drawing my deck.
Anyway, I'm happy to agree to disagree on these points with you for now. We should both build the deck as we see fit. Later modifications will arise out of the fires of competitive playtesting in the real world! You very well could be right on a few points.
One thing I'm looking at now is increasing synergy with Isochron Scepter without lessening the power of the deck. There are plenty of cards that are good scepter targets but not necessarily that powerful on their own. I don't really like single target removal spells for this reason... (such as Lightning Bolt) I will have to think on this.
Generally, I see the deck shifting more towards casting Niv and protecting him, more like a typical commander would work. This naturally pushes the deck towards being more control oriented. I think we will get a lot of mileage out of cards like Gilded Lotus and Chromatic Lantern which give us colored mana. In fact I definitely foresee adding more mana rocks since they combo so well with Paradox Engine and are so crucial to getting Niv out as early as possible. However, I am a bit suspicious of the red rituals in this format because of their use-once nature.
Another way this deck can get ahead of the rest of the table is extra turns. I particularly like Temporal Trespass and Temporal Mastery because we can set them up to be very cheap. These are followed by Temporal Manipulation and Time Warp in efficiency, but often more reliable. Plea for Power might have some potential, but generally not early game although 3 cards for 4 isn't too bad. It can save the table late game though, which is kind of cool. Savor the Moment is good early game but not great later on. Walk the Aeons really isn't too bad either, especially good late game.
I personally will be steering away from the infinite draw combos. They are no doubt powerful, but I really dislike how they can become dead draws. I've found that in more competitive play, I much prefer to be holding a counter or removal spell than these. Therefore, I will be trying to make the most of Niv 3.0's innate card drawing strength. When paired with Alhammarret's Archive things can get out of hand very quickly! The most I would consider doing is including Enter the Infinite since it works so well with Mizzix's Mastery and can be fairly easily tutored for.
My strategy more and more is to control the game until I can comfortably win, rather than going for those explosive early wins. I just find that it isn't that fun and generally draws hate in future games. I like to spend my first six turns or so building up my handsize and resources, while protecting myself and others at the table from other people's early wins.
And I like Paradox Engine a lot. I'm definitely going to give it a spin. I could see it potentially replacing Dream Halls even. The universal effect of Dream Halls, although sometimes fun, can also get you killed. Like you said, the engine is more easily tutorable. It also combos nicely with Reiterate which I will most likely be including. You can get infinite draw with Niv or infinite copies of any spell, just as long as you have enough mana rocks to untap each time.
Mission Briefing - I'm really liking this one! It essentially allows us a 2-of Snapcaster Mage We now have a really solid pool of recursion options in UR to draw from which makes me very happy. I've found this strategy to be really powerful with our handcycling suite.
Invert//Invent is interesting... Maybe someday we will get another solid tutor, but I don't think this is it. I loathe that 6cmc, even though we are getting 2 cards. It's just a poor early draw. When compared to Mystical Tutor it's sadly pretty unplayable If it had 3cmc and only got one card I would definitely consider it.
Spellseeker definitely has potential. I really wish she had flash. She fits nicely with the Riptide Laboratory combo cards.
This is pretty much exactly what I would have redesigned Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind to be, except that I would have been called CRAZY because it would have been BROKEN!
I mean, just... look... at... him... It doesn't even say "you MAY draw a card" it says "you (must) draw a card." And his ping can hit pesky planeswalkers directly now!
The 5/5 body is great. It means Niv becomes a better blocker and survives more removal. "Cannot be countered??" Seriously wizards... I'm fearing the banhammer even before the card is released. But there are worse things that remain unbanned *cough**cough* Consecrated Sphinx *cough**cough*
Hi, it's me, Rowan. After seeing the spoiler for Niv 3.0 I felt compelled to come back to my old Primer. I first posted that primer about 6 years ago, wow! I was surprised and happy to see that people were still posting here, so thanks for your continued interest. I am grateful to have a place to discuss any future deck changes!
For a couple years now, I've been gradually arriving at the conclusion that the game has been "moving on" shall we say, and leaving this old deck behind. There are better options for several cards listed in the OP, but I just haven't had much time to update it. Niv-Mizzet 3.0 as we shall call him, is absolutely the epitome of power creep in my opinion. He is better than Firemind in just about every way. But instead of getting frustrated, my reaction has been to embrace him, and here's why:
Recognizing that Firemind now feels very under-powered the current meta, I have been searching for a replacement commander for a while now, considering The Locus God, Arjun, the Shifting Flame or even something like Kess, Dissident Mage that allows me to throw Black into the mix. Black covers a lot of this deck's weaknesses such as removal and tutors, while further strengthening our card draw options. BUT, that just never felt right to me. Certainly, while adding Black would no doubt up the power level of the deck, we would be losing sight of the origins of the deck. Using a different commander that wasn't named Niv-Mizzet just didn't sit well with me!
The original reason I decided to build this deck those 6 years ago was because I loved the character and flavor of Niv-Mizzet, and the deck that I built around him turned out to be pretty powerful. In fact, the reason I first ever became interested in the game at all was the artwork, the characters, and the world the cards depicted.
So, that said, Niv 3.0 meets my needs perfectly. Thank you Wizards! I believe the proper course of action is to officially retire this primer and start a new one, but I don't mind a bit of Brainstorming before I do that seeing as my new commander hasn't even been released to the general public yet! I imagine I will play quite a few games with him before I feel qualified to actually contribute a new primer.
Any thoughts on The Immortal Sun replacing Helm of Awakening? It seems like only upsides for us. Shuts off walkers which we don't use, makes only our spells less, draws more, and makes The Locust God tokens bigger for those that run him.
You know, despite the cost, I really like this card. I will have to try it out to really give you an answer. I definitely appreciate what it brings to the table, and we've got ways to tutor for it and even cheat it directly into play. Certainly worth a run.
At this point, I'm VERY curious about any cards you may have been using to good effect in your own versions of the deck, especially newly released cards. Knowledge is POWER!!
I'm interested in addressing some of the deck's current weak points in the new commander meta, as well as further increasing synergy, efficiency, and consistency. Generally, I think I will be moving away from the explosive win strategy, going more control, and building more around our new commander. To me that is more fun, and more appropriate for this multiplayer format. I've moved away from the glass-cannon deckbuilding approach I used to employ.
I also want to talk about the deck's win conditions. I feel that as much as I like Inner Fire//Comet Storm these 2 cards are often dead draws. I'm hoping that maybe with built in card-draw, our commander will be more central to our strategy and in fact more often BECOME our win condition. In recent games, I barely cast Firemind anymore, and have even taken out the infinite combos as they are too situational.
Some cards that I like are
Mizzix's Mastery - I've already been using this one to GREAT effect. This is the card I always wished Past in Flames was
Forbid - Old but still good. I've been using this to good effect. As long as we have a decent hand size, it can be a powerhouse.
Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery - I feel that competitively it's hard to play without this effect, especially if we are going more the control route. I generally like Orrey better because I can tutor for it.
Chromatic Lantern - I think that this will now become mandatory given the color heavy cost of Niv 3.0 I like having many utility lands, which are often colorless.
Trade Routes - I've come to absolutely love this card. It's a great answer to land destruction while giving us a superb looting effect.
Ivory Tower - In the real world, I often wish I had just a little bit of lifegain. Sometimes 5 life makes the difference between a win and a lose. I find this doesn't draw a ton of hate, it's cheap, and can really stack up to massive gains.
Whir of Invention This is a fantastic tutor in my opinion and works well to enable our stratagems!
Khorvath's Fury - This is a fairly decent hand-cycler. The "plus one" effect definitely matters! Needs testing.
Baral, Chief of Compliance - really solid card. Gives us a cost reducing effect and card draw at a very low investment.
Rebuild - An old card, but a good answer to artifacts getting out of control as well as saving our own in a pinch. Cycling on a removal spell is fantastic, especially with our recursion toolbox.
Mana Vault, Grim Monolith - These cards are glass cannon effects that don't quite do it for me anymore. I feel there are now other options that will give me more mileage throughout the course of the game.
Inner Fire//Comet Storm - While being an iconic win-con for the deck, they are often dead draws. I think it makes sense to really set up our commander up for success. But I could be wrong. Again, needs testing.
Chaos Warp - DEFINITELY coming out. Only hits one target, can pull out something worse, and doesn't tuck commanders anymore.
Yeah, this has bothered me too, and I have considered cutting it many times. The reason I haven't I guess is that it's such a simple and elegant win-con. Like you said above, other win-cons can get tedious and convoluted. But I'm curious as to what your preferred win-con is when you have your library in your hand if it's not Inner Fire / Comet Storm?
A possible alternative I've considered is swapping out both of those cards for Spiraling Embers and making sure I can copy or recur it indefinitely. That would at least free up one slot while still offering us a simple and elegant win con. Unlike Comet Storm and Inner Fire, Spiraling Embers actually hits pretty hard on it's own and so can be used earlier to more effect even if we don't have our library in our hands. It's also a bit less fragile since if either Comet Storm or Inner Fire gets exiled it renders the other half of the combo much less useful. It can also totally knock a player out on it's own without being recurred or copied. You just need 40 cards in hand. If you CAN recur or copy it at least once, you only need 20 cards in hand to kill one player.
That's a fair point but I think the situation we were trying to avoid is needing to cast Niv 3.0 and having just those colorless mana rocks out with nothing else to cast. In my above list, I simply swapped out Monolith and Vault for Coalition Relic and Chromatic Lantern. I may still need to add something like Prismatic Lens or Izzet Signet. I feel pretty good about those swaps because sometimes I struggle to get the colors I need. It sucks to just lack one U for a counterspell.
Commit // Memory definitely looks solid, albeit a bit inefficient CMC wise. I think I will be picking one up. I would certainly use it over Venser or Time Reversal
Reality Shift could very well be worth a slot with Scepter in the deck. But, I will say that my instincts are telling me that removal in commander should either be en masse or at least be flexible (Vindicate). The only thing Reality Shift has going for it as far as I can tell is that it can be put on the stick. Without the stick, I would personally run Chaos Warp over it because of the greater flexibility. Reality Shift can't deal with a horde of infinite saprolings (unless it of course also goes infinite), nor can it deal with enchantments, artifacts, or lands. I'd almost be inclined to run something like Boomerang over Reality Shift. It can be sticked and is totally flexible. But yes, removal is largely playgroup specific... so maybe this is a moot point.
I think Aetherflux Reservoir deserves a chat. I'm curious what your experience with it has been. For a while, I've really wanted some life gain in the deck, hence Ivory Tower. I know it's not in my above list, but I'm running it in my paper deck. I don't really see myself using both Reservoir and the Tower. Both certainly have their merits. I really like that the Reservoir can be a win con but I also find it a bit win-more, given the combos that enable it. I think Tower has the potential to gain us more life with a smaller investment, and it really gets crazy with Alhammarret's Archive. With this combo in play with 10 cards in hand, you will be gaining 12 life, passively, on your upkeep, with no mana investment. For the goal of life gain, I think Tower serves better. I feel that by the time we have the setup to really enable Reservoir, we should be winning anyway. Additionally, Reservoir has more of bullseye on it, and I foresee it getting blown up before we have a chance to really make use of it. Those are just my feelings on it, but I've never played with it.
Do you feel like Memory Jar has a place in this list? I'm thinking that with all the artifact tutors and recursion, it might be. I will admit that I've actually never played with it before. I hope it gets a reprint at some point.
That's about all I've got in me for tonight. Thanks for discussing this with me! I'm hoping other will chime in soon
That is hilarious!
Well, I certainly love the Isochron Scepter /Paradox Engine combo. You've got me sold there, and I will definitely be picking up these cards soon. Both cards are powerful on their own, they are easily tutorable, they are cost effective, and the combos with them already fit well into the deck. Icing on the cake: artifacts are recurable with Academy Ruins so I don't mind horribly if I discard them as I can still get them back later. I don't see any immediate downsides to these cards at all at.
I think that running more artifacts definitely makes Reshape a pretty viable tutor.
You've likely been playing Magic a lot more than I have lately. I am pretty behind with the current meta, but I'm trying to get myself up to speed. I think that our playstyles do diverge a bit, which is totally fine. Over time, I've shifted more from combo to control with this particular deck because I feel like we don't have access to some of the bomb tutors other colors have, nor do we have the kind of mana acceleration that a color like green offers. I think my paper version of the deck currently runs around 12 counterspells and maybe 5 wipes/removals. I am also strongly considering cards like Propaganda.
Over the 7 years or so that I've been playing this deck, I have gone back and forth on the infinite draw combos with Niv more times than I can count. For a long time I was ONLY running Curiosity because it was the MOST efficient combo card available to us, and largely the most iconic like you explained. When it worked, it usually wins me the game, and when it doesn't, well, not much is lost because it's only one card in the deck. I am running the Sensei's Divining Top / Future Sight / Helm of Awakening infinite draw combo because all of the pieces are powerful on their own (except possibly the Helm, which I will likely be finding a replacement for).
I will mostly likely be including at least Curiosity in the new iteration of this deck. I guess I agree that not including it or any infinite draw combos with Niv would be handicapping the deck since it is a 2 piece combo with Niv, and people generally expect those cards to be present. However, I don't want to focus too much on that. One of my goals is to streamline the deck, which means cutting out some of the combos that don't work quite as well, are fragile, or just difficult to set up.
I don't view Niv 3.0 as being a lynch pin of the deck at all. Perhaps I didn't express that concept very well earlier, or I came off as being overly excited about the card. The deck as it currently exists, stands very well on it's own without the commander, but I was finding that having Firemind as the commander was starting to become a handicap since I rarely cast him and wasn't really focusing on the infinite combos. I guess I tend to view Niv-Mizzet, Parun as yet another draw engine that happens to reside in our command zone. This is great because it gives the deck more consistency. Being a creature, Consecrated Sphinx isn't the easiest thing to tutor for in these colors. The goal of my deck is currently "draw as many cards as quickly as possible while keeping the rest of the table under control." The Parun helps helps fulfill that goal quite well I think but doesn't become a glass cannon, since the rest of the deck also gets us there.
As a win condition, Niv 3.0 certainly works, but the kind of multiplayer games I typically find myself in, I feel a lot more confident with a win con LIKE Reiterate / Inner Fire / Comet Storm or Omniscience / Mindmoil where it can kill players regardless of life totals and says "I win" very loudly and clearly without having to play it through tediously. I hesitate to lean too much toward Niv as being my win con or focusing on the infinite draw combos for the very reasons you stated. His color heavy cost is restrictive, and he's a creature (vulnerable to creature removal). BUT, I do view him as being a valuable tool to getting us where we need to go by drawing us a ton of cards.
I acknowledge I'm probably contradicting myself here a bit based on my previous posts. I think without actually playtesting Niv 3.0 my perspective on him will be limited, but I do see him as a clear upgrade to Firemind and a card that I am much more motivated to cast and protect. But I don't think I will be relying on him as a win condition or even as the primary method of drawing my deck.
Anyway, I'm happy to agree to disagree on these points with you for now. We should both build the deck as we see fit. Later modifications will arise out of the fires of competitive playtesting in the real world! You very well could be right on a few points.
Here is a tentative decklist:
1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
MANA PRODUCTION
1 Mana Crypt
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Sol Ring
1 Coalition Relic
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Thran Dynamo
DUAL LANDS
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Shivan Reef
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
UTILITY LANDS
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Riptide Laboratory
FETCH LANDS
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Island (6)
1 Mountain (4)
REMOVAL
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Evacuation
1 All is Dust
1 Rebuild
CONTROL
1 Pact of Negation
1 Remand
1 Counterspell
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mana Drain
1 Counterbalance
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Cryptic Command
1 Force of Will
1 Forbid
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
RECURSION
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Mission Briefing
1 Shreds of Sanity
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Crucible of Worlds
TUTORS
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Spellseeker
1 Fabricate
1 Intuition
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Whir of Invention
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Winds of Change
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Scroll Rack
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Time Spiral
TOP DECK CONTROL/HAND IMPROVEMENT
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Faithless Looting
1 Impulse
1 Trade Routes
1 Frantic Search
1 Future Sight
HAND FATTENING
1 Curiosity
1 Rhystic Study
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Alhammarret's Archive
MISC/COMBO
1 Paradox Engine
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Inner Fire
1 Comet Storm
1 Increasing Vengeance
EXTRA TURNS
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Temporal Mastery
One thing I'm looking at now is increasing synergy with Isochron Scepter without lessening the power of the deck. There are plenty of cards that are good scepter targets but not necessarily that powerful on their own. I don't really like single target removal spells for this reason... (such as Lightning Bolt) I will have to think on this.
What are your feelings on Daretti, Scrap Savant or Argivian Restoration?
Generally, I see the deck shifting more towards casting Niv and protecting him, more like a typical commander would work. This naturally pushes the deck towards being more control oriented. I think we will get a lot of mileage out of cards like Gilded Lotus and Chromatic Lantern which give us colored mana. In fact I definitely foresee adding more mana rocks since they combo so well with Paradox Engine and are so crucial to getting Niv out as early as possible. However, I am a bit suspicious of the red rituals in this format because of their use-once nature.
Another way this deck can get ahead of the rest of the table is extra turns. I particularly like Temporal Trespass and Temporal Mastery because we can set them up to be very cheap. These are followed by Temporal Manipulation and Time Warp in efficiency, but often more reliable. Plea for Power might have some potential, but generally not early game although 3 cards for 4 isn't too bad. It can save the table late game though, which is kind of cool. Savor the Moment is good early game but not great later on. Walk the Aeons really isn't too bad either, especially good late game.
I personally will be steering away from the infinite draw combos. They are no doubt powerful, but I really dislike how they can become dead draws. I've found that in more competitive play, I much prefer to be holding a counter or removal spell than these. Therefore, I will be trying to make the most of Niv 3.0's innate card drawing strength. When paired with Alhammarret's Archive things can get out of hand very quickly! The most I would consider doing is including Enter the Infinite since it works so well with Mizzix's Mastery and can be fairly easily tutored for.
My strategy more and more is to control the game until I can comfortably win, rather than going for those explosive early wins. I just find that it isn't that fun and generally draws hate in future games. I like to spend my first six turns or so building up my handsize and resources, while protecting myself and others at the table from other people's early wins.
And I like Paradox Engine a lot. I'm definitely going to give it a spin. I could see it potentially replacing Dream Halls even. The universal effect of Dream Halls, although sometimes fun, can also get you killed. Like you said, the engine is more easily tutorable. It also combos nicely with Reiterate which I will most likely be including. You can get infinite draw with Niv or infinite copies of any spell, just as long as you have enough mana rocks to untap each time.
Mission Briefing - I'm really liking this one! It essentially allows us a 2-of Snapcaster Mage We now have a really solid pool of recursion options in UR to draw from which makes me very happy. I've found this strategy to be really powerful with our handcycling suite.
Invert//Invent is interesting... Maybe someday we will get another solid tutor, but I don't think this is it. I loathe that 6cmc, even though we are getting 2 cards. It's just a poor early draw. When compared to Mystical Tutor it's sadly pretty unplayable
Spellseeker definitely has potential. I really wish she had flash. She fits nicely with the Riptide Laboratory combo cards.
So.... much... POWER!
This is pretty much exactly what I would have redesigned Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind to be, except that I would have been called CRAZY because it would have been BROKEN!
I mean, just... look... at... him... It doesn't even say "you MAY draw a card" it says "you (must) draw a card." And his ping can hit pesky planeswalkers directly now!
The 5/5 body is great. It means Niv becomes a better blocker and survives more removal. "Cannot be countered??" Seriously wizards... I'm fearing the banhammer even before the card is released. But there are worse things that remain unbanned *cough**cough* Consecrated Sphinx *cough**cough*
Hi, it's me, Rowan.
For a couple years now, I've been gradually arriving at the conclusion that the game has been "moving on" shall we say, and leaving this old deck behind. There are better options for several cards listed in the OP, but I just haven't had much time to update it. Niv-Mizzet 3.0 as we shall call him, is absolutely the epitome of power creep in my opinion. He is better than Firemind in just about every way. But instead of getting frustrated, my reaction has been to embrace him, and here's why:
Recognizing that Firemind now feels very under-powered the current meta, I have been searching for a replacement commander for a while now, considering The Locus God, Arjun, the Shifting Flame or even something like Kess, Dissident Mage that allows me to throw Black into the mix. Black covers a lot of this deck's weaknesses such as removal and tutors, while further strengthening our card draw options. BUT, that just never felt right to me. Certainly, while adding Black would no doubt up the power level of the deck, we would be losing sight of the origins of the deck. Using a different commander that wasn't named Niv-Mizzet just didn't sit well with me!
The original reason I decided to build this deck those 6 years ago was because I loved the character and flavor of Niv-Mizzet, and the deck that I built around him turned out to be pretty powerful. In fact, the reason I first ever became interested in the game at all was the artwork, the characters, and the world the cards depicted.
So, that said, Niv 3.0 meets my needs perfectly. Thank you Wizards! I believe the proper course of action is to officially retire this primer and start a new one, but I don't mind a bit of Brainstorming before I do that seeing as my new commander hasn't even been released to the general public yet! I imagine I will play quite a few games with him before I feel qualified to actually contribute a new primer.
You know, despite the cost, I really like this card. I will have to try it out to really give you an answer. I definitely appreciate what it brings to the table, and we've got ways to tutor for it and even cheat it directly into play. Certainly worth a run.
At this point, I'm VERY curious about any cards you may have been using to good effect in your own versions of the deck, especially newly released cards. Knowledge is POWER!!
I'm interested in addressing some of the deck's current weak points in the new commander meta, as well as further increasing synergy, efficiency, and consistency. Generally, I think I will be moving away from the explosive win strategy, going more control, and building more around our new commander. To me that is more fun, and more appropriate for this multiplayer format. I've moved away from the glass-cannon deckbuilding approach I used to employ.
I also want to talk about the deck's win conditions. I feel that as much as I like Inner Fire//Comet Storm these 2 cards are often dead draws. I'm hoping that maybe with built in card-draw, our commander will be more central to our strategy and in fact more often BECOME our win condition. In recent games, I barely cast Firemind anymore, and have even taken out the infinite combos as they are too situational.
Some cards that I like are
Mizzix's Mastery - I've already been using this one to GREAT effect. This is the card I always wished Past in Flames was
Forbid - Old but still good. I've been using this to good effect. As long as we have a decent hand size, it can be a powerhouse.
Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery - I feel that competitively it's hard to play without this effect, especially if we are going more the control route. I generally like Orrey better because I can tutor for it.
Shreds of Sanity - Gives us some great value.
Chromatic Lantern - I think that this will now become mandatory given the color heavy cost of Niv 3.0 I like having many utility lands, which are often colorless.
Trade Routes - I've come to absolutely love this card. It's a great answer to land destruction while giving us a superb looting effect.
Ivory Tower - In the real world, I often wish I had just a little bit of lifegain. Sometimes 5 life makes the difference between a win and a lose. I find this doesn't draw a ton of hate, it's cheap, and can really stack up to massive gains.
Whir of Invention This is a fantastic tutor in my opinion and works well to enable our stratagems!
Khorvath's Fury - This is a fairly decent hand-cycler. The "plus one" effect definitely matters! Needs testing.
Baral, Chief of Compliance - really solid card. Gives us a cost reducing effect and card draw at a very low investment.
Rebuild - An old card, but a good answer to artifacts getting out of control as well as saving our own in a pinch. Cycling on a removal spell is fantastic, especially with our recursion toolbox.
Commit // Memory - Certainly worth a look!
Keep Watch - Probably not going to make it in, but I'm going to try it. Situational.
Game Plan - Situationally good.
Primal Amulet
Cards I will most likely retire to the binder:
Mana Vault, Grim Monolith - These cards are glass cannon effects that don't quite do it for me anymore. I feel there are now other options that will give me more mileage throughout the course of the game.
Helm of Awakening - Better effects available now. Perhaps The Immortal Sun.
Inner Fire//Comet Storm - While being an iconic win-con for the deck, they are often dead draws. I think it makes sense to really set up our commander up for success. But I could be wrong. Again, needs testing.
Chaos Warp - DEFINITELY coming out. Only hits one target, can pull out something worse, and doesn't tuck commanders anymore.
Curiosity, Enter the Infinite, Show and Tell, Dream Halls, Omniscience - while certainly powerful, I think these types of cards warrant reconsideration as they deviate from my current play-style.
Izzet Charm - I think we've got stronger options at this point.
Merchant Scroll - Could be better options now. I've always disliked this one. It's a sorcery and it's very narrow.
Tolarian Winds - While cheap, I think we have better choices.
Thanks for reading! I look forward to your input!