Two questions for you if I may, how many cards did you use for each alter (detail not spacers) and what tool do you use to shave the cards down? I tried a #17 and a #18 blade and they work ok, but not as good as I was hoping.
Also just realized you were from my neck of the woods, hello fellow Michigander!
I'm not 100% on the number of copies I used; for Legendary creatures I usually know exactly how many I destroyed but for cheap cards like these I don't pay as close attention.
Best guesses:
Serra Angel: 5 primary layers plus the Japanese frame, 2 copies of Ice Age Plains #344 for the background, and 3-4 more copies of Serra for detail pieces.
Thieving Magpie: 7 primary layers plus the Japanese foil frame, 1 Unhinged Island background, and 1-2 more Magpies for the details.
So, 8-9 copies for the art on each; needed fewer extra Magpies because most of the primary layers had a lot of leftover art from which to cut detail pieces.
It does look like we're pretty close by; I'm in Hudsonville now. I don't get out much these days but occasionally go to area stores for EDH or Cube.
While I mostly stick with Legendary creatures still, I just finished a couple of favorite cards for some people. Some tricky stuff to work on in each of them. The Serra Angel's main wing is made of 25 pieces, but assembling the 22 leaf pieces in the Thieving Magpie was harder because they were all so tiny and mostly shaved thin.
I love it, can't stop staring at those pictures!
Do you play with 1994 rules too? mana burns and interrupts and all?
Seems like a huge power level gap between the top tier cards and lower tier cards in this cube, which makes it all the more fun I guess!
Is Time Vault actually playable?
Do you actually flip your Chaos Orb?
We don't play with 1994 rules, primarily because they're too confusing. I don't remember everything clearly at this point, and most of the players in my area started within the last five years.
Time Vault is pretty bad, but there are a handful of cards in there for nostalgia and the hope of sweet stories. It, Animate Artifact, Instill Energy, and Transmute Artifact are all pretty low picks, so it's possible to set up infinite turns (maybe with some help from Demonic Tutor and Ring of Ma'ruf). Unlikely, but I know I'll be trying for that deck a few times before taking it out.
We do indeed flip Chaos Orb and Falling Star, but they only affect one thing that they touch instead of everything; otherwise gameplay is miserable as everyone spreads their permanents out too much.
Thanks for your thoughts, and for catching my errors. The question marks are old and should be deleted. The printed list here is also slightly off; I'll work on updating it. In the mean time, the CubeTutor and Google Doc are up to date.
A few cards are in mostly for classic 2-card combos from 1994. Nettling Imp is fantastic with Royal Assassin, Flood, or Icy Manipulator, and isn't awful without them if you have a beefy blocker to eat their little guys or just want to clear their blockers. War Barge is pretty bad without Merfolk Assassin or Time Elemental, but blue is both heavily played and pretty commonly splashed off a couple of duals for Ancestral Recall or Time Walk, so the islandwalk side is relevant more often than it might be in a normal cube.
Blue is already pretty tight, and I don't think it wants 1-drops anyway. Red and Green could use more/better ones, but I don't think Scryb Sprites and Balloon Brigade are it. Ghazban Ogre maybe?
I considered Conch Horn and Jeweled Bird just as cyclers to shrink decks, but I'd rather people play a mediocre 23rd card than a cycler. This cube is about playing old cards more than optimization anyway.
You're probably right about Thorn Thallid over Cat Warriors, and Spore Cloud is worth a look.
Obviously this means little without having played this cube, but black looks pretty stacked.
I'm glad you like it! Black does have some pretty great cards and the best spot removal, though a lot of its good cards deal you damage (Ashes to Ashes, Pestilence, Hellfire, Juzam Djinn) so you have to be careful.
This simpily looks divine to play. I occasioanly talk to my friends about what the earliest a cube could have formed. Our guess was Ice Age but it's interesting to see this one set earlier.
What do the commonly drafted decks look like? I imagine white decks have trouble with a grand total of one spot removal spell available at the time.
City in a bottle made my day.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Druge Skeletons, couldn't find room for it?
I agree fully with the inclusion of 2x dual lands.
I appreciate you went and got acctual versions of all the cards instead of getting an 8th edition City of Brass instead of the original one.
I assume beta/CE basics?
Just drafted this on CubeTutor. Had a really cool White Blue prison deck. Locksdown with Moat/Meekstone/Island Sanctuary. Would win with Rod of Ruin/Alladin's Ring. Sounds like the best/worst deck ever.
A local guy wants to build Ice Age/Mirage after his experience with this cube. Those blocks are certainly a lot more balanced. City in a Bottle and Golgothian Sylex maybe shouldn't be in, but I like them. Library of Alexandria is powerful enough that I'd sideboard in City in a Bottle even if that was the only Arabian Nights card I saw (as long as I wasn't playing a lot of Djinni myself).
It was either Drudge Skeletons or Walking Dead; no reason it couldn't be the skeletons, but both is bad.
It was time-consuming (and hard on my collection) to get all this stuff, but I knew from the start that I'd have to get originals. You're right about the basics; I meant to picture some of them too. I'll do that when I put up the Legendary picture.
Looking at that draft deck reminds me that I need to try out Millstone. Anyone have an Antiquities Millstone for trade?
1994 is when I started, too! Part of the reason I decided to build this.
Candelabra might be good occasionally, but I don't know how often it would be worth a card for me to run it in a deck. I'd need a lot of good targets to consider it, and the best ones (Library, Maze, Workshop) are all very high picks. I'll have to think about it.
The Rack and Eureka I'll think about too. I really want Eurkea to be good, but it'd be hard to build a deck around without many ways to cast it reliably, and the biggest creatures have upkeeps of some sort anyway.
Not including Tabernacle - you're right about control already having a strong advantage, and I don't want to push that any more.
You'll be happy to know that Sol'kanar is already in instead of Gwendlyn. The list in the original post is off by about 10 cards; the CubeTutor and GoogleDoc are correct, though.
After seeing Frogczar's 1994 cube here, I decided to build a version of my own. Every card in the cube was available in 1994, which means the only expansions allowed are Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, and Fallen Empires.
I still need to find a Legends Dakkon Blackblade and get up pictures of the 15 Legends in the cube.
A few cards break the one-of rule: There's one of each Mishra's Factory, and to help with mana fixing there are two of each dual land and two City of Brass.
Pretty certain it is Guildmage.
It does seem a bit odd to replace a colorless card with Guildmage, but Guildmage makes more sense along with the other recent changes since it's a great way for RB to get a bunch of sacrifice fodder/death triggers. Klug has always been more concerned with overall environment/archetypes than any exact color balance, as evidenced by the lonely addition of Sprouting Thrinax and multicolor cards being "as printed" instead of "as played" (for example, Azorius Herald in white instead of UW).
I'm never much of a fan of Swords in aggressive decks. I'd rather go over the top. You already have Path/Fiend Hunter. I typically only want one Overrun like effect, so Charge gets the nod over Swell here. Cloudshift works similarly to Brave unless they have Pyroclasm, etc. You also get the benefit of rebuying Arrester, Fiend Hunter, and Master. Combined with Outworldly Journey you have some good redundancy there. I like Mask a lot, but think it's a little slow where we're trying to win as fast as possible. If the games get grindy I'd side it in. I want a 17th land here to hit Charge as soon as possible. You also have Lynx to think about. Wasteland to counts as a pseudo-spell and Guildmage helps additionally with flooding.
I never drew the Mask or Brave, but Swords and Swell were two of my most important cards in my match with the mono-green ramp player. In one game taking out his turn 2 Wall of Roots set him back a lot, and in the next channeling Swell on a Soltari let me win despite him closing down the ground and casting Hurricane. Channeling Swell was also key to beating Sulfurous Blast in another match.
...which means that what you wrote was exactly what I needed to hear since my experience likely taught me the "wrong" things. Thanks.
In the finals I played against the guy who took my Shrine of Loyal Legions (he first-picked Lingering Souls. In the final game he wrecked me with an Infest I didn't see coming, then got me down to 1 and himself back up to 19 while I got just enough creatures on board to win with a Charge Across the Araba for 7.
I'm curious what people think of a couple of my choices. My deck was the cards shown there plus 15 plains. I also had Doomed Traveler, Cloudshift, Loyal Cathar, and Master Splicer. Would you have played any of those instead of any of my choices?
Some time between 2003-2005 (2004 I think) there was an article on DailyMTG.com (or whatever it was called back then) that was about promo cards or super-rare cards or something like that. In that article, one of the cards did not actually exist - not sure if it was an April Fools or just a gimmick for the article. It was a black sorcery that allowed you to look at your opponent's hand and put a card from it into your hand.
Does anyone else remember this article and any other details about it that might help in locating it?
Or, even better, can anyone find the article and card in question?
I recently finished the 5 Guru/Praetor set I started working on a looong time ago. Not the best picture for seeing detail here; I'll get around to posting close-ups at some point.
The most recent card I made was an Agrus Kos - pictures here. Felt good to cut & write again
I didn't notice the new Centaur tokens - excellent! Glad I can retire my Nessian Coursers.
Currently deciding whether to proxy the rest of the enemy Gates, run only the 2, or wait until February to add any. Once they're all in I think I'll finally take out the enemy Signets.
Interesting, why do you think Constant Mists is overpowered?
Primarily because so many decks have zero answers to it. I have a hard time imagining any control deck that wouldn't happily splash G for it.
"I'm not playing counters or burn, so that one card beats my entire deck" is miserable.
It's possible that it fits more alongside Timely Reinforcements and Ghostly Prison in that it warps deck viability rather than being overpowered along the lines of Sol Ring and Skullclamp, but it's still not a card I want in my cube (and, full disclosure, I DO run Timely and Ghostly Prison still because my local players need a lot of incentive to run control).
Has anyone ever tried doing an EDH rotisserie draft? I've seen attempts at EDH cubes but they've always seemed a little flat; due to the size and diversity of deck styles rotisserie draft seems more appropriate.
If anyone else is interested in something like this, I'd love to pull one together via GoogleDocs soon and play out some games either at GenCon or on MTGO (preferably GenCon but if not enough people are going and interested...)
In my mind, it would be run similar to a normal Vintage Rotisserie draft. Every card legal in EDH would be a valid pick. Not sure how many picks the draft should run...100? more?
I do think it would be important to NOT draft Commanders. After the draft you could add any Commander of your choice to use, even if someone else drafted that card; drafting a card gives you the right to put it in your deck but doesn't stop someone else from running it as their Commander.
Also curious what you think would be the top picks. Sol Ring/Top? Prime Time/Consecrated Sphinx? Dual Lands?
I'm planning on making a 3D Sliver Overlord soon, but it won't be done in time for the challenge.
I'm not 100% on the number of copies I used; for Legendary creatures I usually know exactly how many I destroyed but for cheap cards like these I don't pay as close attention.
Best guesses:
Serra Angel: 5 primary layers plus the Japanese frame, 2 copies of Ice Age Plains #344 for the background, and 3-4 more copies of Serra for detail pieces.
Thieving Magpie: 7 primary layers plus the Japanese foil frame, 1 Unhinged Island background, and 1-2 more Magpies for the details.
So, 8-9 copies for the art on each; needed fewer extra Magpies because most of the primary layers had a lot of leftover art from which to cut detail pieces.
It does look like we're pretty close by; I'm in Hudsonville now. I don't get out much these days but occasionally go to area stores for EDH or Cube.
We don't play with 1994 rules, primarily because they're too confusing. I don't remember everything clearly at this point, and most of the players in my area started within the last five years.
Time Vault is pretty bad, but there are a handful of cards in there for nostalgia and the hope of sweet stories. It, Animate Artifact, Instill Energy, and Transmute Artifact are all pretty low picks, so it's possible to set up infinite turns (maybe with some help from Demonic Tutor and Ring of Ma'ruf). Unlikely, but I know I'll be trying for that deck a few times before taking it out.
We do indeed flip Chaos Orb and Falling Star, but they only affect one thing that they touch instead of everything; otherwise gameplay is miserable as everyone spreads their permanents out too much.
Thanks for your thoughts, and for catching my errors. The question marks are old and should be deleted. The printed list here is also slightly off; I'll work on updating it. In the mean time, the CubeTutor and Google Doc are up to date.
A few cards are in mostly for classic 2-card combos from 1994. Nettling Imp is fantastic with Royal Assassin, Flood, or Icy Manipulator, and isn't awful without them if you have a beefy blocker to eat their little guys or just want to clear their blockers. War Barge is pretty bad without Merfolk Assassin or Time Elemental, but blue is both heavily played and pretty commonly splashed off a couple of duals for Ancestral Recall or Time Walk, so the islandwalk side is relevant more often than it might be in a normal cube.
Dwarven Catapult and Wormwood Treefolk are in, though Dwarven Catapult isn't in the pictures. Carnivorous Plant was in, then swapped for Wall of Brambles since green is so heavy on 4s and short on 3s, but eventually I cut back on Walls to decrease stalled boards (Wall of Heat, Wall of Vapor, Wall of Shadows, and Living Wall were all on the list at one point too). The only ones that survived are Wall of Swords (since it stops fliers and white is already short on playables) and Wall of Wonder (since it can attack).
Blue is already pretty tight, and I don't think it wants 1-drops anyway. Red and Green could use more/better ones, but I don't think Scryb Sprites and Balloon Brigade are it. Ghazban Ogre maybe?
I considered Conch Horn and Jeweled Bird just as cyclers to shrink decks, but I'd rather people play a mediocre 23rd card than a cycler. This cube is about playing old cards more than optimization anyway.
You're probably right about Thorn Thallid over Cat Warriors, and Spore Cloud is worth a look.
I'm glad you like it! Black does have some pretty great cards and the best spot removal, though a lot of its good cards deal you damage (Ashes to Ashes, Pestilence, Hellfire, Juzam Djinn) so you have to be careful.
A local guy wants to build Ice Age/Mirage after his experience with this cube. Those blocks are certainly a lot more balanced.
City in a Bottle and Golgothian Sylex maybe shouldn't be in, but I like them. Library of Alexandria is powerful enough that I'd sideboard in City in a Bottle even if that was the only Arabian Nights card I saw (as long as I wasn't playing a lot of Djinni myself).
It was either Drudge Skeletons or Walking Dead; no reason it couldn't be the skeletons, but both is bad.
It was time-consuming (and hard on my collection) to get all this stuff, but I knew from the start that I'd have to get originals. You're right about the basics; I meant to picture some of them too. I'll do that when I put up the Legendary picture.
Looking at that draft deck reminds me that I need to try out Millstone. Anyone have an Antiquities Millstone for trade?
1994 is when I started, too! Part of the reason I decided to build this.
Candelabra might be good occasionally, but I don't know how often it would be worth a card for me to run it in a deck. I'd need a lot of good targets to consider it, and the best ones (Library, Maze, Workshop) are all very high picks. I'll have to think about it.
The Rack and Eureka I'll think about too. I really want Eurkea to be good, but it'd be hard to build a deck around without many ways to cast it reliably, and the biggest creatures have upkeeps of some sort anyway.
Not including Tabernacle - you're right about control already having a strong advantage, and I don't want to push that any more.
You'll be happy to know that Sol'kanar is already in instead of Gwendlyn. The list in the original post is off by about 10 cards; the CubeTutor and GoogleDoc are correct, though.
List is up at Cube Tutor, Google Doc, and below the images here.
I still need to find a Legends Dakkon Blackblade and get up pictures of the 15 Legends in the cube.
A few cards break the one-of rule: There's one of each Mishra's Factory, and to help with mana fixing there are two of each dual land and two City of Brass.
Pretty certain it is Guildmage.
It does seem a bit odd to replace a colorless card with Guildmage, but Guildmage makes more sense along with the other recent changes since it's a great way for RB to get a bunch of sacrifice fodder/death triggers. Klug has always been more concerned with overall environment/archetypes than any exact color balance, as evidenced by the lonely addition of Sprouting Thrinax and multicolor cards being "as printed" instead of "as played" (for example, Azorius Herald in white instead of UW).
I never drew the Mask or Brave, but Swords and Swell were two of my most important cards in my match with the mono-green ramp player. In one game taking out his turn 2 Wall of Roots set him back a lot, and in the next channeling Swell on a Soltari let me win despite him closing down the ground and casting Hurricane. Channeling Swell was also key to beating Sulfurous Blast in another match.
...which means that what you wrote was exactly what I needed to hear since my experience likely taught me the "wrong" things. Thanks.
In the finals I played against the guy who took my Shrine of Loyal Legions (he first-picked Lingering Souls. In the final game he wrecked me with an Infest I didn't see coming, then got me down to 1 and himself back up to 19 while I got just enough creatures on board to win with a Charge Across the Araba for 7.
I'm curious what people think of a couple of my choices. My deck was the cards shown there plus 15 plains. I also had Doomed Traveler, Cloudshift, Loyal Cathar, and Master Splicer. Would you have played any of those instead of any of my choices?
Some time between 2003-2005 (2004 I think) there was an article on DailyMTG.com (or whatever it was called back then) that was about promo cards or super-rare cards or something like that. In that article, one of the cards did not actually exist - not sure if it was an April Fools or just a gimmick for the article. It was a black sorcery that allowed you to look at your opponent's hand and put a card from it into your hand.
Does anyone else remember this article and any other details about it that might help in locating it?
Or, even better, can anyone find the article and card in question?
I recently finished the 5 Guru/Praetor set I started working on a looong time ago. Not the best picture for seeing detail here; I'll get around to posting close-ups at some point.
The most recent card I made was an Agrus Kos - pictures here. Felt good to cut & write again
Currently deciding whether to proxy the rest of the enemy Gates, run only the 2, or wait until February to add any. Once they're all in I think I'll finally take out the enemy Signets.
Primarily because so many decks have zero answers to it. I have a hard time imagining any control deck that wouldn't happily splash G for it.
"I'm not playing counters or burn, so that one card beats my entire deck" is miserable.
It's possible that it fits more alongside Timely Reinforcements and Ghostly Prison in that it warps deck viability rather than being overpowered along the lines of Sol Ring and Skullclamp, but it's still not a card I want in my cube (and, full disclosure, I DO run Timely and Ghostly Prison still because my local players need a lot of incentive to run control).
If anyone else is interested in something like this, I'd love to pull one together via GoogleDocs soon and play out some games either at GenCon or on MTGO (preferably GenCon but if not enough people are going and interested...)
In my mind, it would be run similar to a normal Vintage Rotisserie draft. Every card legal in EDH would be a valid pick. Not sure how many picks the draft should run...100? more?
I do think it would be important to NOT draft Commanders. After the draft you could add any Commander of your choice to use, even if someone else drafted that card; drafting a card gives you the right to put it in your deck but doesn't stop someone else from running it as their Commander.
Also curious what you think would be the top picks. Sol Ring/Top? Prime Time/Consecrated Sphinx? Dual Lands?
As far as I can tell, this is the complete list of cards that are easily good enough to make the cut in Peasant cubes but aren't in this one:
Sol Ring
Skullclamp
Mana Drain
Constant Mists
Timely Reinforcements
Ghostly Prison
The first 4 are completely overpowered in my opinion. The other 2 oppress aggro a bit more than some people like.
Anyone see any cards I missed that should be on that list or disagree with my evaluation?