I never understood having cards like Deglamer and Unravel in the sideboard. What is it mainly going after. I understand that you could target your own things but can't see 4 sideboard slots just for that. Can anyone give reasoning for it?
Tutor is 1 mana and is instant speed so you can cast it at the end of your oponents turn. Not sure what it would replace though. He is talking about Argothian.I am actually not sure how well that would do as spirit dancer does the same thing but is also a threat.
I'm playing Bogles a lot... but it seems so fragile in so many matches for me. Sometimes it seems to need more evasion... sometimes it seems to need more power... sometimes it seems to need more protection... sometimes it seems to need more consistency... sometimes it seems to need more interaction... and in the end there are not enough auras to fill all these blank spaces. Don't get me wrong, I love the deck, but it can be frustrating here and there.
1) What about Sigarda's Aid? I know Bogles doesn't really need instant speed, but I think this could really make the combat more aggressive once the opponent doesn't know what we are about to cast to make our creatures even more monstrous. Sigarda's Aid would even make Helm of the Gods viable.
2) Is there any powerful list of Bogles that plays Arcanum Wings combo? Aura Swap ability + some powerful but high CMC auras (Spectra Ward, Eldrazi Conscription, etc) seems tempting.
3) What about Umbra Mystic? It’s ability grants totem armor to all our auras! For 2W, It’s presence on the field is great.
The problem with most of the things you suggest, is that it completely ruins what little consistency the deck has. You talk about wanting more consistency but that would not be the effect of the cards you suggest.
To get back to the basics, most "fair" decks are generally trying to draw a good mixture of lands and spells. If you draw too many spells, you won't have lands to cast them. If you draw too few spells, your opponent can trade 1-for-1 and outvalue you. Bogles takes this to the next level by requiring three separate components to function. Lands, creatures and auras. If you draw too few of one of these components, it's hard to win, and the opponent can focus his answers on the type you are lacking.
Cards like Sigarda's Aid and Helm of the Gods don't fill any of these three roles. They introduce a 4th role, cards that are only good if you already drew the other 3 types. Playing cards like that over additional creatures and/or auras will make the deck more inconsistent and vulnerable to answers. It's much easier to starve the deck from Auras if you replaced a bunch of them with utility cards like this. This is the reason why cards like Spirit Link and Keen Sense have always been kind of questionable.
Regarding the Arcanum Wings combo, it's simply too inconsistent. Both Arcanum Wings and Eldrazi Conscription are almost dead if you don't draw both, we have no good way of finding them, and even if you do they're still easily answerable. Against any deck that can't answer the combo, playing Rancor+Daybreak Coronet is likely good enough too. 3 mana is by no means a certain thing with this deck, frequently we have to operate on two lands which doesn't work with the combo.
Regarding cards like Umbra Mystic and Nomad Mythmaker, they're way too easy to answer and do nothing when answered. A general rule in modern is that any creature that gains neither value nor tempo against a removal spell is unplayable. In Bogles cards like that are particularly terrible because they turn on the otherwise dead removal spells. Even for cards that do provide tempo or value, 3 mana is still almost always too much for this deck and 4 mana for things like Wrath of God is simply unthinkable.
Yeah, you're right. I agree with almost everything you said... but I have some arguments in favor of 3x Sigarda's Aid in this deck. Considering it is in the field, we gain three important stuff that, without it, we don't have: (1) unpredictability; (2) efficiency when playing defensive, and (3) even more efficiency when playing offensive.
1 - Sigardas's Aid CMC is 1. This means this enchantment won't mess our curve and can be played in the same turn as almost any other aura in the deck. Can be played on turn 2 with ethereal armor and count as one more enchantment.
2 - Cause we can wait till after blockers are declared to play our auras, the coefficient of "mana cost to cast x utility of spell" goes above the ceiling.
3 - Once playing auras as instants we now have interaction with our opponent. We have a way to respond spells and abilities played in our opponent's turn.
4 - The combat step isn't as predictable as before. For bogles, the combat step is always predictable. The opponent knows everything we have: our creatures tapped, the creatures untapped, who is attacking, who will be possibly blocking next turn, the auras attached to them, their power and toughness, and know he can expect the only probably one instant we may have (path to exile). Our actual way to play is totally vulnerable and predictable. Even when we have advantage and play offensive we are still vulnerable to tons of instants. Deflecting Palm, for example, loses great part of its efficiency to ruin us: once our opponent have to choose the source as it resolves, if we play our first aura and he responds it, we can attach our next aura to another creature or even make some other emergency moves to avoid losing the game (like "pathing" our own creature with that untapped plains we left open to play our next aura).
5 - With totem armor and our other auras, we gain access to many new situations where we, the bogle player, now have advantage. Have you ever attacked with a 0/2 Kor Spiritdancer? If yes, have you ever played an aura instant speed to make a creature bigger and protect it? I did. While testing Nomad Mythmaker I had the chance to attack with a massive bogle and a 0/2 Spiritdancer... and guess what: my opponent threw all his creatures to block and kill my 17/17 trampling bogle and played a bolt to kill Spiritdancer. I responded the bolt with Nomad Mythmaker's ability, attached a rancor to Spiritdancer, saved her from the bolt, draw a card, assigned 4 damage to my opponent (the Spiritdancer became 4/4) and won the game that turn. Playing our auras as instants targeting Kor Spiritdancer can not only protect it, but can lead us to win the game by causing massive unexpected damage to the player.
6 - Spells that destroy permanents, like the famous overplayed duo Abrupt Decay & Assassin's Trophy, are not that scary anymore cause they can't be used to respond destroying auras that are still on the stack. If you know how to manage the stack properly and when to cast the auras instant speed, you'll be always able to bait that Decay and avoid the destruction of your Daybreak Coronet. The auras can be played even in response to Decay (to add one more aura before the resolution of Decay and avoid having just Coronet and the aura targeted by Decay attached to our creature) or after it resolved.
These are just some of the tons of advantage that we acquire while playing our great auras as instants. If you are an experient player and knows how to manage the stack properly, oh man you'll see how amazing Bogles will be while playing auras in response. As a long time infect player, I can tell you that isn't easy to manage the stack... it takes great effort and time to know the rules properly, but the reward comes fast.
That old "Bogles doesn't care about interaction" line isn't right. Every deck needs the maximum of interaction as possible. Bogles ins't different. Bogles, after all, demands desperately for flexibility and unpredictability. Being predictable is terrible... and boring.
It just doesn't work in this type of deck. First you have to look at what you would give up for the card vs its benefit. You would have to get rid of more impact enchantments to fit in something that is only situation ally good. Also, it slows down your most explosive turns.
Also, it isn't that bogles doesn't care about interaction. The point is we are blanking our opponents interaction through various ways. An umbra is like countering a sweeper, Playing a cartouche or fetching a dryad arbor, or the threat of fetching a dryab arbor, forces our opponent to play their edict effect one turn later and that is only if they also have a 1 mana removal spell in hand.
If you are having issues why don't you post your list and we can all go over it together.
I’m a new bogles pilot. I’m still testing tons of cards.. but I keep wondering why Nomad Mythmaker isn’t seen in any bogles list. Do you think it isn’t good? I look to this card and think it’s amazing!
The main reason is that it costs 3 mana and does nothing on the turn it comes into play. Basically you would have to take all of turn three off instead fo player a daybreakplus possibly another impactful aura and then on turn 4 spend 1 mana to attach an aura that you would have been better off just playing the previous turn. It also doesn't have hexproof so it is easy to answer. It is a major tempo loss if you play this on turn three then they kill it and you ahve done nothing.
There aren't really a lot of interesting auras that aren't already legal in modern. Briar Shield is kind of the only thing that seems useful. Enlightened Tutor could be useful to fetch sideboard cards but it seems very unlikely to be reprinted. Sterling Grove is a possibility that is reprintable but I'm unsure if it would be worth running.
We're probably gonna have to hope mostly for new cards rather than reprints. I do believe that they'll make sure almost every archetype gets at least one interesting card though, so we'll see what they come up with.
Hi guys, I just picked up GW bogles yesterday, however a budget version with no Horizon Canopies, 4 paths main and 4 leylines in the board. Other than that it's pretty standard. I would like some advise on sideboarding: How do you board against GDS and vs IOK/TS in general. Do you only bring in leyline on the draw (since on the play they can't snag a bogle) or what is the approach? Thx a lot
I would still run at least 3 main board leylines. Even if it doesn't end up doing anything major in the match it can lead to some of your most explosive openings with ethereal armor.When it is useful it can save you from a devastating loss.
I stopped using damping sphere against tron. I would use stony silence and Teeg. I also have to Heroic intervention that i bring in. My experience with tron has been if I can play my answers such as teeg and stony silence and defend those answers with heroic intervention winning is much more possible. I hate Tron.
You actually aren't completely dead to chalice. Your answer to it costs 2 in seal or you could also use disenchant instead. Also, chalice doesn't prevent you from casting your 1 mana spells it just counters them. Play out your Spiritdancer and slam those auras to dig for answers. You can also bring back Gryff's boon from the graveyard. I usually am fine against chalice for 1 but if they play it on 2 I lose. Also Teeg on the play against chalice is great.
How did you fair against phoenix? I am trying to put two spell skites in my side since they can't be returned to hand by thing in the ice and it is difficult for them to answer.
I don't know how I feel about 4 paths in the main. Thing in the ice has been a big problem but timing a core spirit dancer has helped a ton in that match up. Usually if they flip thing and have pressure from phoenix it is pretty much over but if they go all in on thing then it is winnable.
Has anyone tried running one or two copies of Spellskite in the side for that match?
Also, when it comes to tron, I have been bringing in Heroic Intervention. A lot of times stony silence and teeg are good enough to hold them off so being able to defend those permanents is super helpful.
It is the only deck I play in modern. When you are first starting with it the deck is great as you can stumble your way through simple wins sometimes. A lot of people don't like the deck and think there isn't much play to it but those people are wrong.
I never understood having cards like Deglamer and Unravel in the sideboard. What is it mainly going after. I understand that you could target your own things but can't see 4 sideboard slots just for that. Can anyone give reasoning for it?
Tutor is 1 mana and is instant speed so you can cast it at the end of your oponents turn. Not sure what it would replace though. He is talking about Argothian.I am actually not sure how well that would do as spirit dancer does the same thing but is also a threat.
What I really want to see is Armadillo Cloak
It just doesn't work in this type of deck. First you have to look at what you would give up for the card vs its benefit. You would have to get rid of more impact enchantments to fit in something that is only situation ally good. Also, it slows down your most explosive turns.
Also, it isn't that bogles doesn't care about interaction. The point is we are blanking our opponents interaction through various ways. An umbra is like countering a sweeper, Playing a cartouche or fetching a dryad arbor, or the threat of fetching a dryab arbor, forces our opponent to play their edict effect one turn later and that is only if they also have a 1 mana removal spell in hand.
If you are having issues why don't you post your list and we can all go over it together.
The main reason is that it costs 3 mana and does nothing on the turn it comes into play. Basically you would have to take all of turn three off instead fo player a daybreakplus possibly another impactful aura and then on turn 4 spend 1 mana to attach an aura that you would have been better off just playing the previous turn. It also doesn't have hexproof so it is easy to answer. It is a major tempo loss if you play this on turn three then they kill it and you ahve done nothing.
I would settle for armadillo cloak.
I would still run at least 3 main board leylines. Even if it doesn't end up doing anything major in the match it can lead to some of your most explosive openings with ethereal armor.When it is useful it can save you from a devastating loss.
I stopped using damping sphere against tron. I would use stony silence and Teeg. I also have to Heroic intervention that i bring in. My experience with tron has been if I can play my answers such as teeg and stony silence and defend those answers with heroic intervention winning is much more possible. I hate Tron.
You actually aren't completely dead to chalice. Your answer to it costs 2 in seal or you could also use disenchant instead. Also, chalice doesn't prevent you from casting your 1 mana spells it just counters them. Play out your Spiritdancer and slam those auras to dig for answers. You can also bring back Gryff's boon from the graveyard. I usually am fine against chalice for 1 but if they play it on 2 I lose. Also Teeg on the play against chalice is great.
How did you fair against phoenix? I am trying to put two spell skites in my side since they can't be returned to hand by thing in the ice and it is difficult for them to answer.
Has anyone tried running one or two copies of Spellskite in the side for that match?
Also, when it comes to tron, I have been bringing in Heroic Intervention. A lot of times stony silence and teeg are good enough to hold them off so being able to defend those permanents is super helpful.