Great to see that you ended up with a similar list as I did, the MB is identical up to 3 cards that I'd consider essentially flex slots, I play 25 lands instead of your 24 though, I always found that to be the better number without any dorks at all. Would you perform any changes to the list, were there any choices that stood out particularly?
The list feels very retro at the first glance, mainly due to the 3 copies of Path to Exile and Noxious Revival. Spell Snare is also an uncommon inclusion nowadays, I always felt that it was in conflict with the turn 1 hand disruption plan the deck tries to execute, which is why Serum Visions is a little awkward as well. As far as countermagic goes, I'd advocate for Drown in the Loch in this kind of list, your 5 discard slots are fine overall, Sultai Charm feels a little clunky at times as it has the very real cost of 3 mana (colour mostly not being an issue) for the effect. Reducing dead draws is LotV's second name while simultaneously pressuring the opponent's resources. Have you tried her as a 3-of already? I'd never go back in most matchups.
Regarding the mana base I can see your concern, turn 1 W, U or B, turn 2 BG and turn 3 UW for T3feri is a challenge, which is why I'd suggest cutting down on Path to Exile as your premier spot removal spell, especially since this deck tries to stabilize until it can resolve Gifts, donating lands to your opponent early isn't a necessity with all the options in Modern and the exile clause doesn't matter as much as it did a while ago. Arcum's Astrolabe works wonders with only 6 snow basics and provides a welcome cantrip while a single copy on the field is enough to fix the mana almost perfectly fine, and it's more painless (or faster) than going for shockland after shockland. I have thought about switching the 2nd Trophy for a Maelstrom Pulse, T3feri can speed it up for the opponent's turn and I kinda want to be able to get rid off any nonland permanent with a Gifts pile if needed.
The play patterns you mentioned are generally fine, but for 2016 I fear. A single Grave Titan doesn't outgrind some (or even most) decks in Modern and immediately gets removed, having paid 3U + 3W for two 2/2 tokens, which isn't great. This is why some resilience in the choice of threats is important, which is precisely why Loam/Crime/Edge/Field is really good, there is no straightforward way a deck like UWx can interact with this combination without eventually getting behind on cards, countering things and destroying Field of the Dead doesn't achieve anything but delay. Even more so with T3feri on the board, keeping them from getting value of off instants cast in response to Crime. Iona does nothing against UWx, she either gets path'd or bounced and isn't a fast enough clock on her own. Rites/Titan doesn't do it either, as they can very easily interact with a sorcery spell for 3W, wheres a Gifts can be cast at instant speed and hence sneak through their defence, it's irrelevant which cards are in the yard from there on, the above-mentioned package keeps coming for them after this. That said, against opponents with less interaction, Rites/Titan can power out a myriad of zombie tokens within 2 turns, Rites/Elesh Norn is a nice option against opposing Fields and beefs up our own zombies immensely, the choice of reanimation target is heavily dependent on the opponent's deck and currently I think the trio of Titan, Elesh and Iona is the way to go.
I think this is the right direction at the moment. Are you sure that you want BtL in this list though? You have no sweepers mainboard and BtL into Gifts at sorcery speed is super awkward. Golos is a nice payoff especially with Astrolabes, but BtL into Golos for Field of the Dead doesn't sound too great either, especially since it takes 5 mana and only nets you a single land when Golos gets killed, most likely 1-2 to go until the desired 7 for the trigger. Maybe Bring to Light should be T3feri? He does a ton of work in (re-)buying tempo and is hilarious with Raven's Crime and Loam. I'd swap a Drown in the Loch for a Fatal Push, the full set is a little much and diversifying your removal suite is always a good idea.
Maybe Stony Silence can be retired for the moment, Veil of Summer could be a nice option.
I made a few cuts and rearrangements in my list and incorporated the Field of the Dead/Primeval Titan/Life from the Loam engine into the deck, basically instead of the Lingering Souls plan and the artifact package together with Academy Ruins. A convenient package could now be Field/Crime/Loam/TecEdge, playing excellently in the long game both dropping threats and decimating the opponent's hand, even more so with T3feri joined into the game. Sweepers have wandered off to the sideboard altogether, which made space for the full set of Astrolabes and two copies of T3feri, LotV occupies 3 instead of 4 slots in this particular list, not sure whether I'd like to have the full set though. Maelstrom Pulse has been cut due to its clunkiness as well, the mana curve hence was lowered quite a bit with Drown in the Loch taking the spots of Pulse and Path, the latter relieving some strain from the land base as well. The mana base was adjusted accordingly with 6 snow basics and 10 fetchlands (as before) and works mostly fine without an Astrolabe in play, although more often than not turn 1 basic into Astrolabe is really good. Having many 1-drops is a little awkward if one needs to decide whether Astrolabe or discard is more important at the time.
Long story short, here's the current list. Not sure if LtLH and Stony Silence (awkward with Astrolabe) are still in place in the sideboard, time will tell. The rest is pretty much standard, I could see Unmoored Ego as a 3-of against the myriad of Titan decks that will approach us in the upcoming season.
Astrolabe is definitely needed when I have a look at the distribution of mana costs, I am more conservative on the coloured mana requirements and limit myself to mostly BB and a single UU card. I think I'll try an adaptation of this list at some point, having Field of the Dead against UWx Control sounds like a great deal, although Loam/Crime used to be quite good as well, resolving Gifts is the crucial point overall. Not sure what to think about Elesh Norn in the board, just 1 Snapcaster Mage and things like Murderous Cut and the lack of Drown in the Loch, but we'll see.
You think Goose is the way to go? Not having a repeatable mana source is a serious downside, is the food synergy worth it? That said, there is a very recent list that made a 5-0 finish in a league, have a look at the spice: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2587217#paper.
Maybe I'm getting expelled from the thread for the following suggestion, in any case I'll start to re-ignite the discussion going on in here. Do you guys think that Oko, Thief of Crowns might have a place in this archetype? He is seeing very good results in Urza builds of course, Sultai Snow has been on the rise as well, at least partly on the back of Oko. It could remedy our miserable matchup against Burn if it comes down on turn 2 or 3 while dealing with problematic artifacts postboard (Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, Spyglass, maybe Oblivion Stone and so forth). Not sure if I can find an expendable slot though.
Regarding the newest take on Urza, I'm always thinking that the matchup should not be too bad at the moment. If we can stick an Iona on Blue preboard, most lists have nothing to do against it apart from drawing some of their artifacts, but this will only postpone the inevitable. Postboard it is a little more difficult with Brutality, Assassin's Trophy, Thoughtseize and such, but we have our own disruption suite available, only the very fast starts can be an issue as we're a little durdly at times. Any experience on the matchup, did I overlook anything?
I need to agree on the SFM aspect you mentioned. There are a few things within the stock lists that I found a bit lacklustre though, T5feri for example doesn't feel very great and I'm not yet sure about the number of creatures in the deck. Mystic Sanctuary is already in the list, not sure whether I want 2 or even more of them and especially at the expense of what, probably Glacial Fortress. This is my current list:
T5feri could be Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for more pressure or just another Detention Sphere if it is the tuck ability of Teferi that matters. I briefly tried Torrential Gearhulk to close out games faster, it has turned out a little clunky though and I have gone up a second Clique, those are great with Narset und T3feri alike. Narset is also the reason I run Geier Reach Sanitarium, although maybe it should be another Sanctuary. I don't own Force of Negation, up until now I haven't greatly missed them to be honest though, most matches I played were against rather fair strategies.
At some point I have mentioned already that I tried a 5C Gifts list about 2 years ago, I sent you my list from back then via PM. Although it was enjoyable to play, I think R (or G, however you wanna put it) doesn't add enough to warrant the inclusion of a fifth colour, especially since the ways the mana bases are built are different between 4C and 5C.
Oh, I forgot Sultai Charm has a Naturalize-like effect, thought it could only hit enchantments such as Esper Charm. It seems to be a little overcosted at 3 mana though, this is what threw me off when testing Kaya's Guile as well, even if versatility is key. Maybe try Drown in the Loch in this slot, the cheaper casting cost can make a big difference and even without discard on your own, Modern decks fill their cards quickly. Haven't seen LotV on the other side of the table recently, but Sigarda makes sense if your LGS is heavy on Rock or Jund. Any insights in sideboard slots? Your posted list doesn't run Runed Halo, hence the confusion since you mentioned it in your report.
How does Niv to Light compare to Gifts in your local meta?
Congratulations on taking down your FNM! I have to admit, your build looks quite wild, I haven't seen Gideon, Sultai Charm, Sigarda or BtL in a long time, let alone successful. Any comments on these particular choices, I suppose they are tailored towards your local meta. Izzet Tempo means something along the lines of Thing/Fiend/Drakes I guess? I have found Humans to be a tricky matchup, heavily depending on their pace and, especially if they know what you're playing, their amount of disruption in Freebooter/Meddling Mage and Thalia. With Burning Tree you mean Bushwhacker Zoo I suppose?
I have been toying around with the (preboard) UWx matchup, since I own both decks and they have a small overlap in cards, I proxied up the rest and tested against my girlfriend, her playing 'traditional' non-Terminus UW Control w/o Stoneforge but with the standard planeswalker package in T3feri, Narset, T5feri and JtMS. The matchup is definitely trickier than anticipated, LotV and early discard or even Loam/Crime are crucial to get ahead, then apply pressure via Tar Pit or Lingering Souls tokens. Manlands are essential for getting rid of their high-loyalty planeswalkers, the unblockable Tar Pit was indeed the best choice. Even after a resolved Gifts for Loam/Crime/Tec Edge/Souls the game went out of hand due to Vendilion Clique getting rid of a dredged Loam, then Narset and JtMS pulling ahead on cards. Engineered Explosives has turned out to be worth the slot, the non-Terminus version plays a significant amount of permanents in the 3-drop slot with Clique, Detention Sphere, Narset and T3feri. Kaya's Guile has been quite good, acting as an edict, exiling Snapcaster targets and generating another 1/1 spirit token. I ended up with an ever so slightly winning record, but the games were almost always close calls. Drown in the Loch wasn't in the list yet, however the number of cards UWx puts in the bin is suitable for enabling the card and I have high hopes that it is an improvement in versatility while simultaneously streamlining the deck and lowering its curve. This is my actual list:
The discussion around the flex slots in the deck let me consider Drown in the Loch, which can fill more than just one role and incidentally would also lower the mana curve a little. I would probably try it in place of Kaya's Guile and maybe it is even time to cut Damnation or Maelstrom Pulse to be able to run the card as a 3-of, eventually going up a copy of Lingering Souls as well. Mana-wise it should be pretty unproblematic, Sultai colours are almost always available turn 3 or earlier, I usually fetch for Overgrown Tomb/Watery Grave or the other way around, depending how my hand looks like. The next go-to is usually Hallowed Fountain for W, UU, BB, G where the 4th land does not matter anymore.
Paired with discard and the prevalence of fetch/shock mana bases, meeting the requirement of roughly CMC4 seems very doable, LotV further enables the card and is not as much of an antisynergy as she is with plain countermagic, we can still use it as a kill spell if need be or let her sit for a turn to hold up interaction. On top of that, counters give us the possibility to protect our Rites target, this has been an issue at times against decks with Path to Exile where we needed to hit an Elesh Norn, leading to her getting exiled immediately after she swept the board, eventually still losing us the game. It is however true that the card is probably horrible against Tron, but so is Damnation and Kaya's Guile as well, so there's that.
For you having trouble in the UWx matchup, have you considered Inkwell Leviathan as a quick way to close out the game post board, given you can force through a Gifts, when they probably boarded out their sweepers? The same holds true for Sphinx of the Steel Wind, it did great when Mardu Pyro was all over the place (most lists didn't run Path as far as I recall), same should hold true for Jund and Death's Shadow, however depending on the version. Maybe Terastodon is worth testing again as well, it puts up great pressure against non-interactive opponents.
As mentioned, there's not really a consensus on what's the optimal list, feel free to assemble a list and share. The deck does not play like 5C Niv, it's an entirely different story. That said, I always found Caryatid a little awkward with many 3-drops and it is a horrendous topdeck as well. Life from the Loam/Crime I would consider as a flex slot package, depending on the meta you are playing in.
I am currently working out a sideboarding plan for the more important matchups, if anyone has some wise words to contribute, please do so.
Feel free to share your list, we can see how well-aged it seems. What the best shell looks like currently is not really known I think, we are all experimenting, each of us with a (sometimes slightly) different ansatz. The most streamlined Gifts control list is probably the attrition-based Esper version without additional gimmicks involving green. If you want to dive into a midrange strategy, the more creature-heavy Junk Gifts approach of FuneralofGod (see above) is the way to go I think, this one contains silver bullets for many situations and (as always) is heavily customisable.
Thanks for the extensive reply. I was thinking that an alternate win condition (or lock, however you wanna see it) in Madcap/Emperion was a neat idea, especially since the opportunity cost of 5 cards is not too high. Especially right now with Burn on the rise, Emperion on turn 3 feels pretty solid, especially in game 1, same thing with Mono R Prowess and Izzet Blitz. In the case of more UWx and GBx in the meta, Acid-Moss is the better choice for sure, although I can see the benefit of the package postboard.
I can easily adjust the mana base, play Windswept Heath or Verdant Catacombs instead of the Bloodstained Mires, I swap a Forest for an Overgrown Tomb. Not sure if one should really run a basic Swamp, having it in the starting hand feels really awkward, hitting Blood Moon with Decay/Trophy sounds really nice though. Field of the Dead is something I want to include as well, not sure in what slot to be honest. Is the 4th Valakut needed? Drawing them in doubles or triples is not great, them coming into play tapped isn't either, this is why I have opted for 3 instead of the full 4 copies, especially since we have 4 Titans and 4 Scapeshifts to find them apart from drawing them naturally.
Regarding the mana base I can see your concern, turn 1 W, U or B, turn 2 BG and turn 3 UW for T3feri is a challenge, which is why I'd suggest cutting down on Path to Exile as your premier spot removal spell, especially since this deck tries to stabilize until it can resolve Gifts, donating lands to your opponent early isn't a necessity with all the options in Modern and the exile clause doesn't matter as much as it did a while ago. Arcum's Astrolabe works wonders with only 6 snow basics and provides a welcome cantrip while a single copy on the field is enough to fix the mana almost perfectly fine, and it's more painless (or faster) than going for shockland after shockland. I have thought about switching the 2nd Trophy for a Maelstrom Pulse, T3feri can speed it up for the opponent's turn and I kinda want to be able to get rid off any nonland permanent with a Gifts pile if needed.
The play patterns you mentioned are generally fine, but for 2016 I fear. A single Grave Titan doesn't outgrind some (or even most) decks in Modern and immediately gets removed, having paid 3U + 3W for two 2/2 tokens, which isn't great. This is why some resilience in the choice of threats is important, which is precisely why Loam/Crime/Edge/Field is really good, there is no straightforward way a deck like UWx can interact with this combination without eventually getting behind on cards, countering things and destroying Field of the Dead doesn't achieve anything but delay. Even more so with T3feri on the board, keeping them from getting value of off instants cast in response to Crime. Iona does nothing against UWx, she either gets path'd or bounced and isn't a fast enough clock on her own. Rites/Titan doesn't do it either, as they can very easily interact with a sorcery spell for 3W, wheres a Gifts can be cast at instant speed and hence sneak through their defence, it's irrelevant which cards are in the yard from there on, the above-mentioned package keeps coming for them after this. That said, against opponents with less interaction, Rites/Titan can power out a myriad of zombie tokens within 2 turns, Rites/Elesh Norn is a nice option against opposing Fields and beefs up our own zombies immensely, the choice of reanimation target is heavily dependent on the opponent's deck and currently I think the trio of Titan, Elesh and Iona is the way to go.
Maybe Stony Silence can be retired for the moment, Veil of Summer could be a nice option.
Long story short, here's the current list. Not sure if LtLH and Stony Silence (awkward with Astrolabe) are still in place in the sideboard, time will tell. The rest is pretty much standard, I could see Unmoored Ego as a 3-of against the myriad of Titan decks that will approach us in the upcoming season.
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Primeval Titan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Land
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Field of the Dead
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
Instant
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Drown in the Loch
Sorcery
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Unburial Rites
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Damping Sphere
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Unmoored Ego
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Regarding the newest take on Urza, I'm always thinking that the matchup should not be too bad at the moment. If we can stick an Iona on Blue preboard, most lists have nothing to do against it apart from drawing some of their artifacts, but this will only postpone the inevitable. Postboard it is a little more difficult with Brutality, Assassin's Trophy, Thoughtseize and such, but we have our own disruption suite available, only the very fast starts can be an issue as we're a little durdly at times. Any experience on the matchup, did I overlook anything?
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Enchantment
1 Detention Sphere
Land
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
3 Field of Ruin
2 Snow-Covered Plains
5 Snow-Covered Island
1 Castle Vantress
1 Mystic Sanctuary
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Opt
2 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
3 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
1 Mana Leak
Sorcery
1 Wrath of God
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Winds of Abandon
Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
3 Narset, Parter of Veils
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dovin's Veto
T5feri could be Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for more pressure or just another Detention Sphere if it is the tuck ability of Teferi that matters. I briefly tried Torrential Gearhulk to close out games faster, it has turned out a little clunky though and I have gone up a second Clique, those are great with Narset und T3feri alike. Narset is also the reason I run Geier Reach Sanitarium, although maybe it should be another Sanctuary. I don't own Force of Negation, up until now I haven't greatly missed them to be honest though, most matches I played were against rather fair strategies.
How does Niv to Light compare to Gifts in your local meta?
I have been toying around with the (preboard) UWx matchup, since I own both decks and they have a small overlap in cards, I proxied up the rest and tested against my girlfriend, her playing 'traditional' non-Terminus UW Control w/o Stoneforge but with the standard planeswalker package in T3feri, Narset, T5feri and JtMS. The matchup is definitely trickier than anticipated, LotV and early discard or even Loam/Crime are crucial to get ahead, then apply pressure via Tar Pit or Lingering Souls tokens. Manlands are essential for getting rid of their high-loyalty planeswalkers, the unblockable Tar Pit was indeed the best choice. Even after a resolved Gifts for Loam/Crime/Tec Edge/Souls the game went out of hand due to Vendilion Clique getting rid of a dredged Loam, then Narset and JtMS pulling ahead on cards. Engineered Explosives has turned out to be worth the slot, the non-Terminus version plays a significant amount of permanents in the 3-drop slot with Clique, Detention Sphere, Narset and T3feri. Kaya's Guile has been quite good, acting as an edict, exiling Snapcaster targets and generating another 1/1 spirit token. I ended up with an ever so slightly winning record, but the games were almost always close calls. Drown in the Loch wasn't in the list yet, however the number of cards UWx puts in the bin is suitable for enabling the card and I have high hopes that it is an improvement in versatility while simultaneously streamlining the deck and lowering its curve. This is my actual list:
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Land
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
4 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Engineered Explosives
Instant
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Path to Exile
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Drown in the Loch
Sorcery
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Unburial Rites
2 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Damping Sphere
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
2 Unmoored Ego
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Paired with discard and the prevalence of fetch/shock mana bases, meeting the requirement of roughly CMC4 seems very doable, LotV further enables the card and is not as much of an antisynergy as she is with plain countermagic, we can still use it as a kill spell if need be or let her sit for a turn to hold up interaction. On top of that, counters give us the possibility to protect our Rites target, this has been an issue at times against decks with Path to Exile where we needed to hit an Elesh Norn, leading to her getting exiled immediately after she swept the board, eventually still losing us the game. It is however true that the card is probably horrible against Tron, but so is Damnation and Kaya's Guile as well, so there's that.
For you having trouble in the UWx matchup, have you considered Inkwell Leviathan as a quick way to close out the game post board, given you can force through a Gifts, when they probably boarded out their sweepers? The same holds true for Sphinx of the Steel Wind, it did great when Mardu Pyro was all over the place (most lists didn't run Path as far as I recall), same should hold true for Jund and Death's Shadow, however depending on the version. Maybe Terastodon is worth testing again as well, it puts up great pressure against non-interactive opponents.
I am currently working out a sideboarding plan for the more important matchups, if anyone has some wise words to contribute, please do so.
I can easily adjust the mana base, play Windswept Heath or Verdant Catacombs instead of the Bloodstained Mires, I swap a Forest for an Overgrown Tomb. Not sure if one should really run a basic Swamp, having it in the starting hand feels really awkward, hitting Blood Moon with Decay/Trophy sounds really nice though. Field of the Dead is something I want to include as well, not sure in what slot to be honest. Is the 4th Valakut needed? Drawing them in doubles or triples is not great, them coming into play tapped isn't either, this is why I have opted for 3 instead of the full 4 copies, especially since we have 4 Titans and 4 Scapeshifts to find them apart from drawing them naturally.