I haven't played this deck in a awhile and I actually think it is in a great spot right now but out of curiosity, would once upon time make this deck even more consistent? Finding Eldrazi temples, thought-knot or any necessary creature?
I personally think that Once is great in Eldrazi decks, but you need to be playing green to run it. That also opens up Stirrings which gives you enough consistency that you no longer need Powder. In other words, Colorless will never play Once. I do think the way to go right now is to shift to Gx. Check out my article on the subject for more info:
I haven't played this deck in a awhile and I actually think it is in a great spot right now but out of curiosity, would once upon time make this deck even more consistent? Finding Eldrazi temples, thought-knot or any necessary creature?
I think it's less about which is weaker or stronger, and more about that we now have up to 8 copies of a cheap 5/x flier to attack with. Phantasm wins a significant number of games even though milling them out is the main strategy; doubling the tools for that alternate line of attack is a good thing. In my view it's play both, not either or. Maybe 4 phantasm and 2 or 3 gargoyle if space is an issue or the attacking plan is deemphasized in your build.
i actually proved it with x3 gargoyles... and i can say it improves inmensely some of the worst matches of the deck(burn and infect)... might go down to 2 for space issues... still a great card!
I think this card is fine if your going for more of mill aggro/temp style and not so controlling at the other UB mill decks.
i dont understand the logic of wishclaw talisman over scheming symetry, at least not in main....you need to expend 11B to tutor....+1 to thought scour whatever they use their tutor on.... against B to tutor... then the same thought scour for basically the same effect(you are playing a tempo deck, the extra tutor is most of the times irrelevant..... also... is a permanent that can be blown).....
care to explain your reasoning?
I don't understand why you care for a thoughtscour with a wishclaw talisman since wishclaw talisman automatically puts the card in their hand. I have been able to use wishclaw talisman late game to search for the card to keep the game going or to win the game. The opponent can't counter react once they receive the wishclaw talisman because it works sorcery speed but they have to be very wary if they are to use it because there is a good chance you searched for a archive trap. Also if you run the Ashiok, Dream Render they can't activate the wishclaw talisman.
There are multiple mill players at my FNM, but they all seem to really like wishclaw talisman right now. So I am not too crazy about using this card.
Also I don't have MB surgical in the deck because it kind of hurts drown in the loch. If you are going to take cards early game out of the graveyard then drown in the loch isn't as good. Plus with Urza PO and/or Thopter foundry they can possibly respond to what you are targeting or tap an extra mana to trigger the sword.
You may be better off running extirpate in the deck or SB to deal with those decks.
EDIT: i will try it next tournament, but im not that convinced
EDIT 2: i also find your lack of 4 surgicals in main..... disturbing
I'm just getting used to Twiddle and I have to ask about the usefulness of Tolaria West. In the few half dozen games I've played its always been a dead draw. More often than not I wished it was just an island.
Edit: I'm using my version of the UG list.
you could try it without with tolaria west, I have used it multiple times late game to find a cycle land to draw an extra card. I think if you are running once upon a time or sylvan scrying then you are probably fine with a utility land or island.
Once upon a time is not worth the slot. You are almost always finding a land. You should just play more lands that can cycle or sylvan scrying.
I do like the thought of playing green over red mostly for sideboard options.
I actually have struggled finding a 2nd land at times or a lotus field since I went down a tolaria west. Its probably a toss up with sylvan scrying but I have really liked the free play to find the second land or lotus field without have to spend a turn playing a card to find the right mana base.
So I have been tinkering with the U/B mill deck and I really like the Drown in the Loch in deck and actually I really like Wishclaw talisman in the deck. Sets you up late game or search for a trap card to prepare for when the opponent searches for it or you can mess with their head. I think you can add vantress gargoyle if you like but you may only need 2. I think Jace's Phantasm is actually pretty good, its puts a different clock on the opponent.
This is what I have built now and it seems to run pretty good.
This looks like alot of fun and I really like to hear how testing goes. I never played a vanifar combo deck but it was played a few time against me when it was hot. It looked like a lot of fun to play when I saw it.
I just wanted to say this deck has been playing so good lately and I really like the U/G version over the U/R version. I have made some minor tweaks and I think I may tinker with adding fetch lands to shuffle the deck after a once up a time has been played and to thin the deck. I have won two FNMs with this deck and I really like it.
Urza...Outcome?! Some lists have been running Paradoxical Outcome over Whirs. looks like they've fit Emry, Lurker of the Loch into the list now. No Ascendancy?!? Mono U?! What do y'all think?
Harlan looks to be on a very similar Whirza list from SCG Dallas. Hope his team takes it so i don't have to change my list! LMAO! No Witching Well! My foils are on the way.
Just curious, is nexus of fate necessary for the deck? I haven't played with that card and I was just curious
Someone played to 6th place, not sure how big the tournament was tho
I like the list that was played and I am going to try the new card once upon a time over sylvan scrying. I am going to start with 4 but may cut it down to 3 in the deck.
I can help find the second land, lotus field or vizier to untap a land. I think u/R gives you better wincons in Sideboard but U/G gives you more prtotection for hate cards I believe. Here is my list:
How did drakes do so well? Seems like being the only target for removal would make it even more of a lightning rod than it already is. That and when it's at it's best that means you are likely combing off already. Just make it less likely to fizzle and should have better results. I'm just confused on how you achieved results with that card. Thanks.
Edit: Looka like you were saying they took out all removal and played graveyard hate. Free wins basically?
Well every deck that ran removal just took out the creature kill and prepared to deal with the graveyard, loaded up with leylines, and or played surgicals/unmoorded ego. They never thought of crackling drake and drake isn't affected by exile cards. I just put the card in for fun and it was the house. Depending on the deck I would cut one grape shot, merchant scroll, cust 1-2 creature cycle cards and 1 past in flames. I don't really mess with the deck too much.
The mill deck played unmoored ego and leyline sanctity and took creature kill out. Drake was huge and unexpected, abzan death shadow too, focused on graveyard hate and took out fatal push.
I am not saying crackling drake is a for sure card but he is worth looking at and he draws a card. I played for fun this weekend, I beat jund, and tron twice.
I've been rocking this deck at my LGS's, I've top 8'ed 5 times, with a 3rd place and a FNM win with worse cards than the current version, which is almost complete:
I just wanted to say that crackling drake won me two games last night. I ended up going 3-1 with the deck, I bet esper mill, R/B goblins and Abzan death shadow. My only lost was to amulent titan and the deck just didn't draw well out of the start but that match definitely beatable. I was very happy with crackingling drake because my opponent focused on graveyard hate and that doesn't affect crackling drake.
Great article and I actually really like the deck ideas, I would probably lean more towards GW than the GR but what do I know.
The reason I was thinking of once upon of time in the colorless deck was to line up a necessary land or creature before you turn 1 chalice.
I think this card is fine if your going for more of mill aggro/temp style and not so controlling at the other UB mill decks.
you could try it without with tolaria west, I have used it multiple times late game to find a cycle land to draw an extra card. I think if you are running once upon a time or sylvan scrying then you are probably fine with a utility land or island.
I actually have struggled finding a 2nd land at times or a lotus field since I went down a tolaria west. Its probably a toss up with sylvan scrying but I have really liked the free play to find the second land or lotus field without have to spend a turn playing a card to find the right mana base.
glad we can agree on the color choice lol
This is what I have built now and it seems to run pretty good.
3 Mesmeric Orb
2 Wishclaw Talisman
Creature (8)
4 Hedron Crab
4 Jace's Phantasm
Instant (21)
4 Archive Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
4 Drown in the Loch
2 Fatal Push
2 Mission Briefing
3 Thought Scour
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
Land (22)
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Field of Ruin
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Mystic Sanctuary
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Polluted Delta
2 Shelldock Isle
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Collective Brutality
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Damnation
1 Echoing Truth
2 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Plague Engineer
3 Set Adrift
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vizier of Tumbling Sands
Instant (21)
4 Dream's Grip
1 Echoing Truth
3 Once Upon a Time
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
1 Twiddle
Sorcery (18)
2 Grapeshot
4 Ideas Unbound
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
4 Lotus Field
2 Tolaria West
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Aria of Flame
3 Mystical Dispute
2 Nature's Claim
2 Rebuild
2 Thing in the Ice
2 Veil of Summer
2 Weather the Storm
Just curious, is nexus of fate necessary for the deck? I haven't played with that card and I was just curious
I like the list that was played and I am going to try the new card once upon a time over sylvan scrying. I am going to start with 4 but may cut it down to 3 in the deck.
I can help find the second land, lotus field or vizier to untap a land. I think u/R gives you better wincons in Sideboard but U/G gives you more prtotection for hate cards I believe. Here is my list:
2 Vizier of Tumbling Sands
Instant (22)
4 Dream's Grip
1 Echoing Truth
4 Once Upon a Time
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
1 Twiddle
Sorcery (17)
2 Grapeshot
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
4 Lotus Field
2 Tolaria West
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Aria of Flame
1 Echoing Truth
2 Mystical Dispute
2 Nature's Claim
2 Rebuild
2 Thing in the Ice
3 Veil of Summer
1 Weather the Storm
Well every deck that ran removal just took out the creature kill and prepared to deal with the graveyard, loaded up with leylines, and or played surgicals/unmoorded ego. They never thought of crackling drake and drake isn't affected by exile cards. I just put the card in for fun and it was the house. Depending on the deck I would cut one grape shot, merchant scroll, cust 1-2 creature cycle cards and 1 past in flames. I don't really mess with the deck too much.
The mill deck played unmoored ego and leyline sanctity and took creature kill out. Drake was huge and unexpected, abzan death shadow too, focused on graveyard hate and took out fatal push.
I am not saying crackling drake is a for sure card but he is worth looking at and he draws a card. I played for fun this weekend, I beat jund, and tron twice.
Looks like burn