With 3 Echoing Truths, I doubt you’d fold to a tokens deck. I do wonder if you are light on grave yard hate. Your list is similar to mine. I have 17 lands, 2 snaps and 1 tasigur and 3 thought scour. I am also testing out a Rancor to bust through blockers.
That is true. I just think Temur Battle Rage does a better job of closing games out against tokens but Echoing Truth does a decent job. I have always been a fan of Echoing Truth. I find that while it may not be a silver bullet answer, it is very versatile. I have used it to bounce problematic enchantments and then forcing them to discard (Blood moon or Worship). I have bounced Anglers and they can't deploy right away because they ate their graveyard. I have used Echoing Truth to send multiple Arclight Phoenixes back to their hand or Prized Amalgam so I can swing for the win. Against GY decks, having their creatures in their hand is often the third safest play for them to be. #1 Exiled; #2 in their deck. The best was bouncing 2x Ethereal Armor on a large Slippery Bogle and then blocking with my larger Death's Shadow to take down their creature.
Many of the linear decks play 4 of and Echoing Truth allows you to reset a lot of the work they have done. It may only buy a turn or two but often that is all that is needed when you have 1 or 2 large creates on board. It does a fairly good job of saving your creatures if needed. Player played an Engineered Explosives for 1 and then sacrificed it. I played Echoing Truth on my DS and then recast them the following turn. Perhaps their are better cards to play but very few times have I been disappointed.
Regarding needing more GY hate. That is fair. I have played with Yixlid Jailer in the past and she has performed ok. but has never been able to close out a GY based deck by herself. I think based on the current meta, Surgical is the way to go. I still have time to pick up an additional two copies since the tournament is in June. Probably need to start trading to get some as I don't think they are going down anytime soon.
I plan to play tonight so hopefully I can perform a write up tomorrow.
@Shaggy - regarding Rancor or Rhonas, I would go with Rancor if I had to choose between the two. Not sure how often you are going to be able to play and then activate on the same turn. I just could not imagine paying three mana and then not getting anything out of it right away. Temur Battle Rage is used to race other decks and setting up three mana, possibly over two turns seems like it would take too much. Rancor allows you to start trampling right away so you can close out the game faster. In addition, if they kill the creature, at least you get it back to make your next treat super imposing. And if they kill the create in response to you putting Rancor on, then Goyf just gets bigger as we now have an enchantment in the GY. I would roll with Ranor.
Curious as to why you would think that. A thoughtful explanation and reasoning to your assessment would help garner better dialogue.
I look forward to your thoughts.
I will state that this deck strategy does not really fold to anything. It maybe unfavorable by +/- 20% but nothing is really unwinnable. Tokens, while a challenge without red for Temur Battle Rage, I am really not concerned about. Not very many people play that strategy. The other archetypes you named are part of the meta. I have played all of them numerous times and had success. Nothing is a given but understanding the matchup and what you are playing toward helps.
Anyways, like I said, if you could provide your reasoning, it will help promote better discussion.
I have been a long time fan of this version of the deck. I used to have a Death's Shadow list when Deathrite Shaman was still around. I loved that card. Anyways, I live in the Dallas area and there is a Modern Grand Prix this summer. I don't get to play as much as I used to so I can't play test as much as I like but I wanted to post my list and start tuning it for that tournament later this year. I plan to play tonight and will try and do a write up either later this week or on the weekend. Below is the list:
I don't own any but I do plan to take out the Abrupt Decay for Assassin's Trophy and possibly LotV for Liliana the Last Hope. I will also try post my SB strategy but can't right now. Time to get ready for work.
EDIT: I was unable to go tonight afterall. Hope to get out on Friday so I can write an update.
That is true. I just think Temur Battle Rage does a better job of closing games out against tokens but Echoing Truth does a decent job. I have always been a fan of Echoing Truth. I find that while it may not be a silver bullet answer, it is very versatile. I have used it to bounce problematic enchantments and then forcing them to discard (Blood moon or Worship). I have bounced Anglers and they can't deploy right away because they ate their graveyard. I have used Echoing Truth to send multiple Arclight Phoenixes back to their hand or Prized Amalgam so I can swing for the win. Against GY decks, having their creatures in their hand is often the third safest play for them to be. #1 Exiled; #2 in their deck. The best was bouncing 2x Ethereal Armor on a large Slippery Bogle and then blocking with my larger Death's Shadow to take down their creature.
Many of the linear decks play 4 of and Echoing Truth allows you to reset a lot of the work they have done. It may only buy a turn or two but often that is all that is needed when you have 1 or 2 large creates on board. It does a fairly good job of saving your creatures if needed. Player played an Engineered Explosives for 1 and then sacrificed it. I played Echoing Truth on my DS and then recast them the following turn. Perhaps their are better cards to play but very few times have I been disappointed.
Regarding needing more GY hate. That is fair. I have played with Yixlid Jailer in the past and she has performed ok. but has never been able to close out a GY based deck by herself. I think based on the current meta, Surgical is the way to go. I still have time to pick up an additional two copies since the tournament is in June. Probably need to start trading to get some as I don't think they are going down anytime soon.
I plan to play tonight so hopefully I can perform a write up tomorrow.
@Shaggy - regarding Rancor or Rhonas, I would go with Rancor if I had to choose between the two. Not sure how often you are going to be able to play and then activate on the same turn. I just could not imagine paying three mana and then not getting anything out of it right away. Temur Battle Rage is used to race other decks and setting up three mana, possibly over two turns seems like it would take too much. Rancor allows you to start trampling right away so you can close out the game faster. In addition, if they kill the creature, at least you get it back to make your next treat super imposing. And if they kill the create in response to you putting Rancor on, then Goyf just gets bigger as we now have an enchantment in the GY. I would roll with Ranor.
I look forward to your thoughts.
I will state that this deck strategy does not really fold to anything. It maybe unfavorable by +/- 20% but nothing is really unwinnable. Tokens, while a challenge without red for Temur Battle Rage, I am really not concerned about. Not very many people play that strategy. The other archetypes you named are part of the meta. I have played all of them numerous times and had success. Nothing is a given but understanding the matchup and what you are playing toward helps.
Anyways, like I said, if you could provide your reasoning, it will help promote better discussion.
Thanks.
I have been a long time fan of this version of the deck. I used to have a Death's Shadow list when Deathrite Shaman was still around. I loved that card. Anyways, I live in the Dallas area and there is a Modern Grand Prix this summer. I don't get to play as much as I used to so I can't play test as much as I like but I wanted to post my list and start tuning it for that tournament later this year. I plan to play tonight and will try and do a write up either later this week or on the weekend. Below is the list:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
18 Lands
CREATURES
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
15 Creatures
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Fatal Push
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Travers the Ulvenwald
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dismember
27 Spells
3 Collective Brutality
3 Echoing Truth
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Spellskite
1 Yixlid Jailer
I don't own any but I do plan to take out the Abrupt Decay for Assassin's Trophy and possibly LotV for Liliana the Last Hope. I will also try post my SB strategy but can't right now. Time to get ready for work.
EDIT: I was unable to go tonight afterall. Hope to get out on Friday so I can write an update.