We are in the disadvantageous position of being in black, but being unable to play Necropotence because we are one of the few decks that is going to consistently trigger it's downside. We are also at a disadvantage without green because Sylvan Library is off of the table. Nearly all of our options are only reliable when they interact with existing pieces. My experience remains that Varina ditches so many of her own resources while also playing cards every turn that it has to be addressed or you feel like you are topdecking the whole game.
I don’t disagree. I haven’t found myself top decking overly, but I’m very aware it’s a possibility in any game. I’m just not convinced that Archive is the best answer. Rhystic Study is probably the best we get, followed by Consecrated Sphinx, Nezahal, Primal Tide, maybe Notion Thief or River Kelpie? Not sure.
I'll fully disclose that I run the main tutors in my own build, so maybe that's why I bank on having draw in some capacity, but I feel like you had might as well just assume that you will have some type of draw because, without it, you are probably going to lose with Varina anyway. Not having any draw online, Zombie Infestation in play or even some other card in play that fills its slot, is going to be an extremely difficult position to overcome because she will only ever loot on her own and the Zombie tokens she will generate from doing so are too insignificant to eliminate three players in combat. Between that and playing your own cards on your turns, you are, inevitably, going to run dry. I tend to lean heavily into drawing and, to be honest, I still feel like it's not enough. Undead Augur, especially if you are fortunate enough to combo it with Tombstone Stairwell, is going to help, but I'd still like even more.
Not all cards are going to be useful, and as I only run two permanents that even create a limitless handsize, I tend to assume that I have to discard beyond 7. If you are going to be pitching the worst options anyway during your end phase, might as well make more Zombies out of it.
Fully agree. I don’t run tutors obviously, but regardless there’s always a)something you don’t need or b)something you’d prefer in the graveyard.
I definitely agree regarding draw. You need something whenever you’re casting Varina, so redundancy is important.
The new Undead Augur looks like a great value engine for this deck! Also, I think Cruel Celebrant deserves some consideration for this build, especially if we lean into the whole aristocrat style life drain. I tested it online and it did well enough to garner removal after a couple turns.
I'm beginning to realize that this deck does very well in a casual setting even though Varina is only considered a mid-power commander. In a lot of my games, I usually find myself the archenemy, especially since I play value cards such as Archfiend of Ifnir, The Scarab God, and surprisingly Lazav, The Multifarious. People are starting to catch on to Ifnir's synergy with Varina and have removed him on sight as well. However, in my Varina Reanimator build, Lazav has been a champ due to his synergy with Varina's selective discard.
I'll have Lazav copy a binned Sun Titan before combat to get the trigger, therefore recurring the things I pitched with Varina's ability. My favorite play was swinging in with some zombie tokens made by Scarab God, and then after the block phase, turning Lazav into Vizier of the Scorpion, killing every creature that blocked!
I still struggle with whether I want to commit to zombie tribal as my first deck to build since I sometimes doubt its viability, but I think it's time to pull the trigger. I will start assembling the individual cards and hopefully build it soon.
No worries, I appreciate your feedback and I find it very constructive; so thanks for the help. I essentially abandoned that build I posted and made a more midrange build. I found that STAX does work with Varina but it makes us a target when we restrict the board. | would, however, be interested in testing Varina as a spellslinger deck with Dralnu and Kefnet as her lieutenants.
As far as your midrange build, have you considered Aether Vial and Mutavault? I want to test Aether Vial as it allows us to put a free monster on the board on turn 3. Which is especially nice since we want as many zombies on board when we summon Varina. Mutavault is nice because it's a land that can be a "zombie", especially after a board wipe. Plus I noticed you play Thespian's Stage, so you can have another target for it. I'm curious, why play Thespian?
Like you, I am not interested in a meta that involves infinites, hax combos, and turn 3 wins, so I will avoid that playgroup. However, it would be interesting to build a Varina deck that doesn't instantly fold to decks that may have a fair combo or two.
Even with the weaknesses of STAX/Reanimator, I think I will try to build my Varina around those themes. The link in my post above should work now and show a rough draft of the deck I would like to build.
My main objective is to build resources while enforcing a STAX early game and then slowly build my zombie token army while holding up counters in the midgame. Then in the late-game I want to be maintaining some control while reanimating.
Well, I am quite new to MTG so I don't have a playgroup yet, just playing online at the moment. However, I know that I would prefer to optimize my deck to be as competitive as possible so I can at least try to hang with the higher powered decks. Even if my meta is less competitive, I can always tune my deck down to match it. The way I see it, it's easier to power down your deck to match your local playgroup than it is to power up your deck.
I have experienced the flaws you mentioned about tribal: weak to mass removal and depends on the combat step. Especially Varina decks that play with Archfiend of Ifnir. That combo is amazing when it goes off but I imagine that would make my playgroup target me every game. For example, earlier today I was in a 4 player edh game online against Meren, Niv (Parun) and a third commander I can't remember. I Archfiend of Ifnir and two zombies on board while the Niv commander was on my opponent's board. The Meren player had his commander, a few monsters and over a half dozen tokens that got powered up whenever he played a land. Now, this looks hopeless at first since those are more powerful commanders but I held a Windfall in my hand until I knew I could discard 6, then proceeded to wipe the board. It was glorious.
However, I feel moving away from tribal will make it keep up with the higher tiered decks. I think 'STAX reanimator' is the way to go. My draft is something like this:
Well, I noticed that whenever I play in a creature heavy Zombie Tribal deck, I can typically hold my own against other mid-power or lower commanders. However, I find that most of the zombies do not do enough on their own when they ETB so the deck can feel underpowered if we fall behind on resources, get board-wiped, or if Varina gets removed.
That's why I considered the STAX control, playing only 10 to 15 creatures max. That leaves room for more counters, smothering tithe, mystic remora, ghostly prison, tutors, etc. Varina, makes her own zombies so if we can slow down the opponents while steadily accruing resources. We can bring down Varina later and then create zombies with her abilities.
I'm not sure, still testing and trying to make it work. Some days feel great, others I think I should just build a Yuriko deck instead...
After about a week of playing, I can't tell if I want to play this as a midrange deck or as a STAX control deck... I would like to play more zombies but they don't seem to do much on their own. STAX control, at least lets us control the early game.
Maybe this sounds blasphemous, but zombie tribal seems a bit of a trap?
Have you guys tested Call to the Kindred yet? I am thinking about running plenty of zombie creatures and having the ability to put zombies on board from my deck is great. I may even consider Training Grounds as it not only lessens the cost for our commander's ability, it also makes the cost of several of my creatures' abilities cheaper.
Also, is playing Balthor the Defiled too cheeky, or does it have a place in a black creature heavy deck?
Glad to see Varina getting some more attention! She was the only commander I was sold on building from C18, and I’ve had a blast playing her since.
Much the same here, midrange is my jam, apparently. I’ve been playing this since before I was aware of the term. I like it for being a reasonably versatile strategic archetype while also providing a challenge in that there’s no set path to victory. That’s where the pilot comes in.
I think there’s something there with a dedicated swarm deck under Varina. The big challenge you’ll have is keeping your army around and getting critical mass as early as possible. Part of why I haven’t gone all in on that is that it can be a little slow, and tokens can be hard to replace if/when they get removed. It’s why I’ve included all of the zombie death triggers available, at least it’ll hurt to remove them. That being said, the new token lords do look cool - I think with a balance of tradition buff lords and these guys, there’s something there. It’d probably play more like an aggro midrange build, but it’s totally doable. Feel free to discuss inclusions here if you’d like to - I’m happy to lend a hand coming up with a reasonable list.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General I’m less excited about for this build than others seem to be. Most of that is her CMC. She’d be literally right at the top of the curve for the deck, and I’m not certain she’ll have the impact she’d need to. If I grab a copy, I really like her for my Glissa build. Here’s what I’m tossing up for my build from WAR:
Soul Diviner - I run a few walkers, he draws from Mike’s ability, and he helps with cumulative upkeeps.
God-Eternal Oketra - She’s well costed, strong in combat, and gives straight up bonkers value in her tokens. She’s an auto-include.
Dreadhorde Invasion - Early board presence is great. The lifelink clause might not ever turn on, but being low on the curve makes it a reasonable include.
Lazotep Reaver - A 2-drop that comes with an extra body is decent. Sac fodder for the most part but still worth consideration.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord - He’s got a decent array of abilities - the lifelink is handy and so is the reanimation.
Bolas’s Citadel - this card is obviously nuts. It’ll likely end up being a straight up combo staple, but it could do decent things here. Not 100% sure about it, but worth consideration.
Despark - This is just great value removal. Instant speed, well costed, permanent removal for the biggest threat on board. As a nice flavour note, it can get rid of literally every iteration of Bolas that exists.
Thanks for the insight, I also have considered those cards although I didn't even think about Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord. His reanimation ability does fit well with the theme of the deck, maybe even adding Entomb will ensure we get the recursion we want.
After endless brewing and trying to make Nicol Bolas work in EDH, I grew frustrated and searched other options. I'm glad I did or I wouldn't have found Varina, she is such a dope commander!
After seeing the WAR spoilers I knew I wanted to make some form of Zombie Tribal and I think my first ever paper cards will be bought building a Varina EDH deck, using zombie tokens. I especially like Varina because she is midrange, and after a couple of months of playing Arena, I have realized that midrange is my favorite decktype.
What do you guys think about a zombie token tribal that also runs Gleaming Overseer, Eternal Skylord, Dreadhorde Invasion, Vizier of the Scorpion, and Liliana, Dreadhorde General? I like those three creatures because not only do they create a zombie (army) token as an ETB, they also buff all zombie tokens we control. With all three on the board, all of our zombie tokens have hexproof, menace, flying, and deathtouch; quite potent.
My only problem is trying to fit all the good cards in the 99...
I like Nezahal, Primal Tide the best because it has self-protection which synergizes with Archfiend of Ifnir.
I'm beginning to realize that this deck does very well in a casual setting even though Varina is only considered a mid-power commander. In a lot of my games, I usually find myself the archenemy, especially since I play value cards such as Archfiend of Ifnir, The Scarab God, and surprisingly Lazav, The Multifarious. People are starting to catch on to Ifnir's synergy with Varina and have removed him on sight as well. However, in my Varina Reanimator build, Lazav has been a champ due to his synergy with Varina's selective discard.
I'll have Lazav copy a binned Sun Titan before combat to get the trigger, therefore recurring the things I pitched with Varina's ability. My favorite play was swinging in with some zombie tokens made by Scarab God, and then after the block phase, turning Lazav into Vizier of the Scorpion, killing every creature that blocked!
I still struggle with whether I want to commit to zombie tribal as my first deck to build since I sometimes doubt its viability, but I think it's time to pull the trigger. I will start assembling the individual cards and hopefully build it soon.
As far as your midrange build, have you considered Aether Vial and Mutavault? I want to test Aether Vial as it allows us to put a free monster on the board on turn 3. Which is especially nice since we want as many zombies on board when we summon Varina. Mutavault is nice because it's a land that can be a "zombie", especially after a board wipe. Plus I noticed you play Thespian's Stage, so you can have another target for it. I'm curious, why play Thespian?
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/varina-stax-reanimator/?cb=1556886030
Like you, I am not interested in a meta that involves infinites, hax combos, and turn 3 wins, so I will avoid that playgroup. However, it would be interesting to build a Varina deck that doesn't instantly fold to decks that may have a fair combo or two.
Even with the weaknesses of STAX/Reanimator, I think I will try to build my Varina around those themes. The link in my post above should work now and show a rough draft of the deck I would like to build.
My main objective is to build resources while enforcing a STAX early game and then slowly build my zombie token army while holding up counters in the midgame. Then in the late-game I want to be maintaining some control while reanimating.
I have experienced the flaws you mentioned about tribal: weak to mass removal and depends on the combat step. Especially Varina decks that play with Archfiend of Ifnir. That combo is amazing when it goes off but I imagine that would make my playgroup target me every game. For example, earlier today I was in a 4 player edh game online against Meren, Niv (Parun) and a third commander I can't remember. I Archfiend of Ifnir and two zombies on board while the Niv commander was on my opponent's board. The Meren player had his commander, a few monsters and over a half dozen tokens that got powered up whenever he played a land. Now, this looks hopeless at first since those are more powerful commanders but I held a Windfall in my hand until I knew I could discard 6, then proceeded to wipe the board. It was glorious.
However, I feel moving away from tribal will make it keep up with the higher tiered decks. I think 'STAX reanimator' is the way to go. My draft is something like this:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/varina-stax-reanimator/
I'm not sure about it, maybe need more reanimation?
*EDIT* Fixed the link.
That's why I considered the STAX control, playing only 10 to 15 creatures max. That leaves room for more counters, smothering tithe, mystic remora, ghostly prison, tutors, etc. Varina, makes her own zombies so if we can slow down the opponents while steadily accruing resources. We can bring down Varina later and then create zombies with her abilities.
I'm not sure, still testing and trying to make it work. Some days feel great, others I think I should just build a Yuriko deck instead...
Maybe this sounds blasphemous, but zombie tribal seems a bit of a trap?
Also, is playing Balthor the Defiled too cheeky, or does it have a place in a black creature heavy deck?
Thanks for the insight, I also have considered those cards although I didn't even think about Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord. His reanimation ability does fit well with the theme of the deck, maybe even adding Entomb will ensure we get the recursion we want.
Here is a draft of the list I'm working on, although I need to bring down the price and I'm also unsure on my lands and mana rocks:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-04-19-varina-zombie-tribal/?cb=1556229771
After seeing the WAR spoilers I knew I wanted to make some form of Zombie Tribal and I think my first ever paper cards will be bought building a Varina EDH deck, using zombie tokens. I especially like Varina because she is midrange, and after a couple of months of playing Arena, I have realized that midrange is my favorite decktype.
What do you guys think about a zombie token tribal that also runs Gleaming Overseer, Eternal Skylord, Dreadhorde Invasion, Vizier of the Scorpion, and Liliana, Dreadhorde General? I like those three creatures because not only do they create a zombie (army) token as an ETB, they also buff all zombie tokens we control. With all three on the board, all of our zombie tokens have hexproof, menace, flying, and deathtouch; quite potent.
My only problem is trying to fit all the good cards in the 99...