You might be interested in a little combo that I've found on someone's decklist on tappedout: Phyrexian Altar + Cloudstone Curio + 1 CMC Vampire. In my build I already use Altar as an extender because it let's me cast more 1 CMC Vampires so at least for me adding another artifact might be worth it.
I just forgot that Steelshaper's Gift exists... But still I find it not worth it to run these equipements, so instead of equipement-specific tutor, a more versatile one just for artifacts could be better (besides Enlightened Tutor of course, it's the best we get) since I use Springleaf Drum as a 1 CMC ramp and Phyrexian Altar for combos and as a way to win through the means of storm sacrifice.
EDIT: Maybe Mausoleum Secrets might be good enough to run here since we have so low mana curve?
I look specifically for black cards because want to be as close to mono B deck as possible and use Vampire Nocturnus as a powerful anthem. My logic is that G has Overrun effects as a win-cons so why not use a similar card in B that can also go with our plans since it generates 1/1 token?
So it might be better to run Open the Armory to get additional chance to hit Skullclamp, which draws ton of cards? But besides that I don't think there's an equipement or even aura that might be an additional target for this tutor.
What do you guys think about Cauldron Haze as a means to double the number of nontoken bodies to sacrifice? Am I right that these 1/1s come to the battlefield first and then die due to -1/-1 counter being put AFTER coming to battlefield?
I am planning to transition most of my decks over to MTGNexus shortly but I have been slow in doing so. I just wanted to comment that I managed to do a little testing yesterday and I wanted to say that Yawgmoth was freaking amazing. Getting board control, a sac outlet, and draw all in one effect is really sweet. He throws off combat math entirely and so far, my experience has been all positive for him in this deck. It felt like as soon as I got him, I was in full control of the board moving forward.
I happened to have also gotten Cordial Vampire in play at the same time. It was good with a sac outlet for sure. The game spiraled out of control quickly as my vamps spun up in size while drawing and killing my opponents creatures.
A little noob question here but isn't including too many 4-6 CMC cards too risky with Ad Nauseam or in colors without proper ramp or even time to do it in case of aggresive decks? How do you usually go for Necro/Ad Naus draws?
So we can count Yawgmoth as a sac outlet and a little more complicated Necropotence?
Also I'd love to know how's been Judith, the Scourge Diva performing with some more playtesting. Is she worth including as a pseudo-lord or ping effect?
And last thing - I see you've removed Swords to Plowshares, does it interrupt the aggro plan or are you giving up on having too much reactive cards to focus more on a theme and gameplan?
Hi, have you considered Elvish Herder? It's another way to target creatures and giving Gargos Trample might push a commander damage win sometimes.
Also Regrowth is a cheap way to get cards back from graveyard and... Evolution Charm besides having this effect can also give flying (and force Gargos' fight). And for lands, there's Heart of Yavimaya - it's ETB might hurt a bit but we're in mono green, losing a Forest isn't a big deal here for actual repeatable target effect.
Looks good, however, didn't that change rise your average CMC a little? Also how about mana base? I think it should prioritise a little more B lands like Rugged Prairie for Luxury Suite?
How about Zealous Persecution as a combat trick AND potential boardwipe? It basically encourages alpha strikes and once you use it, your opponents become very hesitant to block.
What do you guys think about cutting Rakish Heir from a list? For me it was just too cluncky and whenever I had a chance to play it I actually did something else so I'm wondering if replacing it with Yahenni, Undying Partisan would be correct move since Yahenni is a very good standalone vampire that can grow big and has built-in free sac outlet.
Also since I tweaked my deck to be a little more mono-black I've added Bolas's Citadel, which with Necropotence works amazing and each of these cards allows me to manipulate my library enough to make Vampire Nocturnus a viable, powerful lord.
Bloodghast synergizes with a few cards which turn him into a vampire bitterblossom. But if we don't draw those cards I think he is usually worse than a 2 drop with flying or better stats. Bloodthrone vampire effectively has the stats of tarmogoyf if we sacrifice the vampires that get blocked, and if we don't get blocked who cares? She can also blow up our vampires with summoning sickness if we need to squeeze in more damage, and she synergizes with aristocrat effects. Still unless we draw an aristocrat effect I would rather have a 1 drop or a 2 drop with evasion.
I kinda don't like impact tremors either since both it and purph are somewhat unreliable. Plus tremors doing half the damage means gruesome fate or throne of the god-pharaoh (both questionable cards) would likely hit just as hard or harder without needing to come down early and stick.
Speaking of lands, has everyone here automatically added silent clearing and sunbaked canyon? I'm finding it hard to quantify the value of the cantrip ability myself.
Gruesome fate might be good at estabilished boards (I just wish it was instant speed), however I think that Impact Tremors dealing 3+ damage to each opponent is worth it. Just lower your expectations and consider it a pure burn effect, just like Vicious Conquistador, which during the course of the game might use his ability also like 2-3 times at most?
Yeah and there's also Vampire of the Dire Moon - another B 1/1.
With these two (and probably few more to come) I'm recently thinking about cutting Stromkirk Noble to get as close to mono-black as possible - do you guys think it's a good idea to take our decks in this direction? My point is, we already want BBB for Necropotence, which takes impact on mana base so why not go all-in with it?
I think we want to run all the vampire 1 drops, including the 2 changelings; they’re so good with Edgar. I think that the vast majority of our lands should produce black mana, but we can still have red and white:
Except Fastlands and Temples these are good calls. I'm not completely sold on the Tainted cycle but it might be good starting point for budget mana base. Also I'd suggest Arid Mesa using Swamp duals and since we prioritize B, then Polluted Delta and Verdant Catacombs could be primary fetches to get - 5 + newest basic fetch might be good enough without breaking a bank too much.
The issue is not that one drops aren't good. It's that even an optimized edgar manabase can't reliably manage R or W on turn 1. Stromkirk noble is a good one drop and so is worth the risk of casting issues for now in my opinion. Before that some 2 drops need to go. For the current list, it would be better to cut tithe drinker, blood seeker, probably stromkirk condemned, and possibly even bloodghast or bloodthrone vampire. Opinions will vary and depend on the decklist but those are my picks for the weakest vampires that most players still run.
Side note, is it absolutely wrong to cut purphoros, god of the forge? (hear me out). He's the best thing imaginable when he works but if we don't draw him at the perfect time under the perfect circumstances he is awkward, slow, and unimpactful. For example, what if we have little or no vampires left to cast when we draw him? What if the game state demands immediate action and he's too slow? What if we are mana-hosed? It can also be awkward to draw multiple noncreatures or high-cmc cards. He is also terrible if countered or removed since we spend the first few turns doing nothing so we have vampires to cast after. Also I've always felt he was lacking if playing fewer than three opponents. Opinions?
You're completely right, I use 1 CMC vamps for bodies and since we produce so many then a little aristocrats strategy finds home here. Changelings I agree are amazing and I'm currently thinking about adding the colorless one. W vampires seem to be a little better since they have or gain flying and evasion is a key.
About 2 drops: Blood Seeker is good casual card and meta call for creature-oriented environments - besides that if your meta is more about control and players use few creatures then sure it gets cut (but I'd still consider one as Sideboard, just in case), Bloodghast is just pure value since it can come back a few times throughout the game just because you play lands so you that's just incidental value. Bloodthrone Vampire I'm strongly against cutting since it's FREE sac outlet which comes with 1/1 token on it's own. Sure Viscera Seer is 1 CMC but we need more effects like this to machine gun opponents in a pinch (or when game's about to end anyway). The rest sure is sub-optimal but recently we've got replacements for these like Cordial Vampire.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - you're NOT wrong, I'm recently thinking about it just like you. That's because Impact Tremors exists - half the cost, half the effect, much lower $$$ price and less damage from Ad Nauseam. The only downside here is that Tremors can be destroyed, while Purphoros can only be exiled or bounced, which is very specific. I just wish there would be vampire like this with maybe BR casting cost.
Yeah and there's also Vampire of the Dire Moon - another B 1/1.
With these two (and probably few more to come) I'm recently thinking about cutting Stromkirk Noble to get as close to mono-black as possible - do you guys think it's a good idea to take our decks in this direction? My point is, we already want BBB for Necropotence, which takes impact on mana base so why not go all-in with it?
You absolutely need more sac outlets in a deck that needs one.
Between lands and other outlets, I typically run 8-11 in my decks that need them (Marchesa, Teysa, Meren), and even that doesn't feel like enough sometimes.
Your decklist looks like a hybrid aggro/aristocrats deck, leaning much more on the aggro side, which just seems like a watered-down version of this deck. I've been thinking about building an Edgar aristocrats deck, but if you're going that direction more heavily, you should dump most of the creatures that are only bodies. Vampires as a tribe are set up well for the strategy, since they have several sac outlet creatures that are pretty decent.
Thanks for feedback, basically this deck won't be as powerful as ISBPathfinder's since I don't own some of the more expensive cards. Also I run so many 1-drops to get many 1/1s on the battlefield and overrun opponents ASAP. Additional Aristocrats subtheme is main win-con but also a way to push some more damage through to close out games or finish off some unreachable enemies (pillowfort, stax, etc.).
What sac outlets that are Vampires would you also recommend here and what might be cut to make room for them?
Hello everyone! I'm quite new here and I'm very eager to hear your opinion about a specific build of Edgar Markov - I'm trying to build low cost, Ad Nauseam aristocrats deck with Goblin Bombardment, Purphoros, God of the Forge or Cruel Celebrant type of effects as a win-con, while Agro would still be a plan B. Do you have any ideas for such a deck? I think that it requires many 1 CMC vamps with 2+ cost effects that generate me many bodies like Martyr of Dusk or mana (Dark Ritual or Culling the Weak) to go off. My biggest question is "How many sac outlets would be enough?"
I think aristocrats vampires can work for sure, but I'd opt for a slightly more controlling version including at least Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos and the white one (forgot the name). Generally with this style of deck you always want a sac outlet in play and people know (or learn) this and will try to target your sac outlets. Based on experience with another aristocrats style deck i'd say 7-9 sac outlets would be needed to consistently have one available. This does depend on the amount of tutors you will run. As there almost no sac outlets that fit well with an agro strategy I’d opt not to play as many one drops. Having 7-9 'dead' cards does mean your other cards need to be more impactful and I'm not sure if one drops can pull this off. But I haven't built an aristocrats Edgar deck yet so if you end up building one I’d love to hear how it goes
Ow and +1 for adding ritual and culling the weak!
Thanks for responce, my current decklist looks like this: https://archidekt.com/decks/94738. Lately, I'm trying to squeeze in some cards from maybeboard like Bolas's Citadel and testing low-cost ramp in form of Spingleaf Drum might speed up the deck even more.
Also I've no idea what to cut to get more sac outlets like Yahenni, Undying Partisan or if Phyrexian Reclamation and sticking to 4 permanent sac outlets (2 of which are creatures) might be enough.
EDIT: Maybe Mausoleum Secrets might be good enough to run here since we have so low mana curve?
I look specifically for black cards because want to be as close to mono B deck as possible and use Vampire Nocturnus as a powerful anthem. My logic is that G has Overrun effects as a win-cons so why not use a similar card in B that can also go with our plans since it generates 1/1 token?
EDIT: Also to get more card draw do you think that Night's Whisper and maybe Costly Plunder might be an option?
A little noob question here but isn't including too many 4-6 CMC cards too risky with Ad Nauseam or in colors without proper ramp or even time to do it in case of aggresive decks? How do you usually go for Necro/Ad Naus draws?
So we can count Yawgmoth as a sac outlet and a little more complicated Necropotence?
Also I'd love to know how's been Judith, the Scourge Diva performing with some more playtesting. Is she worth including as a pseudo-lord or ping effect?
And last thing - I see you've removed Swords to Plowshares, does it interrupt the aggro plan or are you giving up on having too much reactive cards to focus more on a theme and gameplan?
Also Regrowth is a cheap way to get cards back from graveyard and... Evolution Charm besides having this effect can also give flying (and force Gargos' fight). And for lands, there's Heart of Yavimaya - it's ETB might hurt a bit but we're in mono green, losing a Forest isn't a big deal here for actual repeatable target effect.
Also could Scheming Symmetry be a budget replacement for Imperial Seal or should I get something else in that spot?
Also since I tweaked my deck to be a little more mono-black I've added Bolas's Citadel, which with Necropotence works amazing and each of these cards allows me to manipulate my library enough to make Vampire Nocturnus a viable, powerful lord.
Gruesome fate might be good at estabilished boards (I just wish it was instant speed), however I think that Impact Tremors dealing 3+ damage to each opponent is worth it. Just lower your expectations and consider it a pure burn effect, just like Vicious Conquistador, which during the course of the game might use his ability also like 2-3 times at most?
I've added only silent clearing, which is just another copy of Caves of Koilos for me. sunbaked canyon didn't make the cut because it's not B source.
Except Fastlands and Temples these are good calls. I'm not completely sold on the Tainted cycle but it might be good starting point for budget mana base. Also I'd suggest Arid Mesa using Swamp duals and since we prioritize B, then Polluted Delta and Verdant Catacombs could be primary fetches to get - 5 + newest basic fetch might be good enough without breaking a bank too much.
You're completely right, I use 1 CMC vamps for bodies and since we produce so many then a little aristocrats strategy finds home here. Changelings I agree are amazing and I'm currently thinking about adding the colorless one. W vampires seem to be a little better since they have or gain flying and evasion is a key.
About 2 drops: Blood Seeker is good casual card and meta call for creature-oriented environments - besides that if your meta is more about control and players use few creatures then sure it gets cut (but I'd still consider one as Sideboard, just in case), Bloodghast is just pure value since it can come back a few times throughout the game just because you play lands so you that's just incidental value. Bloodthrone Vampire I'm strongly against cutting since it's FREE sac outlet which comes with 1/1 token on it's own. Sure Viscera Seer is 1 CMC but we need more effects like this to machine gun opponents in a pinch (or when game's about to end anyway). The rest sure is sub-optimal but recently we've got replacements for these like Cordial Vampire.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - you're NOT wrong, I'm recently thinking about it just like you. That's because Impact Tremors exists - half the cost, half the effect, much lower $$$ price and less damage from Ad Nauseam. The only downside here is that Tremors can be destroyed, while Purphoros can only be exiled or bounced, which is very specific. I just wish there would be vampire like this with maybe BR casting cost.
Yeah and there's also Vampire of the Dire Moon - another B 1/1.
With these two (and probably few more to come) I'm recently thinking about cutting Stromkirk Noble to get as close to mono-black as possible - do you guys think it's a good idea to take our decks in this direction? My point is, we already want BBB for Necropotence, which takes impact on mana base so why not go all-in with it?
Thanks for feedback, basically this deck won't be as powerful as ISBPathfinder's since I don't own some of the more expensive cards. Also I run so many 1-drops to get many 1/1s on the battlefield and overrun opponents ASAP. Additional Aristocrats subtheme is main win-con but also a way to push some more damage through to close out games or finish off some unreachable enemies (pillowfort, stax, etc.).
What sac outlets that are Vampires would you also recommend here and what might be cut to make room for them?
Thanks for responce, my current decklist looks like this: https://archidekt.com/decks/94738 . Lately, I'm trying to squeeze in some cards from maybeboard like Bolas's Citadel and testing low-cost ramp in form of Spingleaf Drum might speed up the deck even more.
Also I've no idea what to cut to get more sac outlets like Yahenni, Undying Partisan or if Phyrexian Reclamation and sticking to 4 permanent sac outlets (2 of which are creatures) might be enough.