This thread is filled with scrubs and spikes. Spikes, there's other mythics for you, Scrubs, maindeck artifact removal and harden up.
Also, that is one incredibly sexy salad bowl.
I resent this statement. First a lot of people resent mythics like this because they drive up the price of the chase mythics. This is one of the main reasons that the walkers from Rise were so high.
Secondly, dealing with it is not my problem but the whole idea from a flavor standpoint. It just is hard for me to think that walkers of the same power can take control of each other. Sorin I can kind of buy it on but he is also ancient. I still just don't like it.
I don't mind the change to mythic but I hate that they are reprinting this card. I have hated it for as long as it has existed. Frankly speaking I think the ability has no place in the game of magic. Then they had to alter the wording so that possibly in the future you can "control" another player during your turn (like somebody else realized), which is a issue only against control decks.
Ugg, I just hope I don't get one in my box again or I am going to have to burn another one of these things.
While i agree, you dont seem to take my point. I said it was my ''personal speculation''. I didnt list why, so attacking my reasoning for it without knowing it is completely stupid.
Also, backstory is only ever a precedent for such things as Canonical Events, checking who is and isnt alive, and for using little forgotten elements as Checkov's Guns after the fact.
You seem to forget however, that with your Jace example, you give Wizards power to do Ass Pulls, Hes Not Really Dead manevours, and Look! Hes Back!
In theory, Venser wouldnt be around anymore from any logic i can detail. He was a generic NeoWalker, and would be dead due to his lifespan. However, there he is, apparantly. If they can bring Venser back, its not too much of a stretch to believe they would have no problem bringing back Gix or Glissa.
I dont believe the same is true for characters such as Urza or Yawgmoth because they were product defining, and also near Omnipresent beings. They would, even by Wizards own definations, far exceed anything that would be printable. Smaller characters, however, do not seem to fall under this ''dead is dead'' rule, such as Venser's return.
Also, the burden of proof falls on the one who claims something will or will not happen as a fact. When someone states their opinion as a fact, it becomes their burden to prove it. I never did this, i said my ''personal speculation'' was Z. And Z it is, and remains.
Also, i dont except anything about my speculation to happen. I do take into account their is a whole spectrum of possibilities, and im placing a wager on which one i think is more likely. If you had a betting system, it would be no different to gambling. In the end, its simply a case of putting your money where your mouth is.
I have two problems with your statement. One speculation has to have some basis in fact. You cannot merely do away with established cannon because it is convenient for you (you're not wizards after all). Personal speculation or not you have to have a reason. I could say anyone from mtg's history could be coming back without reason but that does not make it speculation it makes it opinion which has no place in a speculation forum. I am not trying to mod or anything but if you state something have a shred of fact to back it up. (Seriously Gix? Where did that come from.)
Secondly, I do not count Venser as a minor character. I know many of the storyline people may disagree with me but just because he is a talking rock does not make him minor. Is he Urza or Yawgie? No, but he is the only person like himself. His spark is, as far as we know, unique. The only other person to have one like his was Rada and hers was basically destroyed. Also Venser spent decades around the time rifts and traveled through time with Karn which could have also had an effect on him not aging. Or countless other things could explain his not dying. However, just because we are seeing him again does not mean that random legends are going to come back especially not as walkers.
Yes you are more than free to gamble on things but let me put it to you this way: If you are going to bet against the Harlem globetrotters you better have a compelling reason.
A) The MIrari had a personality... that why Karn turned it into a golem. He turned the Mirari into Memnarch because he thought it deserved to live after the events of Oddessy. Memnarch also remembers everything from Dominaria.
B) We don't know if the Mirari malfunctioned or not.
C) THere would be no point to saving the Mirari if Memnarch wasn't within. The Mirari serves no purpose now,
Right the Mirari had a personality because it malfunctioned. Karn says he sent out a number of other probes but that is the only one that did everything that it did. However after the violent insanity that the Mirari displayed as Memnarch, going so far as to keep Karn off his own plane, I cannot see any way Karn could justify keeping the thing around. Perhaps it retained some powers after Karn melted it but I cannot see why he would allow that.
What book were you reading? Night's reach wasn't anything like a villain in the book, Toshi betrayed her many times in the story. She paid him back.
Konda was the villain, he stole that which was taken, he started the Kami war and let it continue while he remained safe in his castle.
She's also not a god.
Ok the whole point of the block was the the Morijin of nights reach along with the Kami of the crescent moon convinced the moon folk to convince Konda to steal part of the head kami. Konda did not really know what he was doing they just told him it would grant him fantastic prizes so he did it. Night's reach did that so she could get off the plane as memory serves. Kami on Kamigawa were also by definition gods.
Nope, at the end of the book she starts to regrow. Oona's infused with Lorwyn. She can't really be destroyed, her roots are too deep.
She had power over the plane but I would not go so far as to say she was infused with it. However I will grant you that the ending is rather more ambiguous than I remembered.
Still proves the point.
Later things proved the point when they had to basically retcon the stupid thing.
Still proves my point. Also the Eldrazi storyline isn't over. They will be deafeated like every other plane threating event.
Perhaps not they are trapped there and the walkers don't really have the power to seal them anymore. Could simply be poor Zendikar.
To conclude, they keep villains alive, that's just what they do. Ravnica's a little wonky... but so many poeople in that block could be considered villains that keeping them all alive would be difficult. Instead the big ones were taken care of.
I'm just saying it is not quite so clear cut. They like to leave things open ended so that they keep their options open but this is not to say that villains cannot die now.
* If you look at the trend, From Mirrodin to today, they don't kill the villain, they always just defeat them.
Memnarch, Konda, Szadek, (Skipping time sprial since The time rifts aren't people), Oona, Bolas, the Eldrazi... none of these people were killed, they were all incapacitated in some manner or left to lick thier wounds.
I think your theory is kind of wrong. I am going to put my reasoning in spoilers though for those who do not want to know all these endings.
Memnarch got melted back into the mirari which was just a malfunctioning probe that Karn seemingly fixed. I would call that dead.
Konda was not really the bad guy in Kamigawa. It was the morijin of night's reach who being a god is unkillable but Bolas pretty much had his way with her and took most of her powers so...
Szadek was granted left sort of alive and kicking at the end of Ravnica but I think as soon as the time rifts closed and Ravnica was no longer isolated the ghost quater would cease to exist. Perhaps they talked about this in AoA though. I do really need to read that book.
Almost 100% Oona was killed with moonglove extract.
I don't want to talk about Alara's horribly lame ending that I think boiled down to: "Oh crap I have to finish this novel. Um the kitty beats the dragon with a reflection. Yeah that works."
And the Eldrazi actually won. No licking their wounds there. They are currently destroying Zendikar as far as we know.
An underwhelming card IMO but I don't see why people think that this is the nail in the coffin for Nocturnus. I would think this says that Cemetery Reaper will not be back. Sorry to all the Z lovers out there but it does make sense. That said why, oh why, could we have not gotten a Krovikan Vampire that gave the ability to all vamps rather than this.
/sigh. Mediocre at best with no place in current vampire decks without some major changes. Next card please sir.
Yay cheap Elspeth a month before she rotates. But I do kind of like her alt art. Am I the only one that really wants Tezz's alt art to have him without the lower half of his etherium arm? I like that notion for some reason.
I don't usually go for playmats but some of the black ones especially the vampire one are amazing. I might have to pick one of those up especially because of the Ulgrotha reference.
My takes:
------------------------------------ Ancient Hellkite 4RRR Creature - Dragon
Flying, Haste. 1R: Ancient Hellkite gets +1/+1 until the end of turn.
5/5
If you change it to just good old fashioned fire breathing for R I think you got it
------------------------------------ Captivating Vampire 3B Creature - Vampire
Deathtouch
When Captivating Vampire enters the battlefield, gain control of target creature. Sacrifice the creature when Captivating Vampire leaves play.
1/1
I had been thinking it was going to be more along the lines of Krovikan Vampire or Soul Collector but I like this idea even if it is a little out of color.
------------------------------------ Conundrum Sphinx 4U Creature - Sphinx
Flying 1UT: Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card on the bottom of your library. Draw a card.
2/4
This seems really bad to me.
------------------------------------ Angelic Arbiter 4WW Creature - Angel
Flying, Vigilance WWT: Destroy target attacking creature. You gain life equal to that creature's power.
4/4
Makes for a good card and one that I personally like but the art seems to contradict this for me. I still say pump effect for white creatures.
------------------------------------ Overwhelming Stampede 3GG Instant
Overwhelming Stampede can only be played during combat and only after attackers are declared.
Attacking creatures you control get +X/+0 until the end of turn where X equals the number of attacking creatures you control.
The lich creature with glowing eyes and a flavour reminicent of lilianas curse, no breasts are the trump card in this speculation though.
I saw that and commented in the thread, the fear is there though.
Lilianas a great planeswalker and an example of the power level they all should be at, she's just been printed in the wrong meta
Maybe I'm just hoping MBC has a chance to shine with the upcoming artifact block.
Liliana's abilities are spot on but she is slightly too high costed to really ever be relevant in standard. I would really rather see her at one less colorless and one less loyalty.
On topic this was kind of a waste of an arcana if you ask me. We basically knew all of this information and it does nothing to create more excitement. At least let us see all of the land arts.
And yes they need the books again. I miss them so much.
We don't know, we'll have to wait until after M11 before we start getting information.
I feel like someone should have said this on page one. Seriously.
@Barinellos Even in reality the mind is a funny thing and it is hard to predict how it is going to react. Even if you lobotomize two people in exactly the same way there will be slight differences. Bolas is not omniscient even if he would like to be. Plans can backfire and besides I have no more respect for what used to be one of my favorite characters after a kitty beat him with his damn shadow.
Well I can't really say much about Mirrodin, Pre-mending it was pretty obscure. But the fact is that we don't know what happened to Mirrodin after the mending. It's been repopulated somehow so perhaps it has become a planar nexus for planeswalkers. Who knows.
Tez isn't fleeing anyone. In Test of Metal he turns back to Bolas.
*Again, there's no proof that Tez will be in SOM, Test of metal is a planeswalker novel, not the block novel.
I highly doubt that it has become a hub for reasons that both you and Barinellos have both eluded to but you are right we don't know much about what has happened to the plane since Karn left. We don't even really know that it has been repopulated.
I'll deal with the second point later on
Never said it was. I just created a situation which could easily justify Tezz being on Mirrodin.
As Skibo has already said, Mirrodin wasn't well known. It was obscure and just like all artifical planes, seperated from the rest of the multiverse by a lot more noticable gap. In other words, Karn and Jeska were the only two who knew about Mirrodin except for the returned beings from Mirrodin. Of course, they can't give directions.
Two incredibly simple explanations. They cannot give directions but they can tell their children, grandchildren, ect... about where they were. This then becomes a legend/story that someone from the consortium, who was only told to look for information on magic metal, hears and relays to his/her superiors. The other explanation I don't particularly like but it works: dumb luck. Some walker randomly went there said that's odd and made mention of it in a seedy bar on Ravnica. Yeah it is a huge stretch but I want you to tell me that there have not been far bigger ones that were forced on us.
Then there is the fact that a lot of the Consortium's agents don't even know about planeswalkers or the full extent of what the Consortium was. It's something Tezzeret actually kept secret.
Also, Tezzeret and Bolas's relationship has changed, as Skibo pointed out again.
Ok maybe this is just me but I would be a little pissed at the guy who kept me in a near death state and then offered to rebuild me at the cost of servitude. The first chance I got I would try to ditch him. I seriously doubt that Tezz would react any differently, or anyone else for that matter. He may be forced to return to Bolas for help but that does not mean he has to like it or plan on fulfilling his end of the bargain; he always did seem a little UB to me.
I don't see any reason that she would go back to someone who screwed her over in the past. She seems happy with her power level now too, since she's been super-charged with the veil. If you really wanted to try and incorporate Bolas into her story, there's the fact that he sent Vol to stalk her, and before the book got axed, Bolas was plotting to mug her and take the veil.
Yeah...I'm just going to cut my losses here. I was really reaching to justify the possibility of a new card for Liliana, which is something I really would like. Without more information it is just stumbling around in the dark on this front.
However I do think that it is too easy to write Tezz into the SOM story especially with him showing up on the art for Tinker and his book coming before the block. Signs point to him coming back and what better time than a return to a plane of metal and artifice (or at least one that was). My little story from my first post is as you pointed out filled with holes but I did that in like five minutes on the fly. However, it does work on a basic level. How easy would it be for people who do it for a living?
Except that there were only 7 walkers who worked for the consortium, and we presume MOST of them weren't artificers. Not to mention why THEY knew about Mirrodin. It wasn't just hanging around at a crossroads, it wasn't legendary like Zendikar, there is literally no reason any of them would have knowledge of Mirrodin unless they stumbled across it, in which case, it being an EMPTY plane, they would have shrugged and just left. An empty plane of metal is a boring oddity at best.
True but the consortium was and is not just made of walkers. In fact I'm pretty sure most of it is made up of researchers, hedge mages, and random servants. It makes sense to me that if Tezz was looking for etherium (read the consortium since he was the head) rumors of an all metal plane would have sparked an interest and he would have sent someone there or perhaps even gone himself. Seeing that it was devoid of life with no etherium he left, it was a boring oddity. However if I was running from one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse I would remember that boring oddity that most people don't know about.
Liliana has no reason to help the dragon when he wouldn't help her. She has her own demons to deal with... hehe... demons to deal with.
What's more, Bolas didn't use Liliana, Liliana tried to use Bolas. It was HER plan to manipulate Jace, not Bolas's.
You are totally right here, my bad. However, just change things a little bit; say she goes to him because her demons are hiding from her and Bolas promises to help her find them. Or better yet her debts nullified since her demons are dead she goes to Bolas to have him help her regain her former powers since they were once both true planeswalkers. I'm not really lobbying for her to be in the SOM story; I just want her to have a good card.
I resent this statement. First a lot of people resent mythics like this because they drive up the price of the chase mythics. This is one of the main reasons that the walkers from Rise were so high.
Secondly, dealing with it is not my problem but the whole idea from a flavor standpoint. It just is hard for me to think that walkers of the same power can take control of each other. Sorin I can kind of buy it on but he is also ancient. I still just don't like it.
It is however a sexy salad bowl.
Ugg, I just hope I don't get one in my box again or I am going to have to burn another one of these things.
I have two problems with your statement. One speculation has to have some basis in fact. You cannot merely do away with established cannon because it is convenient for you (you're not wizards after all). Personal speculation or not you have to have a reason. I could say anyone from mtg's history could be coming back without reason but that does not make it speculation it makes it opinion which has no place in a speculation forum. I am not trying to mod or anything but if you state something have a shred of fact to back it up. (Seriously Gix? Where did that come from.)
Secondly, I do not count Venser as a minor character. I know many of the storyline people may disagree with me but just because he is a talking rock does not make him minor. Is he Urza or Yawgie? No, but he is the only person like himself. His spark is, as far as we know, unique. The only other person to have one like his was Rada and hers was basically destroyed. Also Venser spent decades around the time rifts and traveled through time with Karn which could have also had an effect on him not aging. Or countless other things could explain his not dying. However, just because we are seeing him again does not mean that random legends are going to come back especially not as walkers.
Yes you are more than free to gamble on things but let me put it to you this way: If you are going to bet against the Harlem globetrotters you better have a compelling reason.
Kind of odd though that tezz seemingly only gets one new art besides himself when Elspeth gets two other than herself.EDIT: Thirst for knowledge is Tezz's other alt art. Had to edit that to not look really stupid.
Ok the whole point of the block was the the Morijin of nights reach along with the Kami of the crescent moon convinced the moon folk to convince Konda to steal part of the head kami. Konda did not really know what he was doing they just told him it would grant him fantastic prizes so he did it. Night's reach did that so she could get off the plane as memory serves. Kami on Kamigawa were also by definition gods.
I'm just saying it is not quite so clear cut. They like to leave things open ended so that they keep their options open but this is not to say that villains cannot die now.
I think your theory is kind of wrong. I am going to put my reasoning in spoilers though for those who do not want to know all these endings.
Konda was not really the bad guy in Kamigawa. It was the morijin of night's reach who being a god is unkillable but Bolas pretty much had his way with her and took most of her powers so...
Szadek was granted left sort of alive and kicking at the end of Ravnica but I think as soon as the time rifts closed and Ravnica was no longer isolated the ghost quater would cease to exist. Perhaps they talked about this in AoA though. I do really need to read that book.
Almost 100% Oona was killed with moonglove extract.
I don't want to talk about Alara's horribly lame ending that I think boiled down to: "Oh crap I have to finish this novel. Um the kitty beats the dragon with a reflection. Yeah that works."
And the Eldrazi actually won. No licking their wounds there. They are currently destroying Zendikar as far as we know.
/sigh. Mediocre at best with no place in current vampire decks without some major changes. Next card please sir.
I had been thinking it was going to be more along the lines of Krovikan Vampire or Soul Collector but I like this idea even if it is a little out of color.
This seems really bad to me.
Makes for a good card and one that I personally like but the art seems to contradict this for me. I still say pump effect for white creatures.
Have it give trample too and I think you got it.
Liliana's abilities are spot on but she is slightly too high costed to really ever be relevant in standard. I would really rather see her at one less colorless and one less loyalty.
On topic this was kind of a waste of an arcana if you ask me. We basically knew all of this information and it does nothing to create more excitement. At least let us see all of the land arts.
And yes they need the books again. I miss them so much.
Yeah but if we had proof it would not, by definition, be speculation.
I really want to know why you keep saying this like it is a fact. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/409 Still looks pretty desolate to me. Granted creature art does tend to focus on the creature but the place still looks like it is a ruin.
I feel like someone should have said this on page one. Seriously.
@Barinellos Even in reality the mind is a funny thing and it is hard to predict how it is going to react. Even if you lobotomize two people in exactly the same way there will be slight differences. Bolas is not omniscient even if he would like to be. Plans can backfire and besides I have no more respect for what used to be one of my favorite characters after a kitty beat him with his damn shadow.
I highly doubt that it has become a hub for reasons that both you and Barinellos have both eluded to but you are right we don't know much about what has happened to the plane since Karn left. We don't even really know that it has been repopulated.
I'll deal with the second point later on
Never said it was. I just created a situation which could easily justify Tezz being on Mirrodin.
Two incredibly simple explanations. They cannot give directions but they can tell their children, grandchildren, ect... about where they were. This then becomes a legend/story that someone from the consortium, who was only told to look for information on magic metal, hears and relays to his/her superiors. The other explanation I don't particularly like but it works: dumb luck. Some walker randomly went there said that's odd and made mention of it in a seedy bar on Ravnica. Yeah it is a huge stretch but I want you to tell me that there have not been far bigger ones that were forced on us.
Ok maybe this is just me but I would be a little pissed at the guy who kept me in a near death state and then offered to rebuild me at the cost of servitude. The first chance I got I would try to ditch him. I seriously doubt that Tezz would react any differently, or anyone else for that matter. He may be forced to return to Bolas for help but that does not mean he has to like it or plan on fulfilling his end of the bargain; he always did seem a little UB to me.
Yeah...I'm just going to cut my losses here. I was really reaching to justify the possibility of a new card for Liliana, which is something I really would like. Without more information it is just stumbling around in the dark on this front.
However I do think that it is too easy to write Tezz into the SOM story especially with him showing up on the art for Tinker and his book coming before the block. Signs point to him coming back and what better time than a return to a plane of metal and artifice (or at least one that was). My little story from my first post is as you pointed out filled with holes but I did that in like five minutes on the fly. However, it does work on a basic level. How easy would it be for people who do it for a living?
True but the consortium was and is not just made of walkers. In fact I'm pretty sure most of it is made up of researchers, hedge mages, and random servants. It makes sense to me that if Tezz was looking for etherium (read the consortium since he was the head) rumors of an all metal plane would have sparked an interest and he would have sent someone there or perhaps even gone himself. Seeing that it was devoid of life with no etherium he left, it was a boring oddity. However if I was running from one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse I would remember that boring oddity that most people don't know about.
You are totally right here, my bad. However, just change things a little bit; say she goes to him because her demons are hiding from her and Bolas promises to help her find them. Or better yet her debts nullified since her demons are dead she goes to Bolas to have him help her regain her former powers since they were once both true planeswalkers. I'm not really lobbying for her to be in the SOM story; I just want her to have a good card.